First-Gen S10 Corner Carver

[jerome]

Hi, my name is Jerome and my project is a 1982 Chevy S10. I've posted some questions about it on here, and it's about time that I made a project thread.

I bought it summer of 2006 for $200 with the intention of pulling the knocking 2.8L and slapping in a V8.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610132701-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=32701)

That went out the window as I just kept digging deeper and deeper during teardown, and within a couple months, there was nothing bolted to the frame

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610132702-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=32702)

The frame was sent out to be powdercoated

Just some background, I'm a mechanical engineering student at college away from home in WA. So this project is going to take forever, as I can only work on it over school breaks.

Engine:
383 small block chevy
stock 400 crank
2-peice rear main 350 block .030 over
4 bolt mains
stock rods w/ ARP rod bolts
forged TRW 11:1 pistons
AFR 195 heads 75cc
Comp Cams retrofit hydraulic roller 12-433-8
Holley HP 750 double pumper
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
Milodon oiling
Shooting for 450-500 flywheel HP

Drivetrain:
sixspeedsinc.com rebuilt LS1 T56
Mcleod flywheel, single disk clutch, pressure plate
stock hydraulic throwout bearing
Ford 8.8 rearend from Explorer, stock with 4.10's, traction lok posi, disk brakes
rebuilt with carbon posi clutches

Front Suspension:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610180208-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=80208)
ATS tall spindles and steering arms
C5 brakes
stock lower control arms w/ Del-A-Lum bushings
SPC upper control arms
Howe ball joints
700lb springs and hidden adjusters from Speedway Motors
Bilstein S10 shocks

Rear Suspension:
offset 3-link w/ panhard bar designed by me: converging lower links and driver link offset to passenger side. panhard from driver's side frame to passenger side rearend.
johnny joints for links
heims for panhard
varishock coilovers

Wheels/Tires:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610180211-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=80211)
C5 Corvette wheels 17x8.5 front and 18x9.5 rear
Sumitomo HTRZ 245/45/17 front and 275/40/18 rear
2.25" wheel adapters for front

Exterior:
still can't decide between silver, metallic blue, copper, white, or black paint.

How it sits now:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610180207-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=80207)

Just got my rearend back from the welder, he did a great job. If you are in the Pacific NW and need welding, Bill Scribner is your man. Search for Scribner Welding.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610180206-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=80206)

Driver's side front looking backwards
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610180214-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=80214)

Driver's side looking forwards
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610180215-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=80215)



Jerome

[Mike Holleman]

That is going to be one neat truck Jerome. An S10 is on my list of to do's. My son has a 92 that would be a great starting point.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Mike Holleman

[muthstryker]

nice truck looks like its coming alone nicely.

Hi from another washington member.

[syborg tt]

Man I'm feeling the love for trucks.

Especially us mini-truckers

[Tony_SS]

Cool project Jerome! Look forward to the progress.

[BADNBLK]

Looks real nice! Can't wait to see more!

[GM_muscle]

i am gettin close to gettin done with my 97 s10.

[GM_muscle]

yours is looking good so far

[dusterbd13]

this is scary. i was thinking of doing almost the exact same thing as a new DD and track toy. ill have to watch your progress, as well as a few others for planning the build.
did you box the rear section of the frame while you were at it?
more pictures please. help all us researchers out a little.

michael

[TPI Monte SS]

Very cool project! Sounds very well sorted out, and looks like it's coming along great! Personally, I think a copper exterior (like Bad Penny) would look badass. Are you going to leave the grill and bumpers chrome, or do them body color?

[jerome]

I didn't box the frame, looking back that is one of things I regret. I was in a rush to tear it down and get the frame powdercoated. I really should have built all the suspension, and then had it powdercoated. The rear suspension crossmembers will force me to box portions of it. Really hurts to grind off new powdercoat, but it's what has to be done. I'll probably end up painting over the fresh sections.

Does anybody know if existing powdercoat can be rebaked so that new powder can be cured?

The grill and rear roll pan will probably be body color. I'm not a big fan of chrome, the wheels are enough for me. But the bumper I'm looking at getting only comes in chrome, so I may just leave it that way. Chrome looks good in moderation.

I ordered the oem ls1 hydraulic throwout for the t56 yesterday. I had the wrong one from mcleod before. I'm going with wilwood clutch and brake pedal master assembly, gotta figure out how to brace the firewall so that it doesn't flex. Also ordered ZQ8 bumpstops for the lower control arms, they are supposed to be better than just rubber, they have softer, more progressive spring rate.

Not sure what to do for swaybar, would love to get a splined one with bearings, but that is alot more money and effort to find an arm that works. Would be much easier to go with the stock one, get greasable poly bushings, and make adjustable heim endlinks.

I'm also wavering back and forth as to whether I want to put in a roll bar. I really would like harnesses, but a bar just makes it less comfortable to get in and out of, and is a ton of work. I'm uncomfortable with how the current seatbelts attach to the floor, because it's just one bolt and washer. The other problem is that the seats sit too high, and the floor needs all the bumps flattened out of it for the seats to sit low enough.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
angle is kinda crappy, so you can't quite see what i'm talking about.

[Crafty One]

To help you out in getting the seats mounted..... go to the salvage yard and remove the inner front seat mounts from a 4dr 1st gen blazer or 2dr w/ buckets. There is about 8 spotwelds per bracket (4 brackets) that will need to be drilled. Transfer them to the exact same spots in your truck and re-weld. Hope this helps some.... I did this on my 92....

[ROACHZ28]

Nice progress. I drive a 03 GMC ZRX Sonoma with a Street Rider
package as a daily driver. Can`t wait to see it done. :6gears:

[Fawkes]

1st, very cool project.

2nd, howdy from another Washingtonian. I'm in the Kent/Auburn area.

3rd, you could possibly mount a harness bar behind the seats. I've never seen one in a p/u, but hey, why not?

[backtobasics]

Man I'm feeling the love for trucks.

Especially us mini-truckers

Once I saw the quality of work, I knew your interest would be piqued.

Reminds me of your build, with the tear down, etc.

[lower90xcab]

project looks good.....

[lower90xcab]

Not sure what to do for swaybar, would love to get a splined one with bearings, but that is alot more money and effort to find an arm that works. Would be much easier to go with the stock one, get greasable poly bushings, and make adjustable heim endlinks.

im sure you are aware the ZQ8 package from GM, might look into those sway bars for the truck....im running the front and rear ZQ8 sway bar on my truck...im happy with the way it handles...belltech also makes a really nice set of sway bars for the s-series pickups....

[jerome]

The ZQ8 bar is pretty beefy, and I already have slightly higher spring rate (700lb) than stock. Actually, do you know if the ZQ8 bar is hollow? That might explain why its so big. I'm not planning on putting a rear bar on, so there's a good chance that the stock bar will be adequate. It all comes down to tuning, and then adjusting bar size to make it handle and accelerate right. I already have a stock bar, so I think I'll just slap that back on and see how well it works.

Does the rear ZQ8 bar go behind the rearend? Part of the reason I'm not planning on a rear bar is that the pinion is offset to the passenger for the ford explorer 8.8, so a S10 bar probably wouldn't work. Also I'll be running a panhard and coilovers that would make it pretty much impossible to run a bar behind the rearend. It would have to be in front of it, I think II much has a setup like that. I figure if I get the reasonable high spring rate for the back then I won't need a bar. I still don't fully understand how spring rates affect everything, so i'll need to do some reading on it.

Anybody with an S10 and coilovers have their spring rate handy so I at least have a ballpark number to start with? syborg what did you go with, or how did you pick a spring rate?

As for the seat track, I do have seat tracks, but I think the original owner put them in himself (possibly to get buckets instead of bench) and they are held in with 4 bolts. I need to get the seat lower than it is now, so I don't think tracks would help, I just need to cut out the humps in the floor to make it sit flat and then weld in reinforcing plates. Thanks for the tips though!

Jerome

[s10cyncrvr]

Does anybody know if existing powdercoat can be rebaked so that new powder can be cured?


It depends on the color. Usually darker solid colors can be rebaked without any color change. Clears and lighter colors like white tend to turn a little yellow if they are baked too long or rebaked. Do you know the manufacture and/or color name? From the pics it looks similar to Rally Wheel Silver from HotCoat.

It's looking nice. Should be a fun truck when you're finished.

[Code Red]

looking good

[HectorM52]

i am gettin close to gettin done with my 97 s10.
Cool, where is Summerville?

[HectorM52]

I didn't box the frame, looking back that is one of things I regret. I was in a rush to tear it down and get the frame powdercoated. I really should have built all the suspension, and then had it powdercoated. The rear suspension crossmembers will force me to box portions of it. Really hurts to grind off new powdercoat, but it's what has to be done. I'll probably end up painting over the fresh sections.

I did the same thing. Mine is p/c'ed blue and looks like dog crap now because I've cut and welded on it so many times.

And I too wish I had boxed it in before.

Live and learn, right?

[Eric Howell]

I really like you project and how you went a different route with the offset 3 link. I had looked into using one as well because off one of your other threads but chickened out and plan on using a standard 3 link with the lower bars converging with Watt's link.

I have also been looking at adjustable sways bars and it seems if you were to use DOM tube for the legs they wouldn't flex like the flat blades would once the bend goes in. I don't think it would be that hard to fab and the results should be well worth it.

BTW, my frame is boxed. Sorry I had to. Good luck with you project. Look forward to updates.

[Rick Dorion]

Love it. My short list has an S10 as a future DD/screamer.

[jerome]

Bought steel for transmission and rear suspension crossmembers, gonna be one connected bolt-in unit. Hopefully have it all welded up by the end of this week. I haven't had much practice welding, so I hope it comes out looking halfway decent.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610185987-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=85987)
Looks like the panhard bar mount might have to get trimmed a little bit. The rear of the frame is about 2 inches higher than I would like it to be, would have a bit of a rake if I left it at this level.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610185990-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=85990)
Johnny Joints that I'm gonna use.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610185989-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=85989)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610185986-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=85986)
T56 centered up and bolted on. Not final, still waiting for a soft remote bleeder line to come in the mail. The stock bleeder on the stock hydraulic throwout bearing had interference with the Mcleod bellhousing.

Jerome

[dusterbd13]

nice progress. wanna go more in depth about the rear ride geight?
also, if you are not a great welder, i wouldnt risk practicing on something as important as a suspension. remember, if it breaks its not only your life, but someone selses.
Michael

[Young Gun]

sweet build...keep us updated with the progress!

[backtobasics]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610185989-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=85989)


Is it me or the angle? Does the center section appear to be offset to the side? Is it just the angle of the photo?

[Young Gun]

i see that...i think it is slightly...but it also appears to be camera angle slightly

[HectorM52]

Sweet!

I'm looking forward to more progress!!

[jerome]

I set the front ride height with the pivot of the lower ball joint about an inch below the lower control arm mounting holes. Then I set the rear ride height by making the straight section in the middle of the frame level, and I checked that the bed mounts were level too. However, this puts the panhard bar mount about 2 inches from the frame, which is a little too close for comfort. So I raised the rear of the frame about 2 inches. Most trucks have a slight rake to them so that they don't droop too badly in the back when a load is put on, so this won't look too weird. However, I think I am going to cut the top part (about 2 holes) of the panhard bar mount off and reweld the top plate back on. This way I can drop the rear down to level again.

I do share the same concern about the welding. I purposely designed the crossmembers it a bolt in deal. I'll practice and see how my welds turn out. If they don't look good, I'll just tack it up, unbolt it, and have somebody else weld it.

The center section is offset about 3". Its a Ford 8.8 from an Explorer, that's just the way they made them. I'm not sure if Ford did that to cancel vibrations or if it is something to do with engine offset or transfer case. It was from a 4x4 if I remember correctly.

Does anybody know if the T56 bellhousings are supposed to turn the transmission towards the drivers side? You can kinda see it in the pictures too.

Jerome

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610186337-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=86337)

about 7" ground clearance, 2.5" driveshaft clearance. I might have to notch the crossmember to clear for travel.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610186339-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=86339)
Rear suspension crossmember tacked in, everything else needs to be trimmed and tacked. Pic doesnt show two pieces going from tranny mount to plates on sides of frame.


4" pipe represents driveshaft

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/12/610186340-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=86340)
1/4" spacer allows crossmember to be bolted in and removed. Removing spacer allows crossmember to rotate and come out of the C-section frame.

does anybody have tech regarding driveshafts?
4.11 gears, 26" tall tire. 4" aluminum driveshaft has critical rpm of 6200. That makes about 113 mph. I don't plan on driving that fast anytime soon, but if for example I hit it at the end of the 1/4 mile, will it just vibrate annoyingly or is it actually dangerous?

Jerome

[jerome]

not a whole lot of progress, takes so long to measure and cut metal

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/610187174-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=87174)
not welded yet, still have to cut exhaust passages through the front little pieces

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/610187175-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=87175)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/610187176-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=87176)
lots of complicated angles and notches to make (drivers side)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/01/610187177-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=87177)
still need to cap this

goals for next week:
exhaust passages
panhard bar mount
shock crossmember


Varishock coilovers, valve covers, breathers, sway bar bushings/endlinks coming in the mail next week

I'm having a problem getting the front springs in. Using the spring compressor through the shock hole, pulling up the spring and adjuster, the upper spring cup is slightly angled out, making the springs not line up with the control arm. Anybody have ideas how to get them in?

Jerome

[dusterbd13]

how are you making out, jerome? and progress?
Michael

[GBodyGMachine]

Man, for doing this in the garage, Congrads

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101153767-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=153767)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101153774-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=153774)

tank mounted...drops from the bottom, top crossbar makes sure it doesn't move left/right or up

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101153768-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=153768)

mounted upside down makes it easier to make those tabs (spring not in the way, also reduces unsprung weight. weld looks terrible because I tried to use weld-through primer...the stuff that comes out my ass would work better than that $20 can, never gonna use it again

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101153769-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=153769)

driver's side mount, the clearanced flat area on bottom of frame rail is for panhard bar bolt-in mount from bottom looks like a U, hopefully will have that done by this weekend

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101153770-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=153770)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101153772-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=153772)

The NPT fitting into the pump only goes in that far with a pretty big wrench, the small amount of thread engagement worries me, cause the filter is hanging by it...Also, the filter is -10AN in/outlets, but theres no flange area to seat it...i guess you just torque it and the flat areas seal it? the threads are easy to screw on by hand, so the threads aren't sealing it.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101153771-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=153771)

Upper link chassis mount...not actually crooked, just the camera angle. I wish I'd waited until after all this to powdercoat my frame


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101153773-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=153773)

1 lower link tab done, 3 to go

Look for more updates, I hoping to make this puppy driveable by the end of summer.

