Dumb question about aftermarket full frames for 1st gens

[shudog]

Since 1st gen Camaros have a unibody, if a guy went with an aftermarket full frame chassis, wouldn't you have to weld in the floor pans, trunk pans, rocker panels, etc? It's not like you could just set an existing body on an aftermarket full frame could you?

Thanks.

[shudog]

anyone?

[Relax428]

I myself was curious about a full frame chassis for a 1st Gen F-body.
Since the rearframe rails were welded directly to the body I would think they would need to be removed in order for the need chassis to fit.

[dipren443]

Your assumptions are correct. You would have to weld in braces for the body. Then completely remove the floorboards and existing frame rails. Once you have that done, then you could drop the body over the new chassis. It would then have to be mounted to the chassis and new floor pans fabricated.

[shudog]

Your assumptions are correct. You would have to weld in braces for the body. Then completely remove the floorboards and existing frame rails. Once you have that done, then you could drop the body over the new chassis. It would then have to be mounted to the chassis and new floor pans fabricated.

Thanks for the reply. That sounds like a lot of cutting & welding & fabrication to get the benefits of a full-frame chassis. I think unless a guy wants a car for hard-core track use, the stock frame with subframe connectors and possibly an aftermarket front subframe is plenty. Putting in a roll cage would help the stock frame immensely too.

[Apogee]

...Putting in a roll cage would help the stock frame immensely too.

Getting "cagey" with it would be a great comprimise between uni-body and full frame. Eliminating the back seat and going with a 8, 10 or 12-point cage with triangulation should do wonders for torsional stiffness. That's next on my list for my Nova...after I make a cart and add hydro to the bender, cuz I'm lazy like that.

Tobin

[bucks69]

Your assumptions are correct. You would have to weld in braces for the body. Then completely remove the floorboards and existing frame rails. Once you have that done, then you could drop the body over the new chassis. It would then have to be mounted to the chassis and new floor pans fabricated.

This is true when using full frames such as Morrisom Max-G, but there is options to use existing mounting locations that came from the factory with "so-called" minor modifications, such as Schwartz Performance, I also believe there are a few more options such as ROadster Shop I think and there is another but the name escapes me now, but there is some options to pursue depending on what level you want to go.

[silver69camaro]

Full frames would be good for track use, but that isn't the intention. They are often too heavy compared to a stiff unibody setup with a cage.

The benefits to a full frame is the ability to have a street car with the structural integrity of a E92 BMW. NVH is greatly reduced. Also, it opens doors for the ability of have any suspension geometry you can dream of.

Also, you can get a pretty mean stance that you can't get anywhere else:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/07/CopyofDSCN1958vi-1.jpg

Check out how low the rocker is. Bolt-on parts can't do that and still drive like of Porsche.

[dipren443]

This is true when using full frames such as Morrisom Max-G, but there is options to use existing mounting locations that came from the factory with "so-called" minor modifications, such as Schwartz Performance, I also believe there are a few more options such as ROadster Shop I think and there is another but the name escapes me now, but there is some options to pursue depending on what level you want to go.

Gotcha. I haven't really investigated the Schwartz setup. Was just looking at their website and they seem to have a nice product. I would like to see a detailed how to on the install of one of their chassis. It looks pretty straight forward. The only thing that would kind of turn me off is the fact these cars are already a bit on the heavy side. I don't know how I feel about bolting a chassis underneath an existing semi-unibody like on the Camaro...

The other one that was posted (Street Rod Garage I think???) was getting put through the wringer on here. The general concensus wasn't too positive.

Here is the post:
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38224

Nick

[shudog]

Yeah I posted in that thread as well and it's really what got me thinking to create this thread. I was considering the full frame chassis as a great starting point, and being cost effective but it certainly doesn't sound like it if I had to pay someone to do the cutting/welding/fabrication for me.

[dipren443]

Yeah I posted in that thread as well and it's really what got me thinking to create this thread. I was considering the full frame chassis as a great starting point, and being cost effective but it certainly doesn't sound like it if I had to pay someone to do the cutting/welding/fabrication for me.

Well maybe it's time to buy a welder and take a class at your local tech school. :razz: I have to say, I would LOVE to pick up a Morrison Extreme-G chassis for a car to be named later... I desperately want to build a fun mostly track/sometimes street car. Maybe an early Cougar... Or.... :ssst: Too many ideas. Must resist temptation to max out credit...

[frankenstang]

The Schwartz Chassis is designed to fit inside the rear rails. No cutting of the floor or frame is required. The full bare frame weighs less than the factory subframe with the suspension installed. I've picked them up and I can attest to the strength and weight. Call Jeff at the shop and talk to him, don't be scared, He wont bite!!

