edelbrock proflo twin turbo?

[edl406]

I hope I dont get chewed for posting this Q. I looked for a thread with what Im trying to figure out but cant find exactly what I need to know.

:help!:
I have the 3500 proflo efi system on a 406 sbc, 6 speed viper trans. What im trying to find out if the pro flo system capable of a twin turbo setup? I was told that all I had to do is swap to a 2 bar map and tune on it.
I have a whole list of stuff on its way, to be arriving in days, including headers, turbo's, aluminum 2.5 " piping, intercooler, stainless 2.5" downpipe mandrel bent stock, Egt and boost gauge, and a 2 gm bar map sensor.
Probably should have asked this before i ordered everything.

While searching, I did find guys running carbs and turbo's. I didnt even know that was possible. Im assuming that If they can run turbo's then I should be able to. But Can it be done with this EFI system? Any one know or can point me in the right direction?

[camcojb]

didn't think that system was capable of running a two-bar map.

Jody

[Fuelie Nova]

I have had tons of experience on the eldo setup. In my opinion you do not want to use this system for a twin turbo setup, you can cheat it but you will be disappointed. I ran the 3500 for a few years but it has it limitations. You can use your existing manifold, throttle body etc and upgrade to a different box and wiring harness. I switched to the XFI box. Had to convert the pwm IAC to a gm stepper style.
Tg

[edl406]

Here is what I got from edelbrocks online tech.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 7:38 PM
To: EFItech
Subject: 3500 efi turbo question


Will the 3500 efi system handle twin turbo's or do I need to get another engine management system? Im new to turbo's but not to the 3500, I've had mine for several years and still works great.Its currently on a mild cam 406 street motor with a 6 speed,(in an 87s10 ) I still have lots of room to move on the injector pulse width, I think its only about a quarter of its potential right now. I am running an AEM air fuel gauge to be able to monitor the afr. So I know I have some room to grow , just dont know if the running turbo's need any other triggering to meter fuel ratio.
Any way the turbo kit is on its way, Im just looking ahead as to what else I may need.
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks Joe

Joe,

I do have several customers using our Pro-Flo with twin turbots. The only thing you need to do is have enough injector and a boost sensitive
regulator. I personally have tuned a 14psi boost blown car and at the time knew nothing about the boost sensitive regulators and it worked very
well. The regulators are available with a 1 to 1, or 2 to1, or 4 or 8 to 1 ratio. What that does is add 2 or more pounds of fuel for every pound of
boost or like an 8 to1 8 pounds of fuel for every pound of boost.

(And another one, Id sware that it is the same guy)

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:23 PM
To: EFItech
Subject: 2 bar map sensor?


I have the 3500 efi system, Im attempting to go twin turbo's with it. I was told that I need a 2 or 3 bar map sensor. I looked on the edelbrock site, I found a 2 bar under accessories. Now will that work with the 3500 ECM? If so where do i get it at? I dont see an option to buy one on edelbrocks site.
Joe

Joe,

No, we do not have a 2 bar Map sensor that works directly with the Pro-Flo system, but you can purchase an LM-1 to use as a tuning guide
for the Pro-Flo. I personally have tuned a blown with 14 psi of boost system without a 2 bar map sensor and then taken the car to a dyno for
the finite tuning. I was with in twenty HP just in simple street tuning at WOT which is pretty close. The LM-1 is available for about $500. You
can find it on the web by just putting it on any good search engine like Google or Yahoo.

I read over these several times and Im really confused, First he says that He doesnt have the one that I need (their 2 bar is a threaded one, mine is a push on vac hose) then He goes to tell me that I need to buy that LM-1 AFR gauge, after I told him that I have an AEM. After reading this several times I kind of figured he is an idiot or something. Thats why I came to see what you guys thought about it.

[camcojb]

what they're saying is you can make it work, but you'll have no tuning in boost. For example, if you want to run 12 psi of boost you'll need to have the same amount of fuel as for 1 psi, other than the boost referenced regulator adding a few psi of fuel pressure. Timing, same deal. You'll need the max timing cut back at "0" boost/vacuum for whatever you want to run total, as there is no boosted areas for timing on that efi system. So it'll go with whatever table it sees last, which will be right as you go from vacuum to boost.

It's a real bad idea to have a blown engine that cannot tune the fuel or timing in boost. Your fuel and timing needs at 3 psi of boost are completely different than at 12 psi, but you won't be able to adjust for that, you'll have to pick something safe for 12 psi and be too rich and not enough timing for 3 psi. I would not even consider that system for a blown application. You can use most the hardware and go to a real system like FAST, Holley, etc. that can run a blown motor.

Jody

[edl406]

Thank you for the input. That sucks that I cant run the edel stuff. You were saying something about other systems that I can use. Now I really dont want to spend another 2 grand on another efi system so I can run the turbo's. Is there a cheaper fix? If I was to buy a holley or something along those lines do I have to buy their whole system or can I get just what I need, I dont need the intake for sure.
Is there any OEM ecm that i could run, I would have to redo some wires, I know.
What would you do?

[EFI69Cam]

Thank you for the input. That sucks that I cant run the edel stuff. You were saying something about other systems that I can use. Now I really dont want to spend another 2 grand on another efi system so I can run the turbo's. Is there a cheaper fix? If I was to buy a holley or something along those lines do I have to buy their whole system or can I get just what I need, I dont need the intake for sure.
Is there any OEM ecm that i could run, I would have to redo some wires, I know.
What would you do?

Check this system out.

http://www.accel-dfi.com/newproducts/flyers/NPAccelDFI.pdf

[Chad-1stGen]

You don't need a whole new system. You need a different ECU which means new wire harness and idle air control valve.

[edl406]

I found a 90-91 camaro, tpi system by FAST Its used for 500, comes with just the ecm and wiring, the guy says that he ran 2 superchargers on a 383 with it. I tried to see how much it was worth but FAST doesnt show it, I think It might be an older one. Any way he said that it will run up to a 3 bar MAP, thats good for me but should I take the chance on a used one.
I figure that I can use my intake and injectors, sell my Mallory dist, wiring ansd ecm then get a dist for a camaro, and a diff Idle motor.
Sound good?