Jerome

[greencactus3]

awesome work!

[syborg tt]

thanks for the update - look forward to riding with you one day.

[novanutcase]

Nice Work! Can't wait to see it done!

John

[WTRacing]

awesome man, loving the build

[dusterbd13]

i was truly hoping wed see more progress on this truck. and thank you for the detaild pictures and being honest about the problems with parts. wish someone had done that before i bought TTI's...

can you give me the specs on the fuel cell, and how are you going to do the fill? im looking at using a cell in my 88.

Michael

[HILROD]

Always like to see a truck! Great work.

[trapin]

Jerome forgive me if this has already been asked but are you planning to "box" the frame from the mid point to rear?

[jerome]

http://www.rciracing.com/pg02.htm

RCI 2172AD 17 Gallon 30Lx17Wx7H

For the price, the RCI tank is decent. Good welds, good powdercoat quality. Only thing is that it isn't like a fuel safe or other more expensive cell where there is a bladder. Its just an aluminum box. Also, I've noticed when building the cradle for it, that the bottoms and sides aren't perfectly flat, but actually bulged out a little in the middle. I suspect that this is true for all cells of these kind, which is why you need to support them with a cradle.

I am planning on hinging the taillight and having the gas cap behind the taillight. This would require cutting off the filler neck and welding on an elbow so it turns before hitting the bottom of the bed. How I'm gonna get it over the framerail and to the taillight i have no idea yet.

I'm not boxing the frame. Its a difficult decision, because it does help alot, but I think with all the crossmembers and the (possible) cage I will be putting in, it won't be necessary. The reasons why I'm not doing it:

1. frame is already powdercoated
2. weight
3. tons of crossmbers reinforcing the frame already.

that being said, If I were to do it all over again, I would box it before powdercoating.

Thanks for all the interest, my project is at home, and I am at college out of state for most of the year, which is why progress is so sporadic.

off to make brackets!

Jerome

[novanutcase]

But haven't you already burned througn part of the powdercoat already welding brackets? Why not just box it since you'll have to redo it?

John

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154113-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154113)
heated plate and bent to fit bottom of framerail to make baseplate of PHB mount. First time bending something like this, got it to fit pretty well, 3/16" plate.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154117-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154117)
cut a groove to reweld plate flush with framerail

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154120-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154120)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154121-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154121)
bracket welded up. First time that I've been really happy with welds that i've produced...Its about time!

second pic showing the curve in the bracket to fit the framerail

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154123-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154123)
bracket drilled and in place...2x2 tube shown below will be welded to it and braced to the other framerail. I'm making an adjusting link mount to fit on the 2x2 tube. Won't divulge the details yet, but hopefully it will be screw adjusting.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154127-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154127)



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154124-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154124)
making lower link bracket...gotta drill out the line parallel to the edge cause the angle grinder can't make those cuts

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154125-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154125)
tacked in

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/6101154126-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=154126)
looking where the lower link will go

John,
You're probably right about the powdercoating. I'm gonna look into how much boxing the frame will help torsionally. (I don't think I need much help in the "pitch" direction) I remember reading a suspension book showing models and how beefier longitudal members don't add much torsional strength, but a cage does. Basically the reinforcement needs to be out of the plane of the frame. You can twist a ladder but not a box.

I won't argue that it won't help some though, and I'm seriously considering it now, thanks for the encouragement...its just a big pain to box it. I also don't know how to treat areas like the crossmember I welded the upper link mount to...can't box that area without cutting it out and rewelding it.

If this is too much detail and pictures, please let me know. I'm in the mindset of designing and building this thing, so these detail pics are what interest me, but its probably pretty dry

Jerome

[novanutcase]

Oh trust me! The more pics the better! I, as many on here, love to see how the build up is coming along. Keep at it Bro!

John

[greencactus3]

+1 for boxing the frame.
thats double the stock walls in the y-z plane
it should help pitch,
it will bring the frequency of the frame up

[jerome]

http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/chassis.pdf
GM best practices manual for aftermarket outfitters.

I just read that, specifically the part about reinforcing frames, there's some interesting things said in there:

"Continuous fillet welds should never be made across frame flanges or along their inside edges." --did that already

"Do not weld within 19 mm (0.75 in.) of the edge of a frame flange." --did that already

"To prevent localized stress concentration, reinforcements must be properly terminated. Reinforcement ends must be tapered or stress relieved. Tapers should not exceed 45 degrees." --I should do that

I guess frame plates, if terminated should look like fishmouths to not have the stress concentrated at the corner of the rectangular plate.

[formula98]

Great post! I just spent the last hr to 2 hrs reading through. Nice work and nice to see some one going through the book and understanding what he is doing. Keep up the great work!

[HectorM52]

Jerome - I'm in the same boat you are. I have powdercoated my frame and don't want to screw it up (anymore than I already have).

However, having my truck together already, I can tell you that you NEED to do something with the frame. It really does get enough torsional twist action to affect you.

I also am concerned about the weight issue - so I've been thinking... What about welding "strips" across the c-channel frame section? I'm probably going to have to build some sort of model in order to test the effects of twisting the c-channel frame... I'm thinking back to my days in my "structures" classes where we designed trusses. If you put something kind of "diagonal" across the "open" part of the 'C' - you will want to directly brace against the effects of the twist/torsion. You following me?

Essentially, instead of boxing in the frame, you specifically figure out what happens to the frame under stress, then brace ONLY against that!! You could weld some rods in there. Or strips of metal.


Anyway, just something to think about since you're RIGHT THERE with the truck not finished up.

If you didn't follow any of that, sorry for the thread hijack.

[jerome]

Thanks for the real-world advice. What signs are you getting that you have torsional twist?

I was thinking about the diagonals this morning, and I would be worried about all the stress concentrations when welding directly to the tip of the C. Each strip would create 4 points of stress concentration. When the frame flexes (doesn't matter what you do...it will) all the stress will be directed to the points where you don't box. So if I were to box it, I couldn't leave any gaps.

Thanks for the advice everyone...looks like the consensus is that it should be boxed. I need to figure out how to get around the riveted-in crossmember. Either that or commit to having a cage with rear downbars.

I'll get a pic of how GM made the end of the boxed portion...they took making a stress-relieved area pretty seriously

[greencactus3]

cage would obviously be more efficient than boxing, but is a bit more work. if you can fit it in, go for it!

[dhondagod]

I vote cage/downbars. Geometrically stronger/better and lighter than boxing.

Plus you get the added benifit of additional driver protection in the event of an accident.

Chris

[HectorM52]

What signs are you getting that you have torsional twist?
Ummm... To be honest I don't "know" that my problem is frame-tweak / twist. But I just have this sneaking suspicion that it is partly to blame for my rear end issues.

Specifically, when making a hard right-hand turn and trying to accellerate hard out of the corner, the right-rear wheel will spin with nearly NO traction.

The Belltech drop springs are VERY stiff. Couple that with my VERY stiff shocks. I KNOW that the rear end isn't getting all that "out of plane" in order to "lift" off the ground. So I'm thinking it HAS to be the frame just allowing a little bit more twist therefore allowing the rear end to also twist.

Make sense?

I'm thinking a stiffer frame would help cure my problem - if not completely cure the problem, period.

[jerome]

Ummm... To be honest I don't "know" that my problem is frame-tweak / twist. But I just have this sneaking suspicion that it is partly to blame for my rear end issues.

Specifically, when making a hard right-hand turn and trying to accellerate hard out of the corner, the right-rear wheel will spin with nearly NO traction.

The Belltech drop springs are VERY stiff. Couple that with my VERY stiff shocks. I KNOW that the rear end isn't getting all that "out of plane" in order to "lift" off the ground. So I'm thinking it HAS to be the frame just allowing a little bit more twist therefore allowing the rear end to also twist.

Make sense?

I'm thinking a stiffer frame would help cure my problem - if not completely cure the problem, period.


The right rear wheel in a right-turn has the least possible traction. Weight transfers to the outside wheel (left), so the right is already unloaded. Combine that with the counterclockwise rotation of the driveshaft (looking forwards at the engine) pushing the left into the ground and pulling the right wheel up, you have wheelspin on the right tire.

You're probably right about frame twist having some effect on the suspension though.

Chris,
I'm not so sure about the cage being lighter, but it will definitely have more of an effect. I will definitely have at least a roll bar in there so I can mount harnesses, and a cage is only 3 bars or so away right? :)

[greencactus3]

I'm not so sure about the cage being lighter, but it will definitely have more of an effect. I will definitely have at least a roll bar in there so I can mount harnesses, and a cage is only 3 bars or so away right? :)
less mass per % increase in rigidity in all axes.
im not sure how you count bars in roll cages, but bare minimum for stiffness, i would do
main hoop, ,
diagonal in the plane of main roll hoop,
diagonal forwards down (across the door sill)
and the rear diagonal bars to stiffen the underbed frame

[jerome]

Reclocked alternator case so the stud doesn't hit the valve cover
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101156204-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=156204)

Welded-in a crossmember for coilover mounts
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101156205-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=156205)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101156206-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=156206)

Welded-in sleeves for panhard bar mount so it doesn't crush the section when you torque the bolts
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101156210-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=156210)

had to rework the chassis-side upper link mount because I made a mistake. front suspension was 2" too high because springs were unloaded, so I leveled the frame knowing the rear was 2" too high. However, I made the chassis-side link brackets forgetting this fact, so their range of adjustment is 2" too low.

should have some better updates end of the weeked. going to pick up my rearend from the welder tomorrow. I cut off the top portion of the panhard bracket and had him weld it lower. He also is welding on swaybar tabs and making the panhard bar. Ordered materials for the actual 3 links, should be done late next week. Exhaust materials coming in on Friday. The goal is to get everything under the cab done quickly so I can get it on and start mounting pedals/column, seat, wiring etc. That way I can possibly drive it before summer is over.

Jerome

[dusterbd13]

making good progress, jerome. youre going to need to re-powdercoat the frame anyway at this point, so are you thinking about boxing it?

and im looking forward to seeing the three link done and also seeing how it clears the bed.


keep at it!
Michael

[HectorM52]

making good progress, jerome. youre going to need to re-powdercoat the frame anyway at this point, so are you thinking about boxing it?
:werd:

And let me just re-iterate to you how much you will NOT want to be yanking the cab back off the frame once it is up and running. Trust me, get it done now.

[jerome]

Biased Ford videos:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zRfE_XAk2mE
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/25/video-fords-silver-creek-truck-torture-test-track/

first test could have easily been rigged by tare-ing the deflection meter when the frame wasn't exactly vertical, but point still stands

clearly boxing it would help stiffness, but theres so many things that could go wrong:

I don't like the idea of boxing it, because those welds would be highly stressed and prone to cracking. I'm also not sure how the frames are made, but if they are cold-worked, welding on them takes all the hardness out. I'm just gonna not think about it, insert the plate about .75in into the channel and then weld short sections(so that I can't get one continuous crack).

Any thoughts on how to exactly level the frame in a garage? This part makes me uneasy too, because as you see in the first video, the frame easily be off by an inch at the end, and you box it and you have a permanently twisted frame.

I'm still not completely sold on boxing the frame as I think a well-installed cage would take care of these problems...I've tried pretty hard to level the frame too, but the left rail probably takes 30lbs to pick up while the right is 150lbs at least (at the back). Keep in mind, this is after I leveld the frame to get all the measurements for suspension...it's impossible to get the frame to be neutral.

having bare metal in a boxed-off section also bothers me

As you can see, I like the idea of boxing it, but not how wrong it could go.

Jerome

[camaro608]

thats pretty sweet.... there is a guy running around here with a blazer like that but he has the stock motor....

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101157484-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=157484)

made plates to close off stock gas tank crossmember. It is now being used to mount upper link and swaybar


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101157491-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=157491)
thanks for the motivation guys, would probably have just left the frame open if it weren't for the constant prodding

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101157492-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=157492)

that's why I had to make those close-off plates

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101157496-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=157496)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101157497-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=157497)
yeah, it's pretty frickin tight in there...

h-pipe will bend under the driveshaft

need to order another 3" mandrel bend for the other side. Didn't expect that 1 side to use up a full 180 degree u-bend save for about 15 degrees of it. Is it just cause I have cheap bends, or are all mandrel bends oval on the bend (yes, I cut it right, it's just not round)?

mufflers are dynomax ultra flo

Rearend is powdercoated, PHB powdercoated and done, gonna go pick 'em up tomorrow and take them to be assembled. Pics after assembly.

Waiting on tube inserts for link bars. Hopefully I'll have the bars done by next week and WE'LL BE ROLLIN'

Pushing to get everything underneath the cab done so that I can put it on and start fitting seats, pedals, column, etc. (everything I need to drive it)

[jerome]

box section fully welded in
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160906-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160906)

skipping around so that it doesn't get too hot, also so that a weld cannot crack along the whole rail continuously
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160903-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160903)

this is what happens when powdercoat gets welded on:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160898-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160898)

bumper mounted:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160901-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160901)
not as low as I thought is was gonna be, this is final ride height

me welding:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160904-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160904)

painting:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160909-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160909)

all painted up:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160915-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160915)

h-pipe craziness:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160913-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160913)

[jerome]

rear suspension waiting for link bars, tube inserts come in tomorrow, hopefully done by the end of the week.

rearend is powdercoated and assembled, brake brackets still need to be coated, will probably buy new calipers

I think I'm gonna wait until I drive this thing to put on a swaybar, because there is no way I can know how big a bar I need right now. I did however, get tabs on the axle for heims, and I will probably weld up some bushing mounts for the bar bushings.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160936-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160936)
rear brakes look really small, they are stock explorer discs at about 11 inches diameter...I'll probably paint that section of frame black so it doesn't stand out so much. I have about 2.5 inches clearance from frame to axle tube, no room to run a bumpstop, so I bought some that slip over the shock rod.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160937-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160937)
gear marking compound, I had someone assemble it, I assume the wear pattern is right

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160938-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160938)
stock traction-lok posi rebuilt with carbon fiber clutches, 4.10 gears

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160940-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160940)
panhard bar

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160941-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160941)
about 1/2 inch clearance to coilover

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160942-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160942)
you can see the adjustable panhard mount on the left. I'm trying to figure out a way to brace that vertical tube to the passenger frame rail, anybody got ideas?

better pic of it below:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160943-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160943)

Jerome

[trackrat79]

If u have access to a tubing bender or have a shop that u like to deal with that can bend up a tube for u. Just us a pieces of 1" or 1-1/4" .120 wall with a bend in it to clear the panhard rod itself and run it from the bottom of your adjuster tube to the passenger side of the frame.

