Anvil 2nd gen Camaro hood

[hotwheels]

OK, I need everyone's help here with some decisions. We're sorting out a repop hood to fit and wondering if we should; A) just make a stock hood in carbon fiber (with a little tweaking to the grill so it is cut out with 2 vent holes backed up with the same aluminum hexagonal grill as our frist gen cowl panels) or B) add the L-88 style scoop with tweaks to it to conform to the lines of the hood better (like flare it out from a top view to match the angle of the lines on the hood) or C) make the stock style with provisions to accept the L-88 or other style scoops like the air extractor pictured as separate bolt on pieces? I guess the real question is, does anybody want a stock style cf hood with no whistles and bells?

Best, MaTT

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/11/secondgenhood002-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/11/secondgenhood001-1.jpg
[/IMG]

[class67]

Anything but the L-88! (IMHO) just not a fan of the L-88.

[dipren443]

Anything but the L-88! (IMHO) just not a fan of the L-88.

Stock flat hood in 100% carbon. I will definitely be purchasing one in the future if you do. I have some other carbon desires too for my 2nd gen. What other parts are you planning to make for the 2nd gens??

[hotwheels]

We were planning on modifying the L-88 so that it didn't look so bulky by lowering it and splaying it out to match the converging lines of the hood. I actually think it looks better on a second gen hood than the first gen. I don't like the cowl induction look on the second gen because it is too boxy fighting the smooth curves of the body. I also like the simplicity of the stock hood, but seems like it lacks some muscle.

MaTT
ANVil

[dipren443]

I can honestly say I would have ZERO interest in an L-88 style hood. I also agree that the cowl induction just doesn't look right on a 2nd Gen. Do you have any other ideas?? I think it could use something else, but I don't think L-88 is the answer.

[hotwheels]

We are making the deck lid, rear filler panel, rear spoiler and front nose piece in carbon fiber. I plan on making the nose piece a one piece deal that has the RS look, but can use the standard grill. I may, however, make it in 2 pieces, so that people can choose either the RS lower valance or standard in case they want to use the lower turn signal openings as brake cooling ducts or have turn signals in them and put driving lights in the RS turn signal locations.
We are also planning on some interior parts like the A pillar moldings and interior windshield header molding as well as the upper door panel moldings. We are also working on a customizable center console.
Would love to hear feedback on any of these parts or other requests.

Thanks, MaTT
ANVil

[hotwheels]

It may be hard to see, but the one picture shows a foam model of a reverse scoop (air extractor) that I shaped in about a 1/2 hour. I layed it on the second gen hood to see what it would look like and we are redesigning it in Solidworks as a computer model to align it better with the lines of the hood. There would be a hole cut in either side of the hood to accomodate it. I will try to post pics tomorrow when I'm back in the office. I think it would look good if it were a little larger and had the right angles. There would be, of course a left and right. The one thing they don't do, that a lot of people ask for, is allow for more hood clearance.


-MaTT
ANVil

[dipren443]

We are making the deck lid, rear filler panel, rear spoiler and front nose piece in carbon fiber. I plan on making the nose piece a one piece deal that has the RS look, but can use the standard grill. I may, however, make it in 2 pieces, so that people can choose either the RS lower valance or standard in case they want to use the lower turn signal openings as brake cooling ducts or have turn signals in them and put driving lights in the RS turn signal locations.
We are also planning on some interior parts like the A pillar moldings and interior windshield header molding as well as the upper door panel moldings. We are also working on a customizable center console.
Would love to hear feedback on any of these parts or other requests.

Thanks, MaTT
ANVil

I would be interested in the following:

Front Upper valence
Hood
Rear filler panel
decklid
center section of larger three piece spoiler

The interior pieces don't interest me initially. I would have to see what you came up with before I provided any feedback.

Thanks,
Nick

[dipren443]

It may be hard to see, but the one picture shows a foam model of a reverse scoop (air extractor) that I shaped in about a 1/2 hour. I layed it on the second gen hood to see what it would look like and we are redesigning it in Solidworks as a computer model to align it better with the lines of the hood. There would be a hole cut in either side of the hood to accomodate it. I will try to post pics tomorrow when I'm back in the office. I think it would look good if it were a little larger and had the right angles. There would be, of course a left and right. The one thing they don't do, that a lot of people ask for, is allow for more hood clearance.