[camcojb]

I found a 90-91 camaro, tpi system by FAST Its used for 500, comes with just the ecm and wiring, the guy says that he ran 2 superchargers on a 383 with it. I tried to see how much it was worth but FAST doesnt show it, I think It might be an older one. Any way he said that it will run up to a 3 bar MAP, thats good for me but should I take the chance on a used one.
I figure that I can use my intake and injectors, sell my Mallory dist, wiring ansd ecm then get a dist for a camaro, and a diff Idle motor.
Sound good?

I have a "like new" older FAST system, and I wouldn't sell it for $500, that's a very good deal. They were $2K new. Make sure it has the wideband O2 with it and the complete harness.

What size are your injectors?

Jody

[edl406]

Original 27lb I believe. They big enough?

Do the downloads on FAST site work with the older system?

[edl406]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/7d85_1JPG-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/84d7_1JPG-1.jpg

[camcojb]

Original 27lb I believe. They big enough?

Do the downloads on FAST site work with the older system?

not even close unless your hp goal is less than 450 hp or so.

Jody

[Blown353]

Appears to be a bank to bank with wideband box... so that price is a very good deal. Make sure the WB02 sensor is included and functions-- if not they're about $250 new from FAST.

If he had it on a TPI chances are it was set up for a small base 7-pin distributor which you can get anywhere. I believe with that distributor you are limited to 40 degrees of timing in the ECU, so you won't be able to set it up for the most efficient cruise possible (not enough advance for light throttle cruise.)

It will still work FAR better and allow for much more tunability than the Edelbrock Pro-Flo + a FMU. While they can be made to work decently FMU's are far from a good setup.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/7d85_1JPG-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/84d7_1JPG-1.jpg

[edl406]

I got it for 5 bills, it does have the O2 with it. Im going to have to learn to tune another efi system now, It took me forever to learn the edelbrock system. Oh well it sounds like its for the better any way.

Yeah it takes the small cap dist. he tried to sell me his old stock one but Im just going to get a new mallory or msd.

Im still getting stupid responses from edl 's online tech, The last email, I straight out asked him if I could use the 2 bar map sensor with the 3500 efi system, thats all that was in the email.
His response was that I need a wide band o2 sensor and gauge because the 3500 doesnt have a wide band O2.
What?
Now thats fine that I need a wide band O2 and so on, but what about the 2 bar map. That was my third attempt to ask him about the MAP sensor and I have yet to get a straight answer. Its like he was avoiding the question because he didnt know or didnt want to give me the bad news. Im so glad im not going to be running that ecm any more.

Cant wait to get going on it, I got some mandrel bent 2.5" stainless pieces to make the downtube, the EGT and boost gauges came today, a couple of stainless O2 bungs, and 2 bar Map are here. waiting for some more stuff before I get started.
Does the EGT sensor take a different size Bung or do I get an adapter so it fits in an O2 bung?

[edl406]

I found an EGT bung. Ebay, stainless. just gotta convert my mig to weld it now.

Thanks for all the help, Im sure Ill be back for questions soon.

[edl406]

I see lots of traffic here. Ill post some pics soon.
This thing is going to be SWWEEEET!

Quick Q, When running electric fans and an intercooler, are you supposed to run them all the time or with a temp controlled switch.
I bought a dual fan setup and it comes with a temp switch that turns them on at 210 deg.
Which way should it be wired?

[Blown353]

Use the FAST box to control the fans.

Depending on how the box is configured it should have a fan wire dangling from the wire harness. This can be used to switch the ground side of a relay which switches the fan(s) on/off.

[edl406]

Oh. Im still waiting for that stuff to get here. I was looking for more info on the fast ecm, I had troubles finding any where that had much info at all. A couple of links to other forums but thats it. Im pretty sure that im not getting any papers with it, just the ecm, wiring and O2.
Does any one have any links to more info on them?

[camcojb]

Oh. Im still waiting for that stuff to get here. I was looking for more info on the fast ecm, I had troubles finding any where that had much info at all. A couple of links to other forums but thats it. Im pretty sure that im not getting any papers with it, just the ecm, wiring and O2.
Does any one have any links to more info on them?

get me your e-mail, I think I can send you the software for your computer. In it is all the wiring hookups and a pretty good help section that shows what the different tables do.

Jody

[edl406]

Awsome, Thanks, Ill send you a message.

[Air Daddy]

Subscribing to this thread.
edl406
I'm also running the Proflo 3500 and like you am looking at replacing the control system so I can add to the system.
I have talked with the guys at edelbrock in the past and the best person to talk to is Terry Abercrombie <[email protected] ([email protected])>.
I was told the Proflo is very limited but they are coming out with the new Pro-Tuner FUEL INJECTION SYSTEMS that will be a completely expandable.
To late for us though.
Keep us updated on your EFI setup.
I know there are a lot of Proflo guys out there that can really use this info.

[edl406]

Yep thats the guy that I talked to, I think he was going too many directions cause it took 4 emails before He answered my original question about using a 2 bar.
Yeah I heard about the pro tuner also. Have you seen the price of the pro flo systems recently, 2500 bucks, I paid 1900 about 5-6 years ago. Wow....
I ran a tracking # for my turbo stuff, It will be tomorrow.

[edl406]

Looks like I gotta get this IAC adapter in order to use the edelbrock throttle body.
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FS&Product_Code=307022&Category_Code=

Im a little confused, Is any one running a remote IAC, FAST instructions say that I need a 232 dollar remote IAC to run turbos.:hmm:

[camcojb]

Looks like I gotta get this IAC adapter in order to use the edelbrock throttle body.
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FS&Product_Code=307022&Category_Code=

Im a little confused, Is any one running a remote IAC, FAST instructions say that I need a 232 dollar remote IAC to run turbos.:hmm:

you don't need a remote iac unless you're running an individual runner setup with no common plenum. What throttle body do you have? That adaptor is for a monoblade Ford style throttle body, which you could only be using if you're running an elbow and monoblade or sheetmetal type intake. I thought you were using a 4 barrel type Edelbrock tb system.

