LQ4 swap in a 68 camaro

[fireman68camaro]

I am sure that this has been posted before but I couldn't find it. Has anyone completed a truck engine swap before? I have a chance to buy one out of a 06 GMC cheap and was wondering about this swap vs. an ls1 or even an ls2, I wish to stay EFI if possible. Is there aftermarket support for us like there is the ls1 and 2? I.e. can I get a wire harness made for the engine bay that will match up to the cars? Lots of thoughts going on here, any help would be very helpful. Even links to articles or pics.

[Matt@Texas-Speed]

We can get you setup with a custom PCM and harness that is specifically made for your application. Not running EGR, AIR, etc? No problem, when they build the harness they won't add those wires in! The PCM will be flashed with the VIN number of your choice (or we can get one for you) and we can even put a start-up calibration into it to get you on the right path as far as the tune goes (for optimal results on heavily modified engines a dyno tune will be needed with wideband O2).

Shoot me a PM or e-mail and we can discuss your project and its needs/demands!

[WS6]

fireman, the truck motors are virtually the same as the car motors. There are some minor differences like intake and oil pans not working. However, if you follow the info on doing a car engine 90% of it pertains to you as well.

[Andrew McBride]

There is tons of info. on ls1tech.com about the swap. Go to the conversion and hybrid section.

[trapin]

LQ4 is a great bargin engine. If I had to do it again, for the savings I could live without the aluminum block. Here's one that Car Craft did. 480 horsepower for about $3800....what's not to love?

http://www.carcraft.com/projectbuild/116_0704_lq4_short_block/index.html

You just can't beat that. The LQ4 has more cubes too, 364 compared to the LS1's 346, and with the 4" bore you can run the new L92 heads on it. Stick in a nice cam, LS6 intake (if you can, or go aftermarket), L92 heads. That'll bring a lot of happiness to your life for not a lot of money.

[fireman68camaro]

Thanks for all of the responce I feel a lot better about the swap now than before. I will let you know what happens.

[trapin]

Yes....definitely keep us posted. This has me very intrigued.

With the L92 heads it might be the LS2 or LS3 intake that you have to run, check with LS1tech for that. Slap a nice ported Throttle Body on it with those L92 heads and I don't see how you're not over 500 horsepower. You could probably do it all for less than 5 bills, I know the L92 heads are not a lot of money.

[TA219]

I am putting a 5.3 in mine because i got it dirt cheap; i followed the same rules that were used when installing a LS1. There were a few small differences but overall the same parts made by vendors for the swap will work. Plus if you decide to go with a LS1 later your car will only need a new tune :)

[67SSDan]

If you end up getting it, definitely get on LS1tech and read up on the L92 / L76 combo. The L92 heads flow awesome right out of the box. The heads require the L76 intake... but it's dirt cheap. $556.19 for the intake, TB, fuel rails, and injectors. See below.
http://www.sdparts.com/product/12590123/IntakeManifoldAssemblyL76L92Car.aspx

Did I mention this combo is cheap? :)

Dan

[trapin]

Yep, proof positive that the L92 heads are the way to go. Car Craft did a follow up on their original story and slapped some L92 heads on the LQ4. 550 horsepower for less than 5 bills. Amazing.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0705_chevrolet_ls2_l92_cylinder_heads/index.html

[67SSDan]

<RANT> Why are these mags obsessed with putting carbs on LS motors? Lets see what the thing does with the L76 intake on it... </RANT>

Sorry... you can have your thread back now.

Dan


Yep, proof positive that the L92 heads are the way to go. Car Craft did a follow up on their original story and slapped some L92 heads on the LQ4. 550 horsepower for less than 5 bills. Amazing.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0705_chevrolet_ls2_l92_cylinder_heads/index.html

[fireman68camaro]

OK Well I have been working with this guy through my best friend, they work at the dealership together where the engine is. Today I find out that the Engine is a 07 Denali 6.2 with 498 miles on it. It was involved in an insurance swap out where the insurance swapped the engine due to a wreck, broke skirt on the piston and cracked rod all of which has been repaired. He has the front cover if I would like to put a carb on it but I still stand true I want an EFI engine for the car. So what do you guys think and I ask my original question about the aftermarket support, and do you think $1,100.00 is a good deal. Just the engine no harness, pcm or accessories.

[64_malib00]

if you don't want it i'll take it.
i want to experiment with all the truck goodies the magazines have been hyping as well.

[67SSDan]

LOL That's what I was going to say. The only down side is that you can spend a lot of money putting together the parts you're missing, BUT it's a 6.2 and only has 498 miles on it. That's pretty impressive. I'd be a little worried that the engine had such a catastrophic failure with so few miles on it. Did they say why they thought that happened?

Dig around and you can find all the parts you're missing used and save some $$$. As a perspective, I've been seeing 6.0L pullouts complete for about 1300 - 1500 and they have 30 - 70k miles on them.