Really like what u did for an adjuster. simple yet effective.

[Samckitt]

h-pipe craziness:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101160913-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=160913)

Wouldn't that be an "M" Pipe? LOL

[SaturnVUEguy]

Chassis is coming along nicely! I like the creativity with the "M" H pipe there, but hey, it works!

Any plans to re-powder coat the frame?

[HectorM52]

I love the "beefy" crossmember that you've got your exhaust running through.

HOWEVER, I would suggest making some sort of "removable access notch" or "access panel" or something that will allow you to remove your exhaust pipes without cutting them. At some point SOMETHING is gonna happen where you need to move something or do something and you're gonna have to cut stuff up.

So since you're still in bare metal, you could just go ahead and make this "notch" which essentially just cuts the bottom half of the tube-steel off. Then you box in that cut so the "top half" of the tube steel is still structural enough to be the crossmember. Then you "box" your notch with a hole going through there for two bolts, one on each side of the exhaust pipe. Then you weld two nuts up in the crossmember which will accept those bolts in the notches. So essentially you have a bolt on "loop" or "notch" or "access door" or whatever you wanna call it.

So when that time comes all you have to do is unscrew four bolts and you've got complete access to your exhaust system.

Then you can powdercoat both the x-member and the notches and all is well - no cutting or torching or welding in the future. All is safe.

[jerome]

Thanks for the tips hector, the exhaust will unclamp before the crossmember, and I just slide the h-pipe back about 3 inches, the whole exhaust will drop out. If I need to access the front exhaust, then I unbolt at the collector. Even if I had an access notch in the crossmember, I'd have to unbolt at the collector anyways. With the junctions so close to the crossmember, I can just slide exhaust either direction and pull it out.

I'll see if art morrison will bend me up a brace for the panhard bar. Since that mount will unbolt from the frame, I'd like to keep the brace unmountable too. I think i'll weld the brace to the mount, and then bolt it to the other frame rail. How do you usually bolt in a round tube...just a single bolt with tabs?

Also, does anybody know what I can paint exhaust pipes with? Ceramic coating would be too much money I think. Maybe some bbq grill spray paint, says it works up to 1200F?

Jerome

[trackrat79]

Just us a pieace of angle as big or a little biger than the tube u use and about 3" in length and run at least 2 bolts, but I would try and do 4. 2 up from the bottom and 2 from the side.


heres a couple pics to illistrate
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[jerome]

got one side done up to the muffler:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101161288-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=161288)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101161289-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=161289)

clearly the wrong way to use a hanger:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101161291-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=161291)

Anybody got a good way to support exhaust pipe from the side or the bottom? I also need a way to support it from a crossmember that is about 1/2" above the pipe.

trackrat, thanks for the pics...the maeir panhard for early mustang was the original inspiration for my design, I can't believe I had such a brain fart. I was trying to think of a way to bolt the tube in, when in reality, I can just weld a flange to the tube and bolt the flange.

Anybody have experience with Inland Empire? They are cheaper than Denny's but Denny's knew what they were talking about on the phone whereas IE had no clue. I asked what the critical rpm on a 4" aluminum was for 59" center to center...the "tech rep" tells me they spin balance everything at 9000+ rpm, it'll be fine. Fine my ass. As long as they build a good driveshaft I'll use them, but they have no clue what they're talking about.

Jerome

[SaturnVUEguy]

Took me a few good minutes to figure out what you meant by using the hanger wrong. Nice one! I am really liking the frame so far. Is that a cutout I see there?

[novanutcase]

got one side done up to the muffler:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101161288-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=161288)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101161289-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=161289)

clearly the wrong way to use a hanger:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101161291-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=161291)

Anybody got a good way to support exhaust pipe from the side or the bottom? I also need a way to support it from a crossmember that is about 1/2" above the pipe.

trackrat, thanks for the pics...the maeir panhard for early mustang was the original inspiration for my design, I can't believe I had such a brain fart. I was trying to think of a way to bolt the tube in, when in reality, I can just weld a flange to the tube and bolt the flange.

Anybody have experience with Inland Empire? They are cheaper than Denny's but Denny's knew what they were talking about on the phone whereas IE had no clue. I asked what the critical rpm on a 4" aluminum was for 59" center to center...the "tech rep" tells me they spin balance everything at 9000+ rpm, it'll be fine. Fine my ass. As long as they build a good driveshaft I'll use them, but they have no clue what they're talking about.

Jerome

Looking good!

IE has a pretty good rep so I'm surprised they were clueless to your issue!

Maybe you can make a cradle for the exhaust?

John

[dusterbd13]

if i rememeber the underside of the bed on mine right, somewhere near the gas tank crossmember is a channel on the inderside of the bed. why not weld a stud to that and use a standard hanger?

your other option is to weld a pair of L brackets on. on on the pipe, the other on our crossmember. then use a shock bushing on the bolt as an isolator. i did that on a set of sidepipes once. no extra noise into the interior from it. just make sure to use a vibration proof nut.

Michael

[HectorM52]

FYI the pipes should be strong enough to support themselves between each of the crossmembers. Why do you need a support there if you have supports other places?

[jerome]

Hector, you're right about the supports, I'll find a way to hang the pipe from above a little further back, probably at the stock gas tank x-member, and one up front somehow.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162275-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162275)
This is approximate location I want for the battery. Is there a more elegant solution than welding up a frame for it off of the gas tank cradle? I also can't decide yet whether to make the battery drop out the bottom or the side, or just bolt a "battery cradle" to the gas tank cradle.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162276-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162276)
put core support and bumper on...not quite as low as I thought. That is the original core support, I ordered a 91-93 support so I could use the 91-93 grille, I think the older grilles look well...old, and not in a good way. Haven't decided GMC or Chevy yet.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162288-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162288)
Afco S10 V8 radiator doesn't work. It mounts exactly where the stock one mounts, hits the waterpump. I have a Mark VIII fan on the way, so that's not gonna work. Most people recess the radiator into the core support. I'm gonna custom order a radiator a little smaller so that I don't have to do heavy cutting. We'll see after the Mark VIII fan gets here, cause there's a chance the radiator will have to "go through" the core support (front of rad is further forward than front of core support)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162277-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162277)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162279-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162279)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162283-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162283)
shot from behind, moved up the fuel pump an inch or so, everything is above the fuel cell, I'm thinking about doing a rear undertray type thing to make it smooth, and protect battery, fuel pump, fuel filter, and cell. Exhaust will come to either side of fuel cell and probably turn down right before roll pan

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162286-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162286)
top view of new panhard bracket brace

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162287-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162287)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162289-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162289)

new bumpstops:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162299-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162299)
It's soft foam rubber from Daystar. Had to use this style because clearance between frame and axle tubes is about 3 inches only.

for anyone struggling to assemble the spring onto the varishocks with a spring/strut compressor (it took forever for the first set), you can hold the nut under the top eye and unscrew the eye. Then, you can just put the spring on and screw in the top eye.

overall shot:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162291-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162291)

love this picture, it's starting to come together...can't wait for link bars to be finished and see this puppy without jackstands.

Jerome

[HectorM52]

Okay, here's a question I don't know if you've been asked before...

Have you mocked up fitment of motor vs. cab yet? Meaning do you have any more room that the motor could slide back? If so, do it now. Before you mock up your driveshaft and "finalize" your exhaust.

Keep in mind you'll want to make sure you have your steering shaft completed, all brake lines hooked up, clutch lines hooked up, fuel lines in their final position, a/c box installed, headers on, inner fenders installed, etc... Are you following me?

Essentially, you can't get a good idea of what it's going to be like under there if you don't try to mock it up once... Trust me, stuff will interfere that you never imagined...

So I'd suggest one round of mock-up before you finalized all that welding and custom work up front.

In my opinion the motor placement is one of the most important pieces of your puzzle!!! Get it as far back as you can!!! You can help the all important weight-bias as well as buy yourself more room for COOLING up front. Which, by the way, is hard to come by as you've seen with your big rad!!

Anyway, more stuff to think about... Have fun.

[jerome]

That's some good advice, I haven't mocked it up at all...I didn't think of it, since the motor is mounted on plates that aren't adjustable. However, I'll put the cab on and see what the clearance is. I've just been avoiding it because I need 3 people to do it, and it is a huuugggeee pain in the ass. I set the cab up on blocks and a wood "crossmember" by jacking each side a few inches at a time, get the frame under, and remove block at a time.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162327-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162327)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101162328-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=162328)

Jerome

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101164235-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=164235)
the fan is like 6" thick...no idea how to fit it in, gonna be alot of core support cutting or alot of engine setback

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/6101164237-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=164237)
battery mounted, still need to make the bottom piece removable with tabs so battery can drop out bottom. Also need to make hold-downs.

Currie sent me 2 tube inserts only...****.

Jerome

[novanutcase]

I was going to say the same thing! Try and set back the engine more for Rad clearance but now you may have to cut up the firewall!

John

[abadsvt]

Wow i just read this whole thing. Great work so far!! Keep it up!

Josh

[greencactus3]

for rad clearance? move the engine as far back as possible anyways!

[Jim Nilsen]

Your truck looks great !

I can't help but notice your floor . Is that real terrazo floor is is that vinyl tile? If that is real terrazo floor ,how much did it cost per sq/ft? It is something I have thought of but never priced.

Keep up the good work.

[jerome]

Jim,

Haha no, its just cheap, crumbling floor tile that they used in the early 70's. I'm not 100% sure that terrazo is what I'm thinking of, but we have done concrete where you mix in nice rocks, let it dry for a little bit, and then rinse the top off with water. The professionals use a chemical to make the top concrete dry slower, and they let the bottom cure, then wash the top treated layer off.

BTW, don't take my comments in the HHO thread personally, I was not attacking you.

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167863-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167863)
cab propped up ready for frame to roll under

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167864-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167864)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167870-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167870)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167872-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167872)
interference with bellhousing

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167874-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167874)
header fits in no way shape or form...the cab is still 2 inches too high in this pic

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167875-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167875)
finally on there, resting on bellhousing still...took til nighttime, I did all putting the cab on by myself

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167878-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167878)
some of the cutouts necessary for transmission clearance, showing cardboard mockup for firewall (clearanced for bellhousing)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167879-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167879)
closeup of firewall, little bump bottom left for clutch bracket on bellhousing that i'm not using

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167880-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167880)
distributor goes in without the cap, but putting on the cap is a problem

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167884-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167884)
but I can't cut too much out of the cowl, gotta clear the windshield wiper linkage

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167886-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167886)
even with the cowl cut, still don't clear the wiper motor, need to rotate the wiper motor to clear distributor

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167887-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167887)
hole to clear seat track

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167888-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167888)
seat in...it's pretty big, no room for anything in the cab but two seats

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101167861-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=167861)
my dad, he had work belt w/ suspenders so I took a pic of him "strapped in"

Jerome

[syborg tt]

I love the last picture.

The truck is looking awesome.

[novanutcase]

I gotta say that this is one of the coolest garage builds I've seen in a long time. Ditto on the last picture. Always good to see Pop into the build!

John

[jerome]

ITS FINALLY ON THE GROUND!!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101170816-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=170816)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101170817-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=170817)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101170820-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=170820)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101170825-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=170825)
Gas pedal is too low, and brakes are too high, so I am making a "stage" or "pedestal" for my heels, basically a raised floor under the pedals, raising the gas pedal with it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101170827-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=170827)
shifter is a little bit too far back, but I'll probably just get used to it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101170829-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=170829)
Goddamn its sexy. Finally after a year or two of planning, I see the monster of a rear suspension I've been planning. Can't wipe the smile off my face

[dusterbd13]

that is looking good, man. any side shots so we can see the approximate ride height?
and that rear suspension looks great. i hope it works well enough to justify all the effort youve put into it.

alo, on the shifter. i know the new mustangs use a rail style that moves the stick away from the tranny and bolts it to the floor. maybe you could find one that works with the T56 and move youre forward? you could also consider making your own stick to go in it, where you could position it anywhere in the truck.

last question: you hoing to paint it this summer, or blow it apart after its on the road to do it?

Michael

[syborg tt]

truck looks awesome. I can't wait to go for a ride one day

i've attached a picture of my pedals just to give you reference since it looks like we are both about the same height 5.7

[jerome]

I'm gonna make everything fit, do all the sheetmetal, and then blow it all apart again for paint.

Gotta:
sheetmetal distributor clearance
sheetmetal center firewall inset for bellhousing
sheetmetal driver seat track
sheetmetal passenger seat track
sheetmetal both big holes I made to clear exhaust
sheetmetal old heater holes and all other holes on firewall
reinforce firewall mount for brake/clutch assembly
make pedestal underneath pedals
mount heater
mount radiator and fans
do all brake plumbing
do all coolant plumbing
wire the car
mount fuel pump and filter
measure for driveshaft and order it
finish weld rear suspension tabs
mount rear swaybar bushings
make front steering stops


It is only a matter of a few inches, so I think a new stick could fix the problem, and shouldn't be too hard to make.

yeah, I was in a hurry, just snapping pics, I'm gonna get some better ones today or tomorrow.

Marty: thanks for the pic. kinda confirms that I need to make some sort of platform. My problem is that the pedal assembly can't be mounted any lower because it has to clear the steering column, and only my toes reach the pedal with heel on the ground instead of ball of foot. Combine that with the gas pedal being so low, the platform really makes sense, because the gas pedal can be brought up to the level of the platform.

Thanks for the comments guys

Jerome

[GMracer]

way cool project man! good to see another trucker!

[greencactus3]

goddamn im jealous.

i cant wait till mine is rolling too.

either your dad is tiny or our trucks actually have a lot of room in them without any interior lol

is your brakes all a kit from wilwood? balance bar etc?
when did that go in?

[jerome]

Ryo, everything is from wilwood, go to their site, click products, pedal assemblies. balance bar and everything is included, you just buy the three master cylinders that you need. And read below...you won't be jealous anymore hahaha.

------------------------------

I made a big mistake...a HUGE mistake. When measuring the center of the wheelwell on the bed, relative to the mounting holes, I transferred the measurement to the frame backwards. As a result, I inadvertently shortened my wheelbase 4 inches. :pat: :hmm:This is a huge problem, and I have two choices I can make.

1. Redo sheetmetal by cutting off front of bed and moving it forward, need to rework the frame mounts for the bed to move them forward. Cut off a couple inches off the back of the frame. This will shorten the overall length of the truck and leave the wheelbase 4 inches short.