Jody

[edl406]

Here is the Iac that comes with the pro flo.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IAC-1.jpg
I thought that i had to convert to the gm style.


I have some space issues. OK serious space issues. Turbo's are in the rad support!!!!!!:crying:
Im going to have to think about this one for a while.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Any suggestions?:hmm:

[edl406]

I have decided to mod the headers, cutting off the collectors and welding 90's on each runner then reattaching the collectors. Had to order some mandrel U's, cuttin them in half to get it done.
That should be it. down tube is going to be fun too.
Steering shaft goes through the back header tube, gotta rework that tube also. Ill get it.
Is there any easy way to run turbo drains, I have a cast aluminum oil pan but I dont want to pull the pan to drill and tap(gotta pull the motor). Is there any other place to run the drains?

[edl406]

A little bit of an update. I have almost everything for the build. I got the intercooler installed in the radiator support, I mounted 2 16" fans on the front, Im still wondering whether to go electric or mechanical fan, Im not too impressed with how the fans are blocked by the intercooler side tanks, Ill have to post a pic so you see what I mean. Any way, I almost have the passenger side header tacked up, I have to finish one tube. i ran out of wafer wheels. probably tomorrow ill have the pass header done. Ill post a couple of pics then. Then its on to the dreaded driverside header.

I have what seems to be an issue with the down tube fab work. I bought 2.5 pipe bends, I also bought a v band joint,(both flange halves and a clamp) I tried to mock up one of the flanges with a clamp and it doesnt appear that the turbo's taper where the band pullls it together is the same as the band. The turbo has a squarish flange. Is there a special joint fitting for the v band type turbo's.
Now I think it will tighten but it doesnt appear to fit how it was meant to be. Any suggestions?

[edl406]

Some conversion parts needed to switch to f.a.s.t system.
Not sure what year my harness is but it does have 8 injectors , guessing maybe 92 camaro.
The distributor has to be switched over to small cap gm. Ext coil. I believe the wiring harness will support an hei also.
The injectors do plug in to the camaro harness but im going to need bigger ones, dont think the 27lb edel stock ones are going to work. Good for now though.
TPS needs rewired or changed. ebay has this stuff to.
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FS&Product_Code=307005&Category_Code=THPSNSR

IAC housing adapter, uses stock Gm IAC, ebays $60.
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FS&Product_Code=307022&Category_Code=IACMTR

I have to get this also because I dont have the plugs. or use my msd old style coil if it will work.
http://tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/6845

The edelbrock O2 will not work and the map sensor will not work(for boost).
I got a 2 bar on ebay for a good price with the correct plug.
Im still researching the O2 sensor for the fast system. Looking for a cheaper route, Ill get back to that.

[edl406]

expensive O2 solution? I emailed fast and am currently awaiting an answer. If I dont hear anything in a couple of days, Im calling them.
I found the info that I need on here.
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/103_105/products_id/352

"A special note for FAST customers. apparently FAST chooses to LOCK your unit to an individual calibration resistor value. These sensors have factory calibration resistors which vary from sensor to sensor based on production tolerances. To allow your unit to accommodate all sensors you need to call FAST and tell them you want the option file that lets you use any O2 sensor. If you have any problems uploading the option into the FAST box call Tech Support (ask for Lance if the support person is not able to assist you) at FAST and they should be able to walk you through the process in a few minutes. There may be a fee for this option file but even with the fee, the ...."
like 25 bucks he said.

I bought a bosch sensor for an 04 honda accord, same plug 5 wire sensor, I just have to get the option file to run it. $68 for it.

update: Still fitting the headers. passenger side is done. driver side, getting there. my collector is too low,gotta fix that today. As soon as I can Ill post pics. looks awsome so far.
304 ss sucks to cut with wafer wheels.:injured:

[Blown353]

expensive O2 solution? I emailed fast and am currently awaiting an answer. If I dont hear anything in a couple of days, Im calling them.
I found the info that I need on here.
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/103_105/products_id/352

"A special note for FAST customers. apparently FAST chooses to LOCK your unit to an individual calibration resistor value. These sensors have factory calibration resistors which vary from sensor to sensor based on production tolerances. To allow your unit to accommodate all sensors you need to call FAST and tell them you want the option file that lets you use any O2 sensor. If you have any problems uploading the option into the FAST box call Tech Support (ask for Lance if the support person is not able to assist you) at FAST and they should be able to walk you through the process in a few minutes. There may be a fee for this option file but even with the fee, the ...."
like 25 bucks he said.

I bought a bosch sensor for an 04 honda accord, same plug 5 wire sensor, I just have to get the option file to run it. $68 for it.

update: Still fitting the headers. passenger side is done. driver side, getting there. my collector is too low,gotta fix that today. As soon as I can Ill post pics. looks awsome so far.
304 ss sucks to cut with wafer wheels.:injured:

Awesome! I did some digging and that post is 100% correct. There is a universal cal file available from FAST for about $15 that will let you use any L1H1-compatible sensor with the FAST box. You can get an over the counter genuine NTK L1H1 for about $150.

Call FAST on monday and have them send you the cal file and update the ECU, then go buy the proper L1H1 sensor.

[edl406]

"The universal O2 option file will not allow you to use any O2 sensor, but it will allow you to use an NTK L1H1 wideband O2 sensor without calibrating your ECU for that particular sensor based on your serial #. We can E-mail you the option file or mail it to you on a CD. We will need the 4 digit serial # from your ECU to prepare the file for you. The part # for this file is 308026. The cost is 15.89 + shipping for a CD or 15.89 for an E-mailed file."
Thank You
David Page
FAST Tech / R&D Department

We are currently emailing back and forth about the use of a honda sensor, honda part # 36531-P07-003, Bosch # 13246, and possibly NGK 24300. all are supposed to be the same sensor. I know for a fact that the bosch sensor says NTK L1H1 on it. The best price I can get on that is $280, still better than fast's $446. even with the $16 its still a savings. O'l david seems to think that I cant use a bosch sensor, little does he know that bosch is packing a NTK L1H1 in their 13246 box:ssst:.
The honda sensor was used in honda civics VX 1.5litre FI-D15Z1, in the V-tec OHC and DOHC from 1992 to 1995. they were also used in 1.6 V-tec's in newer models.
I have a Napa # of ech-os791, possibly walker# 250-25001. Not verified though.

