1966 GTO L92 / 6L80E / Street Challenge Project

[oestek]

We've got another new project starting in the V8TV shop - an L92 / 6L80E powered 1966 Pontiac GTO.

This 1966 GTO has seen better days, and this intro video explains the project details from start to finish, including the crazy timeline. It kinda goes like this: Install GM 6.2 liter L92 V8 and 6-speed 6L80E tranmission, install Air Ride Technologies Street Challenge air suspension system, upgrade the wheels, tires, and brakes. Drive on Hot Rod Power Tour. Disassemble entire car, replace quarter panels, repair holes in trunk floor, window ledges, fenders, and doors, paint, reassemble, and take to SEMA 2008. Whew!

As always, we'll be bringing you every step of the build on video.

Intro video: http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/485/1/

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/DSCN0030-1.png


(http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/485/1/)

[Rubes]

Sounds cool Kevin.

[Code Red]

good luck

[andrewb70]

Nice project Kevin. I would reconsider using the 6L80E. I know it sounds cool to have a 6 speed automatic, but it will be completely worthless with its 4 something first gear. Get yourself a 4L80E instead. You will be a much happier camper. Just my 2 cents.

Andrew

[oestek]

That's a good point, Andrew... we've just gotten into this one this past week, and we're still evaluating the driveline situation. The owner alread supplied and really digs the 6-speed idea, but you're right, the first gear ratio is sick. These transmissions will do 2nd gear starts when not matted, and you could program out the 1st gear all together, but then it's alot of work for a 5-speed. I'm also aware of Steevo's animocity against them, and that his trick Shrifter isn't compatible. it may change. I've driven the trucks and the Corvette with the 6, and they're cool to drive. I think the 'Vette's got a 2.73:1 rear gear and a 26.9" tire, and 1st isn't that bad. I'd appreciate any input on this, though!

[andrewb70]

If image is an issue than surely having a very visible paddle shifter would be more "cool" than having an invisible extra 2 gears.

Andrew

[ProdigyCustoms]

All the chatter I read till now was that it was impossible to make the 6L80 work? How are you going to control it?

[oestek]

I've been reading the same chatter, Frank. John Spears at Speartech claims to have had a late-model Silverado with an LS1 and a 6L80E driving around for months with no issues. He programmed it, and now he's marketing a conversion package including a MAF, throttle, harness, and his tuning to do these swaps. However, other than John, I've not heard of much success elsewhere. We're getting the harness and stuff from Speartech. Fingers are crossed. If it's not possible, or requires an extreme act of God to make work, we'll chat with the owner about a 4L80E. We're already lining up plans B, C, D, and E in case of major issues.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I will be watching closely. You guys are really doing a lot of cool projects, this sounds like another one. The dreaded DEADLINE! UGH! Keep us updated.

[oestek]

Thanks, Frank... you might be getting some pretty panicked phone calls from me on this one... as I said in the intro video, I'm more than a little scared. But that's how we find out what we can do, right?

[hectore3]

How about any aftermarket information on adapting the 6L80E to legacy engines? Like traditional Pontiac,Buick,Oldsmobile V-8's.

[oestek]

We'll talk to some trans manufacturers and suppliers about this.

[andrewb70]

How about any aftermarket information on adapting the 6L80E to legacy engines? Like traditional Pontac,Buick,Oldsmobile V-8's.

Once again, why would you want to? The 6L80E has a really low first gear to move big trucks.

Here is some good information:

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/stsfaq/tsb/data/tsb/05-07-30-023.pdf

Andrew

[oestek]

They do come in trucks, but those are all car apps listed in that sheet - the STS, XLR-V, Corvette... they are pretty cool to drive with the engine braking-like feel and the shift strategies.

[SPECWARSQUID]

I'm really looking forward to this. Good Luck

Your Goat looks familiar for some reason.:cool:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/01/pictures061-1.jpg

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[Code Red]

I'm really looking forward to this. Good Luck

Your Goat looks familiar for some reason.:cool:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/01/pictures061-1.jpg

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

and it still looks that way ;-)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/100_3350-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/100_3352-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/100_3356-1.jpg

[oestek]

Wow, that does look familiar. Hopefully the bodywork is a little tighter on yours than this one... we're in for it when we tear it apart!

[oestek]

We yanked the original engine from the GTO's nose, and later found it to be a date-code correct 1966 389 block. The multiple coats of aerosol paint make it look more like a cosmetic resto than a mechanical rebuild, but we didn't tear it down to see. Now we're focusing on fitting the new 6.2.

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/491/1/

[oestek]

Tonight, we bolted the Street & Performance engine plates and oil pan to the L92 V8 and 6L80E six-speed automatic combination. We were pleasantly suprised to see that it almost fits the car without modification, but we will need to do some more test fitting to be sure.

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/492/43/

[Steve Chryssos]

The steep first gear is not a problem, since the TCU has the ability to skip it or dispense with it quickly.

Animosity? Whoa! I hold no animosity towards the 6L80--just a wait and see perspective based on input from GM, Compushift, Powertrain Control Solutions and others in the know. If a GM Powertrain Engineer says "Don't do it" or "Good luck", I stand up and take notice. The Shrifter is just an input device. It doesn't care what it is connected to. 12 volts, ground, common--It can be easily adapted. The paddle shifter is not the problem. The potential for sad hot rodders with shredded clutches is the problem.