Advantages: better turning radius and response, better weight distribution, can reduce gap between cab and bed

Additional Cost: $100 in metal for bed brackets, sheetmetal, seam sealer, cutting wheels, etc.

2. Redo rear suspension, moving front susp. crossmember back, getting a longer upper link made, cutting off battery mount and putting battery somewhere else, moving shock tabs and crossmember back, getting a 2-piece driveshaft instead of a 1-piece (b/c too long for 1-piece), box frame further back.

Advantages: 1/2"-1" more axle clearance in bump, car looks normal
Additional Cost: $80 for upper link, $200 additional for 2piece shaft, $100 in metal to redo brackets


Can anybody tell me the advantages/disadvantages of a shortened wheelbase other than the obvious turning radius and better weight distribution?

Right now, I like #1 cause of the advantages (i think?) of a shortened wheelbase, no additional work now, lower cost, and less work.

However, I am not decided cause #2 (redoing it) is clearly the "right" way to build it. I am just hoping this is a "lucky" mistake...

So which should I choose, guys?

Jerome

PS...a bit confused on wheelbase numbers...when I measure, I get 113, but a S10 is quoted at 108??? That would mean I lengthened the wheelbase, but I know I shortened it. The front is stock lower arms, SPC uppers, AFX spindle...I don't see how that could move the wheelbase that much. Either the quoted wheelbase is measured differently, or I am very very confused/wrong.

EDIT: man, do I feel like an idiot...I have a longbed S10...who woulda thunk it...greencactus, we can be longbed buddies now. (except I may be shortening it...I know...I know...) And if I shorten it, it gives me a wheelbase of 113 vs. 108 of a shortbed and 117 of a longbed. So getting a shortbed won't help either.

bonus option #3 put the bed on backwards, everything works out cause thats the way stupid me measured it.

[MrQuick]

I'd cut it 6" before the rear suspension crossmember and add a 4" section to it...maybe "Z" it for more low low. Or add 2" to the frame front and rear of the cab and raise it 1 3/4". Drop cab.

[Twentyover]

Jerome- we were chatting last night-

If you shorten the box, the frame will still be the same length, sticking 4" out past the box.

Another complication

[greencactus3]

ohhhhhh **** dude.

not sure if it applies but since i thought of it, 2nd gen longbeds use 1pc aluminum driveshafts. that can get shortened a bit and you can benefit from the slightly less rotational mass.

changing the wheelbase does everything you mentioned, but since you designed the geometry for a specific wheelbase, your numbers will be thrown off from how you designed it.. how much it gets off i can't tell ya.

but LOL at you having a longbed. how could you not know?

at this point i think you should think lopping off the rear couple inches from the frame and workign the bed on.

cutting off everything, rewelding, etc AGAIN will make your attention suffer, and even if you dont mean to you might lose focus and rush, etc etc
you got too close to being 'done' that going that far backwards may hurt your quality.
not to mention all that extra heat going into the metal.

[jerome]

yeah, haha how could I not know I had a longbed, right? I'm laughing at the mistake now...the problem was staring me in the face. It's ok though I've thought most everythng through, and the mistake was actually kind of fortunate, because a longbed wheelbase isn't the best for something like autocross. I'll still be longer than a shortbed, but not as long as a longbed.

I will work on getting everything driving, and then I'll put the bed on and see how much to lop off the front of it. I don't think it'll look too funny. Wheelbase is still 5 inches longer than a shortbed. This way, I can cut off just enough to get a good bed to cab gap like marty did with syborg tt. I can call it a "custom shortened wheelbase" haha.

I have plenty of room for suspension adjustment, I just need to plug in the numbers into the code I wrote, and it's pretty easy to figure out which hole to put the bolt in.

As for cutting off the back of the frame, that is no problem. There is a section that is straight, just have to drill a hole to put a bolt through to the bed, and cut off however much. I have a roll pan, so bumper mounts are not a concern. Limits my selection of bolt-in trailer hitches, but hey, don't think that was a concern in the first place.

[jerome]

pics as promised, not ride height though...about 2 inches higher spring adjusters are still not adjusted and no weight either

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101171354-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=171354)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101171353-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=171353)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101171351-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=171351)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101171362-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=171362)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/6101171364-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=171364)

and I know front wheels are switched...

[greencactus3]

looks good for sure!

i dunno if this has been covered or not but rear swaybar gonna happen?

[jerome]

I'll use a splined bar w/arms. There are tabs on the axle for the endlinks, and bushings are on their way in the mail, but I won't buy a bar/arms until I know how much bar I need after driving it.

[SaturnVUEguy]

...I have plenty of room for suspension adjustment, I just need to plug in the numbers into the code I wrote, and it's pretty easy to figure out which hole to put the bolt in...Care to post this code you came up with, or at least let us know how you came up with it? Sounds like a great idea, but I wouldn't really even know where to start

[jerome]

%x=out
%y=forward
%z=height
%a=axle f=frame
%l=lower u=upper

%INPUTS
cgh=24; %center of gravity height
wb=109; %wheelbase
axh=13; %axle height
al=[-22.25 22.25;0 0;8 8]; %lower links axle coordinates
au=[13;0;18]; %upper link axle coordinates
fl=[-8.5 8.5;28 28;10.5 10.5]; %lower links frame coordinates
fu=[13;13;17]; %upper link frame coordinates
pb=[0;-6;13]; %panhard coordinates
mc=3000; %mass of car
mr=250; %mass of rearend unit
axr=4.10; %rearend gear ratio

%ANALYSIS
mu=(fu(3)-au(3))/(fu(2)-au(2)); %slope of uppers
ml=(fl(3,1)-al(3,1))/(fl(2,1)-al(2,1)); %slope of lowers
in=[-mu 1;-ml 1]\[au(3)-mu*al(2);al(3,1)-ml*al(2,1)]; %intersection
SVSA=in(1) %side view swing arm
antisquat=(in(2)/in(1))/(cgh/wb)*100 %antisquat percentage
pvcy=(fl(2,1)-al(2,1))*al(1,2)/(al(1,2)-fl(1,2)); %plan view convergence y coordinate
pvcz=(fl(3,1)-al(3,1))*pvcy/(fl(2,1)-al(2,1))+al(3,1) %plan view convergence z coordinate
offset=(au(3)/(al(3,1))*axh*mc)/(axr*(mc-mr)*(cgh/wb+abs((au(3)-fu(3))/(fu(2)-au(2))))) %third link offset necessary for 100% cancellation
conv_angle=atand((fl(1,1)-al(1,1))/(fl(2,1)-al(2,1)))

%PLOTS
subplot(2,1,1) %plan view
plot([al(1,1),fl(1,1)],[al(2,1),fl(2,1)],'b') %lower driver
hold on
plot([al(1,2),fl(1,2)],[al(2,2),fl(2,2)],'r') %lower passenger
plot([au(1),fu(1)],[au(2),fu(2)],'k') %upper
title('Plan View (top is front)')
subplot(2,1,2) %side view
plot([al(2,2),fl(2,2)],[al(3,2),fl(3,2)],'r') %lower arms (uses passenger numbers)
hold on
plot([au(2),fu(2)],[au(3),fu(3)],'k') %upper arm
plot([al(2,2),wb],[0,cgh],'c') %anti-squat line
plot([fu(2),in(1)],[fu(3),in(2)],':k') %upper extension to intersection
plot([fl(2,1),in(1)],[fl(3,1),in(2)],':r') %lower extension to intersection
plot([pb(2),pvcy],[pb(3),pvcz],'m') %roll axis
th=linspace(0,2*pi);
plot(13*sin(th),13+13*cos(th))
plot(3.25*sin(th),13+3.25*cos(th))
title('Side View (right is front)')
axis([subplot(211),subplot(212)],'equal')

you can run it in matlab if you have it. I basically just calculated roll steer, side view swing arm lengths, and antisquat numbers for a given set of arm lengths and angles. You can then change the angles and see how these numbers react in bump and droop. A bit messy, but it works.

[SaturnVUEguy]

Thats quite the complex code. How much have you had to use it? I'm guessing a bit since you have the suspension set up already. Hope this all works out for you with the wheelbase/bed being off. I'm sure you'll get it right though, judging by the rest of the project

[jerome]

haven't used it recently, just for planning it. as you can see the wheelbase variable still says 109 for when I thought it was a shortbed haha

I will have to use it again to figure out initial settings for first drive though

[Eric Howell]

Any updates?

[Dogsofjune]

Wow, lotsa work involved. Interested to see the finished product.

[jerome]

taking the gmat(standardized test) tomorrow, so I've just been studying for the past two weeks.

The thrash to get it driving begins tomorrow night, goal is to drive in two and a half weeks!

stay tuned, hopefully I'll have some good updates in the coming weeks.

[wiedemab]

Wow - I haven't seen Matlab code since my engineering days back at Purdue - 2002.

Brings back some fond memories and some horrible nights in the computer lab writing code.

Keep up the good work.

Later

[Twentyover]

ummm...lessee

We were using TTY's and punch cards running basic and fortran, and computers filled air conditioned rooms the size of my house.

We went to the 'computer center' with a pile of punch cards......

[andrewb70]

taking the gmat(standardized test) tomorrow, so I've just been studying for the past two weeks.

The thrash to get it driving begins tomorrow night, goal is to drive in two and a half weeks!

stay tuned, hopefully I'll have some good updates in the coming weeks.

Good luck on the GMAT. I took it in May. Eat breakfast before you go. Take your time. Take a s**t before you go. Take all of the breaks that are given to you.

Andrew

[jtodd71]

Subscribes. Any updates?

[jerome]

back home for Thanksgiving, will have some progress this week.

[72LeMans]

may i suggest a solution for your distributor problem. i noticed you have a hei large cap style distributor. why not sell it and buy yourself a msd small cap pro billet distributor.

[bonecrrusher]

I just read the whole thread, I'm digging it alot.

I kind of LOL'd when you discovered teh frame problem, but it looks like you got it resolved.

As for the Gmat, thats a crappy test, trust me. But you'll get through it and eventually get through grad school as well.

Good luck!

-Craig-

[jerome]

hooked up all the electrical to try to start it tomorrow.

Cranked it over a few times with the starter and all of the sudden it won't turn over anymore. It definitely turned over more than one revolution (more like 5 seconds), so its not like a rod doesn't have clearance.

Took out all the plugs, unhooked the serpentine, undid all the rockers. Motor still won't budge.

Anyone have ideas before I take it apart tomorrow to check for a foreign object in one of the cylinders?

[Joshstix]

If you have a transmission on there it may be the starter lokced out against the ring gear or some other forreign object wedged in the ring gear.

[dusterbd13]

ave you checked the onnections, attey, etc? if youre not gttingvoltage, it wont crank. try it right at the starter ith a fresh battery and some jumper cables, etc. hot wire the coil, etc. if is not internal, should crank.

also, yure using a t56, right? mak sue that its not caught betwen gears. also check to make sure that your cutch is fully disengaging.

michael

[jerome]

josh, you are the man, first post and you nailed it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/6101214091-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=214091)

Thanks, I was about to tear the engine apart haha.

Live and learn right?

[jerome]

o_gnh3w_Hns

[novanutcase]

Ya gotta be psyched!!!

John

[jerome]

Ya gotta be psyched!!!

John


I've had a perma-grin from ear to ear for the last few hours haha

I didn't let the engine break-in quite yet, ran it for 5-7 minutes at 2500 rpm and cut it after a water temp warning light sensor and a water temp sensor started leaking a bit of water. Neighbors probably wouldn't be too happy either with 30min @ 2500rpm with open headers.

You can't tell in the video, but I have a pair of old truck headers mounted upside down to break it in. Didn't want to mess up my ceramic headers.

Had no spark at first, increased the gage of the wire from battery to distributor and got spark. Next, the distributor was set tdc on exhaust instead of compression. Next, it was too retarded to run more than a couple pops. Re-stabbed the distributor (couldn't advance anymore, vacuum cylinder hit the fuel rail), and I fired right up. Whole process took a few hours, my first time building/firing an engine with nobody knowledgeable to help, but it worked out ok!

Leaving for school again tomorrow, but I'll be back at it again in a few weeks, see if I can't get it driving by the end of winter break.

Jerome

[novanutcase]

WOO-HOO!!! Rock and Roll!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

John

[HectorM52]

Schweet. I can't wait to see it rolling!!

[jerome]

Fired up the engine today to actually break it in, but ran into some problems. Drivers header would have an intermittent white puff, probably from a single cylinder. Header had oil in it after the run. For reference, passenger header was dry.

Dipstick was a few inches above normal, oil was milky. Seems like I have a water leak. When I pulled the pcv valve out of the valve cover a constant stream of white steam shot out. It was enough steam that it came out a little bit through the pcv breather on the other side, meaning it was more crankcase pressure than manifold vacuum.

I'm gonna drain the oil tomorrow to see if there's water at the bottom of the pan. Before I do anything drastic, I'll redo the head bolts with thread sealer. Does anyone know where else to check?

[jerome]

doesn't look too good. pulled all the head bolts and sealed them with permatex thread sealant. changed the oil. water came out, and then oil came out. filled it up again with oil. fired it up, and no more steam from valve covers, so the head bolts sealed up, but this time i got a white frothy oil. yesterday, it was just water, and oil. This time it was a milkshake, so I think i have something very bad happening. I'm gonna pull heads and intake tomorrow.

[HectorM52]

Aiiieeeee...

I'm inclined to say it's a blown head gasket.

But I'm not your most knowledgeable engine guy so take it's for what's worth.

[novanutcase]

Aiiieeeee...

I'm inclined to say it's a blown head gasket.

But I'm not your most knowledgeable engine guy so take it's for what's worth.

I'd have to agree, sounds like a blown head gasket!:scared:

John

[Nate K]

Aiiieeeee...

I'm inclined to say it's a blown head gasket.

But I'm not your most knowledgeable engine guy so take it's for what's worth.

May also be a cracked head. Sorry to hear about your problem. Good luck! Nate

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_1769Large-1.jpg
not a good sign...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_1779Large-1.jpg
a little piece of metal stamped into the head...left in there by some idiot (probably me)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/IMG_1777Large-1.jpg
possibly cracks in the cylinder wall?

It would be a huge coincidence if there were cracks and a foreign object unrelated to each other and both in the same cylinder. I'm fairly positive that those are cracks, do those look like cracks to you?

