Who's using AIR RIDE? opinions please

[70 Chevelle]

Who's using air ride? What are your opinions after installation, better or worse than expected? Are you happy with your investment? Would you do it again? I'm considering air ride and have not driven anything using it. Any opinions good or bad would be greatly appreciated.

[absintheisfun]

I'm wondering the same thing on a 67 camaro.

[dropit69]

check this thread out ,full air ride car was sweet ...got to see it at RTTH3...http://www.musclerides.com/forum2/showthread.php?t=2291&highlight=vinny

[jeff s]

I've ridden in their cars around and AX course. I was impressed.
We sell and install systems and offer Shockwaves and AIr Ride systems as an option on our line of G Machine full chassis.
I'm using it on my 2nd gen Trans Am full chassis demonstrator vehicle.
BUt its not quite done yet.

[cmraman]

I don't much about the installs, but having been taken around the AX in joliet in the Giveaway car, the suspension is unbelievable. I was really shocked on how well the car handled and the ride quality is unmatched. I say go for it.

[MonzaRacer]

I have had my 78 C10 done since Labor day weekend 04 and I love it.
This is on my daily driver and I intend to have it on my 77 Monza too.
I would never ,given the money to do it, run anything else.

[70 Chevelle]

Thank you guys .Anyone else? I still have never heard anyone say anything negative about it . That's weird. Usually when you ask people's opinions on something you get the people that despise it and the people who live by it. I'm not sure whether this is a sign of an excellent system or a lack of opinions. Of course, I'm not asking anyone to openly bash on the system but you can't please everyone. Can you?

[ProdigyCustoms]

I have not spoken as you and I have already discussed this on the phone. But for others reading, I love it!

[Phasstnova]

I am running the Street Challenge Air Ride system on my car I only have 300+ miles on it so far. what little time I have behind the wheel with the system installed I can say I like the ride and handling.
it was an easy install with basic hand tools all but the tabs for the rear end have to be welded on for the 4 link.
the only problem I have had with the system is an air leak that I can not find rear bags and the tank louse air over time like a day or so.
I have taked with air ride and they have given me some things to look at but have not had the time to do so as of yet.
And the other thing the car was done and then I put on the air ride and now if I drop the front to low the headers will hit so I will have to put some other type of headers on or build a set to get the ground clerance I want
I also put a set of CPP tubuler upper and lower control arms
on the car along with the air ride and I can say this thing is now fun to drive.
Hope that helps.
Rich

65 Nova SS

[TonyL]

Let me put it this way. As soon as I can afford it, I'm going air ride. Both on my son's 06 mustang, and on my car. I've ridden in more than one AirRide car, and loved it.

[jb@ridetech]

Thanks Guys, Glad to see we have made a good impression on the industry. Looking forward to another great year, hope to see you guys at the good guys autocross.....

[protour73]

please give me an idea of the cost of an entire system for a 2nd Gen Camaro? install time? difficulty of install? :help:

thanks,
Scott

[ProdigyCustoms]

ProTour, for a Street Challenge kit you looking at a retial of $6895

[darren@ridetech]

The Street Challenge kit is the best of the best of everything we offer for that car.

[teamplex65]

I have had Air Ride on my Tempest for 3.5 years and love it. My personal opinion is to go with the Shockwaves. They are simple to install and work flawlessly. When I first purchased my system 5 years ago they did not have a leveling system. I believe they do now and have not really checked it out but I think they have been working on making it better as time goes on. I ordered a AccuAir system instead as they were the best on the market at the time.

http://www.accuaircontrolsystems.com/

What this system does is remembers set points on a pivitoing part of the suspension and a static part. The AccuAir system I use, makes use of Lincoln Navigator levelers. You mount one end to the frame, and the other end to the rear trailing arm. It then has 3 presets that you set yourself. This has huge advantages in that if someone hops in with you, you simply press the button and the car re-levels itself (adding more pressure to the right side of the car). This would be impossible with simple air-pressure gauges. The nice thing about the Lincoln levelers is if it breaks at any time, simply pull into a Ford dealership and ask for a Lincoln Navigator leveler, and you are back in business. (note: I went and looked at there website and it appears they are not using the Lincoln Navigator levelers anymore)

Wether you go with AirRide or AccuAirs leveling system, deffinetly plan on one of them as it makes driving a AirRide vehicle that much more enjoyable.