Speartech has one running for a few months. Great. I'd like to see a few more months. Then I'd like to see what happens if significant engine mods and aggressive driving are applied. Then we would need to wait a few more months. Even simple changes like tire diameter could (could) have a negative affect on transmission longevity unless re-calibration is applied. The harness is the easy part. Calibration of the transmission' clutch to clutch shift algorithm is the challenge. Ask Mark Bowler and John at Speartech about re-calibration. Then compare their feedback and share it with us. If you will be moving forward, keep variables to an absolute minimum (i.e. no boost).

I'm making people aware of the risks. I'm sorry if that is being misconstrued as animosity.

So I will reiterate for emphasis: Your hot rod is different than my hot rod--is different than the next hot rod. Calibration across a variety of vehicle and engine combinations is the challenge.

[oestek]

I understand, Steve. I apologize if animosity was the wrong word choice, and your right, a 12 volt trigger is universal. I must have misinterpreted a posting you made somewhere else. You're point on the tune is the major issue today, that the cal has to be dead-nuts or you can experience problems with the setup. We hope that we can benefit from more info as others develop solutions... John Spears claims to be able to reflash the TCM to match the tires and gears, and that would hopefully make it work. We'll see. We are keeping a stock configuration on the engine to minimize variables with the tune.

Thanks -

- KO

[oestek]

I wonder... if the trans is that sensitive to tire size, etc., if all the trucks at SEMA with 24" - 36" wheels are all going to grenade their 6L80s. I wonder if anyone has heard of problems?

[andrewb70]

I wonder... if the trans is that sensitive to tire size, etc., if all the trucks at SEMA with 24" - 36" wheels are all going to grenade their 6L80s. I wonder if anyone has heard of problems?

It has to be sensitive to tire size. Even the older engine ECUs (LS1 type) are sensitive to tire size because one of the inputs to the ECU comes from the VSS. By changing to a taller tire you will change the VSS signal as compared to the real speed of the vehicle. I would say that the VSS is even more important to transmission control than to engine control.

I still vote fot the 4L80E.

Andrew

[Steve Chryssos]

Thanks. Definitely not animosity. Im more eager than anyone to see packaged 6L solutions. Tire diameter should not a major hurdle--just an example. Better examples of hurdles are as follows:
-Camshaft profile
-Torque converter
-Power adder
-vehicle mass
-PASM
-Personal shift preferences

We all want to swap cams, heads, converters and the like. Just as with any trans swap, it is not possible to discuss the 6L's without touching these subjects. Hot Rod did the first article on the 6L's. As far as I'm concerned, they did the reader a huge injustice by ignoring calibration altogether and focusing instead on nut an bolt issues such as transmission mounts, dimensions, part numbers, etc. V8TV has an excellent opportunity to fix that. Don't just plug it in and go. Help us all by exploring the algorithm and calibration issues in detail. Research clutch to clutch transmissions and your head will spin. I have--and smoke was pouring out of my ears. It's sophisticated technology--way more complex than a mechatronic manual that only needs to finesse ONE clutch. Step gear (PG, TH350, TH400, 200, 700, 4L) is a piece of cake by comparison.

Just know that you are one of the guinea pigs and be cautious with language regarding results. I'm sure you can plug it in and go. Speartech is one of the sharpest companies in the industry. But manufacturers know that there is a big distinction between custom fitting parts work in one vehicle and selling a packaged solution that can be shipped in a box to a wide range of enthusiasts.

That's prudence--not animosity.

As for the 4L's, Mark Bowler is close to completing conversions that will turn 4 speeds into 6 speeds. For today, I have more faith in adapting a step gear six speed (4L) than a clutch to clutch six speed (6L)

[andrewb70]

Kevin,

Save the stock exhaust manifold bolts. They are absolutely THE best for using with headers. They have a nice wide flange under the head of the bolt which spreads the load over a wider area. Also check out the tip of the bolts. They are slightly tapered which makes it almost impossible to cross thread them. Which is really nice when working with aluminum heads.

Andrew

[oestek]

Thanks Steve -

You're right, we're going in to this with a "guinea pig" mentality... we're not making any claims that this will be successful... we're just willing to try it. I know what you mean by the technology being enough to confuse... I've been through some of the papers myself and it was like being back in high school history... nodding off and all.

We know it's not a plug-and-play, and we're aware of the calibration challenges. I don't even know if we can get the trans programmed locally. Spears says they can do it at their place, but as you know, the TCM is in the trans, and I ain't tearing this one open to get it and send it to him. Another hurdle.

As for the VSS, I've seen plenty of cars with miscalibrated transmissions regarding wheels and gears, most with engine mods, but they just act poorly, not grenade. That's our fear here, that the bad cal will break stuff, not just shift wrong. Of course, we want it to do everything right.

We won't know until we try. As Steve knows, and any real hot rodder knows, there are no victories without losses.