I'm looking at getting the block sleeved, does anyone have better options? Also, do I need to get the head worked on to remove the nick from the foreign object? I have no idea what it is, it imprinted itself on both the cylinder and the head, I'm not sure if it is something from the head or if it was indeed something I dropped in.

What's the least expensive 383 or bigger shortblock on the net?

[HectorM52]

Blocks are a dime a dozen. Get a good block from your machine shop, get them do do all the work necessary to make it tip-top then swap all the parts over.

Easy.

[bbcc]

Blocks are a dime a dozen. Get a good block from your machine shop, get them do do all the work necessary to make it tip-top then swap all the parts over.

Easy.

X2. That is the easiest and cheapest route. Before that though, take the block to your machinest, and ask them to mag the bores and the deck.

Ryer

[73supreme455]

Hey I'm having very similar engine problems. Im also weighing all my options. I been researching all the machine shops in my area lately.

[Memphis]

Bump for a cool build, anything new?

[jerome]

Memphis, nice to see someone from the pacific nw

Got the cracked cylinder re-sleeved
Decided to get all new pistons and rods

Old combo was a 5.65 stock 400 rod w/ cast aluminum TRW 350 dome pistons for about 11:1 compression

New combo will be a 6.0 scat rod w/ forged aluminum KB domes for about 10.2:1 compression

New combo will probably make more power on pump gas, because I can have more room for timing advance without detonation. Also will have block decked to get 0.040 quench height so that may find some power as well.

Currently just the bare frame w/ suspension is sitting in my garage. This is a good chance to redo the brake lines, I don't like the way I bent them last time.

I'll get more pictures of the engine when I assemble it.

Jerome

[twosaturns]

nice to see you haven't abandoned it, I've been following it since the beginning.

[HectorM52]

Cool - I forgot about this one. Keep it coming!

[novanutcase]

I really love this build. Can't wait to see more progress.

John

[Memphis]

Good to see you are still going on this. Where are you getting your machining done at?

[sinned]

Jerome, I'm curious. You used the tall adjusters on the front, where are they set? Towards the lower side or the higher side? I am going to be running these on a project in the future and would like the end ride height about 2-3" lower than you are sitting now. Could you adjust out a few more inches from the tall adjusters?

[bbcc]

I'll pipe in on this. The adjuster only has about 2.5" of usable travel. The cup half of the adjuster can be cut to whatever length you like, and you can fine tune with the adjustable part. The best way to approach this is to mock up with the adjusters at their shortest. Find out how much you will need to cut off the cup. Then add 1" to the amount you cut off. Keep in mind that you will want to have the spring seat roughly in the middle of the thread when you are at the desired ride height. This will ensure that you have plenty adjustment either way for adjusting corner weights. It will take a few go arounds of mocking up, measuring and disassembling. Hope this helps some.

Cheers
Ryer

[sinned]

I'll pipe in on this. The adjuster only has about 2.5" of usable travel. The cup half of the adjuster can be cut to whatever length you like, and you can fine tune with the adjustable part. The best way to approach this is to mock up with the adjusters at their shortest. Find out how much you will need to cut off the cup. Then add 1" to the amount you cut off. Keep in mind that you will want to have the spring seat roughly in the middle of the thread when you are at the desired ride height. This will ensure that you have plenty adjustment either way for adjusting corner weights. It will take a few go arounds of mocking up, measuring and disassembling. Hope this helps some.

Cheers
Ryer
I'm pretty familiar with how the adjusters are used, hell I practically pioneered their use in PT cars. Each application is very specific as to whether the short or tall adjusters are better suited depending on desired ride height, which is why I asked Jeorme specificaly on his application.

Not a noobie style question though thanks for chiming in.

[Twentyover]

Sinned- were you the guy w/ the elCamino that was out by Lancaster? I was using your website as kind of a template for wghere I was going on my G body. Does the website still exist?

Sorry for going OT, jerome

[bbcc]

Cool man. Ya, wasn't sure about your knowledge on the subject. Usualy safe to assume the guy is new.

I have damn near the exact combination Jerome used. Without scaling the truck yet I have the adjusters at 1.25 from bottomed out. The truck is not at full weight on the front yet either.

[sinned]

Sinned- were you the guy w/ the elCamino that was out by Lancaster? I was using your website as kind of a template for wghere I was going on my G body. Does the website still exist?

Sorry for going OT, jerome

Web is down but I still have the site saved for future use. I will put it back up with my new project pretty soon. I'll post a link later.

[Twentyover]

Thanks sinned

[jerome]

Memphis-machining done at Cope Brothers in Parkland/Spanaway. It's in the industrial park w/ the line-x on the side of 512

Sinned, I think in the pictures, there's roughly 1" left in the cup (I cut of 2 or so inches off the cup). The adjusters are turned so that the ring is seated on the cup, meaning it is as low as it will go without cutting more.

Full weight isnt on yet, so it will go lower than in the pictures.

Update on the status of the project - I started a job in July on the East coast, so there won't be substantial progress on the project within the next two years at least. It's a downer, but the project will get finished. I'll have a little bit of time at home during holidays, so there will be some progress, but not a ton.

Jerome

[Tig]

Very cool project. You have done a great job, looks insane.
Congrats on the job to.
Lookin forward to future updates

[06RangerSTX]

I love this project, keep up the great work!!!!! cannot wait until it is done!!!

[Tig]

Any updates?
Happy Holidays

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/8610235939_ae389e14aa_c-1.jpg

Having lived in NYC for the last 4 years with no access to a garage and with the project at home in WA, I have decided to bite the bullet and hire professionals finish the project. Randy Parker (Parker's Race Shoppe) in Puyallup, WA will be doing most of the work. He builds tube frame dragsters for a living, so I am sure he will do a great job with the remaining chassis fab and fix some of my lesser quality work.

A preview of the next few weeks:

Front suspension:
front coilover conversion
Lee 670 steering box
sway bar

Chassis:
new mid-chassis bracing
new fuel tank mount
new battery mount
6 point roll bar

Rear suspension:
splined sway bar

[andrewb70]

Looking forward to more details on this build. Move out of NYC...LOL

Andrew

[syborg tt]

That is awesome news I am looking forward to seeing this truck complete.

[jerome]

Getting started - sitting at ride height:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/8692567621_bd4efb7d59_o-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/8693685360_d97fc8e4b9_o-1.jpg

Randy connected the section that I had boxed to the factory boxed area
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/8692567601_36a1426bd9_o-1.jpg

Next steps:
Rear suspension will be moved backwards to correct the unintentional shortening of the wheelbase that I had done
Re-do of gas tank mount
Re-do of transmission crossmember

[syborg tt]

and the progress begins

[HectorM52]

Tell them to swap to an Explorer Rack and Pinion while they're at it. Check out this thread...

http://www.blazinlow.com/forum/showthread.php?20784-rack-and-pinion-pic-!

Here are some of the pics for that thread...

http://s-seriesforum.com/gallery/Rack-Pinion

[jerome]

Adam - thanks for the suggestion, but a Lee 670 steering box is already on the way. I figure a good recirculating ball setup is proven and can give just as good feel and performance as a rack and pinion without some of the R&D involved with getting the rack setup right.

Randy made a jig to locate the upper control arm mounts, cut the spring pocket off of the frame and welded the frame rail up straight, factory-style. He then added a new upper control arm mount:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8741332331_565aa27dae_c-1.jpg

Pockets were CNC-machined into the plates to accept oval offset inserts to adjust the pickup points for anti-dive:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8741333113_2be33682b1_c-1.jpg

Unfinished Spohn lower control arm where lower coilover bracket will be mounted. Upper coilover mount has not been designed yet. Lower mount will be as close to the lower ball joint as possible and upper mount will locate the coilover as vertical as possible.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8741331989_2083c9ff6e_c-1.jpg

I brought the cab and bed to the shop:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8742449230_549e397bd8_c-1.jpg

We put the bed and body on to locate where the rearend should be. I had mistakenly shortened the wheelbase when doing the rear suspension the first time, so we will move the suspension rearwards to center the wheels in the wheel arches.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8742447944_099821a5f3_c-1.jpg

A shot of the interior:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8741332551_3b97974e94_c-1.jpg

[Tig]

Its about time you updated this, hah.
Amazing work, everything looks great.

[jerome]

My friend Karlo installed 4 corner Walbro pickups in the fuel tank to prevent fuel starvation under cornering when fuel levels are less than full.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8820704678_68c82e1ef6_c-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8810117847_50d23a26d1_c-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/8810117857_38b271392e_c-1.jpg

Anybody have tech on whether installing fuel foam or other baffling like this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/14907722-post1.html) is worth the trouble? The 4 corner pickups should eliminate any fuel delivery issues so the additional foam or baffling would only help reduce weight transfer from fuel slosh. The downside is foam breaks down and either solution would require a rather expensive tube-style fuel level sender replacement for the float type sender currently installed.

[dusterbd13]

so what all dod you get to make the pickup system? i want to build one, and youre the first guy ive seen actually do it. id rather copy what you used and tweak it for my tank than reinvent the wheel...

and from what im thinking, the foam will not be necessary with the 4 corner pickup. i cant see weight changing enough to make a difference without it, and fuel sloch problems are almost eliminated with the 4 corner system.

michael

[Motown 454]

Nice job.

[jerome]

so what all dod you get to make the pickup system? i want to build one, and youre the first guy ive seen actually do it. id rather copy what you used and tweak it for my tank than reinvent the wheel...

and from what im thinking, the foam will not be necessary with the 4 corner pickup. i cant see weight changing enough to make a difference without it, and fuel sloch problems are almost eliminated with the 4 corner system.

michael

There are 3 walbro MP-12 pickups and 1 MP-13 pickup. You'll need an access hole (the fill neck flange on most tanks is big enough) and will need to assemble the tubes together inside the tank.

Here is the description from the vendor (http://www.liquidironindustries.com/product.php?productid=17581&cat=273&page=1):


These Walbro in-tank pickups have a 70 micron mesh that serve as a pre-filter. When submerged, the pickups flow fuel through as normal. If there is a shortage of fuel where the pickup is, they shut preventing air from entering the fuel system. Generally they are plumbed in systems of 3 or 4 pickups, usually one in each corner depending on the size of the fuel cell. Tall skinny fuel cells such as RCI’s 2161a can get away with just two pickups. If there is any chance that the vehicle these are installed in might run completely empty, Walbro recommends at least one pickup in the system to have a bleed hole. MP-13s and MP-15s have a bleed hole in them, MP-12, MP-14, and MP-16 do not.

MP-12s and MP-13s are dead end style pickups meaning there is a single 5/16” fitting on the top. MP-14s, 15s, and 16s, are flow through style and are meant to be installed inline in the system. The MP-16s are a 90* flow through.

These pickups are approximately 3 inches in diameter and 2 inches tall.

They make kits for all the RCI tanks but I am sure you could tell them the dimensions of your tank and the pickup location and have them send you a custom kit. They aren't cheap though and if you are starting from scratch I would fully price out a fuel safe or ATL cell since that will have a bladder for additional safety. This route is still cheaper but not by as much if you start adding foam and a tube-style sender.

I'm still working out how to get the fuel to the carb. I'm considering a Bosch 044 external pump to an Aeromotive 13204 regulator (bypass). Anybody used the Bosch pump before or have other recommendations? I am thinking of doing an EFI pump and a return line so that it is easier to go EFI in the future. The thinking behind doing an oem style pump is that they should be quiet and reliable while being considerably cheaper than something like the Aeromotive A1000.

[dusterbd13]

so what did you use for the brass and t-fittings? inverted flare fittings and brass usinions from gas water heaters? im not starting from scratch. im starting with a stock tank that im converting to EFI. but its a used stock tank.

actually, iull be doing this twice. once with the 70 duster, once with the 64 el camino.

[jerome]

New center structure:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/9303109876_3daca2c4c1_c-1.jpg

Clearance for straighter exhaust path

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/9300326323_d2990866f6_c-1.jpg

New fuel tank mount (straps to be added above):

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/9300328773_1a8b93bfef_c-1.jpg

New rear coilover crossmember

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/9300330423_e4ebdce72f_c-1.jpg

Front coilover mount with quad adjustable varishocks:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/9303144554_c9f2a07d14_c-1.jpg

[silvermonte]

Im so glad to see how you did your frame. That is exactly how im setting up the front half of the frame and I wasnt sure if that was a smart way to do it or not. A few more cross braces will be in there but your not done with your frame yet either.

[Tig]

Wow, that looks great, awesome job.
Keep up the good work man.

[silvermonte]

I was looking at my frame this weekend and Im wondering what are you going to do for a E-brake? Id like to keep the stock set up but without getting over fancy I dont see how that would work. I think Ill find a hand brake to put on the trans tunnel and see how that works but I was wondering what your thoughts on that are.

[jerome]

I was looking at my frame this weekend and Im wondering what are you going to do for a E-brake? Id like to keep the stock set up but without getting over fancy I dont see how that would work. I think Ill find a hand brake to put on the trans tunnel and see how that works but I was wondering what your thoughts on that are.

I will probably use the lokar trans tunnel mounted one

[jerome]

Rear anti-roll bar with 3 inches of adjustment

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/9783978176_807e7848f4_c-1.jpg

[Carl @ Chassisworks]

Hey Jerome, I just found your thread. Glad to see those Q4R VariShocks mocked up. Can't wait to see what you do with this truck, looks like it's gonna be awesome!


Front coilover mount with quad adjustable varishocks:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/9303144554_c9f2a07d14_c-1.jpg

[syborg tt]

Man I look at this thread and I really miss my truck. Hurry Up I need to see this thing on the road.

[BLACKLIST]

badass truck. love what your setting it up for. keep updated please.

[jerome]

Thanks for the comments guys. Looking forward to some faster progress now that racing season is over for Randy (my builder). Here is a pic of the fuel tank hold-down. You can also kind of see the exhaust snaking around it, unfortunately no pictures of it yet.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/10193409525_0e1da885e3_c-1.jpg

[syborg tt]

Keep em coming

[jerome]

Keep em coming

Just got this picture of the exhaust from Randy. If you look at the top of the picture under the cab, you can see a pressure wave termination box. I've put it 40" behind the collectors (as determined by Pipemax simulation). It's an attempt to have a tuned secondary length that maximizes power by taking advantage of exhaust pressure wave reflections to scavenge exhaust. The concept is that the exhaust "thinks" it is entering free air when it enters the big chamber. This is the theoretical end of the secondary and everything after that does not affect the pressure wave reflection characteristics anymore. Mufflers are Borla XR-1's.