[64Chevelle]

Hi,

I'm following a project build over at lateral-g.net: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=10568&page=5

Towards the bottom of that page you can see a comparison between the air ride LCA and a pair of GW LCA's. I was thinking going air ride myself, but when I saw those pics and the discussion that follows I'm not really sure anymore. On the other hand, size does not always matter and the quality of the materials used should be equally important. Weight comparisons would also be useful in the equation.

What do you guys think?

[marolf101x]

Pneumatic suspension control systems:

As most of you know, I'm in charge of the electronic control systems here at Air Ride Technologies. I'd like to take a moment to explain what you should look for in a control system, and why these features are essential.

I'd like to start off by saying the guys at Accuair are top notch people, and they have a good product. Anything I say from this point forward is how I feel the systems should work based on my years of screwing with pneumatic suspension control systems. What follows is not intended to degrade any competitors’ product. This is simply how I feel these systems should function to work on the greatest range of vehicles possible (please remember in my position I have to make a system that will work on any vehicle ever produced by a major auto manufacturer, as well as anything that was cooked up in someone’s garage. It’s not too difficult to make one control system work on one vehicle platform, but it’s a whole other deal trying to get one to work on everything.)

Pressure only systems:
A system that uses air pressure as the sole input can be made to work rather well. However, due to external forces, the pressure in the air springs can fluctuate under different circumstances while the vehicle height (the actual height of the body) remains at the same distance from the ground.

The pressure in the air spring is not directly relational to suspension travel. It’s close, but one time 80psi may raise the vehicle to 27-inches (measured at an arbitrary point on the vehicle body, like the top of the wheel well) while the next time 80psi may only raise the vehicle to 26-inches. External factors affect air spring pressure:
-weight of vehicle
-temperature
-suspension bind (This can be seen in a double wish bone front suspension where the movement of the vehicle vertically causes the tires to move horizontally. The movement of the tires creates a suspension bind and induces a false load on the air spring. If you roll the vehicle forward, the bind is alleviated and the vehicle drops a slight amount. Now the pressures are correct, but the vehicle height is not.)

Level only systems:
A system that uses level sensors as the sole input can also be made to work rather well as you now have a direct link to the suspension so you know exactly where the suspension is at all times, however, it too suffers from some downfalls. Such downsides include:
-the sensors must be correctly installed or the suspension control system will not work
-cross loading (cross loading occurs in Hot Rods, muscle cars, and light duty trucks as the vehicle can be raised to the correct ride height with two opposing air springs due to the light weight, small volume air springs, relatively short wheel base, and predominantly solid axle rear suspension.)

As an example think of a 1967 Camaro which has a double wish bone front suspension and a solid rear axle. If you inflate the left front and right rear air springs the vehicle will raise to the proper ride height, satisfying the level sensors. However, we know that the right front and left rear air springs have little to no air in them. This can be a serious issue as the vehicle will “teeter-totter” going down the road.

Air pressure and level sensor systems:
A system that utilizes both air pressure and level sensors can overcome the pitfalls of a pneumatic suspension system:
-the controller can watch air pressure in the air springs to ensure each air spring has adequate air.
-it can also watch the level sensors and attain a perfect ride height, regardless of external forces acting on air pressure.
-in addition you have the insurance that if a level sensor fails (it may have been installed incorrectly, it may have failed electrically, or it may have been knocked off the vehicle by debris) the system will know that the level sensor has malfunctioned and revert to watching only air pressures, and by doing so the system will still work, just not as precisely as it could.
-It is my feeling this is the best possible solution as you can overcome all obstacles.

