Anybody have a Mopar A-body setup?

[Tomsecks]

Title pretty much sums it up. Anybody have one out there? What are you running? Looking to take my 70' Swinger up a notch. I pretty much know the offerings, mainly looking for what guys like, if anybody has one. Thanks.

[rjsjea]

under construction.....alterK, triangulated 4-link, cage, 18's/19's, bigblock (383/indy heads), still to get trans (5spd, 6spd or 4l60,4l80 or who knows). Mini-tubbed, smoothed/shaved all over.

[Tomsecks]

So can I ask what made you decide to go with the AlterK instead of "maxing out" the stock setup? I'm very familar with the AlterK, and Bill of RMS too. I'm trying to plan what I'd like to do, looking for suggestions or what other guys are doing or planning on doing.

I've got a rough idea of what I want, just not sure how I want to get there.

[rjsjea]

After pricing out "maxing stock" stuff out, vs weight savings, rackNpinion, and the room for headers/starter/oil pan etc......it was an easy choice to go w/ the alterK. Easier alignment (18's on front), and engine removal is a breeze with the alterK.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I have decided to go the "maxed out" suspension route on my 68 Charger (same style suspension afterall) - the cost was not very much involved... if you're planning on running a hot small block the suspension will be a very difficult descision. A big block I suggest the alterK due to headers and all the other stuff. With a small block I feel a stock suspension can compete with RMS - look at the green brick for inspiration.... that tells you just how well a stock style suspension can do - - - Plus it is alot easier to play with in my mind...

Removing engines is easier with the stock K member if you drop it out of the bottom of the car like I do :cheers:

[backtobasics]

I too am leaning towards maximizing stock suspension architecure.
All new Moog parts, with Enegy Suspension bushings and sway bars front and rear. Add premium shocks, and I think it will be close.

As for header clearance, I look at it this way. Mopar headers are a rite of passage. I deal with hassles on headers, in exchange for the specialty nature of a Mopar, versus some of the more common (but not less beautiful) cars out there. I can't remember the last time I saw an old school Mopar in morning traffic, but I will, as soon as mine is roadworthy.

[Tomsecks]

Thanks for the posts. Guess I'm kinda at a crossroads as what to do. I've got some .92" T-bars on my car, poly bushings, stock discs now. No sway bars, or good shocks. Car is as nice of a crusier as you could won't, but that doesn't exactually cut it in the corners. I like the RMS front and rear setup, but it's some coin to do all at once. I'd prefer to "build" towards the AlterK, but there aren't many things that are interchangable between it and stock. So guess I'm just surveying guys results and looking for some guidance.

[High Plains Mopars]

GMachineDartGT posts on here and probably has one of the most well sorted out A bodies on the planet. He is using all stock "style" components.

There a number of guys who swear by the Alterkation stuff. It is very nice, lightweight and well engineered. Drawback to their new rear system is you cannot alter roll center height. Similar to the Alterkation is some new company called Road Hogs, or Road Junkies or something like that. Looks like a copy of the Alterkation, IMO. There also is CAPs, which makes a lot of tubular items for retaining the torsion bars.

For price points, you can put together a well matched stock suspension for around $2500 by selective shopping. I'm not sure if XV has stepped in the A body market yet, but their optimized stock set up is something like $3200. For that same price, all you can get for coil over set ups is the base, entry level set up with no options.

IMO, you can get the stock set up to perform excellently in all but the most "all out, unlimited" type of competition classes. The torsion bar suspension has a great deal of adjustment built in to it and has very good geometry in stock form. The only drawbacks being caster, which can be overcome with tubular upper arms and/or offset bushings, and the general lack of wheel rate so many mopar guys choose using the Mopar Performance t-bar recommendations.

If you want/need adjustability with leaf springs, you can add pivot eye bushings and a panhard bar and have the same type of roll center adjustment that any coil over suspension has.

If you stock set up doesn't feel like it is cutting it, then look at a step up in t-bar and sway bar sizes. .92 isn't a whole lot of t-bar these days, even in the shorter A body size. Also make sure you have shocks that can step up to the wheel rates those changes will generate. I've seen good shocks make bad springs look good, but bad shocks can make the best chosen springs feel like dog squeeze.

Hotchkiss is stepping into the mopar market with some huge sway bars. 1.25-1.5 tubular front bars with 1" adjustable rear bars. Might check with them about availability as well as a $500 kit could potentially solve some cornering softness.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I have a 1 3/8" front sway bar as well as an adjustable 1" rear bar on a B-body and it felt like it was on rails - larger T-bars, poly bushings, edelbrock shocks, and dearched HD leafs

[High Plains Mopars]

No sway bars, or good shocks. ...but that doesn't exactually cut it in the corners.


Wow, I'm suprised I didn't catch this little bit earlier. Dude, get sway bars and good shocks and that will cure almost all the cornering problem.

