Pro-Fueling...new version of Pro-touring with a twist????

[69Myway]

Hey guys...I know the high gas prices are hitting you where it hurts too. I find less and less joy in "joy riding" when I get hit with a $60 bill to top off the tank. I am far more careful on where and how often I drive as I like to have a little jingle in my pocket still when I actually reach my destination.

What I do know, is our Pro-Touring (people still argue over exactly what that means) machines typically have at least the capacity of better MPG due to over drive transmissions and fuel injection along with lazer straight alignments on super tight suspensions and wheels.

However, it can always be better - or shall I say...better engineered from the start.

My current project aks "Super Bad" is a 1976 T/A. This car will be a driver - not a trailer or indoor show machine - and will only have limited participation in racing (Solo II or 1/4 mile) events. Plans are to see ALOT of cruising miles...in the face of rising fuel costs.

With that said, one of my biggest goals along with huge on large brakes (thanks Frank...at Prodigy), performance wheels/tires, VB&P max performance suspension, and fuel injected Pontiac 400 with Bowtie overdrives 700R4...is MPG.

So, we are KEEPING the 2.41 (edited from 2.42 in error) stock rear gears. Yes...you heard that right. Anybody can cram aggressive gears and cam under a G machine and have instant bragging rights...but we are doing it different.

The Challenge:

We took the stock 185 hp Pontiac 400 to our local machine shop. We sat down with a rep from ACCEL DFI systems and the shop builder to create an engine combo that will be able to pull the car down the road at 900 RPM at 45 MPH in over drive and lock up without lugging and chugging and yet get decent performance. We want to see the car solid in the 13s in street trim and push as close to 30 mpg on the highway as possible with more than 16 in town. LOFTY goal. Some of you already achieve this (some of you exaggerate too! :) )

Plans are in the works and the car is 50% done.

I am calling this a Pro-Fueling project because of the heavy emphasis on MPG and efficiency gained through trick machine work, tight EFI tuning, and wicked high gears.

Stay tuned!

Web page of the build.

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/superbad.html

[Takid455]

I ran a 79 t/a w/ a 403 that had 2.41 rears (2.42 is a typo). I got almost 16 highway mpg. unless your tranny has a 3.xx first gear, it will be ok around town , but not auto -x. I think a TH350 has a 2.57 first gear. I recall doing about 50-60mph in first gear. At 100 nph, I would tach 3k (at around 4000 - 4500 rpm the speedo needle touch 0 again) this is with 255/60/15 tires. I think 30 mpg is a tad bit conservrative. 25 maybe a be a more 'reasonable' goal. I got about 10-12 around town and that was on a light foot. depending on your OD ration, I think 3.23 or 3.08 rears would be better. just remeber, a t/a weights about 3800 lbs, not exactly light and you need torque to move it. Best way to achieve low end torque is with an RV type cam and gear reduction.
just some thoughts. good luck and enjoy the build.

[Steve1968LS2]

I would imagine that my car gets at least 25mpg on the highway with it's current set up...

[69Myway]

Thanks for the 2.41/(2) typo.

The 700 trans has a 3.06:1 first gear and .70:1 final reduction.

The machine shop has been pouring over cam profiles, cylinder head confirgurations, and intake manifolds along with the DFI capacities to come up with what will allow that 400 to have enough torque to do the job, and enough hp to still be fun.

Goal is lofty...no doubt. I don't think 25 is a stretch - so 30 is a lofty goal.

At 70 mph it will be pulling about 1,500 RPM with this combo.

[69Myway]

I would imagine that my car gets at least 25mpg on the highway with it's current set up...

That is totally possible.

We get that out of our head/cam LS1 1969 Camaro with a 4L60E and 3.5 gears in the 9" out back. (when we just cruise easy and steady) - but it drops like a rock when you hammer it here and there on and off the interstate or in stop/go traffic.