Dan

[fireman68camaro]

The truck was in an accident and that’s how the damage happened, there was no internal failure the accident caused the damage. The insurance paid to swap the whole engine, so you know how dealerships work they had to order a short block and swapped the intake and accessories and such.

I was planning on changing the heads and intake set up any way so I am no to much worried about all of them. The only thing I am worried about is the accessories, I have yet to look but I hope march makes a front set for the engine. I am sure I will have to have a harness made up and I know I will need to get a PCM and tuned.

I know the guy who has it and I worked at the dealership, in charge of the whole side of the parts dept until I got hired at the Fire Department, so I trust the guys. I feel pretty good about it and am thinking I might just do it, just wanted to reassure myself that there was enough after market support.

[WS6]

There is plenty of aftermarket support. March and a few others make serpentine systems. There was a thread somewhere on here about it and people posted pictures. ATS-----> makes a nice one as does a company called synister products. Not a single one is less than $2000 though

[trapin]

fireman...stop biting your nails and go get that engine.

If you want fuel injection, than like Dan says...used you can find anywhere. Harness and PCM are no-brainers (aftermarket). Accessories? It would be impossible NOT to find the right accessories and brackets for this mill.

You better jump on it before someone else figures it out.

[Matt@Texas-Speed]

If you're looking at L92 heads, check out the PRC CNC ported L92 heads!! They've been showing some nice gains over the stock GM castings!!

http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=697&catid=40

[fireman68camaro]

Ok Ok I am biting the bullet and going to pick the mill up on Thursday. Thanks to all of you guys for the comments, I will get a pic or two of it posted as soon as I can.

[fireman68camaro]

I picked up the mill yesterday man o man is it ever nice.. Looks like new and is just waiting to be started.. I guess now I need to get off my tail and hang the all of the sheet medal so I can get rolling. Here is the official deal on the piston damage. The truck it was in was in a wreck where it came to rest on its side. When they put the truck back on its wheels, the tow truck driver tried to start it and bent a rod and that caused the skirt to break. But all has been repaired and ready to go! Did I mention he also included a front distributer drive cover for the engine? I don’t plan on using it but I thought that was cool, I want the l76 intake from GMPP. Grrrrrr More stuff to buy. O well tis the hobby. Keep you guys posted.
:firefire:

[trapin]

What did it end up setting you back? What did it come with?

So here's what you're looking at....

L92 heads from Texas Speed - $1100
Camshaft (your choice) - $400
L76 intake kit - $557

The harness, PCM, and all accessories (alternator, distributor, power steering pump, brackets) I would look for either on eBay or the for sale section at LS1tech.

Congratulations. You're going to have a serious tire smoker when it's all said in done.

[fireman68camaro]

Well I got the short block assembled with the heads factory front cover, pretty much the same as you would get if you went to the dealer ship and ordered a replacement L92 valve covers to oil pan. And like I said he also included the GMPP front cover for the distributer conversion. All for a grand total of $1,100.00, and he had all ready replaced the damaged rod and reassembled the engine.
I think I am going to put the GMPP front cover up for sale; I want the intake for it. What do you think about the ls6 hot cam for the engine?
My old man is looking out at his friend’s junk yard for front accessory drive parts.

[trapin]

What are the specs on the LS6 hot cam?

That's another thing you can comb the For Sale sections for over at LS1tech.com. I got my cam used for $250 from a member here on Pro-Touring.com. They're out there.

[fireman68camaro]

Grrrrr... I just thought of this the engine has the VVT, Hummm How to get around it? Any ideas? Or just leave it in and have fun with some thing diffrent? :confused:

[trapin]

That's a question for the folks at LS1tech. That one's beyond my knowledge.

[fireman68camaro]

I have been looking there and it looks like since its all so new there is not much info out yet... If any one else has any ideas please share.....

[67SSDan]

Ummm... sell it to me? :naughty:

In all seriousness...
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=854301&highlight=vvt
And
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714881&highlight=vvt

It looks like no one actually sells stuff as a kit to keep the VVT in place should you want to keep it. Mast apparently only sells whole engines.

Also, the L92 heads flow awesome right out of the box. Don't feel like you have to go get after market modded heads for this motor to be awesome. They aren't THAT much more... but if you're on a budget at all... This is of course without really knowing what you're after with the motor.

Good luck!
Dan

[fireman68camaro]

I found this information from www.gminsidenews.com (http://www.gminsidenews.com)

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-20160.html

This is only a little bit of the info on the page in this site.

Revised cylinder block

Aluminum-block Gen IV-design engines debuted as the LS2 in the 2005 Chevy Corvette and SSR, as well as the ’05 Pontiac GTO. The new Vortec truck engines share the basic design of these versions, but are engineered for the specialized needs of truck applications. Like the LS2, the new Vortec engines have a revised cylinder block design that features new, externally mounted knock sensors. They were moved from the valley area to enable Displacement On Demand technology and other advanced systems.

