lt1 vs ls1

[justasquid]

Im a little new to the forum, so this may have been addressed already. But, I am planning on installing either a Lt1 or a Ls1 with a 6 speed manual into a 68 camaro. the price difference is around 1500 bucks for me to go with an Ls1. Is the extra cost worth the upgrade to an LS1?? I know, 1500 is not much when considering the cost of the entire build, but I gotta draw the line somewhere. my pockets arent bottomless.. I am just wondering if 1500 could be spent somewhere else.

I've seen a few Lt1's in 1st gen camaros and love the way they look in the engine bay. The Ls1 is less asthetically appealing to me. But the performance aspect has me thinking of going with the Ls1.

My goal is to get a running down the road. then, once everything else is done, body, suspension, ect... I will probably go back to the engine and mod it then. But, this may be years down the road. So the engine will be basically stock until then.

any input would be appreciated...

thanks.

[rocketman]

There really isn't any comparson, A Lt1 is a good piece I have 94 Z with a Lt1, yeah it makes good power but its still the old school sbc1 design. Yes there are several fast Lt1's, but the Lsx stuff I hate to say it is the king small block it took me alongtime to agree, but I have done a few Lsx's lately and they a hp monster, even on pg with good heads they make killer hp.

Either way a LS1/2/3/7 is the way to go. Now a ls1 will need the crossmember modified to fit the oil pan, where a Lt1 will drop right in. Plus the clutch set up is much cheaper than the Lt1 design

[WS6]

Do a search as there was a thread titled exactly the same if I am not mistaken about all this. You can see what was said there as it does apply.

I love LT engines and will build an old school car with one one day. You need to think about your long term goals, especially power, and go from there. If you think you'll be happy with a good street cruiser and say 400 rwhp, you'll be very happy with the LT1. If you want more NA, start with the LS. If you're planning forced induction of any sort, the choice is yours at that point as they both love turbos and superchargers. In stock form, the LS motors can handle more boost though.

[justasquid]

Thanks for the replys.

I did do a search, and didnt come up with much. I found a lt1 versus a ls1, but it didnt really have any information that I needed. I will keep looking though. thanks ws6.

I guess in addition to the cost. I was wondering what modifications would have to be made to fit the LS1? from what I've read so far, (thanks rocket man) the lt1 is basically a drop in? Is there anything else that has to be modified other than the crossmember?

My long term goals will include more power than stock, but not for a few years. So maybe I should just up for the LS1 now. I would like to see horsepower between 400 and 500hp in the end.

[Lowend]

The LS1 is superior to the LT1 in every way... its worth the $1500 just for the ignition system

[streetk14]

The LS1 is superior to the LT1 in every way... its worth the $1500 just for the ignition system


Agreed.......

Go with the LS1, you will not regret it. You are getting a lot of improvements and technology for that extra $1500. Aluminum block, distributor-less ignition system & 6 bolt mains just to name a few.

They also put out close to 400 hp stock on a traditional engine dyno without accessories and such (the way most magazines dyno their motor build-ups). If you are ok with 400 hp, get a 2001 or newer LS1 (they have the LS6 intake already) and throw some long tube headers on it. That should get you 400 hp.

I'll agree that LSx motors can be kind of ugly in stock f-body form, but they can be made to look very good with a little planning. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and don't hesitate to ask questions in the "LSx" forum if you go that route.

Andy

[OneQuickCoupe]

Several companies specialize in making parts to drop this engine into early Camaro's like you have.

This will not be a cheap undertaking so be prepared. I am currently installing a 447 LSX Blocked engine into my 64 Nova and the cost is pretty high.

D.J.

[justasquid]

thank for all of the replys.

I think my mind is made up then. I will most likely go with the Ls1.

I do still have some concern when it comes to the extra cost. How much modification has to be done to install the ls1 with a 6 speed?