[DeltaT]

Looking good!

Jim

[edl406]

A couple of pics.
Intercooler mounted, It just fits in the rad support with the stock 4.3 radiator and shroud. I had to cut a little to get the air charge tubes to the intercooler in the sides but thats to be expected.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos2002-1.jpg
Rt side header and turbo, needs welded up , just tacked . gotta finish the downtube also.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos2001-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos3001-1.jpg
I started welding up the driverside, so I dont currentlly have a good pic of it on the truck.
Its cold here, no heat in the garage so progress is a little slow right now.

[edl406]

Got the driver side header done today. I can see why a custom set of headers cost so much now. This is 304 stainless mig welded with 309 and a tri-mix gas. welds much like steel but 304 likes to be preheated a little to get a nice looking weld.
This is the magic header, It still allows for the stock steering shaft and I can get a spark plug socket on every spark plug too! The front tube had to be tight to the head to allow for alternator clearance, On my s10 I had to run a short waterpump and put the alt. on the driverside.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos4002-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos4001-1.jpg
All I have to do now is bolt it on and make a bracket to support some of the weight of the turbo. I think Im going to use the front TB bolts for each side's support.

Here are the essentials for the edelbrock to F.A.S.T. conversion.
A TPS and a IAC adapter and IAC motor. Distributor also but thats a gimmie.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos4003-1.jpg

[edl406]

little help here. I know this is going to sound stupid, but not to me. Do I run 2 boost controllers? for now I want to use the cheap manual one, later maybe get something good. the ones on the bay have 2 pieces, 1 is an adjuster the other thing looks like a T, but it appears to be directional.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R-Turbo-Boost-Controller-Manual-EVO-3000GT-VR4-ECLIPSE_W0QQitemZ370024806264QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem370024806264
I know its cheap, but my wallet is hurting right now. I just wan tto get it back on the road for spring.
I am running 2 bov's , the wastegates are internal. And where do all of the vacuum lines go. This is a bit confusing for me. Any help would be great.

[camcojb]

you've got mail.

Jody

[edl406]

I got it, thanks!

I was checking some things out, I installed the fast harness, and it is setup for both Hei systems, coil on dist and external. Since I have the external distrib. I had to use an adapter that came on the harness to go from large plug to small plug. Also I checked to see if I can use the MSD old style coil, It works perfectly, I just cut off the ECT sensor plug from the edel harness and plugged it in to the distributor and connected it to the pos and neg of the coil. And you get spark. No need to convert to the newer 92 coil.
So far no suprises, everything seems to moving right along. I ordered some more stuff last night so, I think Im all done ordering stuff for a good while.
Gotta finish up the passenger header and get the down tubes done.


Are there any definite rules when I comes to where to weld egt and O2 bungs? Im running 2 egt's, 1 aem afr gauge, and the wide band O2 for the fast system.

[matty b]

egts go in the header collectors and the o2's go in the down pipes about a foot or two back.
Also I would put both o2s on the same downpipe so that when you are tuning you will be seeing what the computer is seeing so to speak unless you are gonna be watching AFR through the FAST dashboard on your laptop. In that case its not that big of a deal.

[edl406]

awww man , I gotta take the driver header off to have the bung welded in. Oh well. Thanks for the info Ill get right on that.

Well guys, the TPS will N O T work. The recommended tps with the piggy tail not only wont fit cause of the fuel rail but the edel takes a smaller blade turny thing. No way will it work so dont bother buying one. Im going to attempt to use the edel tps, It should work, we'll see.

The Iac works great, well almost. you have to get allen mounting bolts because a wrench or socket wont fit unless you grind the sides down. Or I guess you could grind on the valve adapter.

[edl406]

Got the passenger side header finished up today, I have the carb hat fabed up and ready to be dropped off at the aluminum welder. egt and O2 bungs in, down pipes top half done, gottta jack up the truck some more to finish. I think Im going to get header wrap to wrap the headers and down pipes, its all so tight in there, I dont want a fire.

I spent a couple of hours on the TPS sensor.
Here is what I came up with. You cant use the sensor with the piggy tail at all, It not only will not fit but the turny thing is different and the bolt pattern is narrower. The camaro one wont work cause it has a metal arm that rides on a pin of the throttle shaft. The one that I used is a GM round one, it takes the triangular shaped plug terminals, the bolt holes line up. the mods consist of taking the edel tb shaft and welding it up to accept the D shaped sensor shaft. It had to be installed with the plug straight up on the TB. The plug had to be rewired cause the fast pin #'s arent in the same configuration as the GM one. I know this for a fact cause I disected the camaro one and a gm one that im using.
Dont even attempt to use the edel tps, the readings are out in left field, nothing like any sensor that I have ever tested. I think it is a magneta merelli only, especially since it has the name stamped on it.
There is hope for the GM one that I have on there now. Im not going to say for sure that its a 100% go, but it is the only one that I have found that even comes close to what I need.
Oh this sensor that im using is a 3.4 grand am sensor. Ill post more as I am more positive this is the route to go.

[edl406]

here are some pics, stuffs only got a couple of bolts in them for moch up.

The tps that Im trying to use. I forgot to mention that I had to grind a little off of the bottom to clear the fuel rail. We'll see if it works, I have my fingers crossed.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos5003-1.jpg

under hood shot
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos5006-1.jpg

drivers side
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos5001-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos5005-1.jpg

passenger side
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos5002-1.jpg

oil feed T, still have to installl my gauge.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/turbos5004-1.jpg

:6gears: and dont forget the pshhht!