-MaTT
ANVil

I agree with you in regards to the hood clearance, but I just haven't seen a design that is befitting to the 2nd Gen.

[SHANE 73Z]

I have been trying to figure out a hood for the second gens that would actually look good with the rest of the lines.

I have had a vision of a stock second gen hood that is modified at the stock body lines. I would love to see the center profile of the hood raised about 2 1/2", yet following the first body lines out from the center. Then in the "dips" between the grille & headlights, I would love to see rectangular rear ward facing extractor and the dip going lower to frame it.

I may see if I can crudely photochop the basic idea.

I am in for the whole list of exterior stuff so far...........what are the chances for fenders..............lol:hammer:

[zbugger]

Personally, I like the look of the late second gen hoods with the scoop in the front, such as 78-79 models, or like I have on my car, the 80-81 style cold air induction hood. But that's just me, personally.

[hotwheels]

We should have our gallery page up soon on our web site (www.anvilauto.com (http://www.anvilauto.com)). In it, we have sketches of some concepts for different styling for 1st and 2nd gen Camaros as well as Mustangs. I'll make a post when it's up, in case anyone wants to give their comments.

MaTT
ANVil

[SHANE 73Z]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7087693)

If you can see the lines, I envision the rear profile of the hood as the red line on the windshield. the white lines show the raised center section and the green shows where the top of the rear facing vents would be flush with the current surface and the valley rolls down in further to the bottom of the opening.


Shane

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

just stock, and a 3 inch cowl.. that is all.

[MrQuick]

Hi Matt,
Im with the rest on the L-88 too but maybe a modernized version and make it functional for heat extraction like a race C6 hood. Or maybe similar to this...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The smaller scoops might scream firebird.

[SHANE 73Z]

Just another idea,

A notorious thing on second gens is the poor relationship of the core support to the hood edge. If one is so inclined to run hood pins, it makes the placement tough.

It would be cool to see a hood, with combined fender braces & hood pin/or flush mount latch arrangement.

[PARKERRS]

I'm with the rest on the L-88, don't do it. Like Allen said the 80-81 air induction hood fit the lines of these cars best, if it were molded in that might look nice, or raise the hieght of the center section for something similar to MRQUICK's photo. I've got a 73 and I'm working on a 72 and like you stated the goodmark cowl hood doesn't appeal to me, but I think it is because the angles they used are wrong. The scoop tapers from front to back without following the lines of the fender. If it made its rise all at once in the front similar to the first gen. then continued parrallel to the hood lines it would look 10 times more presentable on the car in my opinion YMMV.

Tommy

[Happyfunballs]

How would a stinger scoop look? I don't think I've seen one on a second gen....although, there might be a reason for that.

[West Texas Z]

I'd like an OEM CF one but with my intake manifold, it wouldnt fit.

[protour73]

No L-88....IMHO, there is not a widespread appeal for that hood.

Stock style.........or at least a 1-2" cowl induction

.
.
.
.
.
.
.put me in line, for a front non-RS spoiler.....I'll donate one, for a mold!!

[syborg tt]

Well, Matt I no longer like you. I haven't even started building my camaro project and the budget is blown.

Interior parts are a a go for me espcially a nice consule.

I agree with Shane 73Z that is how the hood should be built. I have a rendering from Bob Thrash for my truck and that is exacltly how he sketched the hood. We both agreed if done correctly it would look cool.

If not I would be in for a stock hood - no interest in the L88 version.

[hotwheels]

We've been working on some sketches which I will post tomorrow.
Thanks for everyone's feedback so far.
The big question still remains; how much of a demand is there for more hood clearance? Is it a big deal?

MaTT
ANVil

[MrQuick]

We've been working on some sketches which I will post tomorrow.
Thanks for everyone's feedback so far.
The big question still remains; how much of a demand is there for more hood clearance? Is it a big deal?

MaTT
ANVil

Can't wait to see what you come up with.

Im pretty sure hood clearance would a plus for all the big block guys out there. I think bulging it up over a stock height would be a better look and fit the body lines.

