86 442 frame-off

[jackfrost]

well, my project isn't nearly as cool as what ya'll are doing, but here's whats happening:

I have an Olds 403 smallblock coming together, so I was planning a motor swap this winter. then I got to thinking, pulling the front clip isn't so hard, and it'll let me clean, detail and paint everything in the engine compartment. of course, nothing is that simple, and it becomes the classic "mightaswell" case.

before:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6110JPG-1.jpg
progress:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6186JPG-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6199JPG-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6201JPG-1.jpg

to get at the bolts for the right fender, you need to open the door... since it's like 20* outside, I just jockeyed the car around with floor jacks.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6202JPG-1.jpg
there's a good foot in between cars... :rolleyes:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6203JPG-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6210JPG-1.jpg

to get the HVAC unit out, the dash has to come out. (i didn't know this before I started) now look:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6214JPG-1.jpg

at this point the old 307 is ready to come out. i was underneath the rear unbolting the driver tailpipe, and I put my hand up between the frame and body, where there is a body bushing behind the rear wheel. well, i pulled out this:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6217JPG-1.jpg

that's supposed to be a bolt. :eek:

but the frame appears solid, which is usually a problem on these cars.

soo... now I know the body needs to come off the frame at least a little to put new body bushings in it (not so bad, since it will firm up the ride as well). then I get to thinking, well, if I lift the body all the way off, I can clean up the frame and get it painted up nice. also, i found some rot in the floor on the passenger side that needs repaired, so the rest of the interior will be coming out.

my biggest problem (besides lack of money) is space! as you can see from the pics, i have two cars in the garage, and not much room on the sides. my house has no basement and tiny attic. I think the Javelin might have to sit outside in the snow for a few weeks.

anyway, that's the current state, minus a couple small things I've been working on after work. i'll add more pics later.

[frankenstang]

Rent a storage shed for the Jav. I'd hate to leave my scrap out in the midwest over the winter. Really surprised the rear frame rail isn't rotted thru. We used to get those G bodies in all the time and see the rear bumpers bouncing as the car went up on the lift!

Good luck with the project.

[WS6]

I nearly bought an 87 442. I really like those cars. good luck

[Code Red]

another fiberglass forums guy on here huh ;-)

[jackfrost]

another fiberglass forums guy on here huh ;-)

yep. I got some FG ideas up my sleeve...:naughty:

[jackfrost]

a little side project today... removed the bumperettes, and cut some 16 ga. to fill the holes in the bumper

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6219JPG-1.jpg

use the first as a template for the second
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6220JPG-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6221JPG-1.jpg

one side down...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/IMG_6222JPG-1.jpg

[jackfrost]

lots of progress this weekend. borrowed a hoist from a friend and put it to good use...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6223JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6226JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6228JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6229JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6243JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6244JPG-1.jpg
almost done... :rolleyes:

here's what was left of the body bolts...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6241JPG-1.jpg
some were perfect, some, not so much.

[jackfrost]

also (finally) found some wheels

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/nogaro_silver_reg_normal_white-1.jpg

TSW Nogaro

they have 17x8, 18x8 and 18x9. not sure what size i'm going with yet, but I have been looking for a clean 5-spoke design forever, with low offset. i will still need adapters, but less than an inch.

[SixSpeed454SS]

nice project

[jackfrost]

it was 60* here yesterday, so I got to play lots.
frame and body are completely separated!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6245JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6247JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6248JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/02/IMG_6249JPG-1.jpg

i know all this wasn't in the plan, but I'm glad I went this far. all the body bushings were toast: 1 fell out without seeing a ratchet, 3 or 4 of them were rusting through the frame, and will require repair. today I discovered my brake line to the rear (the only one that hasn't been replaced) was paper thin. i can't believe it wasn't leaking.

and, there is more rust damage than I thought to the body. so it will be good to get in there and clean it up, and prevent any more cancer. i need to start practicing butt welds. :smoke:

[Code Red]

wow I hope that setup holds up

[deuce_454]

awesome.... i can only recomend boxing the frame and installing aluminum mounts... it takes alot of the "canoe" handling out of a g.gody... and the ride supprisingly isnt that harsh.. just "honda like" and the best is that its not much more expensive than doung nothing and installing new rubber....

i see some tubular controll arms up front, are you running tall ball joints as well?? if not then that would be my next suggestion... (the rear controll arms can do with some boxing as well

[jackfrost]

i will be boxing the frame and using Energy Suspension mounts. i'm also going to notch the frame around the rear wheels, and box the rear control arms.

the front has 12" discs, b-body spindles and Global West UCA's.

[jackfrost]

wow I hope that setup holds up

heh... i had to get the body up that high to clear the frame. it's lower now. and more stable. :naughty:

[jackfrost]

well, its been awhile since the last update. I've been working a lot trying to pay off the furnace so I have some car money again... :banghead:

anyway, I took the jump and started cutting on the car

frame notching:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/IMG_6404-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/IMG_6408-1.jpg

and mini-tubbing:
before
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/IMG_6412JPG-1.jpg
after
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/IMG_6418-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/IMG_6420-1.jpg

I sure hope I can put it all back together again... :rotfl:

[Tony_SS]

Looking good Dave - keep at it!