[silver69camaro]

The full bare frame weighs less than the factory subframe with the suspension installed.

Stock subframes weigh about 220lbs or so complete. How can the full frame weigh less than that?

[deuce]

call jeff , he will help i think he has what you are looking for there is no cutting of your body to fit his chassis if there is it is minimal

[shudog]

Can anybody give me a ball park cost of how much $$$ one of these Schwartz frames might cost?

[deuce]

3500 for bare frame and around 13k for a full roller w big brakes and winters rear

[deuce]

that car is extreemly bad ass:worship:




Full frames would be good for track use, but that isn't the intention. They are often too heavy compared to a stiff unibody setup with a cage.

The benefits to a full frame is the ability to have a street car with the structural integrity of a E92 BMW. NVH is greatly reduced. Also, it opens doors for the ability of have any suspension geometry you can dream of.

Also, you can get a pretty mean stance that you can't get anywhere else:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/07/CopyofDSCN1958vi-1.jpg

Check out how low the rocker is. Bolt-on parts can't do that and still drive like of Porsche.

[kmcanally]

Isnt that the Johnsons Rod Shop mustang all naked?

[bucks69]

Isnt that the Johnsons Rod Shop mustang all naked?

Alloway I believe.you can go to Morrisons website and it has a lot of pics of this car.

[kmcanally]

Thats it...thanks for the clarification.


Alloway I believe.you can go to Morrisons website and it has a lot of pics of this car.

[David Pozzi]

Stock subframes weigh about 220lbs or so complete. How can the full frame weigh less than that?

Here is some measured weight data for a first gen Camaro subframe.

FIRST GEN CAMARO SUBFRAME WEIGHT additon list POWER STEERING
Bare sub 110
knuckle assys (stock single piston disc) 92
springs 22
A arms - upper 20
A arms - lower 22
Shocks 6
Ctr link and tie rods 17
Trans Crossmember 10
Sub total 299

PS box, hoses, pump, pitman 44
TOTAL 343
=============================================
FIRST GEN CAMARO SUBFRAME WEIGHT additon list MANUAL STEERING
Bare sub 110
knuckle assys (stock single piston disc) 92
springs 22
A arms - upper 20
A arms - lower 22
Shocks 6
Ctr link idler and tie rods 17
Trans Crossmember 10
Sub total 299

man steering box with pitman 16.5
TOTAL 315.5

[dipren443]

Thanks for the data Dave. You probably recited that from memory. :bananna2:

Would love to see some numbers from Schawrz on bare and loaded frames.

[68Formula]

At least the extra weight would improve distribution.

[CraigMorrison]

Since 1st gen Camaros have a unibody, if a guy went with an aftermarket full frame chassis, wouldn't you have to weld in the floor pans, trunk pans, rocker panels, etc? It's not like you could just set an existing body on an aftermarket full frame could you?

Thanks.

We have done a lot of these chassis and the build method is split pretty much 50/50. There are customers who convert the car so the body will be removable, but there are others that weld the chassis to the body, continuing with the unibody theme. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, it all depends on what you want to do and your skill level.

Because of the custom nature of our chassis, we do offer a wide range of suspension - AME IFS or C6 front with tri 4-bar, parallel 4-bar or 3-link rear. Coils are an option or if you want we are now beginning to do shockwaves.

[frankenstang]

There is a fully assembled chassis at the shop. I will see if we can get Jeff to weigh it this week.

[gearhead1186]

We have done a lot of these chassis and the build method is split pretty much 50/50. There are customers who convert the car so the body will be removable, but there are others that weld the chassis to the body, continuing with the unibody theme. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, it all depends on what you want to do and your skill level.

Because of the custom nature of our chassis, we do offer a wide range of suspension - AME IFS or C6 front with tri 4-bar, parallel 4-bar or 3-link rear. Coils are an option or if you want we are now beginning to do shockwaves.

I think somebody mentioned b4 that they wanted to know the diff between a full frame and your front subframe, and rear clip connected by subframe connectors. I be very interested in hearing your take on it as price wise its pretty close, but fabbing a new floor scares me and this wont be a dedicated track car.

[Shawn MacAnanny]

What i planned on doing was welding my bolt in SFCs to the front rails (rear doesnt really need it) Then when i do the interior i have an 8pt cage im putting in. Welding it to the rear floor/frame and then cuttong through the front floor pands and welding the front bars directly to the sub frames to hopefully stiffen the chasis up a little more. I might add some extra metal here and there if i think it will make it stronger.