[edl406]

Since there seem to be a few edel, pro flo guys watching the progress, i would like to comment on the edel distributor conversion. Its crap, total crap, crap, crappidy crap crap. If you have any problems with poping up the tb under a load, hesitation, missing, etc., pull it out and throw it in the trash can. I spent hours upon hours trying to figure that one out. Go buy the mallory distributor and you'll thank me! This is the exact one that I ran, I assure you that it works perfect with the edel stuff.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MAA%2D6148201&N=700+400249+4294908216+115&autoview=sku

[Air Daddy]

I could not agree more. Good upgrade.
I had a little nightmare (6 months) with my Mallory distributor however. Everyone was pointing the finger at one another Mallory, Painless and Edelbrock.
The distributor logged more miles with UPS than my truck will ever see. In the end it was an over confident tech at Mallory that keep missing the defective Hall effect sensors.

[edl406]

Got pretty much everything mocked up so I started the dissassembly , so I can get it all put together correctly.
The oil drains are questionable, Im just going to go with it and see what happens. the turbo's arent quite high enough to drain into the valve covers and have a good slope,they are kind of straight across now. They would be lower if I welded a bung to the side of it. I bought , I think they are called bulkheads, to put in the v covers. the inside nut of the fitting hits on my alum rockers so I had to drill into the front of the v covers. I dont know we'll see what happens.

I got the headers wrapped today, I think Im going to paint the turbo housings , they are rusting a little already.
Its supposed to be 60 tomorrow so Im hoping to get er all put together then.

I have to get my file from fast still, i have been dragging my feet.
Here is the phone # to call to get it. 901-795-2400 ask for Matt Maxwell or Hadley Owens. The file is a 308026 O2 sensor file, they need you eamil address, credit card info, and serial #. cost is $15.89
for emailed file.

[edl406]

I got the fast file. Still trying to fix my laptop.
Im about 90% done with the truck. a couple of little things left.
I was wondering if I did this correct, I ran a vac hose from the boost control to a T in the fuel psi regulator line, i took the other side of the controller to a T and split that to both turbo's.
I took the Map hose, put 2 T's in the line, one will go to the boost gauge and the other will go the BOV's (which would be T'd to supply 2 bov's)
Is this the way it is supposed to be done?
Im going to post some new pics In a few min.

[camcojb]

I got the fast file. Still trying to fix my laptop.
Im about 90% done with the truck. a couple of little things left.
I was wondering if I did this correct, I ran a vac hose from the boost control to a T in the fuel psi regulator line, i took the other side of the controller to a T and split that to both turbo's.
I took the Map hose, put 2 T's in the line, one will go to the boost gauge and the other will go the BOV's (which would be T'd to supply 2 bov's)
Is this the way it is supposed to be done?
Im going to post some new pics In a few min.

The map sensor needs it's own line, with nothing else tee'd into it. Also, keep it as short as possible so it reacts quickly to changes in vacuum/boost.

On the boost controller it just needs a vacuum reference line, usually from the intake itself. Should be okay tee'd in with the regulator reference, as long as the line is hooked to manifold vacuum.

Jody

[edl406]

Oh Ill take that T out and run a straight shot to the map. Im going to have to find another place for the bov and boost gauge. There arent too many choices on the edelbrock setup. I have one port for the map, one port for the fuel psi reg, a vac line for the brake booster and a pcv line.
You know I was wondering, whats going to happen to my power brakes since Im not going to be getting as much if any vacuum?

Im thinking about taking the tb off and making a couple of ports for the bov and gauge.

[edl406]

Here are some updated pics.
the dist, is out cause I want to prime the turbo oil syst. with a drill and Im having problems with the oil sending unit threads. the down tubes arent finished, they need the lower half done and wrapped, I just got my X pipe in yesterday, so Ill be getting that done real soon. the gauges are all in, I decided on removing the center vent to make room for the extra gauges. im still unsure of electric or mechanical fan so they are both on the truck, the electric fans just arent all wired up.
I still have come vac. lines issue to work out too.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos006-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos007-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos003-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos009-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos001-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos010-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos004-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos005-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/updateturbos012-1.jpg

[edl406]

.... no injector pulse???. I have power to all injectors but no ground pulse. I do have spark though. I havent hooked my laptop up to the ecm yet so I dont really know whats in there. I just now got the laptop running and Im going to load the fast program. ill know more tomorrow. I took the truck to work to finish up the exhaust and a couple of other things. I have the downtubes all tacked up, just need finish welded.

[edl406]

no injector pulse????????? I have pwr, no ground pulse. I'll know a little more tomorrow. I just finished up fixing the laptop, so ill be able to hook it up tomorrow and see if there is something set wrong. Im not going to be happy if its an internal hardware issue in the ecm. Crossing my fingers.

[edl406]

This site does some funny stuff, now I posted that and it didnt show up for like 20 min, then I attempted to repost it and it shows up. sorry for the copy.

[edl406]

I got it to start, the tps was reading wot. I ended up changing it to the edel tps for now. I think I may have wired the gm one wrong , but I didnt realize it till after I remodified the throttle shaft for the edel tps.
I, still having an issue, It runs of a few seconds and then shuts down, I tried to feather the throttle and see if I can keep it running and still shuts off. Im really confused when It comes down to setting up the ecm perimeters. I m going to have to figure that one out.

Camcojb, Im using that file that you sent me, I changed the displacement to 406 and injector to 27lb. since Im running the hei ext coil I set the dist at 7 deg btdc with the one wire disconnected like the instruction says,(I modified the harness so I can unplug just that wire) now do I have to go into that file you sent me and change it also, I think it was set at 50 something deg, does that go to 7 deg or is that spot where you adjust it?

[edl406]

I figured it out. just needed some tweaking.
It appears that..... The edel tps sensor will work just fine, It will idle and accept throttle just fine, smooth sweep but it has a narrow range and will have to be compensated during tuning. wire it in order from black ground then across the plug.
Also after installing the fast option file for the O2, the $80 honda sensor works and appears to read really close to the AEM afr gauge. I dont have the part # right now but its for a 93 civic with a v-tec. Ill post that up here later.
so far the only issue that I have yet to fix is an exhaust leak, and Im waiting for some more silicones to finish my plumbing.
The lack of vac ports on the edel was solved by drilling and tapping 3 fittings into the TB. one just to the left of the large front port and the other two were drilled into the passenger side of the tb where the IAC bolts on. the rear pass side tb bolt is a little tight to tighten but do-able. Soon as I get it back home Ill post up some more pics of the progress.