[MonzaRacer]

I really dont think your going to get the desired effect at 900 rpm as the low rpm aspect of a 400 Pontiac to make real world torque is in the 1300 to 1800 rpm range.
I would say that either the 700R4 or a well built 200/4R would get you in the ball park for some serious mileage gains. I also agree that 30 mpg is a lofty goal but hey ya gotta start somewhere, test then reevaluate.
Now given the heights most PT tires/wheels are runnng, the overdrive, lock up and all i would have placed optimum gears in the 2.93/3.08 range. Strangely enough I mis cammed my first Pontiac 400 build, ie high compression heads and low duration cam, rattled its head off above 3500 but on premium it would pull down a solid 20 mpg cruiseing in a 69 Exceutive (Catalina) 2dr with 2.93 gears and 255/60/15s.
I remember a fella doing something simialr but with a carb and had a then exotic wideband O2 tuning setup.
One big thing that would definately help is go for toque so thing about a stroker crank(455 crank with mains turned down) and make sure your working the tune properly as it can be getting close to optimum(ie goal) mpg and your trashing the engine.
Remember to read the plugs alot and another trick is keep it warm, Pontiacs hate cold engines, one trick would be to look at Evans Cooling Sytems NPG+/NPG-R as a coolant. With a boiling point of 375 with no pressure, better neucleate boiling point/characteristics it will stop a lot of hot spots/ temperature disparity and would allow you a little more tuning leeway.
The guys at Rock & Roll Engineering are good Pontiac gurus, give'em a call for more info.ideas.

[WayneE]

Chris, have you considered some type of forced induction?

When I had a blower on my C5, it regularly returned 27-28mpg, 550rwhp and ran 10s in the 1/4 mile. It was a centrifugal Vortech SQ-Trim blower at only 6.5psi. The bypass valve on the intake side meant that the engine never saw any boost until you really put the spurs to it.

I plan to do some type of unnatural induction on the LT1 in my 1st gen :)

[Nate_ERC]

push as close to 30 mpg on the highway as possible with more than 16 in town. LOFTY goal.

Sounds like you need to trade that TA for a pro touring Civic :poke:

Seriously though I look at this two ways... First, even if it REALY guzzles, the price of gas is usually peanuts compared to the time and money that go into building a car. Second, if you use a much lighter platform (dare I say maybe even without a V8) it will be much easier to have your cake and eat it too.

[69Myway]

Monzaracer makes some great points.

We are running a 700 from Bowtie and there is a bit of "trick" work going into the engine along with some sophisticated tuning on the DFI. More on that later. The idea is to overcome the pre-ignition, etc, and generate as much torque as we can.

70 mph @ 1,500 PRM is not unreasonable - the 900 RPM at 45 is a little tough, but if it does buck or kick there or bog too bad we can always slide it back in D - we'll see.

[Scott Parkhurst]

The guys at Rock & Roll Engineering are good Pontiac gurus, give'em a call for more info.ideas.


Oh boy. You might want to do an Internet search on him first.

...or, just go to Butler Performance. They're simply the best Pontiac guys out there.

[Munster]

With all of the good looks of the pro-touring world and alot of people already wanting the good fuel economy along with power I think pro-fueling could have a good and posative spin on our hobby.

I hope all goes well and alot is learned from your project and more people look in this direction. Imagine SEMA with a big Pro Fueling feel, and then the start of a push towards an open platform of Pro-Fueling or Hot Rod with regular articles covering P.F. cars. If played right I think this will be long lasting with todays fuel prices and not to mention most people honest desire to not blatently harm the enviroment. Manufactures of aftermarket pieces would jump on it especialy if some one else has started the process and determined the road to go. You could think of all kinds of reasons this would go far. Honestly, Best of luck, this is one trend that could only do great things for the Hot Roding comunity. Continuing on from the boost that the manufactures have given with their work here.

[69Myway]

Thanks Munster,

I'd like to see it catch on, and see it as the next natural evolution of the hobby. The basic frame work is already present with EFI, overdrives, and precision technology to make it happen.