Thanks for the tip on the bolts, Andrew - they are nice with the "speed start" rounded ends and the nice flange. And we'll keep you in the 4L80E column. It's all good.

- KO

[Z06killinSBF]

Now is this show strictly net or is it on tv?

[Steve Chryssos]

.....As for the VSS, I've seen plenty of cars with miscalibrated transmissions regarding wheels and gears, most with engine mods, but they just act poorly, not grenade.....


Ahh, but you've seen mis-calibrated step gear transmissions--not clutch to clutch transmissions like the 6L or Mercedes Benz 7G. As for this project, I don't think you'll grenade it given that you are installing it behind a stock LS engine in a 3500lb car. But to use an exagerated example for clarification, what happens if you put the stock C6 vette calibration into a 1400lb T-bucket with a hairy solid roller cam and slicks? To eliminate variables, let's say the motor in the T-bucket does not meet or exceed the transmission's torque capacity. It just has a radically different power band and "more" power.

Surely, the calibration cannot be the same as a bone stock C6 vette? What converter does one specify? How about a 69 Camaro with a ZZ572? Same calibration?

The sniff-trail starts with phone calls to the sharp controller manufacturers like Mike Hoy at Compushift or Russell at Powertrain Control Solutions--not the harness guy.

[andrewb70]

For all the above reason I am actually in the manual transmission camp. LOL

However, I do love a good technical challenge.

Andrew

[oestek]

Are converters even available for this thing? Your points are exactly why we're not changing the combination at all.

V8TV was on television, is now on the web, but there may be a new network deal in the works. Can't say right now. At any rate, I think the web is the best way to let us do what we like and be able to leave enough detail in the show to satisfy what needs to be said.

Manuals are cool, too!

[Steve Chryssos]

Converters can be built, but they, once again, affect the calibration. Yeah, make every effort to match the donor platforms specs and it shouldn't grenade. Unfortunately we won't learn much about adaptation that way. But it's the right place to start. Beat the crap out of that baseline application and then the test needs to be repeated with variables. Who knows... Maybe the damn thing is so good that can adapt itself to 10 pounds of boost.

It's all fun and games until you try to charge people money for the conversion. Then you need to have every "i" dotted. I'm sure that there are a dozen conversions under way around the country. We'll wait and see.

[SPECWARSQUID]

Hey Kevin,

What's up with the Valve covers on the original engine? I thought 389s had a "dog-house" hump on one end of them? Those to me look like 400 covers. Has it got later 400 heads on it? Or am I just seeing things wrong?

Those 389s are total boat-anchors you shouldn't clutter up your shop with one of those. Let me take it off your hands, I'll give it good home in my 66. :smoke:

Also a couple questions. What is the build date of the GTO and the plant it was built at? Just curious to see where it is relation to my 66.

Thanks


Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[oestek]

They do look like 400 covers, aftermarket stuff. The build date, if I remember correctly, is June of '66 on the block. I think the car was built in Fremont. I'll post all the numbers and let you take a look. I'll check the head stampings later. I think the block is correct for the car, so the owner wants to keep it together.

But if not, you're the first call for the "anchor".

[victionone]

Steve wants the 6L to work more than anyone else, and we had a long chat about this at SEMA. He is being a pal and giving us the information he knows.

I'm planning on a 6L90 also, and am glad to see someone else ahead of me! I have been real hesitant about ordering one to complete my drivetrain. I spoke with John@Speartech and he assures me that it will work and uses the convertor that is included with the new transmission. The only requirements are a 58x wheel and a E38 ECU. He has a few customer cars going and even swapped a new GM crate LS2 and 6L90 into a truck of his to prove it. Steve should give him a call and put him on blast with the questions for us. :idea:

[67SSDan]

You going to be swapping on an L76 intake, or leaving the truck intake?

Dan

[oestek]

The truck intake is ugly and we're thinking that it probably won't clear the hood at this point, but we're going to leave it on until the whole engine and trans is in the car and running, especially if it does clear. Then we'll change it later to the L76 if there's time or we really need to do it for clearance.

[oestek]

We're open to suggestions on the shifter... there is a small stub under that yellow cap we discovered to be the shift linkage connector.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

So I'm assuming we'll need something from a Corvette or a floor-shift Caddy, seeing that all the trucks are column shift, right?

[oestek]

Wow, this is a huge transmission.

Here's some shots of another test fit from under the car... the top of the trans is 1/4 inch from touching the floor of the car. The trans has to go up at least another 4.5 inches to bring the bottom of the pan to 1" below the frame. Then, the output shaft is up higher than usual, so the trans tunnel and the drive shaft tunnel have to be cut out to make room. Next comes possible issues with the engine / trans angle... the engine may have to go up in the front to allow for the trans to pitch down towards the rear axle, making the engine / hood clearance too tight. Hmmm...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
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[neki67]

As for the 4L's, Mark Bowler is close to completing conversions that will turn 4 speeds into 6 speeds.

Steve,

care to share a bit more info on that subject?

My apologies for HJ-ing this thread, but good luck with the 6L project! After seeing the pics you definately need some good fortune and that's just the mechanical site of it . . . . .