[camcojb]

congrats on the progress. Sounds like you're on the fun stuff now, the tuning.

Jody

[edl406]

Well I had an exhaust leak on both sides, I pulled the headers, both header flange plates are warped. I never thought to check them before installing them. Chock one more up to ebay. I have to see if I can have them milled down to straighten them out then we'll give it another go.
A word to guys that are considering an ebay kit headers. they are large port and if your not running large port heads then your going to have to weld up the flange openings to accept the square port gaskets for square port heads. They may seal for a while if you dont do this, there is only about 1/8 inch surface to surface contact on the bottom of the port openings. either you weld on the head to make more surface or adapt the headers to square port by welding up the ports and gasket match them.

[edl406]

O2 sensor info that was used with the fast option file.

NEW NTK OEM OXYGEN SENSOR 5 WIRE 1992-2000 HONDA
36531-P07-003 honda part #
1992-95 honda civic VX L4 1.5L (D15Z1 engine code) front 02
It also fits several other honda's too.
It is listed as other replacement honda part #'s also, 36531-PHM-A02 / 36531-RCA-A01 / 36531-RCA-A02 / 36531-RDM-A01 / 36531-RDV-004
$79.95
ebay seller http://stores.ebay.com/GLOBAL-AUTOMOTIVE
It comes in a plain white box, no papers of any sort just the sensor but it works just fine.

[edl406]

Oil pressure problem. when I first start it the pressure is maybe 30 or so, after it warms up Im showing maybe 10 at an idle and 20 reved up, Now Im not currently running restricters for the turbo's and the gauge is t'd into the back of the engine along with the turbo oil feeds.
Why so little oil press. Is it definetly because of no restricters and Am I only getting 10 psi to the bearings?
If I was to run restricters in the oil lines what size and how would I go about doing that since I have those funny flare ends.

[camcojb]

Oil pressure problem. when I first start it the pressure is maybe 30 or so, after it warms up Im showing maybe 10 at an idle and 20 reved up, Now Im not currently running restricters for the turbo's and the gauge is t'd into the back of the engine along with the turbo oil feeds.
Why so little oil press. Is it definetly because of no restricters and Am I only getting 10 psi to the bearings?
If I was to run restricters in the oil lines what size and how would I go about doing that since I have those funny flare ends.

I doubt it's the turbo lines causing the pressure issue. First thing I would do is verify the oil pressure with another gauge, preferably a mechanical one.

Jody

[edl406]

IAC help. It doesnt appear to be doing anything. I have to use a screwdriver to adjust the idle up when its cold and adjust it down when it warms up. If I look at the iac perimeters while the truck is running, the flashy circle and line are no where near the graph line that is set as the perimeter. It is like that on all of the sections for the IAC idle adjustment stuff. If I click and drag the settings , nothing happens. its like the IAc isnt enabled or something. Any Ideas?
The IaC is new, I just got it when I did the build. Im going to see if I can get another one under warranty.
Does anyone know what each of the 4 wires do on the IAC, Its the square 4 prong gm, camaro screw in IAC. FAST system.

[ledfoot]

Thanks for the post about the Edelbrock distributor! I have a Pro-Flow on my wife's crate 302 and it has been dyno-tuned to high hell with no improvement on the low-speed hesitation/miss/popping.

I don't want to hijack your thread here but are those the problems you were having, and the Mallory solved them?

-Jeff

[edl406]

Mine acted up at higher engine speeds under more torque. Like if I was to rev it up and dump the clutch, the poping would be when i mashed the pedal to the floor after the clutch dumping. no amount of tuning would fix it.
It actually sounds like you might have a (wet) fouled spark plug if its at lower rpm's. If Its never goes away then you have something else wrong. You know how much fun that efi is to tune. You might have to adjust the spark or fuel at that part of the throttle. If your running the conversion, I would definetly get the mallory though. there is no sense fighting with the efi when you know that the conversion has caused issues for others. but thats up to you.

If you decide to get one let me know, I havent decided on what Im doing with my edel stuff but most likely ill be ebaying all of it minus the intake.

[edl406]

Still tuning.
The edel tps sensor is working out just fine.
Any one know what the egt's should max out at. I think the gauge I have turns red at 1400 deg, it has gone up to 1200 before. is that normal?
still having a little hard starts and cant seem to figure out how the Iac works. When it warms up I can control the idle with the settings but when the engine is cold I cant adjust it , doesnt seem to do anything.

The oil system seems to need more of something. I believe im getting the volume to the turbo's but not more than 15psi at an idle. 35-40 reved. I checked it with a manual gauge. I ran one line out above the oil filter and the other out from the back of the manifold, with a gauge there. good pressure when its cold 50 or so, drops around 15-20 around 200 degrees. Im running 10w 40 royal purple synthetic. I thought about going to 20w50 to try to get the pressure up. I never had a pressure problem before the turbo's were installed. granted that at an idle i was only running around 30 psi at an idle, I wouldnt think that the pressure should have dropped that much with the turbos. It doesnt have the high vol pump in it, my engine builder talked me out of it but that was before the turbos were considered.
still runing the edel injectors, they are ok so far, not getting into boost yet, on a hard pull they are getting close to maxing out. Even sitting still reving it hard im pulling around 22lb. thats staying pretty rich too, in the 12's so I maybe could cut some of that back but for now I want to try to stay in the 12 to 12.5 area till I get the hang of tuning.
65lb injectors are in the works.

I blew the bonnet/ hat gasket out yesterday, didnt figure it out till after I got done playing around. Im going to try a paper carb one and see if it holds up.
Alternator is acting up, the header heats it up and it quits charging, Im looking at a smaller one and a heat shield for it. I need to rewrap the headers, long story on them, but I need to get them wrapped up to cut down the heat under the hood.

[edl406]

couple of new ones
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/updateturbos2002-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/updateturbos2001-1.jpg

anyone have any 65lb injectors for sale?