Some Gen IV Vortec engines use aluminum cylinder blocks, which offer reduced mass – an attribute that supports improved vehicle weight distribution and slightly improved fuel economy. The aluminum blocks are virtually identical to their iron counterparts, including a deep skirt design that incorporates cross-bolted main bearing caps and a structural oil pan. All engines, except the 6.2L L92, use a proven iron crankshaft design and highly durable reciprocating components. The high-performance 6.2L L92 uses a forged steel crankshaft.

The block for the 6.2L engine features a crankcase “windows” – vents that help improve bay-to-bay breathing. This reduces pumping losses and supports the high horsepower output of the high-performance engine. A new, 58X ignition system and a more powerful, E38 ECM are integrated on all engines.

The 58X ignition system uses a unique crankshaft wheel and sensors to provide the new, 32-bit E38 ECM with more immediate information on the crankshaft’s position during rotation. In turn, this allows the controller to adjust ignition timing with greater precision, which optimizes performance and economy. Engine starting also is more consistent.

Displacement On Demand

Some 5.3L and 6.0L engines are equipped with GM’s fuel-saving Displacement On Demand technology, which can temporarily shut down the combustion process of half the engine’s cylinders under certain driving conditions to save fuel. GM was the first manufacturer to offer this fuel-saving technology on trucks. On the new full-size SUVs, it works with other attributes, such as improved vehicle aerodynamics, to maintain GM’s fuel economy leadership in the segment.

A sophisticated engine controller determines when to deactivate cylinders, allowing the engine to maintain vehicle speed in lighter-load conditions such as highway cruising. The process is seamless and virtually imperceptible. When the cylinders are deactivated the engine effectively operates as a V-4, with alternate cylinders on each cylinder bank disabled. The engine returns to V-8 mode the instant the controller determines the vehicle speed or load requires additional power. The key to DOD’s efficiency and virtually imperceptible operation is a set of special two-stage hydraulic valve lifters, which allows the lifters of deactivated cylinders to operate without actuating the valves.

The valve lifters have inner and outer bodies, which normally operate as a single unit. When the engine controller determines cylinder deactivation conditions are optimal, the outer body moves independently of the inner body on the disabled cylinders’ lifters. The outer body moves in conjunction with camshaft actuation, but the inner body does not move, holding the pushrod in place. This prevents the pushrod from actuating the valve, thereby halting the combustion process. Solenoids in the engine lifter valley operate to deliver high-pressure oil to the switching lifters, activating a release pin to separate the inner and outer bodies. Oil circulation and pressure do not vary, regardless of the engine’s operational mode. Lifter design and pushrod length are the same for every cylinder, but camshaft lobe profiles differ for cylinders designated to be deactivated.

The engine’s electronic throttle control (ETC) also is used to increase manifold pressure in V-4 mode so that the engine can maintain a V-8 torque load.

Variable valve timing

Variable valve timing (VVT) is a standard feature on 6.0L and 6.2L engines; it helps optimize camshaft timing to improve low-rpm torque and high-rpm horsepower. The introduction of variable valve timing through the unique dual-equal cam phaser is the industry’s first application of VVT on a mass-produced V-8 cam-in-block engine. The unique dual-equal phaser adjusts the camshaft timing at the same rate for both the intake and exhaust valves.

The system incorporates a vane-type camshaft phaser that changes the angular orientation of the camshaft, thereby adjusting the timing of the intake and exhaust valves to optimize performance and economy, and help lower emissions. It offers infinitely variable valve timing in relation to the crankshaft. The cam phaser vane is attached to the camshaft on the front journal. As driving conditions warrant, the cam phaser system can reduce ignition timing at higher rpm levels to increase power. At lower rpm levels, torque is enhanced with increased timing.

This cam phaser feature was pioneered by GM and introduced on the new 3.5L and 3.9L V-6 engines in 2005 – a first for the use of variable valve timing on a cam-in-block engine design. As driving conditions warrant, the cam phasing system can reduce ignition timing at higher rpm levels to increase power. At lower rpm levels, torque is enhanced with increased timing.

Precise camshaft timing is the key to the variable valve timing system’s capability to optimize performance. Like the 58X ignition system, cam phasing is directed by the E38 ECM. It relies on data from a camshaft position sensor – a target ring with four equally spaced segments – that communicates the camshaft’s position quicker and more accurately than previous systems that used just a single segment. Also, a leaf spring-type tensioner is used on the timing chain to ensure precise tension.

The aluminum-block 6.0L version uses variable valve timing in conjunction with Displacement On Demand technology to bolster fuel economy. With cam phasing, Displacement On Demand technology allows the engine to run longer in fuel-saving four-cylinder mode, while producing instant V-8 power and response as soon as the driver calls for it.