[shizzy]

looks great! looks like you had a little bit of rust thats going to be taken care of with the mini tub job there. :woot:

[jackfrost]

so I've hit sort of a big turning point in the project: there's a lot more rot on the body than I was aware of, which made it pretty much impossible to put it back together without fixing it.

so I took a couple days off to decide what to do, and ended up deciding to go whole hog, rip it all apart and do it right the first time. so now I'm pulling every thing off that isn't welded on, in preparation for media blasting the body.

in doing so, I found even more rot: the t-top frame, on the driver side around the windshield, the back of the t-top frames, under the stainless trim, and a spot in the backseat under the seam sealer. i'm starting to think seam sealer is evil. most of it on this car just seemed to trap moisture and rot out the steel, instead of "sealing".

I also found a hairline crack in the windshield, after taking off the trim. :banghead: so add a new 'shield to "the list".

so, I feel better knowing that EVERYTHING will get fixed right, and there won't be anymore stuff hidden from me, but man is it discouraging.

on a positive note, I found a guy who sold me a whole driver's side floor pan for $60. it looks almost brand new.

will try and get some more recent pictures to share my "adventures". :razz:

[rmccubbin]

That's some awesome work Dave. Keep us updated with pics!

[jackfrost]

alright... here's some of the carnage:

passenger footwell
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6426JPG-1.jpg

rear seat, passenger side
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6428JPG-1.jpg

T-tops :eek:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6429JPG-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6427JPG-1.jpg

driver floor
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6430JPG-1.jpg

driver quarter, old repair
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6431JPG-1.jpg

and here's the one that made me decide to go for the media blasting. this is supposed to be a body mount, right behind the driver rear wheel
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6435JPG-1.jpg

that one will be fun to fix. I think i will probably cut out that whole section and build a box out of 16 ga that will be the body mount.

[Code Red]

ewww cancer I feel your pain though better be heading over to restoration world

[jackfrost]

more pictures. :)

just got my engine stuff back from the machine shop last week.

Keith-Black pistons, special made to boost compression ratio in a 403. final comp will depend on other stuff, but normal for these pistons is 9.4:1 instead of the lousy 7.9:1 you'd get w/ stock replacement pistons. stock rods, ARP rod bolts.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6438JPG-1.jpg

block bored out to 4.375". biggest bore GM ever made. :cool:
ARP main bolts. crank cut 0.010", polished, chamfered oil holes.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6439JPG-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6440JPG-1.jpg
beauty shot:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_6444JPG-1.jpg


next up is heads, but I will wait until the body/frame is blasted and primed to do those.

[Sowardjr]

Good luck with your project. I have an 82 Monte and I'm in the process of taking the body off the frame to box and move the frame rails inboard and mini tub it. I have three body mount bolts that's just spinning, so it looks like I'll be cutting through the floor to tack them in place. Keep the pics coming.

[GBodyGMachine]

Thats how I did my frame. Easy isn't it?
Keep up the good work!

[jackfrost]

I have three body mount bolts that's just spinning, so it looks like I'll be cutting through the floor to tack them in place.

i had this happen with a couple. I just drilled down w/ a 1/8" bit from above close to the bolt, and left the bit in place. then remove the bolt, as the drill bit keeps the nut from spinning.

although, I think I'll have to end up cutting a piece of the floor out anyway when I put the body back on the frame.

[jackfrost]

wow. it's been awhile since an update. I spent most of the summer working side jobs to try and save up some money to put toward the project. every time I'd put some together, some other expense would pop up. :banghead:

anyway - i'm pretty excited to have some progress to report. sunday I loaded up my friend's trailer with anything rusty I could find, and monday morning (35*F and raining) drove it across town to the blaster
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/IMG_6971-1.jpg

Dayton Metal Prep (http://daytonmetalprep.com)

they will be staying away from the flat surfaces like the quarters and roof, but going to town on everything else. after the picture was taken I loaded up the rear window w/ duct tape to protect it. he said they would probably get to it next week.

i'm looking forward to having a rust-free project!

[BigBlockOlds]

Dave emailed me today and said you took everything over there. Let me know how everything turns out. I had hoped to have my frame to them here before Thanksgiving but ran into a few problems that set me back a bit.

Looks good!