[viper11]

I used gasket sealer on my bonnet gasket, I glued it to the carb hat only so it stays in place

Don't you love the new problems heat brings :(, my distributor signal dissapears when my turbo's heat it up
jason

[edl406]

Short water pump alternator and bracket.
I got the alt on ebay its a mini 60a, I had to do some working to the serp pulley to get it to fit cause it had a v pulley on it when I got it.
The Idler is the tensioner.
Im hoping that this is going to fix my charging issue.
65# injectors are on the way. And I need a correct length serp belt.

Packin it all in there a little tighter......
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/buick2013-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/buick2012-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/buick2007-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/buick2009-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/buick2008-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/buick2010-1.jpg

[edl406]

My fuel line doesnt fit on anymore, I have a fitting coming.
I decided on 55lb injectors, I got a better deal.
Im tidying up a little under the hood right now , waiting for my injectors , which should be here today.

If any one is interested, Im selling my old pro flo stuff. What I have is, the wiring harness( a couple of plugs cut off but labled and some loom missing), all of the literature, the computer , a couple of eproms, one is for 1 up from stock and the other is for a lopey one, I can get the info on the cams if need be. Also Is the Mallory distributor, which some one has asked about, the ignition amplifier, the hand held programmer, the 27 lb injectors, and the IAC valve. This would be an excellent upgrade for some one that has a MPFI intake and wants to tune it.Just need to find out how to use the ford IAC on a gm intake.
PM me if you are interested, I would like to sell it all at one time so someone doesnt have to piece it together. If you buy everything but the dist, Ill throw in the old conversion dist that I have to get U up and running.

[edl406]

injectors came today, as well as my fuel fitting. Its running again. The injectors are really noisy (ticking) Is that normal for Multec's?
http://www.racetronix.com/17113841FM.html
I had to cut my fuel settings way back, which was to be expected. It still needs some tuning. In town cruising 25mph the egt goes up and it seems to run funny till I rev it a little , I think its still too much fuel. Tuning really sucks when its not going so easy.

A much needed fire extinguisher is on its way, better safe than sorry.
:candle:

The week ends plans are to pull the headers to heat wrap them finally, do a couple odds and ends, install the inner fenders, change the oil, clean it up a little and finish the exhaust from the mufflers back. Then put more Gas in it so I can do some more tuning.
:6gears:

When I get everything where and how I want It Ill take more detailed photo's and post them up.

Oh by the way If there is anyone considering the GLOW SHIFT guages that Im using, http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/ Dont . they are pretty but not very accurate. Im probably going to pull them next winter and get some autometers.

Is there anyone that sells turbo heat shields, you know, like what use to come on the grand nationals. I could probably make 2 but If I can buy them it would be easier.

[edl406]

Well good news and bad news,, good news is I got everything done that was planned, headers wrapped , exhaust finished, oil changed out with 20 50 royal purple, I moved both turbo oil feeds to the oil filter area and just put the gauge on the top of the block. fender liners are in (believe it or not) drivers side was a little tight but nothing a hammer and dolley couldnt fix. i moved the brake proportioning valve to the frame rail and wrapped quite a few things with heat wrap. It looks quite impressive under the hood I must say. The heat wrap was a bit of a pain in the ass to work with but well worth it, a definte difference in under hood temp. Money well spent there for sure. I used DEI 2000 degree black 50 ft roll does both short headers with a little left over. make sure to get the locking tie straps too. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DEI%2D010108&N=700+115&autoview=sku
And for the bad news, Now I have 75lbs of oil pressure and my water pump is leaking. It never ends. Its like Im chasing my tail at times.

You know It seems that Im the only one posting in here at times but Im seeing the amount of views of this post, so I must be posting good info so Ill continue to do so. Almost as many views as the EFI sticky, must be alot of Interested gear heads out there.

[edl406]

I have a little tuning question. If I get into the gas to take off it feeels pretty good, but then when I go to a constant 25-30 mpg cruise speed it acts like its getting too much fuel or maybe not enough spark. My EGT's start climbing when this happens and seems to slow the truck down a little, and really runs like poo. If I push the clutch to the floor and rev it a couple of times the egt's go back down and it idles real good , but mind you Im coasting with the clutch pushed in. When I let the clutch out and give it gas a little the same thing happens. If I munche pedal to the floor instead of trying to go 25 it takes off fine.

What my actual question is, is how do you know if you need to adjust the spark or the fuel. It seems that too much fuel will raise egt's but on the other hand not enough fuel and too much spark will also raise egt's. I thought about reading the AFR gauge but , lets say it goes lean, I add fuel. then its ok. But how do I know if I should have taken away spark instead.:confused:

Is there something that I should also be monitoring in order to adjust the timing and fuel. Any pointers would be great.

[edl406]

here are the extra vac ports that I added.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10009-1.jpg
and
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10010-1.jpg
the bottom one is a little tight on the socket when tightening the TB.

A new top view, its a little fuzzy, camera screwing up.
any way I redid the inlet tubes and added braces to the turbo's that go to the TB bolts. just a couple of things.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10001-1.jpg

down tube collector joint
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10007-1.jpg
X pipe , new crossmember and my t-56
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10008-1.jpg

passenger side with inner fenders in, headers wrapped.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10011-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10005-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10006-1.jpg

drivers side, all wrapped up, inner fender need a little messaging to get it in, fits good now. I relocated the proportioning valve to the frame rail just below the air filter and wrapped the mastercylinder till I can get a suteable replacement.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10012-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10002-1.jpg

the alternator, and the fuel fittings that I had to change are shown.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/newpicss10004-1.jpg

And a reminder what I started out with.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
I honestly didnt think it would fit, almost packed up the stuff and shipped it back.


The plan is to get it all dialed in this summer and come winter Im tearin it all down to repaint everything from top to bottom. While I have the truck apart, Pull the motor, look over things and make sure I didnt hurt anything from trying to tune it. Probably move the oil drains to the oil pan, drill out an oil port up front to feed the turbo's, and install a high vol oil pump.