I have an opportunity to document much of this build in Pontiac Enthusiast magazine. The first article on the sub frame rebuild comes out in a couple of weeks.

I think Pro Fueling can include not only high MPG fossil fuel burning ground pounding G machines - but also alternative fuel muslce retro-builds. I don't want to see this hobby dry up on the vine because we miss the boat. The funny thing is, the import tuner guys keep doing things to their cars to lower the MPG - while almost anything we do to a old piece of Detroit steel mated with late model tech will increaes it.

[Fuelie Fan]

I don't think I'd be thanking Frank for advising huge brakes. Waste of weight, which currently is your biggest enemy for around town economy. You're not doing any road course racing as you stated. You're tuning your engine for torque, which means you won't have the power to accomplish high speed runs, and if you're babying it you won't be doing that sort of stuff anyway...Big brakes are a complete waste of weight and money. Plus, smaller brakes will allow smaller wheels for more weight savings.

Highway economy is easy. It's engine efficiency and aero load, pure and simple. Rolling resistance is a factor, but i don't think I'd let it drive my tire choice. weight becomes a large factor for city mpg, as does driving style, gear spacing, engine mapping, etc

[69Myway]

I don't think I'd be thanking Frank for advising huge brakes. Waste of weight, which currently is your biggest enemy for around town economy. You're not doing any road course racing as you stated. You're tuning your engine for torque, which means you won't have the power to accomplish high speed runs, and if you're babying it you won't be doing that sort of stuff anyway...Big brakes are a complete waste of weight and money. Plus, smaller brakes will allow smaller wheels for more weight savings.

Highway economy is easy. It's engine efficiency and aero load, pure and simple. Rolling resistance is a factor, but i don't think I'd let it drive my tire choice. weight becomes a large factor for city mpg, as does driving style, gear spacing, engine mapping, etc

Yes...yes...yes...yes! (still like the big brakes though for lots of stopping power - even if only going 45 when you need them - plus they look cool!)

[PonchoJohn]

A Pontiac- excellent!!!
Follow Scott Parkhurst's advice- avoid Bruce Fulper/Rock'N'Roll Engineering at all costs! Go to PerformanceYears.com and check the Better Business Bureau section.

Have you considered the Kauffman D-port heads? The have a heart shaped chamber and angled plugs that really help to promote better combustion.
The is also a canted valve (CV-1) head that is being introduced, but I think it's application is more for racing than efficient torque production.
Here are several Pontiac guys that can help you out:
Ken "Ace" Brewer - Pacific Performance Racing (PPR)
Dave Bischop (sp?)- SD Performance (Canada)
Butler Performance
Kauffman Racing Equipment (KRE)
Roland Racing (CV-1 heads)
Ace from PPR may be able to make some recommendations re: a stroker setup (maybe a 4"-- 428- crank in a 400 size)
Good Luck!

[Tom Welch]

Ditto on the Rock-n-Roll engineering. Stay very far away from them. The Pontiac Street Performance website can provide some good info from people like Jim Lehart and Cliff Ruggles.

[80proZ]

KLR where in Auburndale?I live off Berkley.I'll soon be doing a 455 poncho for my 68 Tempest and would be interrested in what your planing.I was looking at FI and turbos with a 6 speed manual.

[GetMore]

I'm hoping the Accel rep is going to be looking into programming the engine for lean burn. LSx engines have the capability built into the ECU programming, but it isn't allowed in the US, due to emissions, if I understand it correctly.
If you tune it with a wide band sensor you should be able to lean it out at highway speeds and any low-load situation. Just another trick to put up your sleeve.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I've gotten 27mpg is my boss's superbird... 440 six pack with a factory OD 4-speed transmission and 3.54 gears.... gets around 13-14 mpg in the city...

It sounds like you have a nice project going on there man! keep us updated

[bigvegan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiler

The link above has some good tips, but please, for the love of all that's holy, no "pulse and glide" driving.

And stop before you decide you want to be this guy - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20706595/, even though his website http://www.cleanmpg.com has a lot of tips.