[jackfrost]

whoops. forgot to post an update. I got all my stuff back from the blaster after Thanksgiving. outside temp was about 30*

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7109-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7111-1.jpg

I knew not to expect any good news from the blaster, but I've got a lot more work ahead of me than I thought. here's the gory details:

inner fenders:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7113-1.jpg

t-tops & roof
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7115-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7120-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7121-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7122-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7130-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7132-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7136-1.jpg

[jackfrost]

floors:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7117-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7118-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7119-1.jpg

rockers:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7123-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_7133-1.jpg

I picked up a 60gal Devilbiss compressor off of craiglist, so I'm good to go for lots of grinding and sanding. :hand:

[gearheads78]

If this is a "mini" frame off I would hate to see you go all out :hammer:

Looks like you will be a very good welder when this is all done. Its a cool project keep going.

[jackfrost]

If this is a "mini" frame off I would hate to see you go all out :hammer:

Looks like you will be a very good welder when this is all done. Its a cool project keep going.

hah. it started as a motor swap, clean-it-up sort of deal. then I discovered half the body mounts weren't holding the body on anymore.

is there a way to change the thread title?

[BigBlockOlds]

Haha, I know that feeling. My project started as a simple "scuff & paint" 5 years ago. :(

[MZ 500]

Wow I think that T-Top area is going to be the hardest part are you going to try and fab it? you will want to get it epoxy primed soon I didn't get mine painted in time and got a lot of flash rust it only took a day or so to show up. Looks like your in it for the long hall just keep after it you will get there.

Matt

[icebird84]

nice project , you have some body work to do, I´m looking forward to your next update

hah. it started as a motor swap, clean-it-up sort of deal. then I discovered half the body mounts weren't holding the body on anymore.

is there a way to change the thread title?

go to the first post in this thread , edit it there in go advanced

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/help-1.jpg

[CRCRFT78]

It seems these g-bodies are prone to rust. I keep finding more on my Malibu everytime I look at something else. Keep up the good work though.

[jackfrost]

Wow I think that T-Top area is going to be the hardest part are you going to try and fab it? you will want to get it epoxy primed soon I didn't get mine painted in time and got a lot of flash rust it only took a day or so to show up. Looks like your in it for the long hall just keep after it you will get there.

yeah, it will definitely be the hardest part. I will be able to fab the flat pieces, but there is a U-channel that holds the weatherstripping that I will probably have to find on a donor car. or else just get the whole corner off of a donor car. funny thing is, the passenger side is almost mint, except for a small hole on the underside of the a-pillar.

I will probably be priming parts as I get them fixed. I haven't seen any flash rust so far..

[icebird84]

hey Jack maybe you can use this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260332506980&ih=016&category=6783&_trksid=p4506.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DK%252BD%26otn%3D2%26p s%3D5

[BigBlockOlds]

Would this help you out any:

http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=55_84_90&products_id=136&osCsid=f3fc1dee1e64cf6aefca8d63e08d4159

I know you can buy the pieces individually as well.

[GBodyGMachine]

EWW, That sucks man. Good luck.

[jackfrost]

Would this help you out any:
http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=55_84_90&products_id=136&osCsid=f3fc1dee1e64cf6aefca8d63e08d4159
I know you can buy the pieces individually as well.

well, I have a replacement center rail and top plates. what I need is actually part of the a-pillar and windshield frame. I know Gregg did some of this type of work on Joe's car, so he might be able to help me out there.

[CamaroJesse]

That car reminds me of my old 87 grand national. Probably just as rusty. I did the same thing with taking my body off. And the mounts on mine were non existent when i got in there too. It will sure be sweet when all done though. Gotta love G-bodys.

[No one]

Any updates?

[jackfrost]

not much new... it's pretty cold in the garage. I've just been slowly stripping the flat panels the blaster didn't do. I'm thinking the driver door is toast - a lot of filler in the bottom corners.

i'll be buying a new welder soon and my buddy Andrew has offered me use of his rotisserie when he's done with it, so hopefully there will be some real progress in the next couple of months.

[BigBlockOlds]

Dave,

Gregg is coming by this Saturday to help with a little welding work on the body of the car. Chassis is almost complete, just need to finish up a couple of the suspension pieces and take my fuel and brake line mock-ups to be reproduced in stainless.

Hopefully I'll be able to drop the rotisserie off to you in a couple of months if not sooner! "fingers crossed"

[jackfrost]

take your time... I have PLENTY to keep me occupied :razz:

[calcutlass]

phew! u make me feel a little better after looking at these pics! lol its comming along great man.itll be nice when your done with it.

[calcutlass]

see if i can post some pics of mine. calcutlass

[Code Red]

u done yet ;-)

[Code Red]

btw what part of dayton r u in

[jackfrost]

u done yet ;-)

dude, sometimes it feels like I haven't even started. my welder has taken a crap on me, so now I'm saving up to get a decent welder.

in the meantime I've been stripping seam sealer and the rest of the paint, and I got some epoxy on the core support, sway bars, control arms, and an inner fender. then I ran out of nice days.

lesson learned: if you plan on using epoxy, don't wait until late fall to start. :banghead:


btw what part of dayton r u in

Centerville. just south of where Bigger Rd. dead ends into Alex-Bell. I work at LexisNexis in Miamisburg.