[victionone]

Have you considered differerent mounts and pan? BRP sells mounts and a pan that they claim will clear a T56 and 4L60 with no tunnel of frame mods. Looking at their pictures I think the pan is from a Hummer H3 Alpha with the 5.3L V8.

[BlindSideCustoms]

hey i saw you were pulling it with a colorado, how good does it pull a car/trailer? i was thinking of doing disks in the back of my 4.3 xtreme and pulling a trailer with it just didnt know how well it would stop it/pull it. btw sweet project.

[trapin]

Pretty sweet, Kev. What a great idea for a build. Refresh my memory, what is the L92 used in? Thanks.

[SPECWARSQUID]

hey i saw you were pulling it with a colorado, how good does it pull a car/trailer? i was thinking of doing disks in the back of my 4.3 xtreme and pulling a trailer with it just didnt know how well it would stop it/pull it. btw sweet project.

While i'm sure Codered will chime in here. That Colorado had no problems towing my 66 Goat and I never noticed any issues with braking while wee moved it but like towing anything we gave ourselves plenty of room for error when stopping.

In fact that Colorado towed a 1967 Corvair over the Virginian and West Virginian Appalachian Mountains without any problems on stock discs and drums.

OK Sorry for the Hijack Kevin


Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[Code Red]

hey i saw you were pulling it with a colorado, how good does it pull a car/trailer? i was thinking of doing disks in the back of my 4.3 xtreme and pulling a trailer with it just didnt know how well it would stop it/pull it. btw sweet project.


While i'm sure Codered will chime in here. That Colorado had no problems towing my 66 Goat and I never noticed any issues with braking while wee moved it but like towing anything we gave ourselves plenty of room for error when stopping.

In fact that Colorado towed a 1967 Corvair over the Virginian and West Virginian Appalachian Mountains without any problems on stock discs and drums.

OK Sorry for the Hijack Kevin


Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

Sorry to hijack Kevin

Blind: overall the 3.5 didnt do to bad but I would prefer better brakes on it but the 66 towing was just local. I trailored my 89 z24 form dayton to indy and back with out too much issue.

the corvair was done on a dolly so not much strain there

to trailor bigger cars I would recommend beefing up the rear axle (i'm running the lowest set 3.46 would rather have the 3.73) and brakes I did have to give myself some distance for braking

[gearheads78]

You guys are nuts towing a full size car with a small truck. After towing with a 3/4 ton I don't even want to go back to a 1/2 ton.

[oestek]

Thanks, Tony - the L92 came from a 2007 Yukon.


Pretty sweet, Kev. What a great idea for a build. Refresh my memory, what is the L92 used in? Thanks.

[oestek]

While i'm sure Codered will chime in here. That Colorado had no problems towing my 66 Goat and I never noticed any issues with braking while wee moved it but like towing anything we gave ourselves plenty of room for error when stopping.

In fact that Colorado towed a 1967 Corvair over the Virginian and West Virginian Appalachian Mountains without any problems on stock discs and drums.

OK Sorry for the Hijack Kevin


Shay


_____________
Semper Fortis

No worries on the hijack, I've seen people pull big loads with small trucks before and wondered how it went myself...

[oestek]

We've test fitted, measured, scratched our heads, tested again, looked at the calendar, scratched our heads again... and we've determined that the 6L80E, while cool, is not going to fit this car in the timeframe required. The trans is just too big, and the amount of surgery needed is going to take a long time, and then it would take just as long to un-do if the trans didn't live up to expectations.

So we talked to Mark Bowler at Bowler Performance Transmissions about his upcoming project... a collaboration with Bowler, Twist Machine, and Gear Vendors to create an 8-speed 4L65E auto that can be paddle-shifted (is Shrifted a word?) up and down through 8 gears. Sounds cool to us, and it actually fits in the car! So the story changes a little, but moves 2 gears ahead!

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/502/43/

[Rubes]

...8-speed 4L65E auto that can be paddle-shifted (is Shrifted a word?) up and down through 8 gears...
So Life really does imitate art. Now when you see a movie with a chase scene and the cars are constantly shifting at 100miles an hour down the highway...it will be real...LOLOL

Sound like fun Kevin!!

[oestek]

That's funny Rubes - I just watched a CSI NY where they rigged up a Harley on some sort of roller to get a street luge up to 120 mph (you know, typical NYC cop stuff) - but they ran the Hog up to like 126 without shifting once!

[6'9"Witha69]

That's funny Rubes - I just watched a CSI NY where they rigged up a Harley on some sort of roller to get a street luge up to 120 mph (you know, typical NYC cop stuff) - but they ran the Hog up to like 126 without shifting once!I pointed that out to my wife when it aired last week. Too funny.

[SixSpeed454SS]

Kevin,

Cool project. It looks/sounds like the 6 speed auto is a bad idea. The Bowler 8 speed sounds better, but what about doing a T56 in the car? It'll take some fabbing of the trans tunnel, but it'd be much cooler with a manual trans.

I met you on the 2002 Power Tour. I have the 454SS truck with a Lingenfelter 461, T56, & Corvette wheels. Not sure if you'd remember me (I vaguely remember you filming my truck on a highway in Michigan & when you directed me to go flying past, my truck was starved for fuel - the guage was on empty - it was quite embarassing). I also have a '66 GTO that I'm restoring now. I'm doing a mild restifying, as my car is a 59,000 mile Tripower 4spd with absolutely no rust on it. Too nice to cut up & it also has some sentimental histroy behind it.