I do have access to mills, lathes, and even a cnc machine. So making my own brackets or modifications shouldnt be a problem. As long as I know what to expect, I think I can undertake allot on my own.

thanks again for your input. Its definately helping out.

[SatisTraction]

if you can get to those tools it will be a breeze. The ls1 is the way to go. The best thing about the ls1 is all the tuning optiosn.

[streetk14]

thank for all of the replys.

I think my mind is made up then. I will most likely go with the Ls1.

I do still have some concern when it comes to the extra cost. How much modification has to be done to install the ls1 with a 6 speed?

I do have access to mills, lathes, and even a cnc machine. So making my own brackets or modifications shouldnt be a problem. As long as I know what to expect, I think I can undertake allot on my own.

thanks again for your input. Its definately helping out.



The swap can be done on a budget if you are going to do all the work yourself and have the ability to fabricate parts (sounds like you do).

First, you are going to have to deal with getting it bolted into your car. There are a number of motor mount adapters on the market that are reasonably priced, but I know some guys here have made their own. When I was doing this swap in my '68, I bought the engine mount adapters & trans crossmember from ATS, who is a sponsor on this site. Again, you could make these yourself it you want/need to.

Then there's the engine harness. You can either buy a new harness from S&P or Speartech (most expensive), have your original harness modified (less expensive) or modify the harness yourself (free). My car has a S&P harness, but I know of people who have gone throught their harnesses themselves and removed what was not needed. I worked with a guy who put an LS1 into an early 80's Celica and he did the harness himself. It just takes a wiring diagram and some patience.

Then there is the fuel system, which is something you'll have to deal with with any fuel injection swap. You can modify the stock tank or get a nice stainless tank from Rick's or Rock Valley. I would suggest you put the pump in the tank for long life and quiet operation.

Like I said, there are many ways to go about this swap and it can be done fairly cheap if you want to do it that way. I wanted the best looking/nicest parts and bought all my stuff new because my budget allowed for it. I suggest you do your research and figure out what you want to spend doing this and what the best route is for you.

Andy

[SatisTraction]

the harness is easy to modify yourself IF you have a clue about it. Hooker makes some affordable headers as does stailess works if bought through jegs. just research and make sure the parts match up.

[justasquid]

Wow, thanks for the information. It is very helpful. If all that is involved it the crossmember and engine mounts for fabrication, that will be a breeze. I think the wiring I will try to tackle myself. (I like figuring things out:). But after all of the feedback here, I am definately going with the Ls1.

Ok, so, all that it is need for the engine swap is modified crossmember, engine mounts, wiring harness and fuel system?

Im sure there will be a few other items that always show up, but does this cover the majority of it?

Also, can I use a puller fuel pump? Or is the fuel pressure too high for this application? the car has a new gas tank in it. I can change it, no big deal, but I thought it would be easier to use an external (inline) fuel pump.

thanks everyone, you've all been really helpful. I really appreciate it.

[merriman44]

Also need to look into gauges and/or a converter box for you speedometer.

[justasquid]

Ok, thanks.

I was thinking of running autometer 5 inch tach and speedo in the dash, and then a cluster of 4 with the fuel, the volt, the oil pressure and the water temp.

What does a converter box do and where can I get one? I'm assuming it converts the electric to a manual input in case I run the stock mechanical speedo??

[rocketman]

The LS1 is superior to the LT1 in every way...



A little harsh, a Lt1 can out run Ls engines, My 396 Lt1 took it's share of LS style engines, the Ls is just much easier to make hp, cheaper because the aftermarket is turning out Ls parts everyday.

[Lowend]

I'm not saying the LT1 is a bad platform, but the LS1 is a better one. That's what an extra 10 years of R&D at GM gets you...

[barno68]

I'll agree that an LS1 is better designed, but on a budget the LT1 is a better way to go due to the conversion costs. If JustaSquid can fabricate most of his own part, then it is somewhat comparable, just more work. I am guessing that the 6sp would need a tunnel mod to be installed however.