[jackfrost]

phew! u make me feel a little better after looking at these pics! lol its comming along great man.itll be nice when your done with it.

thanks. i hope it works out.

[EagleEye]

wow.
yours is scaring me.

i'm kinda wondering how your going to brace it. do you plan on removing the doors at all.
i've heard bad things about pulling T-top body off a frame. i've heard flexes more than a convert.
would like to do frame resto while body is being prepped.

yeah, i'm still scared to dig into mine. it looks really nice on outside, but it's a Michigan lifer but orig owner did garage it most of it's life. just last few years it was sittin outside.

my bodywork won't be starting for a couple years tho..

keep those pics coming..............

[Code Red]

Centerville. just south of where Bigger Rd. dead ends into Alex-Bell. I work at LexisNexis in Miamisburg.


I live in Huber Heights and work in Miamisburg

[jackfrost]

i'm kinda wondering how your going to brace it. do you plan on removing the doors at all.
i've heard bad things about pulling T-top body off a frame. i've heard flexes more than a convert.

doors are out. the body doesn't flex at all, not sure where you heard that.

here's a pic of the media blaster loading it. the straps are going through the rear taillight holes and the firewall.

[jackfrost]

I just found this picture of the car a couple years ago after I did the suspension upgrades (b-body spindles w/ 12" brakes, eibach springs, bilsteins)

[Code Red]

car sure has seen better days ;-)

[calcutlass]

i kept the door on mines i had to cut both of my floors out. the window channel had holes in it water seeped down the pillars to the floor and sat under the carpet. thanks for postin the pics frost. i was a little scared to cut the wheel wells.

[86regalss]

you have me thinking. There are lots of rust free gbodies down here in so cal. I should start shipping them to the east coast, to rust havens. I gotta see whats involved in shipping a car. It might be a summer part time job :)

[86regalss]

keep up the good work though. seems like you are on track!

[jackfrost]

you have me thinking. There are lots of rust free gbodies down here in so cal. I should start shipping them to the east coast, to rust havens. I gotta see whats involved in shipping a car. It might be a summer part time job :)

if you do that, bring doors. lots of doors. you will make a mint.

[EagleEye]

if you do that, bring doors. lots of doors. you will make a mint.


that's a fact, jack.

drop off 2 to me on your way :attn:

[EagleEye]

doors are out. the body doesn't flex at all, not sure where you heard that.

here's a pic of the media blaster loading it. the straps are going through the rear taillight holes and the firewall.


that does look pretty sturdy even though it looks crude.
let us know if any dis-alignment occurs.
that would relieve me of any worries.

[calcutlass]

i got a question for ya mrfrost. when u cut the inner wheel weld. u cut in the seam or did u come out maybe a half inch or less

[jackfrost]

I cut out a half inch or so.

however, this was before my friend Gregg let me know that moving the tub isn't really necessary. for the most part, you can just cut where the tub meets the trunk floor, and then hammer it into place. the frame notch is only an inch or so, and doesn't require a lot of extra space in the tub.

since the body is still on the frame from being sent to the media blaster, I centered the body on the frame, and he's right. the tub itself only needs to move inward maybe half an inch to an inch. I'll try and get a picture of what I'm talking about.

having said that, there is a lot of rust where the tub meets the trunk floor, and it will need repair on both sides regardless, so I'm not sure if I could get away with it or not.

[jackfrost]

here are the minitub pics. this is on the DS, I cut out the tub and cut into the body a little. the frame is already notched, so you can see the body notch wasn't really necessary.

this pic is from the trunk:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/minitub01-1.jpg

and from inside:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/minitub02-1.jpg

the body is centered on the frame.

[jackfrost]

and a small update. a couple weeks ago I got some epoxy primer on the core support, sway bars, controls arms...

this last weekend I finished stripping the outer fenders and one door, and got some epoxy on them:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/IMG_7433-1.jpg

hmm... always love suprises hiding under body filler:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/IMG_7420-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/IMG_7436-1.jpg

mixing epoxy:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/paint01-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/IMG_7440-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/IMG_7441-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/IMG_7444-1.jpg

door is nice and wavy, eh? :smoke:

[ProTouring442]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

door is nice and wavy, eh? :smoke:

Nah, that'll buff right out...

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[jackfrost]

I am very excited. last night I won a Millermatic 140 Autoset on eBay for $620 to replace my old Clarke POS. it includes cart, wire, gloves, a full tank of argon/co2, and is practically brand new. I tried it out a little and it welds so smooth. just goes to show how important good tools are.

now I can actually get to patching some panels.

[Code Red]

I am very excited. last night I won a Millermatic 140 Autoset on eBay for $620 to replace my old Clarke POS. it includes cart, wire, gloves, a full tank of argon/co2, and is practically brand new. I tried it out a little and it welds so smooth. just goes to show how important good tools are.

now I can actually get to patching some panels.