Additional Information:
-In my testing an air pressure only system will return the vehicle to within 0.5-inches (1/2”) of your preset ride height.
-An air and level system will return the vehicle to within 0.125-inches (1/8”) of your preset ride height.
-A level sensor system is not always required as some vehicles perform quite well with an air pressure only system. The addition of level sensors will make any system more precise, and it will also cure a lot of systems that do not want to return to the correct preset ride height (due to the external forces mentioned above.)

[crazyfireman]

I love the air ride on the front of my 67 Camaro. It rides great, you can adjust the ride height, and it was a fairly easy install. Mine doesnt leak down after sitting for a week! I will do the rear as sonn as the funds allow

[teamplex65]

Thanks for the above info. Now you have me wondering and I may add some pressure gauges in the trunk just to see how well the AccuAir system does at leveling with somewhat equal pressure.

[deuce_454]

ok. here is a short Hijack.. albeit its on the same subject... I have a 79 malibu those of you on lateral g have seen the progress thread, and is aware of my sceptisicm towards air suspension (especially the fact that air bags are progressive by nature and shocks are linear makes my inner engineer squirm at the thought os installing it) But having ridden a 2007 audi with air suspension have really gotten me wondering about if it wasnt somthing worth trying..

my bu was built for cornering... specs are as follows:
boxed frame, solid body mounts.
tall ATS spindles, global west "negative roll" front UCA & LCA with del-alum bushings, 1-5/8 hollow Hotchkiss swaybar
Curectrac rear upper and lower controll arms, 1 inch solid rear sway bar, SC&C watts link (still to be delivered).. 12:1 steering box.. the springs are as of now global west "negative roll", and the shocks are bilstein... (brakes are C5 + hydraboost btw... not that it matters for handling but i have to run low sidewall tires at the minimum rim i can run is 17 inches) wheels will be 18 inches... (yes frank ill call soon :-) )

how would my handling be affected by installing an air ride setup.. shock waves fromt and bags in the rear?? better, worse?? both comfort and roadholding wise... and why is it a good/bad idea.... real arguments please!! also what kind of controll system is required??

[darren@ridetech]

Hi,

I'm following a project build over at lateral-g.net: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=10568&page=5

Towards the bottom of that page you can see a comparison between the air ride LCA and a pair of GW LCA's. I was thinking going air ride myself, but when I saw those pics and the discussion that follows I'm not really sure anymore. On the other hand, size does not always matter and the quality of the materials used should be equally important. Weight comparisons would also be useful in the equation.

What do you guys think?

That is one of the older design arms. They were 1" in diameter. We have never had a failure with those arms, but for aesthetics we have changed it to a 1 1/8" .219 wall tubing. Unsprung weight is obviously a concern as well. I just weighed one of our arms with the ball joint and bushing and it was just under 11 lbs.

[marolf101x]

deuce_454,

Spring rates and such:
Though an air spring can be highly progressive (depends on which air spring you are looking at) and the shock is linear, you must remember that it's not often we use the entire stroke of the damper during normal or spirited driving.

Here's why: (let's say, for this example, you are taking a tight left turn)
As the right side of the vehicle is compressed, the air spring is compressed. The air spring starts off with a "street reasonable" spring rate, and as it is compressed in the turn the spring rate quickly increases as the air in the spring is compressed. A spring rate is quickly attained that will hold the vehicle up and roll is halted. As this "magical" spring rate is quickly achieved you don't use much of the shock stroke, so your compression valving is not terribly affected by the increased spring rate.

I really like this attribute of the air spring as I can turn in and allow the car to settle (when the vehicle stops rolling over toward the outside corner). Once it settles it feels like it "digs in" to the pavement and you can start accelerating through the turn.