[rocketman]

That's what an extra 10 years of R&D at GM gets you...



I agree with that.

[justasquid]

Barno 68,

What tunnel modification do think will need to be done?

I know the tunnel will have to be cut in order for the stick shift to come through.. But is there something else I am missing?

I really dont want to cut the tunnel for a clearance issue.. I could always go with an automatic, I just prefer manuals in cars... always have.

thanks.

[INTMD8]

I wouldn't even consider anything but an LS1. Not to say that LT1's don't work, mine made almost 900rwhp, but in comparison they are a pain in the ass IMHO.

[barno68]

Barno 68,

What tunnel modification do think will need to be done?

I know the tunnel will have to be cut in order for the stick shift to come through.. But is there something else I am missing?

I really dont want to cut the tunnel for a clearance issue.. I could always go with an automatic, I just prefer manuals in cars... always have.

thanks.

I have not done the conversion myself, but I know that manuals can be bigger in the mid and end sections and many people have had to modify their tunnels. I think it depends on the trany. Through up a post in the trans section and ask, there should be plenty of replys.

[streetk14]

Barno 68,

What tunnel modification do think will need to be done?

I know the tunnel will have to be cut in order for the stick shift to come through.. But is there something else I am missing?

I really dont want to cut the tunnel for a clearance issue.. I could always go with an automatic, I just prefer manuals in cars... always have.

thanks.


No, you do not need to cut the tunnel to fit the T56 6 speed with an LS1. As long as you position the engine in the proper spot and use stock-height body mounts it is not a problem. I have used both ATS and S&P motor mount adapters on my cars and neither one needed any tunnel mods. There are some motor mount adapters on the market (can't remember which ones) that mount the engine higher and require raising the tunnel and possibly firewall modifications.

I would personally just buy a set of ATS adapter plates and be done with it. They aren't very expensive in the scheme of things, and the motor will be in the ideal location with no cutting required.

Andy

[justasquid]

thanks for the input. I will be checking out the ATS plates..

Thanks everyone for your replys, they've helped a ton..

[Shawn MacAnanny]

I've owned 2 LT1s one auto and one 6 speed and 2 ls1s. The 2nd ls1 isnt in its car yet but when i was faced with the same question there was no doubt in my mind which i was swapping in. My previous LS1 was well an LS6 with heads and cam in my old 01 Z06 and it made 465rwhp/422 rwtq with the 100% stock intake, TB, injectors, fuel pump, and shortblock. These engines are far superior IMO.

[MonzaRacer]

You guys must have $100k a year jobs and an extra $3k to $5k laying around.
dont get me wrong I would love to install a LSx in my Monza, even have found several people whocan source mounts and stuff.
BUT even though I can do wiring, I can mod just about anything on it.
What I cant do is get past the $2500 price of engines worth anything, $1000 for a trans , then at least $500 to $1000 for computer/fuel system mods, custome headers at $700 a set and all the other stuff.
I can build a very stout L98 or LT engine and install it with all new part(induction, exhaust and such) and still ahve a decent running car.
after finding the MSD ignition was best priced at $675 and a bunch of connetors at about $300, then the fuel system would need at least $500.
I just dont find all the big so called $500 engine deales everyone told me about.
Run what you can afford.
Price everything,twice, add 20 percent for good measure and dont take anything for granted.
If you want a combo to drive and save for decent LSx set up just install a good SBC and then go looking for the proper deal.
Dont get me wrong I am looking at building a custom LSx (4" bore X 3" stroke)and have found a block for trade. Its gonna take some time to put the rest together, and a trans and all the other stuff(I intend to build my own electronics).
And I need to locate proper trans as I dontthink my TCI Th350 will cut it.
Build what you can afford, set up stuff so its easy to swap in the LSx and you can sell the older engine to someone else later on.
But good luck in what ever you build.