But ultimately, isn't the "pro-fueling" quest for mileage from a pro-touring car a little bit like trying to find the most attractive shade of lipstick for a pig?

Given that you can buy a used Civic/Corolla/etc. for a fraction of the price of a lot of engines/paint-jobs/shiny bits on this forum, I'm guessing a 2nd car might be the best option.

Or are we going to see a new strain of "Pro-rice" (or other dumb nickname) , in which we see turbo-ed Honda 4s / RX-7 rotaries / Supra 6s dropped into classic American cars a la Tokyo Drift for improved mileage purposes?

(Seriously, if the phrase "Civic-powered Nova" doesn't make you shudder, there's something wrong.)

[69Myway]

KLR where in Auburndale?I live off Berkley.I'll soon be doing a 455 poncho for my 68 Tempest and would be interrested in what your planing.I was looking at FI and turbos with a 6 speed manual.

I'm off 542 across from the Glen Abbey cemetary (off thornhill). Kevin at APE has the motor. He is also installing a new dyno and ours will be one of the first to enjoy tuning time there. Mark Remell is the EFI guy - I'm sure you have seen his EFI Cutlas at the cruise ins. He has tons of programming experience and is backed up by the folks at accel. This will be the latest generation of system they have for the maximum amount of fine tunining possible.

************

Now - before you guys have too much fun with the idea of a Nova-Civic...etc, that is not the point. Why waste fuel...and blow money for no good reason? Like I said...ANYBODY can stuff a big cam and gears into an old rod - but our is a strategic balance of all the above. The most thought ususally given to making a resto-rod or pro-touring car efficient is usually the intallation of an o/d.

Imagine a future competition where you do all the drag racing, auto crossing, and cruising from event to event...BUT - you are rationed only a certain amount of fuel at each stop. Points awarded for all the above - including making it to each destination on only the alotted amount with a handicap score for those that consume too much. Also - all competitors would have to be V8 cars to keep the turbo civic, etc. from joining in the fun.

[NOT A TA]

So, we are KEEPING the 2.42 stock rear gears. Yes...you heard that right. Anybody can cram aggressive gears and cam under a G machine and have instant bragging rights...but we are doing it different.

I just finished installing a 2.41 10 bolt in my 70 Firebird 400 last week. My buddys and the welding shop guys thought I was nuts building a 10 bolt 2.41 with Moser tapered bearing axles! The 10 bolt weighs less than a 9" or 12 bolt and I'm not gonna be launching the car on slicks with that rear! I've got a 3.73 I use for strip duties and the 2.41 is for road tracks, top speed events, and trips.

Good luck with the build, I'll be watching progress!

[BonzoHansen]

Slice 1000 lbs off the car, its a tank in stock form. Lighten everything you can. Run 'skinny' tires, as in not 275s. There was a fairly long thread in the tech section about MPG and aerodynamics. Lots of info on tips that improve hwy mpg.

[Steve Firebird]

The first thing that I thought of when I saw this tread was something I saw on a car show a while back. They were talking about some of the old original hot rods and how the had a rear end set up the basicly had two gears in it. When you get to the track you unbolt the back swap the gears around and have race gears then before you go home you put it back and have high way gears. If it was just a few bolts it would work our well. here is a link I found.
http://www.halibrand.com/rear_choice.htm

[69Myway]

Cool info guys. Aerodynamics and weight are HUGE in efficiency.

I roughed together a web page and updated the original posting:

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/superbad.html

That will be full of more specifics, part numbers, etc. soon.

[Andrew McBride]

Chris,

I really like where you are going with this project. This is going to be interesting build.

Good luck man!

[69Myway]

Slice 1000 lbs off the car, its a tank in stock form. Lighten everything you can. Run 'skinny' tires, as in not 275s. There was a fairly long thread in the tech section about MPG and aerodynamics. Lots of info on tips that improve hwy mpg.

So far we shaved 90 lbs off the suspension with the front and rear fiberglass spring conversion. The wheels will shave much more when that time comes, and we anticipate substantial shaving with the aluminum heads, intake, headers, etc.