(comes over and steals his argon tank) hehe

[calcutlass]

if you do that, bring doors. lots of doors. you will make a mint.
doors and trunk lids lol ive seen some horrifing trunk lids the only thing that was keeping the trunk from fallin off was the pin stripes:eek:

[HotRods442]

I just found this picture of the car a couple years ago after I did the suspension upgrades (b-body spindles w/ 12" brakes, eibach springs, bilsteins)
What is your honest opinion of these upgrades? Handling better? I'm considering similar upgrades and would like to know how much difference it really makes to a G-Body 442. My 80 is an A, but close enough.
BTW-That's a lotta work you're doing, bro. Nice job, so far. Long live 442's!
HotRod
1980 W-30 442

[CruizinKev]

very nice project man :twothumbs

[ProTouring442]

What is your honest opinion of these upgrades? Handling better? I'm considering similar upgrades and would like to know how much difference it really makes to a G-Body 442. My 80 is an A, but close enough.
BTW-That's a lotta work you're doing, bro. Nice job, so far. Long live 442's!
HotRod
1980 W-30 442


Actually, since your '80 has the formal roof design, I would think it was a G. The Malibu and Lemans, with their sloped rear window and lack of an opera window on the side makes them A bodies. The distinction came about in '70 with the standard Cutlass S, Skylark, Chevelle, and Lemans were all A bodies while the Cutlass Supreme, Monte Carlo, and Grand Prix were G bodies.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[jackfrost]

What is your honest opinion of these upgrades? Handling better?

well, all at the same time, I upgraded to Eibach springs, Bilstein shocks, Global West upper arms, b-body spindles with 12" 1LE brakes, Del-A-Lum bushings in the front arms, and new steering links. the difference was night and day, but I can't say which upgrade made what difference. not very scientific. :)

I would say springs and Bilsteins are the best bang for the buck for these cars after frame bracing. also, I felt hardly any bumpsteer with the b-body spindles, but maybe I wasn't driving hard enough, or over uneven surfaces.

[jackfrost]

Actually, since your '80 has the formal roof design, I would think it was a G. The Malibu and Lemans, with their sloped rear window and lack of an opera window on the side makes them A bodies. The distinction came about in '70 with the standard Cutlass S, Skylark, Chevelle, and Lemans were all A bodies while the Cutlass Supreme, Monte Carlo, and Grand Prix were G bodies.

well, you're sorta right and sorta wrong. :razz:


The General Motors G platform (also called G-body) was an automobile platform designation used for mid-sized rear wheel drive cars from 1982 to 1988. G-Bodies began production designated as GM A platform (RWD) cars in 1978, but were redesignated to G when the GM A platform (FWD) was introduced in 1982.

In 1988, most G-bodies were moved to the new front wheel drive GM W platform, although the Pontiac Bonneville moved to the H-body. GM later used the GM G platform (FWD) designation for unrelated full-sized cars.

The G-body designation was originally used for 1969-1972 Pontiac Grand Prix and 1970-1972 Chevrolet Monte Carlo personal luxury coupes. Between 1973 and 1981 the coupes with formal rooflines were designated as A-Special and after 1982 dubbed as the G-Special. These Specials included Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and Buick Regal two door models.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_G_platform_(RWD)

[jackfrost]

so, an update... but no pics yet.

last night I finished stripping the driver door and quarters. and... I think my driver door is toast. it looks like someone used a grinder to block it down at some point, and there are some nice rust holes in the skin. not to mention dozens of little dings and waves. :doh:

but i'm officially done removing things. no more seam sealer, no more paint. my wife is out of town, so I anticipate lots of work this weekend patching holes. i'd also like to lay down some epoxy on the body shell to not worry about surface rust.

i've also fully welded the seams from the floor pan to the rockers and to the firewall.

[zman1969]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

wish you northerners would contact us down south when you want a project to start with- you could pick up a clean shell here for 500-1500$ and take it home and have so little rust to deal with. my 69 needed rear floors, trunk pan and outer wheelhouses replaced not bad for 40 years old - man I grew up in Chicago and I dont miss the rust!!!!! good luck with your car -how big of tires can you fit now?

[ProTouring442]

well, you're sorta right and sorta wrong. :razz:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_G_platform_(RWD) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_G_platform_%28RWD%29)

Hmmm... except of course that it forgets the 70-72 Cutlass Supreme which used the same formal roof body as the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix, but on a standard wheelbase frame instead of the 4-door frame used by the latter two.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[jackfrost]

just a couple of cell phone pics - just doing one patch at a time:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[CRCRFT78]

Looking good.

[BigBlockOlds]

Looking good Dave!

Hopefully I can get you my rotisserie here soon...

I'm on vacation this week and am trying to hit it hard. Finished rebuilding my two body mounts near the back seat and started seam sealing tonight. Tomorrow I hope to start spraying more sound deadening.

I'm shooting to have everything ready to sit back on the frame for the final time this weekend. Once thats done, the rotisserie is all yours.