[fireman68camaro]

I also found this from Delphi.

Gasoline Engine Management Systems
Delphi Variable Cam Phasers
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (javascript:popup('/popup/index.html?caption=<p>Delphi Variable Cam Phaser with Oil Control Valve</p>&image=https://delphi.com/shared/images/ppd/pwrtrn/gas_vlvvcp.jpg', 530, 530, 'resizable=yes');)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (javascript:popup('/popup/index.html?caption=<p>Delphi Variable Cam Phaser with Oil Control Valve</p>&image=https://delphi.com/shared/images/ppd/pwrtrn/gas_vlvvcp.jpg', 530, 530, 'resizable=yes');)

Delphi's Variable Cam Phaser (VCP) replaces the standard pulley, sprocket or gear in a gasoline engine's valve train. It enables the cam lobe (lift event) timing to crank shaft timing to be changed while the engine is operating, based on the parameters of the engine.
The cam lobe angular position, or phase relationship, is controlled by the internal vane mechanism of the VCP. Commands from the engine control module adjust the position of the oil control valve (See schematic.), which is mounted in the cylinder head and regulates engine oil flow to either side of the vanes.
Delphi's variable cam phasing system includes an oil control valve, which controls the flow of oil to advance or retard the camshaft position. Its high flow capacity provides fast phasing rates, and its integral filtration keeps it debris-free avoiding the need for a separate filter while providing increased packaging flexibility.
Variable cam phasing changes the timing of the valve lift event. It can be used to shift the intake cam, the exhaust cam, or both on dual overhead cam engines. This helps increase engine efficiency, improving idle stability while delivering more torque and horsepower. It also helps boost fuel economy and reduces hydrocarbon emissions.


Benefits

Optimized size versus torque for dynamic stability
Packaging flexibility on the engine is enabled by a standard rotor⁄stator pack in the VCP and a remote mounted oil control valve
Mechanical lock pin maintains default positions at low pressure
Low-restriction four-way control valve provides low pressure operation and continuously variable or two-position capability
Exhaust gas recirculation valve and air pump can be eliminated to help reduce system cost
System integration capability to assist customers with base engines and engine management system development and implementation
Typical Applications
Delphi Variable Cam Phasers can be applied to virtually any gasoline overhead cam engine to help broaden the torque curve, increase peak power at high rpm, reduce hydrocarbon and NOx emissions and help increase fuel economy. VCP benefits are application-specific and are derived by increasing volumetric efficiency, reducing pumping losses and in-cylinder internal dilution control associated with varying the cam timing.
Hydraulic System Schematic
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
This diagram shows the system-level mechanization of the variable cam phaser, oil control valve, control module, crank sensor and cam sensor to the engine.

Phaser Position
Control Valve
IntakeExhaustValve OverlapOffRetardAdvanceMinimum50%Intermediate: Flow is restricted to "hold" position.100%AdvanceRetardMaximumThis chart indicates the control logic between the Variable Cam Phaser and the Oil Control Valve.

Delphi produces a wide variety of Variable Cam Phasers and Oil Control Valves to meet individual customer requirements.
Performance Advantages
Delphi's variable cam phasing technology achieves a balance of response times, torque capacity and optimal packaging. Further optimization can be achieved to meet application-specific goals. The construction of the cam phaser and the oil control valve permits either two-position or continuously variable operation. Advantages of the Delphi’s variable cam phasing technology include:

Intermediate Lock Pin feature enables improved fuel economy and performance in dual independent cam phasing applications
Flexible packaging and compact size for pulley, sprocket or gear drive
Optimized design and process to provide low cost components
System-level support with integration of software, and capability to supply engine hydraulics designs and control algorithms, including diagnosticsDelphi is a leading manufacturer of cam phasers and has received numerous patents for these technologies. Delphi can tailor cam phasing systems to help achieve the optimal balance of efficiency and power. Implementation is simplified because of the vane configuration, which reduces mass and contributes to packaging flexibility.
Delphi manufactures cam phasing systems in North America, Europe and Asia, with additional product development and customer support facilities worldwide to enable exceptional on-time delivery.
The Delphi Advantage
Delphi has more than 75 years of experience in valve train systems and its high-quality conventional valve train products have earned industry-wide respect. Further, Delphi's deep understanding of the combustion process and vast research and development capabilities have enabled continuing innovation. Delphi is also a leader in engine management systems, so whether a customer chooses a complete system or an individual component, Delphi's systems expertise is built into every product. Delphi can help manufacturers achieve higher levels of performance and regulatory compliance.

Delphi Variable Cam Phasers - 263k (https://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/pwrtrn/gas_vlvvcp.pdf)

[BossaNova]

What's going on with the LQ4? Haven't heard anything in a while.

-Mark