We will also save weight by replacing the heavy seats with later model light versions.

However, we will gain weight with the a/c system.

The bumpers are pigs on this car. I would like to replace the steel behind them with something else - but that is a later thought.

Power windows and locks will be minimal adds.

[70bird]

Have you considered a manual trans? My car runs a T56 with 4:11's and a 25" tire. At 65mph in 6th gear it is taching about 1800 RPM. With a numericaly lower gear, (320-350ish) You could have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. Stock geared LSX combos are knocking down 24mpg, so with the tune you plan to run it seems a given you would be near your goal right off the bat. Just my .02 Mark

[aggressive male]

Now what about stuff you can do for a big block to keep it from using too much fuel while idleing at a red light or in traffic jams. That's where the most fuel is wasted not going anywhere right? Anyone got idea's?

[justanova]

The first thing that I thought of when I saw this tread was something I saw on a car show a while back. They were talking about some of the old original hot rods and how the had a rear end set up the basicly had two gears in it. When you get to the track you unbolt the back swap the gears around and have race gears then before you go home you put it back and have high way gears. If it was just a few bolts it would work our well. here is a link I found.
http://www.halibrand.com/rear_choice.htm

Quick changes are extremely cool, but i think it wouldn't be good in a build like this because they are heavy, (with the steel axle tubes, and this is a fairly heavy car so i would use steel tubes) and you have to turn two sets of gears (the r&p and the quick change gears) so the parasitic losses will be up compared to say a 10 or 12 bolt. but gear changes take about 5 min with a quick change and they are badass

[BonzoHansen]

So far we shaved 90 lbs off the suspension with the front and rear fiberglass spring conversion. The wheels will shave much more when that time comes, and we anticipate substantial shaving with the aluminum heads, intake, headers, etc.

We will also save weight by replacing the heavy seats with later model light versions.

However, we will gain weight with the a/c system.

The bumpers are pigs on this car. I would like to replace the steel behind them with something else - but that is a later thought.

Power windows and locks will be minimal adds.
I figure by switching from the old A6 compressor and the OE condensor to a modern R4 compressor (I'm using a 3rd gen serp setup) and a modern aluminum condensor I'll shave 10-15 pounds off.

The old guys say watch the ounces & the pounds will take care of themselves.

[Roadrage David]

you whant to save fuel and get you closer to your goal get a tr2004r and a 3.08 rear ratio and a http://www.Vari-lift.com/ system.

This sytem in combination with e-heads gives you a lower lift mode of 1.18 rocker ratio!! below 3000 rpm , resulting in more low end torque and 3.5 hp lesser ""internal"" fricktion resulting in less engine and valve train wear and a massife reduction in fuel consumption upto 15 / 20%.
the tr2004r alredy gives you another 20% fuel sayving capasetie.. save your car some weight bij adding some glass fiber stuff ecetera ecetera. and your there . as for a mashine shop C.V.M.S aka Central Virginia Mashine Sirves. they are second to none and wrote the short block preperation in Jim Hands book How to build high performance pontiac engines. il let nobody els build ore toutch my engines but them.
Rock and roll engeneering as said previusly are the biggest conns and cheaters there are and try to get as mutch distance between them as you can get.......ps a 461 stroker is what you whant fore massif amounds of torque in the lower rpm range to maitain low rpm at 60+ miles.....................

[Jim Nilsen]

Higher pressure in the tires has always been a great way to increase mileage and these days you can buy tires that actually require higher pressures or allow it. The Goodyear tires on my Vibe to my surprise when I got it and was going to fill the tires to max pressure were not 35psi like I was expecting but over 40psi. I picked up 2 miles per gallon with 5 more psi consistently and the road feel was was better and the ride was not any more harsh but it was louder when you would come across a road where the seams are uneven and you get the annoying click click click or thump thump thump. Turn up the radio and it all is better.

So compare the tires when you go to buy them to get the highest allowable pressure you can find.