[MrQuick]

I'm with the rest on the L-88, don't do it. Like Allen said the 80-81 air induction hood fit the lines of these cars best, if it were molded in that might look nice, or raise the hieght of the center section for something similar to MRQUICK's photo. I've got a 73 and I'm working on a 72 and like you stated the goodmark cowl hood doesn't appeal to me, but I think it is because the angles they used are wrong. The scoop tapers from front to back without following the lines of the fender. If it made its rise all at once in the front similar to the first gen. then continued parrallel to the hood lines it would look 10 times more presentable on the car in my opinion YMMV.

Tommy You know what also really sucks about the cowl hoods available now is that dumb lip up right at the rear edge of the scoop. doesn't look right.

[SHANE 73Z]

I would say that there is definately a market for a hood with more clearance. Even with a small block, the most common dual plane intakes put you into clearance issues. I think something in the 2 1/2" range would be attractive.

I cant even imagine trying to get a single plane sbc or a bbc under a stock hood.

Shane

[Roger M]

i posted on Lateral-G already on this, but i'll post here as well. the 78-79 z/28 teardrop scoop looks good if molded in properly. Personally, i would do that, or leave the hood flat.

[hotwheels]

Here are the sketches. Let me know what you guys think.

-
Matt
ANVil

[PSV]

I think #6 looks great. It blends the look of the stinger hood and 4th gen ss hood.

[dipren443]

First Choice - #7
Second Choice - #2 (If only for the added clearance)
Third Choice - #1

Not a chance on the other six for me :santa3:

Number 7 all the way. If you build it, they will come :yum:

[70GTZ28]

Man, you are making this toooooo hard for me. I'm also thinking #7 first and I also like #3 and #4. Then I go back and look, DUDE, I like them all. Great Job!!! What I've done to my Camaro is, I've got the Cowl Hood and the Open Element Air Cleaner from the 69 era. It looks pretty stock and cool to me. I really like what you've done.

[GM_muscle]

#5 and #6

[SHANE 73Z]

I really like #7 too, thanks for the visuals, dipren443 & I were discussing it over his body bushing install.

I think it can be made super subtle, IMO it doesnt need any protrusion above the line of the hood at the extractors, just open it right from surface, almost like it was punched in (like a louver) and raise the hoodline of the center section.

Shane

[hotwheels]

Shane,

Do you mean more like #3? The air extractors are more like slots with the back openings like exit ramps. Not sure if this comes across in the sketch, but that's what we intended. The center portion of both 3 and 7 are raised about 1 1/2 - 2 inches for a little extra clearance. I suppose you might mean to hae the openings a little more louver-like so they would be narrower?

-Matt

[dipren443]

Shane,

Do you mean more like #3? The air extractors are more like slots with the back openings like exit ramps. Not sure if this comes across in the sketch, but that's what we intended. The center portion of both 3 and 7 are raised about 1 1/2 - 2 inches for a little extra clearance. I suppose you might mean to hae the openings a little more louver-like so they would be narrower?

-Matt

Shane and I are on the same page, and discussed this in depth today, so I will try and answer this.

I think what Shane was trying to say is have just one air extractor like #7, but instead of being raised at the leading edge, have it flush with the hood.

Nick

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

1

2

6

and for the aggy crowd. 7

[hotwheels]

Oh, OK, kind of like Shane's sketch over the photo several posts back. I'll try to get a sketch up on Monday with that detail.

-Matt

[hotwheels]

Looking back at Shane's sketch, I'm worried that the nice line on the valley of the hood will get interupted without a frame around the hole. The ramp out will make that line open up and get wider as it follows down the rabbit hole. The beauty of the second gen front end are those basic shapes that are pulled off the cowl area and getting more defined as they stretch forward. Going from front to back, they fade to nothing at the rear of the hood. Very clean and sinewy like skin stretched over flexed muscle pouncing forward like a cat attacking it's prey. That is why I almost hate to raise the middle portion of the hood, thus eliminating that fade to nothing detail.

-Matt

[dipren443]

Looking back at Shane's sketch, I'm worried that the nice line on the valley of the hood will get interupted without a frame around the hole. The ramp out will make that line open up and get wider as it follows down the rabbit hole. The beauty of the second gen front end are those basic shapes that are pulled off the cowl area and getting more defined as they stretch forward. Going from front to back, they fade to nothing at the rear of the hood. Very clean and sinewy like skin stretched over flexed muscle pouncing forward like a cat attacking it's prey. That is why I almost hate to raise the middle portion of the hood, thus eliminating that fade to nothing detail.