You can read more about pressure wave theory here. It may not be worth much horsepower, but I've decided to build it in after reading up alot on it. Unclear how it will change the exhaust sound, but I'm guessing it will sound similar to an x-pipe exhaust. Happy to explain more if you guys are interested.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0505em_exh/viewall.html

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/10198148385_5d2fbb3383_b-1.jpg

[gutt_72]

Anybody have tech on whether installing fuel foam or other baffling like this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/14907722-post1.html) is worth the trouble? The 4 corner pickups should eliminate any fuel delivery issues so the additional foam or baffling would only help reduce weight transfer from fuel slosh. The downside is foam breaks down and either solution would require a rather expensive tube-style fuel level sender replacement for the float type sender currently installed.

I would definitely utilize the baffles from Wayne at Alltech. They are absolutely worth it, a half-full tank of fuel hammering back and forth is not good for weight distribution nor is it safe. Stay away from foam at all costs!! Wayne's baffles do the job and will not break down overtime. My buddy has had them in service in his Ultra4 car for almost a year now with zero degradation.

[jerome]

Transmission tunnel taking shape:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/10353851315_3e25a77783_b-1.jpg

[jerome]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096355254_6169295282_b-1.jpg

Brake cooling duct plate mounted on the spindle, replacing the ABS speed sensor mount plate.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096252885_e124f44a53_b-1.jpg

Went to Wilwood SL4 (4 piston) calipers instead of stock C5 calipers for ease and cost of pad replacement. Staying with C5 rotors for low cost of replacement.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096322796_f7239491a7_b-1.jpg

New 670 steering box from Lee Mfg mounted. S10 steering boxes only have 3 bolts, so a sleeve was added to the frame to accomodate the 4th bolt on the 670 boxes. Above it you can see the steering pump that was converted to an external reservoir and matched to the box. This is a 12.7:1 box, it is 6.5lbs lighter and it has some rack and pinion technology in the valve that is supposed to make it feel much more like a modern rack than the steering boxes that came in older muscle cars. I don't fully understand the tech, but these get positive reviews across the board.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096198665_cbe768fa73_b-1.jpg

Here is a shot of the pressure wave termination box. It is a hollow chamber that is 16X the volume of a cylinder. It has 3 internal ribs that should keep it from getting blown apart by the exhaust pulses and resulting vibration. 16X is the general guideline on minimum volume for it to be effective at stopping the exhaust pressure wave. The idea is that it gives you a secondary length that is unaffected by anything after the box. So you could put whatever muffler or tailpipe length as long as it is capable of sufficient flow to support the engine. The actual secondary length was approximately 40", which is what Pipemax spit out as optimal. I have no way of verifying if all of this works, but I figure if I am going to build an exhaust system, I might as well build one that is theoretically optimal (setting aside the shorty headers).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096395373_23a6bf1a16_b-1.jpg

Clearance needed in cab and frame to allow the headers to work

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096252366_bbea1c7027_b-1.jpg

You can see the drop down battery box on the left of the picture. It is very far back, but it will be protected somewhat by the trailer hitch. Trading better F/R weight distribution for less responsive polar moment of inertia. Fuel tank has a round tube cage underneath it and straps and hold down bolts securing it from above. It will only be serviceable by removing the bed (6 bolts and 2 people).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096151335_c3c921f6b4_b-1.jpg

Exhaust routing is very tight between the corners of the fuel tank and the tires. You can also see the roll bar in this shot. There are 3" of adjustment along the arms and rearend brackets to allow for rate change.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096225326_9465d28e4b_b-1.jpg

You can see the two Borla XR-1 mufflers in this shot. These are the multicore ones which are supposed to be a bit quieter than the sportsman models. I am hoping these will be quiet enough for daily driving, but if they are not, I am trying to figure out a way to use an electric exhaust cutout valve in-line to try to quiet it down. I would put one in-line on the driver's side exhaust after the termination box. When closed, it would force all the exhaust through the passenger side muffler. I don't know enough about the physics of sound to know whether this would actually make it quieter, but it will not be hard to plug one side to test this out once the engine is running.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096362044_7c7400a915_b-1.jpg

Transmission tunnel welded up

The driveshaft has not been ordered yet because the current driveline angles are not going to work unless I use a CV shaft joint at the front of the driveshaft. The engine is currently at 5 degrees down front to back and with the pinion at 3 degrees up towards the front, the driveshaft would be parallel to the ground. This means 5 degrees of working angle at the front and 3 at the back of the shaft. The recommended range is 1 - 3 degrees. Unfortunately, the transmission tunnel won't allow the back of the transmission to come up any, so the engine mounts will have to be reworked to come down. I will shoot for 1 degree working angles at both front and back. Because of the length of the shaft (63" from output shaft to face of companion flange) and the 4:10 gears, to get a reasonable top speed (above 100mph), I'll need to go with an expensive carbon fiber shaft. The other alternative is a 2 piece shaft, but the potential for added vibration, the cost of fabricating a carrier bearing crossmember and the extra weight make the carbon fiber shaft a more attractive alternative.

Next step is to get the roll bar installed. I have gone back and forth on roll bar mounting. It is tricky because it will need to go through the cab where the body mount bushing is:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/11096301506_82c44211ac_b-1.jpg

What I have decided is that I will have the roll bar tube pierce the top side of the floor and extend to the underside of the "pedestal" that rests on the body mount bushing. I will weld a plate with 4 perimeter bolt holes to the bottom of the body mount pedestal. The roll bar will weld to the top side of this mounting plate. A custom mount will have to be made from the frame with a matching 4-bolt rectangular plate. The effect of this will be that the roll bar will be connected to the frame with 4 bolts at each corner. In a perfect world, I want to keep the body removeable and retain the body mount bushing. However, the compromise for a rigid roll bar mounting is increased vibration from not having a bushing.

2 Cobra Suzuka seats have been ordered and should be delivered in the next couple of weeks. I went with the wide width for comfort daily driving even though I am 5' 9", 150lbs. I ordered them in black vinyl for durability.

After the seats are installed, it is time for fuel system and brake plumbing before it all gets blown apart to paint/powdercoat the frame and get ready for final assembly.

[silvermonte]

Its been a long time since ive read thru your thread. Why are your headers in such a goofy spot? It almost looks like your engine is off set to the passenger side. Good work on the gas tank,Ive been spending alot of time thinking about how to do this on my s10 and Im going to have to steal a few of your ideas.

[jerome]

I used these mounts:
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_S10-V8ConvsnMnts.html

If you look earlier in the thread you can see pics of the original exhaust I did and it is possible to get it routed without having to clearance the frame or body. It's just a straighter shot that I have now.

[jerome]

Cobra Suzuka (wide version) seats arrived. Custom ordered in black vinyl and without logo.

Installed with Planted aluminum side brackets and Cobra sliders. The planted side brackets were much cheaper than the competition and look to provide a great range of adjustability. The sliders needed an extra hole drilled into them and the grab handle was too narrow, so Randy bent up a piece of 4130 to replace the grab handle.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/12234503175_96cca9590a_o-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/12235084536_317f013d2f_o-1.jpg

[syborg tt]

I really like those seats.

[jerome]

From the factory, the cab is mounted on rubber bushings that support sheet metal standoff boxes welded to the underside of the cab floor. Unfortunately, the rubber bushings are exactly where the landing points of the roll bar main hoop and door bars should be.

In order to weld in a roll bar that can bolt to the frame, those standoff boxes were cut off so the cab floor is flat in that area (but still multiple layers of sheet metal). A plate is welded to the top side of the floor with perimeter bolt holes. New cab mounts were welded to the frame with matching plates so that the cab may be bolted to the new mounts. The roll bar will then be welded to the plates on the top side of the cab floor.

Rear cab mount:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/12677640943_24dafbdf7e_c-1.jpg

Front cab mount:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/12677504645_70148d923b_c-1.jpg

Roll bar:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/12682989693_b35531b26f-1.jpg

[jerome]

Cobra Suzuka seats (black vinyl) mounted on sliders:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/12235084536_5f601f9817_c-1.jpg

Door bars have enough room so that they don't get in the way of elbows:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/13426012954_766b44c849_c-1.jpg

Rear bars can be unbolted with the tube junction and a plate in the bed to allow the bed to be removed:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/13880556605_8e75b900d0_o-1.jpg

Roll bar finished:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/13884553469_d6afca2c0f_c-1.jpg

Throttle pedal mounted:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/13425644565_08b0df4708_c-1.jpg

Throttle cable:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/13582494675_4bbc1b665d_o-1.jpg

Air conditioning compressor and clearanced valve cover:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/14071158745_d5bc4353c4_c-1.jpg

Cowl air box and air flow director carb insert:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/13995609906_b5f41851bf_o-1.jpg

Air conditioning compressor to be mounted behind glove box:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/14068000722_3fe2ea2709_c-1.jpg

Carbon fiber driveshaft with CV front joint and 1350 u-joints, shot also shows exhaust exit:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/14091218653_04008fa15e_c-1.jpg

Sway bar arms mocked up:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/13985774115_612f984f00_o-1.jpg

[syborg tt]

Looks awesome.

If you put Sonoma GT cladding (which I may donate when you get closer to completion) this would trump Syborg tt for sure

[jerome]

I'd love some cladding, then I could get some wider tires under there! I think the syclone guys are fitting 315s in the back without notching the frame or doing a backhalf. Would need to do alot of work to the bed pieces though to make it fit the longbed. More like a phase 2 type of project.

You probably saw some familiarity in the door bars, I just showed Randy pictures of Syborg's door bars to copy.

[jerome]

Sway bar arm:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/14045613957_4baf66865c_c-1.jpg

Lower a-arm gusseted and with sway bar tabs adjustable for rate.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/14244406905_3e478d4359_c-1.jpg

[jerome]

A minor update, getting closer to driveable. The plan is to make the truck fully driveable, test drive it, make any necessary modifications, and then take it all apart for powdercoating and paint before final re-assembly. Items remaining to be installed before test drive and paint:

Brakes
3/16" hardline
Front MC to line lock to front calipers
Rear MC to rear proportioning valve to rear calipers
In-cabin Wilwood remote adjuster for balance bar
In-cabin Wilwood proportioning valve
Lokar handbrake and cables
New brake cooling duct backing plates (current LG Motorsports ones would force an unworkable hose routing)

Fuel
1/2" hardline feed and return
PTFE flexline around pump and fuel log (maybe used BMRS lines)
Fuel tank to 100 micron filter to Weldon A600-A inline fuel pump to fuel log
Fuel log to Weldon A2040 return regulator to tank
Fuel tank vent system to be determined (rollover vent or air/liquid separator or charcoal canister system)
Fuel tank filler (looking for ideas on a filler location, currently thinking behind taillight)

Wiring
install Summit Racing wiring harness and master disconnect

Steering
install rebuilt tilt column (replacing non-tilt column and adding delay wiper and cruise control)
NRG short hub adapter (GM spline to momo bolt pattern)
Works Bell GTC quick release tilt (for easier entry/exit)
Momo Mod 78 350mm leather steering wheel

Miscellaneous
Rear differential vent
Fire extinguisher system


Core support and fenders mocked up

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/14549965943_c9d2188630_c-1.jpg

You can see a peek of the new carbon fiber driveshaft here

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/14529842785_1baea046e3_c-1.jpg

Roll pan mounted

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/14528392304_48f5019895_c-1.jpg

Cowl air pan version 2 (first version was a bit too thin and warped after welding). It will be covered on top with a clear lexan sheet.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/14549975783_8c12483c87_c-1.jpg

Shot of the front suspension with the inner fenders installed. The brake cooling duct will likely not work, so Randy is looking for another solution that clears the tires at all steering angles and suspension travel.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/14549985423_82437c506e_c-1.jpg

[syborg tt]

Draw the air in through the frame rails and dump it out right at the hub as it's much easier to route then trying to clear everything with the tubing.





Shot of the front suspension with the inner fenders installed. The brake cooling duct will likely not work, so Randy is looking for another solution that clears the tires at all steering angles and suspension travel.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/14549985423_82437c506e_c-1.jpg

[bonecrrusher]

Where is that swaybar arm from?

The part that has the adjustable holes in it - and the splined end and the pinch bolt in it.

The Pfadt arms on my setup are taking a dump (cant replace them as they are out of business) - and that is a very similar design there...

[Motown 454]

Nice project I like the air box.

[jerome]

Draw the air in through the frame rails and dump it out right at the hub as it's much easier to route then trying to clear everything with the tubing.

Thanks for the suggestion, we're looking into it. Good idea, hope we have room there to do it.



Where is that swaybar arm from?

The part that has the adjustable holes in it - and the splined end and the pinch bolt in it.

The Pfadt arms on my setup are taking a dump (cant replace them as they are out of business) - and that is a very similar design there...

They are steel arms from Speedway Engineering (http://www.1speedway.com/Swaybar_Arms.htm), which is the source for most aftermarket companies' sway bar parts. You'll need to bend them to fit and then drill the holes. I believe that specific arm is a 30 degree bend.

[hi_im_sean]

glad to see youre still keeping this thing going jerome. i have been lured back to this thread from searching google for exhaust terminator boxes installed in an s10. its crazy how similar our builds are, you just have more $$ than i, or they would be just about identical :) . im trying to figure out the best placement and packaging, but i cant decide any of that until i get my secondary length figured out. what data does pipemax need? worth the money? or would you mind running a sim for me?

[jerome]

Fuel system done, wiring mostly done. Next step is finishing up some of the remaining fabrication:
Gas filler
Brake cooling ducts
A/C and heat plumbing

After all the cutting and welding is done, the plan is to rough fit the body and test drive it for a while before doing a complete teardown for chassis powdercoating and paint/body before final assembly

Video of first start:


http://vimeo.com/113532750

[Carl @ Chassisworks]

I like it.

[dusterbd13]

which frontccessory drive is that? and what did you need to do to make the sanden compressor firt it?

[85coupe50]

Very nice build. I wanted to do something like this with my 1st gen Ranger. Other projects have gotten in the way.

[jerome]

which frontccessory drive is that? and what did you need to do to make the sanden compressor firt it?

I pulled it from a junkyard from an 80s truck SBC or 4.3L v6 (forget which), but it's also available new (http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/12497697/10002/-1?parentProductId=752514) from GM.

Vintage Air and Classic Auto Air both have brackets that fit them to the GM serpentine system. They should be able to give you the part number if you call, but let me know if you're having trouble finding it, I can dig it up.