[AccuAir]

Thanks for the above info. Now you have me wondering and I may add some pressure gauges in the trunk just to see how well the AccuAir system does at leveling with somewhat equal pressure.
Plex,

If you decide to add those pressure gauges, make them temporary because you won't need them. Since established in 2001, we have only had 3 vehicles that were prone to cross loading and they were all light weight vehicles with relatively small volume air springs, (Your car isn't a likely candidate).

Regarding your comment:
"(note: I went and looked at there website and it appears they are not using the Lincoln Navigator levelers anymore)"

The new rotational style sensors that we are using are also over-the-counter replacement parts at Ford. They are a little cheaper then the plunger style and user's like them better because they are smaller and easier to hide.

I'm glad that our system is working well for you in the Tempest! Maybe you can try one of our Gen II Systems being released in April on your next project car.

[AccuAir]

Mr. Marolf from Air Ride Tech gave a very comprehensive description of the three types of Ride Height Control Systems currently available:

1.) Pressure Based Only
2.) Height Based Only
3.) Height and Pressure Based

Having devoted the last 7 years of my life to developing ride height control systems for vehicles with air suspension, I thought I would at least weigh in on the issue.

For the last 2 years, we have been developing our Gen II Leveling System using the 5 years of accumulated sales experience with our original product. We set out to reduce overall cost, reduce installation time, create weather proof components, and improve overall system performance. One of the frustrations with all previous systems was that once they achieved level, they went to "sleep" by design. So if you happen to park on a slanted driveway, you would have to remember to re-level the vehicle once you were on level ground. The same scenario applied if you added passengers or luggage, you would have to remember to ask the system to re-level. A larger concern was that small air leaks could cause unwanted height changes over long trips. We knew that a more intelligent system had to be created.

Although there were no previous systems that had the ability to "monitor" and adjust the heights successfully while driving, we set our sites high (at times I thought too high =). After about 8000 man hours, I can finally say that a fourth type of ride height control system must be added to the list:

4.) Height Based with Ride Monitor™ Technology

This type of system is not "fully active"... meaning it will not respond to transients like corners etc, (That would require a completely different overall system approach). Instead it works by accumulating dynamic height data (200 times per second) over a 60 second time period (while driving) to determine if any corner of the vehicle has fallen out of tolerance and needs adjustment (while canceling unwanted skews like driveways, freeway on-ramps, etc). A system of this caliber has to know a lot about each vehicle and it's suspension system to make flawless adjustments in any circumstance. For this, we created a method that allows the system to constantly "learn" the vehicle and its operating parameters, (similar to todays fuel injection systems, they get smarter the more you drive it).
An added benefit to approaching height control with this much precision is the ability to eliminate air spring cross loading without the use of pressure sensors (the previous concern with height based only systems). Our website will have video proof when our Gen II Leveling System launches in April of this year. Unfortunately, the complete description behind this portion of the system is proprietary at this time, but I will say that dynamic spring rates are being calculated on the fly.

Side note, I enjoy seeing all of the educated debate about Air Suspension vs. Coil Springs on this forum. In general, I think that it is unfortunate that so many previous air suspensions have been setup and installed improperly giving people a "bad taste". Lucky for all of us, Air Ride Technologies has been persistent in their approach and created some well designed, "bolt-in" suspension systems that demonstrate a balance between handling and comfort that conventional metal springs simply can't provide. Perfected technology of the control systems behind the air spring will surely create the overall best performing air suspended vehicles to date... and maybe someday the Air vs. Coil debate will end!

[64Chevelle]

I still can't seem to decide which route to go with my car...

With coilovers both ride height and springrate can be adjusted, but what about air springs?

I currently have the understanding that with the air ride springs one parameter will always affect the other and that there is no way to adjust both at the same time. Say I install the springs and adjust the pressure to get the spring rate I want for a certain track, but I would also like to lower the ride height just like with a coilover. Can it be done? Is there some physical height only adjustment on the spring?