[jackfrost]

that'd be awesome. but don't rush yourself, I have PLENTY to keep me occupied. :D

[jackfrost]

not much new, but it's been a while since I've posted. Andy was gracious enough to loan me his rotisserie since he's finished with it:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

this will make the rest of the body work SO much easier, not to mention there's more room in the garage with the car vertical (and mobile). thanks again Andy.

also, the back half of the car is in epoxy now. the rest is ready, I just need to get the metal cleaned and find time to spray it.

[BigBlockOlds]

Awesome Dave! That rotisserie is nice isn't it! ;) Like you said, not only does it make it easier to work on but the amount of space you get back while having it vertical is great. There's no way I could have gotten the results I did on the underside without it.

Keep it as long as you need it. I'm glad you could make use of it.

[martyd03]

Looks great Dave... keep it up, I can't wait to see these cars finished. It seems that the Dayton area is a pretty good place to find G-Bodies, let me know if you end up at a show with this, I would love to see it in person.
I'm going to have to check out that shop that does the sand blasting. I've been searching for one close to Lancaster/Columbus, but haven't found one anybody would recommend yet.

[Code Red]

not much new, but it's been a while since I've posted. Andy was gracious enough to loan me his rotisserie since he's finished with it:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

this will make the rest of the body work SO much easier, not to mention there's more room in the garage with the car vertical (and mobile). thanks again Andy.

also, the back half of the car is in epoxy now. the rest is ready, I just need to get the metal cleaned and find time to spray it.

I can see through your floor ;-)

[jackfrost]

I can see through your floor ;-)

and the rockers... and the quarters... and the windshield frame.. and...


*sigh*

[calcutlass]

i feel the same way, everytime i go in the gararge and see the full hotchkis suspension, new 9 inch extreme sway bar. i smile............then i look at the floor in the car.....damn:hammer:

[1978Chevette]

You got a lot of work to go, but its going to be worth it...

[jackfrost]

well, I haven't had much time to work on it lately since I've been slammed at work, but I sneak in a few hours here and there. I had one good weekend where I was able to get one side of the frame notch completed.

I went downtown and picked up a 4x4' sheet of 1/8" and a big sheet of 16 ga. use the 1/8" to make the notch panel and it took me probably an entire day of trimming and fitting to get it nice. then I pie-cut the frame where the outside of the rail tied in, to make it look more natural.

here's the pics:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

tacked in:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/IMG_0191-1.jpg

and fully welded:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/IMG_0192-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/IMG_0193-1.jpg

I also got a new Eastwood Concours spray gun for my birthday, but then promptly ran out of primer. money has been tight, so I've been working on the frame until I can get more primer.

next up is boxing in the C-channels and fixing the body mounts on the frame that have rotted out. I'd like to have the frame completed by winter, but who knows...

[jackfrost]

got a little more done last weekend. I found on the McMaster-Carr website a set of washers the right size to fix the body mounts on the frame. these are 1 1/2" ID, 3" OD, 0.135" thick. 5 pack for $11. I was pleased to find that it only took me an hour or so to do each one. just hogged out the hole to get to good metal with a die grinder and cutoff wheel, then welded in the washer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

still got one left to do.

meanwhile, I cut up some of the 1/8" sheet I have and boxed in the open frame rails:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

the other side is done as well, just no pic of it. I'll go back in with a holesaw and open up next to the body mount to be able to get the bushing in.

I also got another shipment of SPI epoxy in, so I can finish primering the body, and shoot some on the frame. just need to do the other side notch, fix the one remaining body mount, and add some gusseting and the frame will be ready for paint.

it's nice to be making progress!

[BigBlockOlds]

Looking good Dave! I really like how you went about your frame notch. Makes it look less like a notch and more like it came that way from the factory.

One thing you might consider is that I was told that you should try to box in the part of the frame where you ended your C channel boxing at.
I was told it would keep that from being a weakpoint in the chassis. I figured a little more metal wouldn't hurt.
You can see how it looks after adding the metal:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/Photo_111008_002-1.jpg

Keep up the good work!

[jackfrost]

One thing you might consider is that I was told that you should try to box in the part of the frame where you ended your C channel boxing at. I was told it would keep that from being a weakpoint in the chassis. I figured a little more metal wouldn't hurt.

yep, that's on the list. I was going to just put a square piece over it to tie it in, but I like the way you smoothed yours out. maybe I'll do that instead.

thanks!

[73supreme455]

Nice!! Keep up the good work.

[icebird84]

Nice!! Keep up the good work.

indeed :1st:

[Mr. Snrub]

Hats off to you Jackfrost. Very cool build.

[jackfrost]

thanks guys.

I got some more work done this weekend.

did the driver's side frame notch:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I cut out my own brackets to reinforce the LCA mounts:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

and added some gussets to the rear axle crossmember. there was a little sheetmetal plate on the PS to shield the fuel lines from rocks and such (I'm guessing), so I just replaced it with 1/8" plate, and put one on the DS:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I also fixed the remaining body mount and cleaned up some of the factory welds where they looked thin. I flipped the frame over, and I want to brace the factory gussets to the rear crossmember so they're a little bit stronger.

after that, though, I'm done modifying the frame. I will start grinding off weld spatter and sand down the grinding, and it will be ready for some paint!