[68Formula]

Higher pressure in the tires has always been a great way to increase mileage and these days you can buy tires that actually require higher pressures or allow it. The Goodyear tires on my Vibe to my surprise when I got it and was going to fill the tires to max pressure were not 35psi like I was expecting but over 40psi. I picked up 2 miles per gallon with 5 more psi consistently and the road feel was was better and the ride was not any more harsh but it was louder when you would come across a road where the seams are uneven and you get the annoying click click click or thump thump thump. Turn up the radio and it all is better.

So compare the tires when you go to buy them to get the highest allowable pressure you can find.

I seem to recall somewhere that in regards to traction, the same tire on a narrow rim requires more pressure then the same tire on a wide rim to maintain correct tire patch and sidewall stiffness.

For example, the allowable rim width for a 245/45R17 is typically 7.5" to 9.0". So on a 7.5" you would want more psi.

If this is true, you could minimize your rolling resistance while at the same time reducing your moment of inertia. It'd be interesting to see some supporting data on this.

[79PonchoUK]

If you want MPGs, concentrate on weight (including/especially rotating mass) more than rear end ratios.

You'll see a big increase in MPG if you shed a few hundred pounds.....then you also have the performance benefits, acceleration, braking, cornering.

Also, i get the same MPGs from my 4 speed '81 2.8i V6 capri as most do from their modern 1.6 toyota.......a large chunk of it is how i drive....not slowing down for corners helps. :lol:.....but much of it is down to the capris tiny weight.

[69Myway]

We are a bit stalled on the project right now. Waiting on the Wilwood front brakes and the owner's cash flow is tight to no EFI system anytime soon. However, the car is assembled, a/c installed, and all ready to roll short of the front brakes and induction system.

As a side note - I officially declare the state of the new manufacturers horse power wars over due to the economic terrorism being played out before our eyes with fuel prices, and the lack of spine in the tree hugger world, et al that have made it their business to make our business of what we burn, how we burn it, and how much we burn it their business.

Now longer "IF", now it is how much of a swing we will see from what they roll out of the factory in terms of cool high powered machines.

The new challenge is all about how far will it go on a tank - so, I think this project hit the mark at the right time. As we move forward I'll have to look into ways to remove other sources of weight from the car too and continue to see out methods and ways to sqeeze every mile possible out of a drop - and still rumble like a trans am should.

[expensivehobby22]

There's also some simple aero tricks you can do to significantly reduce the drag on these older cars. Most of it is stuff that doesn't affect the exterior appearance either.

Sealing the cooling module to the cooling openings is one huge piece of low hanging fruit. Air is lazy. Any air that goes through the cooling openings needs to be guided through the cooling module or it's just adding lift and drag. An added benefit is much improved cooling, which is something I know everyone is interested in. Additionally, once all the air going through the cooling openings is going through the cooling module, you may be able to reduce the size of the cooling openings and still have more than enough cooling air, which is another drag reduction opportunity.

Just thought I'd chime in since I have experience in this area.
-ray

[bnickel]

i've been planning this type of build for a good long time, i think it lends rather easily to the PT build as well, as long as you plan for it in the beginning and not as an afterthought.

my plan and overall goal for my 69 cougar is a 350-400hp 351w that gets 28-30mpg or more on the highway.

i'll start with a long rod 351w using stock bore and stroke with ford 400 rods giving a 1.88 rod ratio, 10.5:1 compression, ford racing x-305 aluminum heads, crane energizer 1.7 ratio roller rockers, smallish hydraulic roller cam with .500 or less lift and short duration to preserve cylinder pressure. i'll use as many internal engine coatings as the budget will allow but piston skirt, piston face and head combustion chamber surfaces are a minimum as are ceramic coatings on the exhaust manifolds/headers. i'd like to do some oil shedding coatings on the crank and rods as well and ceramic coating on the intake too. it will eventually be fuel injected with possibly a commander 950 TBI system but may have to run a carb at first.

trans will be a wide ratio AOD with lockup and stock or very low stall convertor and it will have 9" diff with 3.25 gears and detroit true-trac diff. all lubricants will be synthetic based unless they are not recommended for certain parts.

i have gotten as much as 26mpg in the 69 stang with no OD and iron heads with a carburetor so i think my goal is attainable.