Another batch of photos from the same time as the video update:

Weldon A600-A fuel pump, Aeromotive filter, Goodridge 910 teflon hose
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15938545681_051208c4ba_c-1.jpg

Bumpstop added to front suspension, brake ducts still need to be figured out
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15914706366_0ee3bc1cea_c-1.jpg

Power steering hoses made
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15754757397_876566c30f_c-1.jpg

Remote starter solenoid only activates starter cable when cranking, 3-pack of MEGA/AMG fuses from battery to alternator charging cable, main harness power, and starter solenoid
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15754757077_c6cd69cdcb_c-1.jpg

Battery cutoff switch. Solid state and can use any switch to trigger (currently bypassed, but will include a switch at rear of vehicle for safety workers as well as one in the cabin for emergency shutdown). It shuts down the main feed from the battery to the wiring harness. The alternator is fed back to the battery and does not get cut, allowing the alternator to safely spin down into the battery, but not keep the engine running since the battery to main harness is cut.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15938545621_618035defa_c-1.jpg

Sears Platinum AGM battery in dropdown battery tray (shown at lowest position). I believe these are rebranded Odysseys. Hitch may come in handy at some point. It will exit the roll pan behind the license plate and also protects the battery.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15939849372_7378621b85_c-1.jpg

Stainless fuel lines, starter cable and Aeromotive filter running up the passenger frame rail. I will need to move these lines inside the frame rail, at least in the tire area for safety reasons in case of a blowout or a side impact.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15753223780_9c3c181882_c-1.jpg

Summit fuse panel mounted in driver footwell
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15753225170_c75c77a693_c-1.jpg

Aluminum dash panel, VDO gauges, tilt column
NRG short hub adapter (GM spline to momo bolt pattern)
Works Bell GTC quick release tilt (for easier entry/exit)
Momo Mod 78 350mm leather steering wheel
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15753075988_8f943a3a87_c-1.jpg

Driveshaft Shop carbon fiber driveshaft (front CV joint not shown, rear is 1350 companion flange)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/14870792961_e79f001ea1_c-1.jpg

Classic Auto Air Street Rod Cooler
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/14893708323_be3253b034_c-1.jpg

We put the bed on
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15940506865_41bb4b0788_c-1.jpg

Will be frenching this into the side of the bed
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Arctic_Ragtop]

Awesome project. Alot of work has been put into this truck, looks great!

[jerome]

Gas filler frenched in:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15903359530_187db00088_c-1.jpg


Inside of the bed showing how much had to be cut. Will get some sort of cover:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/16090673635_965f0c9730_c-1.jpg

[silvermonte]

For the cutoff switch and all the other stuff for the battery, was that a kit or something you put together?

[langleylad]

Who manufactured your gas cap / filler neck ? . I've got an 88 S10 with the whole Ridetech setup , warmed over 4.3 and is a blast to drive ( a big go-kart ). This thing should be a hand full .

[jerome]

For the cutoff switch and all the other stuff for the battery, was that a kit or something you put together?

It wasn't a kit, but all the parts are available through Waytek Wire and Quickcar. I can help with part numbers and how to connect it all if you're looking to put toget


Who manufactured your gas cap / filler neck ? . I've got an 88 S10 with the whole Ridetech setup , warmed over 4.3 and is a blast to drive ( a big go-kart ). This thing should be a hand full .

Sounds like a cool project, you should put up some pictures on your build thread! It's made by Newton in the UK, but it's available through Fuel Safe. You have to special order the "lead free flap" version that necks down for the gas pump fillers, but they can get it within a couple of weeks. Here is the product page (http://www.fuelsafe.com/store/fuel-delivery/fill-accessories/fill-plates-caps/newton-fill-caps/afc200b-l-888.html).

Got word from Randy that he was able to drive it up and down the street today!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/15975319007_a13dc27063_c-1.jpg

[langleylad]

107030

Sounds like a cool project, you should put up some pictures on your build thread! ..................... Here it is

[silvermonte]

It wasn't a kit, but all the parts are available through Waytek Wire and Quickcar. I can help with part numbers and how to connect it all if you're looking to put toget


I would like to know the cut off switches that you used and how they are wired. I didnt realize you could wire them in a series like that and have both of them work. I always thought you could only have one and either place it outside of the vehicle or inside.

[jerome]

I would like to know the cut off switches that you used and how they are wired. I didnt realize you could wire them in a series like that and have both of them work. I always thought you could only have one and either place it outside of the vehicle or inside.

This (http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44403/SOLID-STATE-200-AMP-DC-SWITCH/) is the switch I used. It's basically a solid state relay that turns on when it sees greater than +8V and turns off when it sees less than +4V. You can run a wire directly from the +12V battery through any number of switches in series into the control input and the relay will only activate when all the switches are closed.

I'm not sure if it would be NHRA legal or legal with any other racing sanctioning bodies.

[syborg tt]

So when does the tear down and paint stage begin ?

[jerome]

So when does the tear down and paint stage begin ?

I hoping to get some testing done on track in the next couple of weeks to make sure there is no more cutting/welding before paint. What's left on the list is:

Shave old gas door
Cover in the bed for the gas filler
Weld bulkhead tabs to move fuel lines away from tire area
A/C builkheads in firewall

----------------------
Additionally, I have been thinking about the ultimate wheel and tire package that I want to run.

The original thinking on the stock C5 wheels and tires was that the C5 is about 3,200lbs, which I think the S10 will probably come close to. Given that this was good enough for the Corvette, it would be good enough for the S10. Additionally, the Ford Explorer 8.8 rearend was the perfect width to use C5 rear wheels without spacers, frame modifications, or rearend narrowing. At the time, my budget was far smaller, and repro C5 wheels were dirt cheap. I now can afford better tires and lighter wheels, but still want to be somewhat conscious of not going with $350 tires just to have the widest tires out there without warranting needing all that grip.

After reading Terry's (Vorshlag) numerous posts (http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1056551&postcount=1124) on BFG Rivals and wider tires being better and hearing from Randy that he had no problem breaking the rear tires loose with light throttle, I started rethinking the wheel and tire choice.

I can think of several ways to get more traction, with each successive option getting pricier and more ridiculous looking:

1. I think alot of Randy's comment on not enough rear traction might be taken care of with newer rubber. The tires on there are cheap Sumitomos that are probably hard from sitting for the last 8 years. I could go with BFG Rivals on the wheels I have now: 17x8.5 front and 18x9.5 rear. BFG makes the Rivals in 245/40ZR17 and 275/35ZR18.

2. The next step up would likely require a slight flare to cover the wheels. These would be OEM C5ZO6 wheels in 17x9.5 front and 18x10.5 rear, or a square setup with 18x10.5 all around and 315/30ZR18 BFG Rivals. I think I have a source for the OEM 18x10.5 rears new for $1,200/set:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/1075712_600-1.jpg

I could source OEM flares like this:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/7701288894_f5c94f10c2_b-1.jpg

3. Finally, I could go to 18x12 rears and however wide I can go in the front with a "budget" wheel like the Forgestar F14 for about $1,200/set. This would let me run 335/30ZR18 BFG Rivals in the rear (and possibly all the way around)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I would probably have to step up to offroad flares from Warn (if I can find them in stock) like this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/scan0002-1.jpg


Now for the tech:
1. How wide would it be prudent to go for the intended use (mixed autocross, road race, street) and weight (3,200 lbs)?

a) Is there such a thing as too wide for autocross? My reading and research suggests that wider is better, but I am not sure whether you start seeing diminishing returns.

b) Is it too wide for road racing? From my reading, it seems there would be more rolling resistance, but the wider tire would be able to take more heat and thus better.

c) Is it too wide for street use? Tramlining, steering effort, hydroplaning, etc. - does anyone have any experience with a tire this wide for cruising around town?

2. Finally, whichever route I go with, I will be using a positive offset corvette-like fitment wheel (to accomodate the wide rearend). The front currently is setup to use a conventional backspaced wheel, which is why I have a 2"+ wheel adapter to use the C5 front wheel. I am planning on going with longer control arms to push the spindle out to meet the wheel.

a) This will let me get rid of the spacer (I know it's strong, but I don't love the idea or the aesthetics of the spacer) and gain more room for brake cooling ducts. This won't be the easiest change, but I think it will be doable. The sleeves on the upper control arms can just be changed out for longer units, as can the tie rod adjuster sleeve. The lower control arms will need to be fabricated and this will be the most difficult part. Additionally, the sway bar arms may need to be re-done. I think the coilover may still work with potentially a spring swap to account for it the additional angle changing the motion ratio. Am I missing anything obvious that would make it difficult technically to do this?

b) This creates a whole host of geometry changes, and I have not measured all the pickup points and run the analysis, but I am thinking that it will not change camber curves much, since the control arm angles will all be almost the same, just less angle change per inch of travel. Are there any flaws in this thinking and reasons why longer control arms might be a bad thing? The major benefit will be in reducing the scrub radius, which if I keep the stock C5 wheels and extend the control arms will be +10mm like in a stock C5. I've gathered that low scrub is a good thing, but I have no idea what the target should be, as I've also read that having some is good for steering feel.

Any input here would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Jerome

[brawls43]

I would think you should have plenty of power to overcome the added rolling resistance of wider tire. I prefer running square setups, so I don't need to bring as many spare tires. On my Lexus SC400 race car, we make about 260hp/3000lb and run 275's all around. With higher power levels, I'd love to run 315's. I'd balance tire cost and wheel cost. Depending on your offset, check out some of the cast Enkei wheels. They're super light, yet durable. I think my 17x9.5 RPF1's are 16.25lb. Ditching unsprung mass is good, especially as you add heavier (ie wider) tires. I wouldn't be scared to jump to 315 or 335 if the budget can handle it.

[silvermonte]

Im sure you have seen from some of my post Jerome, but a 275 will fit up front with a very slight rub on the frame, I did it with a 2" drop spindle and 17s. I havnt put on my AFX spindles yet and seen how much better the fitment is.

[FirstGenZq8]

I would probably have to step up to offroad flares from Warn (if I can find them in stock) like this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/scan0002-1.jpg

hey jerome, back in august of 2012 i emailed with russell smith at warn customer service ([email protected], 800-543-9276) and asked if they had any installed pics of their 26558 & 26736 flares for '82-93 S-10 pickups and got this response:

No pics at this time. Generally you will get about 2.5” of coverage. I attached the install instructions so you can see what modifications are needed.

i PM'ed you my email address so if you'd like the install instructions, just reply with your email address.

all that said i've always wanted a meatier set of flares, but i just haven't bit the bullet. bushwacker discontinued all but their cutout flares for the first gen trucks, so they're a no-go. the only pics i've found on the net of warn's 26558 & 26736 flares are of that red lifted first gen that you posted. the thing that i'm unsure of is in that pic, the part of the flare nearest the door at the bottom, i can't tell if that is some sort of mud-catcher or if it's an optical illusion. any ideas?

[newmexicosaint]

Man this is one cool truck. keep up the good work man and hats off for your persistence!! KILLER pickup!!

[HectorM52]

Updates?

[syborg tt]

Personally I would look at the 1le Camaro and you will see that it has a square set up. However the rear rim is wider which give the rear tire a slightly wider profile and a shorter sidewall.

From talking with the a couple guys about setting up cars for Track use significantly wider in the rear is not optimum. However on a short course like autocross where you need traction is he helpful.

Just remember the wider the front tire the more it is going to follow the depressions in the road when your driving it on the street.

[jerome]

I was able to drive the truck at Pacific Raceways back in January! Here is a video of the startup and pulling out of the lot:

https://vimeo.com/120482913

Unfortunately, the on-track video isn't the best since the track is wet and there was no windshield, so the sound is just wind noise (turn it down):

https://vimeo.com/117755936

It was very easy to drive and stable at speed. Tires were old and the track was wet, so it was very easy to get oversteer with the slightest amount of throttle, but for the most part it was very predicable and controllable. The 12.7:1 steering ratio felt much faster than anything I have driven, but it actually felt very natural. Brakes and clutch master cylinders weren't really optimized so brakes didn't feel very powerful and the clutch pedal sat really high, but those are all issues that can be fixed. Overall, I was really happy with how it drove.

Regarding wheel and tire choice, I bought 4 TSW Nurburgring wheels in 18x10.5" +65 offset and 4 Hankook Ventus R-S3 tires in 285/35ZR18. The rears bolt up just fine, protruding from the bedside about 1" (the old 9.5" wheels were flush). The fronts will be setup with the same 1" poking out from the fender with a small amount of negative camber. I'll get rid of the spacer I was using to run the C5 wheels and move the spindle out to meet the wheels. This will get me to a scrub radius of 21mm, which is more than the stock C5 scrub radius of 10mm, but still a very modest amount. I should only lose a slight bit of turning radius.

The inspiration for the color I think I will go with (Porsche Aquamarine) is this 356:https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/02/3170871334_99a7f30cb9-1.jpg

Here's a thread (http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/1990-mazda-miata-custom-commuter-with-a-vintage-fl/52650/page1/)with a miata painted that color with modern paint. It looks great with red accents, so I'm thinking about how I can incorporate some red. Maybe something like this:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/02/dsc_0078jpgw774h514-1.jpg

Firstgenzq8, I hope you don't mind me stealing one of your pics to show a photoshop of the new wheels, since your paint color is so similar to the one I am looking for:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/02/16447624138_e685aa586a_c-1.jpg

Additionally, I was able to get a set of the Warn fender flares off of Craigslist, so I will be seeing how well they fit and deciding between those and the stock black flares like on the picture above. I may just keep the stock flares to keep it relatively modest looking for the street and if I ever get into more competitive autocross, I could run the wider flares with 18x12 tires and 335 Rivals.

[syborg tt]

Looks great and sounds just as good.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Awesome truck! Some inspiration in there for sure.

[andrewb70]

I like the blue with the red accents. Maybe do a Grand Sport stripe on the fender in red? On the shade of blue that is on the Porsche an orange stripe would look really good too. Think GT40 in Gulf livery.

Andrew

[Carl @ Chassisworks]

Sounds great. Get a windshield in that beast, lol!

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Sick little track truck! Going to hang some serious aero and go after some TA events?

[FirstGenZq8]

Firstgenzq8, I hope you don't mind me stealing one of your pics to show a photoshop of the new wheels, since your paint color is so similar to the one I am looking for:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/02/16447624138_e685aa586a_c-1.jpg

that looks cool! those'll look great!


Additionally, I was able to get a set of the Warn fender flares off of Craigslist, so I will be seeing how well they fit and deciding between those and the stock black flares like on the picture above. I may just keep the stock flares to keep it relatively modest looking for the street and if I ever get into more competitive autocross, I could run the wider flares with 18x12 tires and 335 Rivals.

please take pics of those as soon as you get them. and if you happen to find any other warn flares, you know who to contact ;).

i want to know the answer to my above question:
the thing that i'm unsure of is in that pic, the part of the flare nearest the door at the bottom, i can't tell if that is some sort of mud-catcher or if it's an optical illusion.