Good luck on the project.

[oestek]

Hey Tod,

Good to hear from you again. I bet I'd remember your truck better with a bigger picture.

The 6-speed manual is a very cool trans, but the guy who owns this car wants an auto, and I've had experience in the Gear Vendors Corvette with the 4L60... it was tons of fun. You can shift it if / when you want, and do nothing but mash the pedal and let it do the work if you don't want to shift yourself. Nice combo!

[SixSpeed454SS]

Hey Tod,

Good to hear from you again. I bet I'd remember your truck better with a bigger picture.

Here ya go:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[oestek]

Ah yes, I really like your truck! It's good to see a "454SS" with some real power and not just a cool look. You still driving it?

[SixSpeed454SS]

Ah yes, I really like your truck! It's good to see a "454SS" with some real power and not just a cool look. You still driving it?

I drive the wheels off of it. It runs 12.67 in the 1/4 as you see it in the pics. I did the complete 2007 Power Tour in it (2700 miles total). Lots of fun. Looking to go 11s, but don't want the hassle of a cage. May just put nitrous on it. It'll probably run low 12s on slicks as is.

[oestek]

Very cool. It had a great sound, too, if I remember correctly!

[SixSpeed454SS]

Very cool. It had a great sound, too, if I remember correctly!

Back then, it had manifolds & 2.25" exhaust with flowmasters on it (very poorly made exhaust from about 10 years previous). Now it has 3" mandrel bent stainless to the rear roll pan with a Magnaflow X pipe, heavily modified 2" Hooker Super Comps, 3" Flowmasters, etc. It sounds pretty damn good (of course I'm biased).

[cad]

I drive the wheels off of it. It runs 12.67 in the 1/4 as you see it in the pics. I did the complete 2007 Power Tour in it (2700 miles total). Lots of fun. Looking to go 11s, but don't want the hassle of a cage. May just put nitrous on it. It'll probably run low 12s on slicks as is.
I dont think you need a roll bar until 11.45 in the qtr in the 2008 NHRA rule book....sorry if this is off topic....I dont want a roll bar in my 68, so I am straddling the 11.50 mark myself...
Clark

[SixSpeed454SS]

I dont think you need a roll bar until 11.45 in the qtr in the 2008 NHRA rule book....sorry if this is off topic....I dont want a roll bar in my 68, so I am straddling the 11.50 mark myself...
Clark

I believe 11.49 & faster for a cage

Sorry to get this thread off topic. Let's see some more GTO stuff!

[oestek]

We received our new 4L65E transmission from Bowler Performance Transmissions the other day, and now the progress on the GTO continues...

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/542/43/

[SPECWARSQUID]

About dang time Kev!!!

Stop starv'n us Goat-Junkies :razz:

Nice work, should be fun when done.


Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[oestek]

Yeah, I know... progress has been a little slower than expected... but things are getting faster now! I wish we could drive this thing today!

[Karch]

Rats, I just read that you are scrapping the 6L80e.

I am about to buy a Trailblazer SS, and wanted to add one of these, at dealer cost, to the deal for the future, as I don't care for the 4L70.

But, GV may be a good option for me as well, down the road.

My other hope/thought was to install the 6 gear into my 65 Pontiac.

Oh well...

[oestek]

To those looking to swap in a new Variable Valve Timing engine into your hot rod project, keep an eye on hood clearance, because the VVT hardware adds some length to the block, making accessories a little tricky. Here's what we did to make them work on the GTO.

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/560/43/

[Young Gun]

just watched all the videos...looks awsome!!!!

[oestek]

Thanks Young Gun! We're pretty excited about this project.

We zipped the body off the frame, had the frame media blasted, and boxed it up in preparation for the Air Ride Street Challenge suspension system. Pretty soon the bottom half starts going back together!

http://www.v8tvshow.com/forum/index.php/topic,216.msg1199.html#msg1199

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/l_bec2531f702f5afa705837bf8bb7f95c-1.gif

[oestek]

The GTO's chassis got a bath in the new Eastwood Ceramic Chassis Black. We like the satin finish, and hope it has the chemical and chip-resistance for a driver. It's a 2-part catalyzed chemical that cures up hard. Spraying is pretty simple, although it seemed to like to run just a little if you "pound" it on.

Video: http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/566/1/

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[gearheads78]

Why did you not use the Rustoleum you did on the Olds? Just wondering?

[oestek]

We like to try different coatings on different projects to see how they stand up. We've primarily used PPG DP90, Rustoleum Satin, Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black, and now the Eastwood Ceramic. The current DP90 isn't quite what it used to be due to federal regulations, and it doesn't seem to like UV exposure. Good old Rustoleum satin.. we actually blend a little flat and semi together... comes out looking pretty nice and stands up to abuse, but it takes forever to dry. The Eastwood Ceramic dries fairly quickly being a 2-part system, it looks great, and it seems to be pretty tough so far.