-Matt

Matt,

You are gonna get a big chuckle out of Shane and I. We were staring at my hood discussing that very feature today.

Decisions decisions. Seems like almost anything is a compromise in some way shape or form.

Nick

[NOT A TA]

Although I'm in the minority I like the idea of the L-88 and remember seeing fiberglass ones a long time ago (in the 70's)that complimented the body lines pretty well. Always wished I had one of those on my 74 instead of the pro stock style drag race one that came on it. If I end up keeping the car (have to sell some cars) I'll eventually put on some kind of L-88 hood.

[SHANE 73Z]

Matt,

Im afraid my last post is a little vague. The center section of #3 is absolutely perfect. I was not trying to say it needed to be higher than you are already showing.

As for the extractors, I will make you a sketch showing some better detail of my thinking.

Thanks again,
Shane

[GetMore]

I'd like a CF hood, possibly with some air extractors on it. I'm installing Z-28 fenders to get the air extractors, and was thinking of installing the Z-28 hood, just for the looks.
The main thing I want is for it to be functional, but since I'm going to install the fenders and the little wheel flares/spoilers/whatever they're called, I figured I might as well do the hood as well.
I'm going to run a Ram Jet manifold, so there is no way the Z-28 hood scoop can be functional.

So, from a function standpoint, I feel that #8 is the better one for me. It looks to me like it has the best path for air from the radiator and may be in a low pressure area, to help pull the air out. BTW, that's the most important part of the air extractor design, IMO. Make sure it is in an area where it gets the proper airflow over it to pull air from inside the engine compartment.

[LS1,1971]

Hi Matt,
Im with the rest on the L-88 too but maybe a modernized version and make it functional for heat extraction like a race C6 hood. Or maybe similar to this...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The smaller scoops might scream firebird.



I would like to see a modern L88 hood similar to this also.

[hotwheels]

Hey GetMore,

You are absolutely right about the placement of the air extractors on the hood. The placement is important for the best optimization. Usually, (from what I've read and by studying race cars) the vents are located at the apex of the curve of the hood which is usually near the middle of the wheel opening. From what I understand, air rushes over the car like an airplane wing and at the peak of the hood like the cord of a wing, there is a low pressure area (which provides lift on a wing). This essentially creates a vacuum virtually sucking the air right out of the hood. A secondary benefit is that it also reduces lift by filling the void with air pushing through and out of the vents! So, yes, the position of the vents on #8 is more optimal, but it's always good to look at different styling exercises to see what people react to. I'm with you, though, form should follow function as long as it's not ugly. #8 was one of our early thoughts when I did the foam mock-up. One thing I thought we could do is just make a stock hood with aluminum insert cowl vents in place of the stock bars and offer the air extractors as accessories that could be bolted on (after some cutting of the hood of course). This would not offer any additional hood clearance though. Maybe we will have to offer more than one style hood eventually.


MaTT
ANVil

[BLUE72CAMARO]

For me extra clearance is the biggest issue as there is no chance of getting a big block under a stock height hood with a decent intake on it! I really like the looks of 7 and 2

[woody80z28]

I've always wanted to see a cf hood with the 80-81 Z28 cowl scoop molded in as one piece, but an inch or so taller. Think of how nice the Z28 stripes would look with the top of the scoop bare cf instead of black like the factory.

Example:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I also think CF grilles and headlight/signal trim would be a nice touch.

[ZS10]

Sorry I don't get over here very often, dial up ya know....

I've made a couple hoods and fiberglass pices for early 2nd gens, bumpers, RS nose w/grill insert, door panel parts, and a few other bits.
This winter I want to make a few other pieces too, top of the list are inner fenders and a custom front spoiler, something like the 'F-Bomb' front spoiler, in RS. Would like to do a standard version too if I can get my hands on one to get the A buddy of mine has a freshly restored 74 Z and we've kicked around the idea of taking a mold from the bottom front header with the center spoiler. IIRC its the same peice from 74-77, not reprod yet and tough to find intact. I'm all for swapping molds, ideas, techniques, ect. My 1 peice nose went to Cali last spring and had a mold taken, then reprod in c/f. C/F is pretty tough to get up here and if its just the look you want, 'Black 'glass cloth' looks the same and is way cheaper and should be more available.