[Tomsecks]

I'm familiar w/ Pete's car (gmachine). I'll probably review his setup and go from there. Going to have to do some research. The only thing I will add is that I won't be buying anything from XV.

So to get a couple opions, here's where I'll be starting:

70 Swinger - all steel
SB w/ TKO & 8 3/4 rear, subframe connectors installed
215/70/14 on rallyes
Front - small bolt pattern 4-piston discs, .92" t-bars, poly bushings
Rear - Calvert mono springs

I'm thinking of trying to upgrade to the Viper calipiers and a sway bar up front. Possibly better shocks all around. Then get into a 17 wheel all around.

OUt of curiousity is anybody running a Calvert racing monoleaf in the rear? Any clue as to what the spring rate is for that spring or any MP springs that are out there? I've read that often the S/S or XHD springs have too much spring rate, I currently have the Calverts on the car. Does anybody run them with Caltracs??? Not sure how that would work out, I'd guess negatively but maybe not??? Also a panhard bar would aid in running leafs, espcially monos, I'd maybe take a shot at fabbin one up.

Flame away on my thoughts.

[backtobasics]

Wow, I'm suprised I didn't catch this little bit earlier. Dude, get sway bars and good shocks and that will cure almost all the cornering problem.

I agree.
The other stuff will help...but a PREMIUM shock, and front and rear sway bars will totally change the behavior of the car.

[Tomsecks]

Whose bar & whose shocks? I like the sounds of the hollow bars that are out there.

[High Plains Mopars]

Check with Hotchkiss to see if they have A body bars yet. If not, Firm Feel is also a great source for OEM style sway bars in stock and bigger than stock sizes. Otherwise, just getting something under there is better than nothing, even if it is Sway Away or Addco.

Shocks, QA1 single adjustables are nice , but Konis are the bomb. The QA1 may be a little bit cheaper, $110 or so compared to $125. Ultimate would be Afco double adjustable or custom valved units, around $250 each.

IMO, I'd also be stepping up to a a .99 or bigger t-bar as well. While I have not personally built an A body, my recommendation for B bodies is to get .96 for small blocks and 1.0 for big blocks as a starting point for just cruising. If your seriously throwing it into corners, then 1.16 or 1.22

Mopar XHD leaf springs are around 120-130 pounds. SS springs are 140-160. Whether or not they are too much depends on what rates your running in the front.

[Tomsecks]

Are you sure on those spring rates for the Mopar springs? I got in touch with Calvert racing, surprisingly heard that my springs are probably 225 - 250 # springs. I thought they were softer then the Mopar offerings?

I'll have to look into Konis most likely. Thanks for the suggestions on bars.

[High Plains Mopars]

Pretty sure on the spring rates. If you dig through the Mopar Chassis book or the Oval Track Modification manuals, you can find the spring info.

Speaking of which, the recommended suspension set up from the Kit Car chassis days for flat to slightly banked tracks was 1.12 front t-bars, 1" front sway bar, 120# rear springs. This was using B/E body t-bars, so an A body could step down a bit on the t-bar rate and still have a nice balance.

Spring rate can be determined by many factors such as width, thickness, length, material, method of forming, etc. Just because you have a mono-leaf doesn't automatically make it softer. Aren't Calverts a split mono as well? That will add to the rate compared to a single length mono as well. At 250#, you going to have a very loose rear in the corners unless you significantly step up the front t and s bar rates.

[dusterbd13]

as a mopar guy, and a-body owner, i can appreciate your dilemma.
my duster is currently equipped with 1 1/8 front ADDCO bar, 3/4 rear, KYB gas adjust shocks, boxed lower control arms with rubber bushings (they increase wheel rate a tad and help with the wandering problem associated with poly lowers), Energy suspension bushings throughout, .92 t-bars front, 340 springs rear. Big bolt conversion in an 8 3/4, 11X3 drums rear, 73 up spindles and steering linkage front, 11 3/4 front discs. subframes tied, power steering from a diplomat, glass hood, small block.

nopw that that is out of the way, i can tell you my impression. when i had a very similar setup (parts store shocks, poly lower bushings, different brakes, no boxing or reinforcing, all steel) and a good alignment, the car actually handled quite resptably. actually handled good for what it was. not a vette stomper, but really quite good.
now that its back together, it doesnt handle as good. partially due to a really crappy alignment, and i think the shocks are a bit wrong for the combo. on paper the combo should actually out handle the old one hands down, so i think its down to tuning. i also think the car rides great, but is a bit undersprung for my current tastes in handling. so the nest level for me is Tubular upper control arms and good alignment, .99 T bars, re-rated rear spings, and possibly koni's.

hope this helps.
Michael

[BLWN1]

bump for updates and pics from anyone......

[rjsjea]

bump for updates and pics from anyone......

Stock type suspension or AlterK/custom one?

[BLWN1]

any.....

[blown9746]

i think you definitely have to upgrade your rolling stock also. Narrow, tall sidewall, 14" tires are not meant to handle