[Declawed69]

Cougars have a little against them as far as the aero department is concerned, the windows being one of them. I'm not convinced oil shedding coatings would make much difference in terms of mileage. I'd just do friction on the skirts, thermal on the piston crowns, chambers and exhaust ports, and ceramic exhaust.

[bnickel]

yeah i'm building the engine the engine as much for durability and longevity as anything so i'm still going to shooting for as many internal coatings as the budget will allow

[formula]

http://www.casualrestorationsinc.com/html_files/Product%20pages/prototype%20bumper.html


There's your rear bumper brace. I really wish somebody'd make a front one. They are indeed pigs.

[MonzaRacer]

I figure a swap to a plastic/alum rad saves weight, Evans cooling NPG-R.
I do agree with adding more air to tires, now when you decide on super long trips you might think about dropping air back if ride is worse.
Now learning to drive for better mileage isnt hard.
I was driving a 78 C10 w/355 L98 roller motor, LT4 HOT roller cam. SR torquer heads w/202-160 valves.
W/ 2.73 gears ,30/9.50/15 tires and a TH350 and running a Holley carb it was arveraging 16 mpg driving in hills and hollers to work(80 miles round trip a day.) this really impressed me, I bet I could eclipse 20 mpg with an od trans and a little more gear.
AND it never changed mileage pulling my car trailer loaded or unloaded.
Now my 77 Monza is gettting a 283, maybe a small turbo, I have an LT1 intake to use, Megasquirt EFI, eithermy TCI th350 and the 3.42 gears(got good mileage with 355 and carb so smaller engine should be more efficient.
Yes I want AC, I am going to try to swap out some steel bumper parts for aluminum.
I am working towards Air Ride on it and I want better handling so I may save for ATS spindles and Marcus from SC&C wants to try to whip up some upper control arms. But the big reason for the spindles is to shorten the steering arms over the now inuse S10 spindles.
I want at least 156 or 17 in wheels and super large brakes for the stopp.AND i am going to use my prototype ABS, AND my prototype evap system(save fuel vapors).
My hope is to have the Flex FI ready to install as soon as the cars is driveable, but hope can be fleeting.
Pay attention to detail and the ideas and theories will either prove out or fail.
Lee Abel
AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

Oh and I wasnt meaning to let rock and Roll do everything BUT they did and do have some good ideas and a few god parts, used thhem before and probably would again but I BUILD MY OWN ENGINES.
Lee

[69Myway]

Update....

It has been a while.

The car is sitting on all four wheels, engine and trans are in. We also wrapped up the killer Vintage A/C install - be looking for the article on that in Pontiac Enthusiast magazine in a few months.

The rear brakes are here...front are still on back order with Wilwood. Hope to have them soon. Wheels ordered from Intro last week. They are going to powder coat the center of them gold to keep the trans am theme going.

We haven't installed the EFI yet. That will be one of the last things we do.

Stay tuned...Oh...and since I posted this I believe gas has gone up about .70 a gallon...man, those high gears outback, overdrive...and high tech...yet mild engine build are really going to pay off!

[1offwizard]

I really can't wait to see the numbers this car makes!

[BLT2DRIVE]

I Drove My Ls7 Belair To Colorado From La Running 78-80 And Got 27.9 27.8 Consistently Filling Up. Driving Around West La I Regularly Get 22-24 Mpg.

[badbu68]

That Belair is BADASS! Very nice work on it.

I am too much of a traditionalist to drop in a modern motor into my chevelle, but it's hard to argue with with both the mpg and power that an ls1/t56 makes.

As to what someone else posted earlier, you'll NEVER see a rotory swaped into a car for MPG or reliability.