[Young Gun]

great update! when do you expect to have the air ride installed?

[oestek]

We're cutting that video now... the main suspension is in, then the body goes back on and the electronics and AirPod go in. It's pretty slick stuff.

[oestek]

We decided to go with a Mast Motorsports M90 ECM and harness and it arrived today... very cool stuff. They incorporated some cool tricks to make it a clean install... we'll have pics and video soon.

[Young Gun]

damn! i thought there was gonna be a new video...i got a excited haha

[oestek]

We've got several coming... but we're also trying to make this a driver for the Power Touir, driving in 25 days (or less)... we're slipping on a quick basecoat-only 2-tone paint scheme for the Tour just to have fun with.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

what kind of power you guys shooting for outta that engine?

[oestek]

For this first go-around, we're keeping the engine stock, but with the Mast tune and headers just to get it running and driving. Who knows, it may get a cam and a few goodies later this summer, though.

[oestek]

Quick shot of the "temporary" paint scheme... it's going to get a silver stripe at the color break, and then it stays un-cleared for the Power Tour and the CC Nats. Then it comes back here to have the quarters and floors ripped out and a "real" paint job!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/DSCN0569s-1.jpg

[oestek]

After seeing the Air Ride Technologies 1966 Chevelle thrash the autocross at the Run Through The Hills III event, we were sold on the outstanding handling AND smooth ride of the Air Ride Street Challenge suspension system. This time, we build the front 1/2 of this system on our '66 GTO. We're still pushing to get this car on the road for the Hot Rod Power Tour in less than a month.

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/579/43/

[Young Gun]

awsome update! very nice!

[andrewb70]

Kevin,

I like the progress that you are making on the GTO. I have a couple of suggestion and a concern. When installing lower control arm bolts, it is always handy to slide the bolts from the inside out. If you were to ever service the car at a later date, when everything is put together, you may have a issue with the front control arm bolts hitting the tie rods or drag link. If you have the nuts on the outside of the control arms, you simple remove the nuts and slide the bolts out from inside the arms.

On the upper control arms you used regular grade 8 bolts. There are no issues with the strength, but I would suggest getting new GM hardware. The stock bolts are knurled right below the head. This makes life SO much easier when you get the car aligned since you will not need to have a wrench on the outside of the frame with the control arm, and inner fender well in the way.

Now for the concern. This is no way meant to be against Air Ride. I have seen other companies do similar things with coil over kits and in my opinion they have an issue as well. The spring obviously is there to support the weight of the vehicle. On a stock setup the spring mounts in a big pocket in the lower control arm as well as a big, wide, heavy gauge pocket in the frame. The shock goes through the middle of the spring and bolts to the frame. The weight of the vehicle is supported by the spring which spreads to load to the frame over a large surface area, namely the spring pocket.

With the Shock Wave all of the weight is now being supported by that single stud that bolts to the frame. I have no doubt that the stud is huge and perfectly adequate to support the car. What concerns me is the frame mounting location. Where as the weight of the car was spread over a large area before, it is now being concentrated on the shoulder of the Shock Wave. The stock shock mounting location was never designed to hold any weight. There is very little force acting on that location in a stock setup.

No doubt the Air Ride cars are driven hard and maybe this a non issue, but I would never be comfortable installing something like that on my car. Once again, this is not against Air Ride, there are several coil over conversion kits on the market that use the same design, and I don't like them either. Just my opinion.

Keep up the good work.

Andrew

[oestek]

Hey Andrew,

You've got some good points. You'll see on the lower control arm bolts in an upcoming clip that we're mounting a new Steeroids rack on this car, and it attaches through the front lower control arm holes, from the front through the rear of the front mount. This time, however, the bolts could be put in either way, and it should be considered for clearance like you suggest.

As for the knurled original style upper retaining bolts, I asked our local alignment guy what he preferred before we built the '69 Chevelle last year. He says you usually have to put a wrench on them regardless because the knurls / holes are corroded and can slip on old cars when tightening them down. We may change them over to the GM style if I get a set in time. Another good point.

Your concern is legit for the Shock Waves mounting through the shock mount holes. I've been scratching my head over this one as well, because you're right, the original spring surface is like 5 inches and now it's down to an inch and a half or so. Plus the fact that the front of the car is supported by the lower Shock Wave bolt, and not the spring in the lower control arm pocket.

However, I've not seen or heard of a failure in this area. Bret and the Air Ride crew are currently fielding alot of questions about their spindles in another thread, maybe we should ask them about it. We're making sure to install their parts in accordance with their instructions, but it's cool that we have the opportunity to ask some questions here.

Thanks for the input, and please keep it coming!

- KO

[MuscleRodz]

Where's the fuel tank???? :naughty: I assume it showed without issue.

[oestek]

It's coming, Mike... with the fuel system install clip. It's very cool. Hang tight, bro.

[MuscleRodz]

It's coming, Mike... with the fuel system install clip. It's very cool. Hang tight, bro.Just making sure it was alright since you had not returned my calls. Like me you are probably wondering where in your schedule sleep is suppose to be appropiated right now.

[oestek]

I thought I called you... it must have been one of those transcendental moments where you mentally do stuff but not physically...