[edl406]

well I finally got a nice day to take er out. I was doing good till I blew the right intake tube apart, I must not have had it on far enough. You know I swore I saw a ball of fire come out of it but Im not 100% sure. I thought I blew it up:scared: I did that lugging the engine down, then bringing up the boost pressure, It was only around 5psi though. I dont know, I put the tube back on and went out for round 2.

I have realized something. I was beating on it quite alot today, at one point I saw the boost psi go to 10 , I still had half pedal to go! thats just sick.... Are the turbo's too small causing this? Oh and I still havent figured out the manual boost valve, I keep one eye on the boost gauge and one on the road, I try to stay around 5-7 but I got carried away with the 10psi. Any one know how to adjust a turbonetics manual boost valve without driving around while messing with it. can I maybe use shop air or something?
And Its a freaking gas hog too, 5 gallons, $20 gets an hour of beating. Its worth it as long as you dont end up with a ticket or in jail.
:drive1:

Any help on the boost controller would be great.

[edl406]

Its ben a while since I have been on here, I havent been messing with it much since the gas prices have been going up. I took it out a couple of times to try to adjust the boost controller. I have been told to junk the manual boost controller by a few local guys. Im not too sure what to do with that info. I would like to at least try to knowingly use the manual boost controller before I spend hundreds on a fancy one. Hopefully this weekend Ill get to taker her out. the last time out I had issues loading up under cruising rpm and speed, Maybe I ll work that problem out. Its hard being the driver and tuner at the same time, and gets frustrating real quick for me.

[edl406]

Can I wrap my turbo"s with the same heat wrap or is that a bad Idea? Im trying to save my fiberglass hood and My master cylinder from cooking.

[ty1295]

I personally hate manual boost valves. I never understood the logic of relying on a $20 part to control the end result of a motor worth several thousands.

They sell special covers for the turbo exhaust housing. You can wrap it, I just personally don't like the look of wrap.

My headers are coated by swain and so far I am very happy with how well it has reduced the heat. I plan to eventually have the downpipes and housings also coated.

[Motown 454]

Awesome project , very interesting.
Wayne

[edl406]

I personally hate manual boost valves. I never understood the logic of relying on a $20 part to control the end result of a motor worth several thousands.

You know I thought of it that way after realizing what the valve does. When I bought it I was still learning about this turbo stuff. Im currently looking for a good deal on a fancy one to use.

I found the turbo covers. dont know which way to go , maybe have everything coated this winter. for now just wrap them to get me through the summer.

[Monzsta]

Excellent work. Was that the SSAutochrome kit? I'm thinking of picking one up to install. Once it's in and tuned, larger turbo's would be substituted. Like you, I have the Edelbrock Pro Flo intake, throttlebody, and rails. However, I'm using Megasquirt to run the fueling and spark. I was originally going to go with Ford EDIS-8, but I upgraded to MsExtra, and the controller will fire the coils directly. No distributor.

A note on the headers, what gauge metal are they? Hate you practically had to make your own headers after buying a set.

[edl406]

the kit was off of ebay,california/china stuff, the turbo's have JDM stamped in them. They were meant to be a starting point, for later upgrades to Garrett's.
Not sure on the wall thickness of the tubing, the headers were slightly thinner than the extra U bends that I bought, those had to be a good 1/8 inch thick, I know It sucked to cut them. the bends were also bought off of ebay, look around on there there is a guy that sells them at a pretty good price, price was per U bend, 304 stainless. I think I had around 100 bucks for 5 pieces.
Yeah If I had the choice to do it over again I would have just made a set from the beginning. The only good thing about it was to buy them seperate not in the kit was around 200 so I figure that I would have had that in the flanges and tubing that I used anyway. The sucky part was cleaning up the used pieces from previous welds.

[edl406]

Need some help guys.
Getting ready for spring.
Im looking into swapping out my bottom end and cam . The old stuff is cheap shelf stuff that was installed for a basic carb setup with 10:1 CR. I would continue to tune and run er hard but Im afraid of hurting the heads and turbo's if it scatters. And at this point I can just swap out the components with out any block work.
I have been lookin at some info on Dynamic and static compression ratios when trying to determine where I should be running. This stuff really gets me confused. I have determined that I need to get a dished piston but I dont know whether to go with a 21cc or a 30cc dish. I have already made up my mind that Im not going with a 6" rod cause I dont want to loose piston strength. So a 5.7 rod is where im headed but cant decide on a piston. I have ran across several compression ratio calculators on the net and it appears that there is no standard. They all come up with different results. and To do the math to figure it out is like rocket science or something.
If any one can help that would be great.
The heads are edelbrock performer 70cc heads.
The cam that I picked is http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA-12-251-4
The rotating assembly is
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP-13008030
Is 30cc too big?

[edl406]

A little update, since the season is coming..
well I pulled the engine last weekend to get ready for some new parts in the bottom end. At first it was going smoothly till I drained the oil, the first quart was coolant. I then proceeded to tear it down to find out what happened. I still havent figured it out for sure. the head gaskets are perfect, the intake gasket was pretty nice too. The only area that I can see may be the problem is the head bolts. I used silicone to seal the threads and there is no sign of silicone on them at all. A guy told me that I should have used permitex to seal them. Im going to get the heads tested and have the block checked before I buy anything.

[Monzsta]

Yeah, I've had silicone dissapear as well. The stuff from my dealer holds up well enough, but the Permatex RTV stuff just doesn't stick around. I now use the dedicated white goopy thread sealer, and no problems.

Have you gotten this beast back together yet?

[JRouche]

WOW!!!!! I missed this thread. Glad I caught it. Im saving the whole thing on my computer for future reference.

I have the pro-flo 3500 on a 350 right now. And anytime I see anything about them (the 3500 PFs) I grab the info, but this reaches further than anything I have seen yet. I love it!!!

My 350 is built pretty solid, forged scat crank and rods, splayed four bolt case, forged manley pistons, ARP fasteners holds it all together. Its really ready for a hit of HP adders. My pistons would have to be changed out, Im at 10.5:1 right now, too much for an air stuffer.

But anyway, glad to see a guy stepping outta the box and trying something different. I havent read all the posts YET, but I will. Im sure Ill have some questions. Glad I caught this thread.... JR