[jerome]

Not a whole lot to update, but the truck just went to the body/paint guy today. He will disassemble and send to be plastic media blasted. The target completion date is 2 months from when he receives the body back from media blasting. He will mock the cab and fenders back up on the truck to make sure gaps are right and do some blocking and filling where needed. It will then get disassembled and the rolling chassis will go back to Randy.

Randy will then modify the front suspension to use longer control arms and remove the front wheel spacer when mounting the new wheels. Once that's done, the whole chassis will get fully disassembled for powdercoating. Hopefully by then, the paint will be done and it will be time for final assembly.

I did get some pictures of the flares mocked up. Keep in mind the wheels will be at least 1" further outboard than the wheels currently on the truck:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/04/16883118988_fb04eea4a5_o-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/04/16448459664_8c4b1137a2_o-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/04/16450752573_cfaa7afd70_o-1.jpg

What do you guys think? Should I use these more aggressive ones or the stock S10 flares in the blue truck pictured above? Should they be painted to match body color?

[FirstGenZq8]

i hate them. when you decide against them, i'll take them off of your hands. :)

[syborg tt]

So are you planning on going wider tires and if your not why not find a set of black OEM one's that give you an additional inch of coverage ??



Not a whole lot to update, but the truck just went to the body/paint guy today. He will disassemble and send to be plastic media blasted. The target completion date is 2 months from when he receives the body back from media blasting. He will mock the cab and fenders back up on the truck to make sure gaps are right and do some blocking and filling where needed. It will then get disassembled and the rolling chassis will go back to Randy.

Randy will then modify the front suspension to use longer control arms and remove the front wheel spacer when mounting the new wheels. Once that's done, the whole chassis will get fully disassembled for powdercoating. Hopefully by then, the paint will be done and it will be time for final assembly.

I did get some pictures of the flares mocked up. Keep in mind the wheels will be at least 1" further outboard than the wheels currently on the truck:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/04/16883118988_fb04eea4a5_o-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/04/16448459664_8c4b1137a2_o-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/04/16450752573_cfaa7afd70_o-1.jpg

What do you guys think? Should I use these more aggressive ones or the stock S10 flares in the blue truck pictured above? Should they be painted to match body color?

[jerome]

So are you planning on going wider tires and if your not why not find a set of black OEM one's that give you an additional inch of coverage ??


I'll likely stay with the 10.5" TSW Nurburgring wheels for now. I agree that they should fit under the OEM flares, and I've got a set of those now. I'll keep the big offroad flares in case I want to have a set of 335 width autocross tires on 12" wheels.

I know I haven't been posting any updates, but the project is still going strong. It is at a paint shop now, the body was media blasted and has been mocked back up on the chassis, all of the body work is done, it is poly primed and getting blocked right now. The chassis is getting torn down for powdercoating and the hope is that we can get onto final assembly sometime in the next month. More pictures once there's something to see!

[syborg tt]

hey I like in progress pics - post them up brother

[jester8798]

Where did you get those flares?!

[jerome]

Where did you get those flares?!

I got extremely lucky and found them on Craigslist when looking for normal OEM flares actually. Wish I could help you, but there's no good source for them unfortunately.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

What is the outside diameter of your tires? I like those rims.

[jerome]

What is the outside diameter of your tires? I like those rims.

The wheels are replicas of the C5 Corvette (non-Z06) 2000 - 2004 wheels. They are black powdercoated with a machined face. Unfortunately, I have not seen them for sale anymore through any of the replica vendors. However, if you like them, I would recommend you find a used set of OEM wheels (try corvetteforum). They would be made by either Alcoa or Speedline. I think they would be lighter and I would trust them more.

The wheels and tires are stock sizes:
Front: 17x8.5, +58mm offset; 245/45/17 (25.7" diameter)
Rear: 18x9.5, +65mm offset; 275/40/18 (26.6" diameter)

[jerome]

The truck is still at the body shop, but we are making progress. SPI epoxy primer, bodywork, high build primer and blocking. Currently needs another blocking session and it will be ready for basecoat and clearcoat. I'm going with Porsche slate gray (Schiefergrau), paint code 6601, color code 615. Here's a picture of it on a 911:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/12/mcqueen_930turbo-1.jpg

Also at the body shop, the S10 is getting some limited aero: splitter, air dam, hood vent and spoiler. Splitter and air dam aren't done yet, but here's the hood vent (Mustang GT500) and clear lexan spoiler.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/12/23437949154_c2d662cb5a_c-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/12/23973026301_b8da8888f2_c-1.jpg

Once paint is done (targeting February), the chassis will go out to the powdercoater and everything will go back to the chassis fabricator for final assembly and interior. Hoping to have a finished car this summer.

[BigHoss]

Just read the thread from the beginning, Very awesome build!

[andrewb70]

I dig the color choice.

Andrew

[camarozz383]

I got to get in on this little beauty, awesome work!!
The truck is still at the body shop, but we are making progress. SPI epoxy primer, bodywork, high build primer and blocking. Currently needs another blocking session and it will be ready for basecoat and clearcoat. I'm going with Porsche slate gray (Schiefergrau), paint code 6601, color code 615. Here's a picture of it on a 911:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/12/mcqueen_930turbo-1.jpg

Also at the body shop, the S10 is getting some limited aero: splitter, air dam, hood vent and spoiler. Splitter and air dam aren't done yet, but here's the hood vent (Mustang GT500) and clear lexan spoiler.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/12/23437949154_c2d662cb5a_c-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/12/23973026301_b8da8888f2_c-1.jpg

Once paint is done (targeting February), the chassis will go out to the powdercoater and everything will go back to the chassis fabricator for final assembly and interior. Hoping to have a finished car this summer.

[syborg tt]

Any Updates on the Paint ???

[monkey-leader]

You can get interesting styes of flares off of ebay, JDM and some kinds of LM car type stuff. A bit late, but it might be worth a look...

[jerome]

Getting closer on paint, has been pretty frustrating how slow the process is, but there's light at the end of the tunnel. Once paint is done, it will be re-assembly and interior. I'm eliminating the front wheel spacers and having longer lower control arms built. The upper control arms will need to be lengthened as well, but since they're the threaded SPC arms, I think I can just go with longer sleeves. Technology has come quite a ways since the engine was built, I'm also considering changing to Fitech or Holley sniper EFI, but may just run carb for a while. More focused on getting the project done than optimizing for now. Here's the latest pictures of paint - almost ready for basecoat:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/32377937523_c049cf774d_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/32377937453_2afa67394f_b-1.jpg

[brawls43]

Looking good! I'm with you on the FI Tech or Holley Sniper EFI. My truck isn't running yet either, but I keep thinking about doing it while everything is apart. Easier to get tanks modifications made, etc. Might just make the modifications but not add the EFI yet. So its an easier upgrade later.

[aqahraman]

Getting closer on paint, has been pretty frustrating how slow the process is, but there's light at the end of the tunnel. Once paint is done, it will be re-assembly and interior. I'm eliminating the front wheel spacers and having longer lower control arms built. The upper control arms will need to be lengthened as well, but since they're the threaded SPC arms, I think I can just go with longer sleeves. Technology has come quite a ways since the engine was built, I'm also considering changing to Fitech or Holley sniper EFI, but may just run carb for a while. More focused on getting the project done than optimizing for now. Here's the latest pictures of paint - almost ready for basecoat:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/32377937523_c049cf774d_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/32377937453_2afa67394f_b-1.jpg

hi jerome,

thanks for your help and advices, bro any updated pic of your project will be great and need to see how the beast looks after paint.

regards

amq

[JeffRochon]

Any New Updates?

Getting closer on paint, has been pretty frustrating how slow the process is, but there's light at the end of the tunnel. Once paint is done, it will be re-assembly and interior. I'm eliminating the front wheel spacers and having longer lower control arms built. The upper control arms will need to be lengthened as well, but since they're the threaded SPC arms, I think I can just go with longer sleeves. Technology has come quite a ways since the engine was built, I'm also considering changing to Fitech or Holley sniper EFI, but may just run carb for a while. More focused on getting the project done than optimizing for now. Here's the latest pictures of paint - almost ready for basecoat:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/32377937523_c049cf774d_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/32377937453_2afa67394f_b-1.jpg

[Motown 454]

The cab looks good.

[jerome]

Project stalled while waiting for paint. The painter fell into some bad health from not wearing eye protection and having VOCs go through his eyes. Among other issues with him, progress was extremely slow (and still is). The good news is that he did manage to get the cab, doors, and fenders painted right at the end of December.

The Porsche Slate Grey paint code did not spray out quite right (I didn't get the details) but they found a very similar paint code that looked good, albeit from more mundane origins - Mitsubishi Dark Greenish Gray - which as far as I can tell from Google is for a 2008-2009 Mitsubishi Outlander.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/38575697445_61920bce09_b-1.jpg


It has suprisingly few ingredients - a simple mix:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/39454751621_3b988edaf4_b-1.jpg

After media blasting, there is DP90 epoxy paint (not sure how many coats), high build primer, glaze in spots, then urethane primer. On top of that is 3 coats of base and 4 coats of clear. There were a couple of runs and a little bit of orange peel, but it should all come out with wet sanding and buffing and be smooth as glass.

The color is amazing in person - almost black in shadow and sort of a military drab green / gray in the light. Unfortunately, that doesn't quite come through in pictures, but here they are:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/39581559951_da68725d05_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/39454750571_afa3dd87ac_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/39454752241_9875ae941a_b-1.jpg


Next step is to get the chassis powdercoated and start re-assembly. We need to cut a few holes out of the chassis boxing that was done in order to get a sandblasting nozzle inside to get the rust out and spray powder in. I'm hopeful to have it all back together for the summer driving season, but realistically based on past progress looking at a longer timeline.

[syborg tt]

I am very familiar with that color and love it.

The owner from Evoporust was considering dipping chassis and body's which could be an option for your frame. The other option would be do have it dipped and e-coated and then head over to powder.

ps The painted panels look awesome !!!





Project stalled while waiting for paint. The painter fell into some bad health from not wearing eye protection and having VOCs go through his eyes. Among other issues with him, progress was extremely slow (and still is). The good news is that he did manage to get the cab, doors, and fenders painted right at the end of December.

The Porsche Slate Grey paint code did not spray out quite right (I didn't get the details) but they found a very similar paint code that looked good, albeit from more mundane origins - Mitsubishi Dark Greenish Gray - which as far as I can tell from Google is for a 2008-2009 Mitsubishi Outlander.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/38575697445_61920bce09_b-1.jpg


It has suprisingly few ingredients - a simple mix:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/39454751621_3b988edaf4_b-1.jpg

After media blasting, there is DP90 epoxy paint (not sure how many coats), high build primer, glaze in spots, then urethane primer. On top of that is 3 coats of base and 4 coats of clear. There were a couple of runs and a little bit of orange peel, but it should all come out with wet sanding and buffing and be smooth as glass.

The color is amazing in person - almost black in shadow and sort of a military drab green / gray in the light. Unfortunately, that doesn't quite come through in pictures, but here they are:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/39581559951_da68725d05_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/39454750571_afa3dd87ac_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/01/39454752241_9875ae941a_b-1.jpg


Next step is to get the chassis powdercoated and start re-assembly. We need to cut a few holes out of the chassis boxing that was done in order to get a sandblasting nozzle inside to get the rust out and spray powder in. I'm hopeful to have it all back together for the summer driving season, but realistically based on past progress looking at a longer timeline.

[Motown 454]

The paint looks great, it must feel good to have that done.

[norway_dartsport]

im doing a corner eating s10 mysef :) yours looks badass :D

[jerome]

Bed and tailgate were finally painted.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/02/40385888041_74d687a1f9_b-1.jpg

The tailgate was bowed almost 1" in the middle and it was hitting one bedside 1/4" before the other, but they were able to bend it back into shape with a porta power.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/02/40385888281_d9e6d69bd1_b-1.jpg

The hood is the only thing left that needs to be painted. The hood inner structure was cut out to accommodate the air filter and a big hole was cut out to install a vent to extract heat and air on the backside of the radiator. It will need additional bracing before final paint, and we can only figure out the bracing once the hood is mounted on the fenders.

The inside of the cab and the roll bar were painted satin black

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/02/39674947104_338800fef8_b-1.jpg

The chassis is now back from powdercoating.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/02/26514742018_17fdd40319_b-1.jpg

Looking forward to hopefully being able to accelerate re-assembly. The remaining major fabrication work is to make longer lower and upper control arms to push the spindle out further and eliminate the wheel spacer.

I am also considering swapping the carb out for a fuel injection throttle body for reliability. The fuel system can already handle EFI, I would just need a system like the Holley Sniper (https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-511) or FITech EFI 4 (http://fitechefi.com/products/30002/). I haven't done a ton of reading yet but it seems like the MSD billet HEI distributor I have might be able to be used if I want it to control timing as well.

I'm interested in other advantages of EFI that the simpler $1,000 systems like this wouldn't be able to get me though. Things like traction control (C5 front wheel hubs and Ford 8.8 rearend have ABS sensors already), rev limiters (launch, burnout, redline, no-lift shifting), flex fuel sensor, PWM fuel pump and cooling fan control, datalogging, digital dash, etc. But then to get those features, which I may or may not ever actually wire into the ECU, I would need a Holley Terminator throttle body (https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_efi/terminator_service_parts/parts/534-217) at $950, a Megasquirt 3 Pro (https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ms3pro-ultimate-standalone-engine-management-system/) at $1,500 and a whole lot more time and labor to install the ECU. At those sorts of numbers, I start thinking about whether it's all a waste if I end up with an LS swap anyways at some point.

I didn't consider port fuel injection mostly because that would involve changing the intake and I'm not ready at this point to ditch the cowl induction and air filter box I've already got:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/02/14549975783_8c12483c87_b-1.jpg

Would be great to hear opinions on carb v. $1,000 throttle body fuel injection v. full standalone ECU and throttle body. I think the most valuable feature would probably be traction control given how light the rearend will be.

Jerome

[Chewy72ss]

Subscribed. Truck looks insane. Love the lengths you've gone to with the build. Keep it up, and keep us updated!

[s10mike]

im in the middle of adding a/c to my s10 i see that you relocated your a/c condenser to the front of the core how did you get the hood hatch to bolt up?? did you cut it? have any pics of it?