[MuscleRodz]

I thought I called you... it must have been one of those transcendental moments where you mentally do stuff but not physically...my wife accuses me of doing that regularly.:banghead:

[oestek]

We're kind of jumping ahead and posting nightly video updates as we push to get the GTO ready for the Power Tour. We'll be posting more of the detailed installs later, but for now, we'll post these quick updates, as we've got about 18 days to make this a driver!

Video: http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/580/43/

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[oestek]

New 2005 GTO seats went in today...

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/582/43/

[55chevyman]

how many inches is it from the floor to the top of the seat bottom?

[oestek]

I can measure that when we re-install the seats... we're running wires under them now. It's pretty comfortible with good head room, and the bottom of the seat supports the back of your legs without too much push.

I'll post the measurements in a couple days.

[oestek]

We finished the back 1/2 of the GTO's Magnaflow exhaust kit off by running it through the bumper in place of the original reverse lights... came out pretty trick. We'll get to the reverse lights later!

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/583/43/
__________________

[Larry Callahan]

Tighting up the hanger bolt so it hangs up tight. Classic

I love it. LOL!

[Young Gun]

haha fun update...and that looks awsome! cant wait to see it done!

[oestek]

Tighting up the hanger bolt so it hangs up tight. Classic

I love it. LOL!

Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated.

Thanks again for your help Larry!

- KO

[gto406]

Hi Kevin, '66 looks awesome...

I had a quick question about the Eastwood ceramic chassis paint.

Do you know whether that would spray over an existing coating, like a Rustoleum? Would you need to seal the existing paint (with a primer) before laying on the Eastwood black?

Any thoughts appreciated, as I have been looking at the Chassis black (for a more correct sem-gloss finish) and didn't find much info on Eastwoods site.

Keep the updates rolling in, and good luck on PT.

Cheers,
Brian.
'72 GTO.

[oestek]

Hey Brian -

I don't know if the chemicals in the Eastwood Ceramic would argue with existing coatings... I guess it would depend on how hard the existing is, what the substrate used for a solvent, etc. They recommend their 2k primer, which may provide some sealer effects, but I don't know for sure. If your rustoleum has been cured for several months, it's probably hard as a rock. This means that it would probably stand up to the Ceramic from a chemical reaction standpoint, but it may not provide the best surface to adhere to. Eastwood has a tech line to call... either try that or maybe post in their tech forums. I do think the ceramic has the look you're after.. stock and satiny.

Thanks!

- KO

[gto406]

Hello Kevin!

I will definitely be going for the Eastwood ceramic. Eastwood mentioned (on their web-site) that this can be sprayed over other surfaces (that have cured).

I will be double checking that with their tech-line prior to ordering 8^)

Thanks again for your reply,
Brian.

[oestek]

No problem, Brian - just be sure to have clean grounds on your chassis when you build it... the ceramic is not a conductor!

- KO

[oestek]

we're in the last week before the power tour, and it's going to be close as usual. I just want to publically thank Shaun, Josh, and the whole crew at Mast Motorsports for all their weekend and after hours tech support. We encountered a few hurdles, but they have really gone out of their way to help. Thanks guys!

[oestek]

The good news is that the GTO finally came to life! The L92 sounds really sweet. We're thrashing to get some brake issues fixed and waiting for tires, but we should be driving it today. Lots more video coming!

[oestek]

The GTO is finally as finished as it's gonna get for Power Tour... here's a couple snap shots. Lots more video to come on the build and driving it... hard!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[oestek]

And thanks to Larry Callahan for loaning us his wheels in a pinch, and to Frank Serafine for shipping them!

[Larry Callahan]

Wow! Very nice!!! Glad to be able to help out. I think the wheels look better on that then they did on my Camaro. LOL!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

daaaaamn... that thing is nice!

[oestek]

Thanks Guys! Here's a quick shot of the MAST CAN gauges...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/slidehowdashgages-1.jpg

[Larry Callahan]

And thanks to Larry Callahan for loaning us his wheels in a pinch, and to Frank Serafine for shipping them!

I don't want to hijack the thread but if anyone is interested those 17" wheels they are for sale when Kevin is done with them. PM me if you are interested.

[tom_a]

Looks good! I like the Red. Is that Hot Rod Flatz?

[oestek]

All the paint is PPG Deltron base coat without clear. The top is Scarlet Red, the stripe is Galaxy Silver, and the bottom is 2006 GM Charcoal Metallic. This is supposed to be a temp paint job, as the car still needs bodywork, floors, quarters, etc. This way, it can be driven around and thrashed without worry of scratches and stuff!

[elcamino80]

And thanks to Larry Callahan for loaning us his wheels in a pinch, and to Frank Serafine for shipping them!

I was gonna ask "Aren't those Larrys wheels?" until I saw your post...

Cool car btw

[oestek]

I just got word from the car's owner, Stefan, that the GTO ran 13.40s at 108 with massive wheelspin on the Power Tour during its first drag strip pass. Heck, it only has 300 miles on it total! With some traction and tuning, I think the mid-high 12s are not far off. The L92 with VVT is nice!