[6spdmalibu]

Came across this diagram:http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8126
Most of these you've done already, but a few would help further.
Build is looking good BTW.

[malihoochie]

Keep it up! I just pulled the body off of my 1979 Malibu last night. I have been following all these G body frame-off threads with interest lately.
Pretty much I am doing the same as you without narrowing the frame.

[pmgm]

Keep up the good work. That is my next project. Keep us posted with alot of pics..

[gto406]

Looking good Dave, just keep working away at it, you will feel really happy when it is finished and painted up!

[mc84_zz4]

Rotisserie, THAT's the way to do it.

[jackfrost]

Came across this diagram:http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8126
Most of these you've done already, but a few would help further.

oh, I've got all those covered. :) lots of things in the works for this car.

[jackfrost]

Rotisserie, THAT's the way to do it.

dude, you're not kidding. I wouldn't be able to do half the stuff I am doing to the body without it. and even if I could, it wouldn't be done with the quality it can now.

don't even think about trying it w/o one.

[gstock8732]

hey man, jus ran across this thread and read every single post and picture of the car.. you are doing a friggin awsome job.. im in the same senario as you except minus the rottisarie, i got my car supported the exact same way for like 3/4 a year and have had no iissues, except crawling under there with the creeper to repair the floor.. cant wait to see it finally put back together.. your and mine.. lol.. good luck with it..
btw, check out my car domain page, u wont feel lonely then.. hahahahah

[06RangerSTX]

Looks Great!!!! I cannot wait to see the car done!!!

[Hoghead123]

Damn my 81 is in the same shape yours was....Nice keep up the good work.

[pmgm]

Any updates?

[CruizinKev]

very nice job on the frame! keep it up :twothumbs

[jackfrost]

umm... whoops. I thought I posted an update later then September.

anyway, the frame is done. it's in 2 coats of epoxy and I built some brackets out of 2x4's to hold it upright and out of the way. here it is about to be painted:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

and then I just started working on patching rust. here's the passenger side inner rocker:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

and the passenger side footwell:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I actually got the footwell done, but don't seem to have any pictures of it.

that's the progress as of Christmas break. since then I haven't really had time to work on it, been busy working extra and remodeling the house. and it's frickin' cold out there!

also have to pay for gutters, soffit and windows sometime this year... :bsjerk: so who knows when it'll get more love... I guess in the meantime I'm "collecting ideas" :razz:

[Motown 454]

Nice progress we need some pictures of the frame painted.

[CruizinKev]

very nice! :twothumbs

[PT_79_TA_461]

it was 60* here yesterday, so I got to play lots.
frame and body are completely separated!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

i know all this wasn't in the plan, but I'm glad I went this far. all the body bushings were toast: 1 fell out without seeing a ratchet, 3 or 4 of them were rusting through the frame, and will require repair. today I discovered my brake line to the rear (the only one that hasn't been replaced) was paper thin. i can't believe it wasn't leaking.

and, there is more rust damage than I thought to the body. so it will be good to get in there and clean it up, and prevent any more cancer. i need to start practicing butt welds. :smoke:


dude, i love the Javelin, my friend is in a full restomod of his 74, swaping in an 06 SRT-10 viper chassis and running gear....all what you will see is Javelin, what you wont see is Viper....gonna be sick....i should post some pics of it here....

[Milwaukee tool guy]

1St. off great job you have a nice thread going keep it up......2Nd. I to am going to do a frame off job on my El camino when you boxed the frame. How are you going to install the bottom part of the body bushing...And 3rd when you had the body up on blocks did it set there ok...Because when I do mine I need to be able to roll my frame out from under the car evey time. because I don't have any room...Thanks

[jackfrost]

Nice progress we need some pictures of the frame painted.

you asked for it :razz: - this is all I can get at the moment
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[jackfrost]

dude, i love the Javelin, my friend is in a full restomod of his 74, swaping in an 06 SRT-10 viper chassis and running gear....all what you will see is Javelin, what you wont see is Viper....gonna be sick....i should post some pics of it here....

hell yeah! get him to start a thread here, i would LOVE to see that.

[jackfrost]

1St. off great job you have a nice thread going keep it up......2Nd. I to am going to do a frame off job on my El camino when you boxed the frame. How are you going to install the bottom part of the body bushing...And 3rd when you had the body up on blocks did it set there ok...Because when I do mine I need to be able to roll my frame out from under the car evey time. because I don't have any room...Thanks

welcome to the forum.

I'm going to use a 2-1/2" hole saw to cut a hole to get the bushing in.

when I had the body up on the blocks high enough to roll the frame out, it was a little wobbly. after I got the frame out I lowered it down quite a bit. I wouldn't liked to have left it there for very long. but it was also complete with interior & glass. maybe if it's just a shell...