On your hood drawings, I really like the idea of raising the entire middle 1"-1.5" to clear sb set ups, #3-#7. Looks very inconspicuous and original. I could do without the apperance of the louver thingys, though the hand hold for lifting the hood is an exellent idea and practicality would make them worth having. I can't see the the actual function of them removing air for downforce or heat extraction being more than theoretic. The volume of air coming through our grills and radiators is far greater than the vents are going to have any impact on.

Real engines, :razz: of course need more clearance and most cowls ect. look painfully like added on peices. If you're going to use a big cowl, its a bit of a challange to match up the lines of the front of the hood and the front back contours to make it looks like it belongs on our hoods and not like it came from the 'Generic' shelf at Pep boys. The newer 'vette L88 version I think could be blended in to our hoods and look like it belongs. Woody's idea of making the stock cowl bigger is worth exploring too, imo.

Personally, I'm still a fan of 15" rims, flames and big L88 cowls. The next one I make will likely be a 3"+ high Stinger. Somone asked about the 'lip' on the back of cowls, its for strength. It would flap or vibrate at speed without it
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/11/cowlshot-1.jpg

Good luck making parts, and good job on reinventing our hoods, nice to see fresh ideas surfacing.
Cheers, Tom

[6'9"Witha69]

#7 or #3 without the extractors (looks too cluttered).

[hotwheels]

Here's our latest sketch (sketch #10)
w/ low profile cowl induction hood similar to the 70' Chevelle SS.

What do you guys think?

-
Matt,

ANVil

[6'9"Witha69]

Here's our latest sketch (sketch #10)
w/ low profile cowl induction hood similar to the 70' Chevelle SS.

What do you guys think?

-
Matt,

ANVilLooks good!

[SHANE 73Z]

More feedback here:

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103845

[newby]

If I had to pick from what you got, 6 and 5 are the best. those are your money makers on that rendering.

I like 8 but I wouldn't want the leading lip of the extractors to be too pronounced. make em a little longer and staggered to look like the side vents from the 78?-80 fenders. kinda do already. if you try it, definitely do one with the outside edges longer and one with the inside edges longer... both would be very distinctive.

sorry if this comes across as harsh, but the L88 never looked good on any car. period. that poor thing looks like the result of necessity with some 70s super hip polyester mixed in. in my mind, its the muscle car equivalent of the gay, too tall fins we see on all the rice running around. I would rather see a tubbed, ladder bar, blown big block alchy 70s trailer queen van with runnings boards, wall to wall shag carpet and enough unicorn metallic flake to make a bass boat jealous... then see an L88 hood. phew. enough said.

(i wish I could sketch...) if these interest you try em:

I would like to see the 'stealth' cowl hood that has a larger center raise in it along the original line (kind of like what is on the mustang cobras) Although I agree with you about the fade effect at the cowl, nothing says 'attacking cat' like a big bulge for the muscle engine under the hood.

take that same stealth hood and inset your 454 stingray inspired hood (pretend you took your #6 and laid some glass over it to make it flush with the center raise)

might be too wild but try a twin ram air snorkel ala 4th gens and the 70's TAs (i've seen some of the 4th gens with two defined humps and some with one hump) been thinking of getting the stick on ones just to see how it would look.

also try 8 but join the vents to make one large vent to make a snorkel (slightly narrower and more forward than the current placement) like the vette pictured above but deeper. that would be sweet with a forward raked radiator and some twin electrics from a ford windstar (perfect fit and cheap fyi). very modern (gt40, c5/c6 etc) While you are at it you could follow it up with a simple raise like you have in 4. that would actually make it kind of like a functional L88 hood and might be kind of cool. damn it! caught me! oh well, I I still stand behind my previous :hah: L88 bashing.:jump:

unless you have substantial rake in your stance or do a radiator snorkel, i'm not sure how much of an extractor effect you will get on 2nd gens anyway... the hood and fenders are really not all that curved (compared 70s up vetts and just about every car built after 1980). might be worth asking some of the old SCCA guys. I also agree that unless you do some radiator blocking and a huge snorkel, we are dealing with way more air then you could ever squeeze through a couple small vents.

also dont forget us 'other' second gen guys. urethane cone-ers are becoming very popular as the early ones get silly expensive. need some renderings on those cars as well.

THANKS!