[SixSpeed454SS]

Kevin,

Car looks great. I haven't really had a chance to view the vids, lately. I want to view them soon, though.

What suspension is under the car? Did you do air ride, or just springs/spindles? I love the stance.

EDIT: I watched the vids & see you did Air Ride. I've driven the Air Ride Blue '66 Chevelle. It does handle great. That car was too much fun. I drove it at a track, not an autoX.

[Code Red]

noice man

[Bow Tie 67]

I just got word from the car's owner, Stefan, that the GTO ran 13.40s at 108 with massive wheelspin on the Power Tour during its first drag strip pass. Heck, it only has 300 miles on it total! With some traction and tuning, I think the mid-high 12s are not far off. The L92 with VVT is nice!

Great times with the truck intake and VVT. Do you know the curb weight?

[oestek]

I don't know the weight, but it's lighter than stock... no more cast iron 389 and 'glide with the aluminum engine, and the suspension is lighter with the Wilwoods brakes. It runs well, still needs some tuning and trans cal tweeking. It is a fun car!

[oestek]

Catching up on some of the install videos on the GTO... here's the Air Ride MuscleBar sway bars and PosiLinks articulating end links on the GTO's front suspension. The links are cool, they keep the bar rigid but also prevent binding. These are 2 key elements making an air-equipped car handle well, but they will also work on traditionally sprung cars.

Video: http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/585/118/

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[oestek]

Here's the rear Air Ride Street Challenge suspension system and Currie 9+ rear axle housing going in... it's only the axle housing because a major shipping company (to remain nameless) "lost" 33 spline axle... Other than that, no major hiccups with the install. We chose to weld in the upper air spring brackets to make it a little cleaner.

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/590/1/

[Young Gun]

great update! from the video it didnt look like that tough of an install!

[oestek]

great update! from the video it didnt look like that tough of an install!

It really isn't hard. Just bolt-in stuff. (For a change!)

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

cars bad ass...

but if i could suggest one thing..

get in on that Rushforth group buy.. ahahhahaha

a nice set of rated Xs in black or gunmetal.. BANG!

[Larry Callahan]

What! You don't like my wheels?

Just kidding.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

hahaha..

i know i know larry i know.. hahhaha

[oestek]

Different wheels are in the cards, but we'll have more on that later. Thanks again to Larry's Loan-A-Wheel for the current rollers!

[oestek]

We've going through all the build pics and posting photo galleries of the GTO build... there are over 550 photos total, which will be in 13 or so separate galleries. The first 5 sets are online, and the new ones will be publishing all week. If you didn't see the videos and are interested in this car, check them out at the link below.

http://v8tvshow.com/content/blogcategory/74/118/

[oestek]

It's been a while, but here's another update on the GTO - the 2 tone paint process.

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/657/118/

[Steve1968LS2]

I think that if I wanted six gears I would just drop in a T56. If not then the 4l60e (4L80e for bigger power) and be happy with the Overdrive.

I think the issues with the 6L80e outweigh the cool benefits of having a six-speed automatic. At least unit those issues are ironed out.

Still, should be a cool project. Can't wait to see it at SEMA.

[1969CamaroRS]

What about a 4L60E/80E and a gear vendors? 8 speed auto :evil:

[oestek]

If you saw earlier, we swapped to a Bowler 4L65E with the intent of a Gear Vendor making an 8-speed auto. I'm not sure about the SEMA deadline now, as the owner has been out thrashing the car like crazy and we've got more bodywork to do...

[Johnny C.]

Who built or how did you build your dash for the aftermarket gauges?

[oestek]

The gauges are from MAST, and we just cut a stainless piece for the dash insert.

[oestek]

I guess there is more to it than that... I've got a video on the dash install coming soon. Lots of wiring, planning, 3M panelbond, Blair Holcutters, and a plasma torch were involved.

[oestek]

Here's a look at the Mast Motorsports M90 ECM and their killer CAN network gauge package. We installed their M90 in our L92 GTO along with their harness and throttle pedal, then made a dash insert for the gauges. Very nice stuff.

Video:

http://www.v8tvshow.com/forum/index.php/topic,216.msg7516.html#msg7516

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/66GTO60708_s_068-1.jpg

[oestek]

Still postin' videos on the GTO.. here's the story of the engine first start!

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/769/1/

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[BossaNova]

Thanks Kevin!

[Motown 454]

Nice video. The car sounds sweet and looks like plenty of power.

[cdoggy81]

Very Cool project! You guys do a great job in all your builds & videos :)

[ProdigyCustoms]

Kevin, if it makes you feel any better. We did the exact same thing today on the ignition switch. Although Michael did find it quick.

[oestek]

Thanks Frank... good to know we're not alone. The guys at Mast have told us that this has been a problem with alot of cars, so they now tell everyone to watch out for it.

Just posted a huge photo gallery on the GTO, something like 540 pics or so covering the build from start to finish. Or at least until we get it back to do some more mods!

http://www.v8tvshow.com/images/stories/66_GTO/66GTOBigGallery/index.htm

[robertjra]

good build I'm building a 69 camaro with a l92 and a 6l90e and air ride your build has lots of good hints and tricks thanks for posting all of your videos keep up all the good work i like it!!!