[jackfrost]

just a small update - I've been trying to find a couple hours here and there to work on the car, but I've been doing a lot of freelancing, so that kills most of the free time.

but I started working on the driver's side floor. in case you didn't notice before, there's a huge gaping hole where my dad and I did a quickie patch job a long time ago. I bought a front and rear floor section off of a guy on oldspower.com to replace it.

from inside:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

from underneath:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

removed the seat mount:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

here's the replacement pan after I started trimming it down:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

mostly I've just been trimming a little at a time from both pieces. you can see from the last pic on the bottom edge (which is actually the left side) it is made up of several pieces layered together and spot-welded in. these layers are duplicated on the car, so right now I'm trying to figure out the best way to combine them. oh, and some of the pieces on the new pan are not the same shape that's on the car. sort of like welding two halves of two different onions together. :smoke:

[montessaj]

Nice update Dave, keep at it man.

[topher455]

Cool build. I have always loved the Cuttys. My neighbor had one and it was the first G body I ever wrenched on. Curious why you used a 403 instead of a 455. I really wish I had notched my frame while the car was apart. I guess I'll have to do it the hard way now.

[jackfrost]

I went with the 403 because all Olds smallblocks are externally identical, so it's a drop-in replacement. it's also smaller than the big block, so easier to get to stuff in the engine bay.

remember, originally I wasn't intending on going this far, I was just going to do an engine swap, and smallblock to smallblock is super easy.

[calcutlass]

and if built right a 403 makes waaaayyyy more power than a 455 and lighter too

[BigBlockOlds]

and if built right a 403 makes waaaayyyy more power than a 455 and lighter too


Ummmm....that's a pretty general statement. ;) You could also say iIf a 455 is built right, it would make more power than a 403. And if a 350 DX engine is built right, it would blow both of them away. :)

Dave, so how are things coming along? Anything new? The rotisserie working out okay? I'm thinking after your finished with it I'm going to have it media blasted and powder coated to keep it from rusting anymore.

I just pulled the roof skin off my car yesterday. Felt like I was taking a major step backwards. :(

[jackfrost]

Ummmm....that's a pretty general statement. ;) You could also say iIf a 455 is built right, it would make more power than a 403. And if a 350 DX engine is built right, it would blow both of them away. :)

Dave, so how are things coming along? Anything new? The rotisserie working out okay? I'm thinking after your finished with it I'm going to have it media blasted and powder coated to keep it from rusting anymore.

I just pulled the roof skin off my car yesterday. Felt like I was taking a major step backwards. :(

uh, yeah... not sure how you make the statement that a 403 makes "wayyyy more power" than a 455... :squint: but I wanted a smallblock for my car. eventually I'd like a 350 w/ a centrifugal blower.

the update is: there is no update. there is news though: my wife & I are expecting a boy in late November! :thankyou: :smoke:

soo... what this means for the 442 is there won't be updates for awhile. I've been working a lot of freelance overtime to save up some money for the kid, so not only do I not have any time to spend on the car, there's no money to spend on it either. maybe I will be able to steal into the garage to work on the floor pans, but that will be about it.

seeing Joe's car really made me impatient and jealous. :razz: and it wasn't even finished yet. the result is fantastic. for those that don't visit ROP, here's our friend Joe's 88 Hurst/Olds Aero he is just finishing. complete with a roller 455 and built 2004R and painted w/ the '69 H/O color scheme:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

lots of inspiration, there. :2nd:

[calcutlass]

yeah do ya homework, torque maybe not but hp definently. bracket or street setup, the dx block is thicker sturdier, than the 403. the nascar block (oh i didnt hear any thing bout that block) if you find one. is the baddest of the bad bored 030. over with a 3.5 stroke, youll embarrass a 455. 455 are awesome blocks dont get me wrong. but 403 is the more versatile, meaning u can do more (just incase you didnt know what the word meant). i hear guys are replacing their 455 with 425s. but long as you dont sell out and put a chevy motor in it i dont give a damn 403 455 425 350 whatever. somebody help me out with postin pics,....please

[ArtosDracon]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm keeping my 455 in my 73 Cutlass. I love the torque how easy it is to drive. Rolling off stopsigns and stoplights in neighborhoods or school zones just don't require throttle, just let off the gas and roll. It will be getting some edelbrock heads, an aluminum intake and some headers, probably a cam, but I'm even keeping the quadrajet. Rebuilt and tuned properly they make great torque, sip the fuel around town, and the secondaries are plenty big enough for most street engines.

[BigBlockOlds]

the update is: there is no update. there is news though: my wife & I are expecting a boy in late November! :thankyou: :smoke:

That's awesome man! Congratulations!

[BigBlockOlds]

Update? Is the body still up on the rotisserie?

[BuddyP]

Really cool build, always liked these cars.