Chevy II suspension

[springman]

Has anyone completed a 66-67 chevy II using a Wayne Due C4 front clip? I am looking for some feedback from a finished, driving car. I really want to know if there is a reason someone has not tried to produce it as Wayne is out of business. This seemed like the ideal pt clip compared to what is available right now for the early novas. Thanks in advance for your comments.

Todd

[silver69camaro]

The problem with putting any sort of performance suspension under the early Novas is the narrow hub track width, as they need to be extremely narrow. Our shortest C6 IFS is still about 2" too wide. We're working on a way around that, but it's tough!

[MrQuick]

We looked into it and using the C5 C6 control arms on that narrow body within C5 C6 geometry would be compromised without major body mods and engine movement.

It would be do able using the C5 C6 uprights and making the control arms around that and making use of a SN95 steering rack.

Search novanutcase's 66 project for info on using stock stuff. A lot of work done but well thought out.

[springman]

Thanks for the replies. Is there a difference between the length of the c4 vs. c5/c6 control arms? I know Wayne was advertising his clips using c4 components. Now, if they were geometrically correct and if it actually worked properly is what I am trying to find out. Of all the cars I have seen, I have not come across one that is using this clip.

[novanutcase]

We used the lowers as is but we fabricated the uppers. You'll have to move the engine back and the pick up points will be VERY close to the engine since the track width is so narrow as Vince and Matt mentioned. You'll also have to relocate some of the accesories so you'll need to fab new brackets but if you do this you'll need to make sure the serpentine belt has enough lap on the pulleys to make it work correctly! You'll also need to make sure that the P/U points don't interfere with the headers and that you can get to them to work on them.
Just a few of the fun things you'll get to contend with if you go this route!

John

[springman]

Thanks for the info John. I am hoping not to get as carried away as you are! I am sure you thought that when you started as well. That is going to be one incredible car when you are done.
Have you seen anyone using the wayne due clip?

[novanutcase]

Thanks for the info John. I am hoping not to get as carried away as you are! I am sure you thought that when you started as well. That is going to be one incredible car when you are done.
Have you seen anyone using the wayne due clip?

On a duece? No! Not in person. Most II owners really like the Chris Alston clip since it is all there in one package for them but, as the name implies, I'm crazy and wanted to push the envelope! I wlil say that from all the hard work that we've put into the front end the numbers look to be a pretty good compromise for the packaging issues that we've had to work with.
Actually, I almost went with Wayne after seeing Doug Sinjems '66 but Doug got stalled on his project. Unfortunately this was when Wayne had some zoning issues that put him out of business! You may want to contact Doug and see where he's at with his project. Not sure where you're located but you may even be able to go look at it. I contacted Doug since he lives fairly close to me and he was nice enough to take the time and show me what he had and some of the do's and don't's that he recommended.

John

[MrQuick]

Thanks for the info John. I am hoping not to get as carried away as you are! I am sure you thought that when you started as well. That is going to be one incredible car when you are done.
Have you seen anyone using the wayne due clip?

There was a guy here but I believe he sold the car. Geometry wasn't right. Hey John, did Doug ever get back on track?

If you don't want to get too far into it then try to forget about the C4- C5 stuff and maybe look into constructing a frame that uses stock or aftermarket 1st gen F body X body suspension that improves geometry and adds a rack/pinion. A lot less work and very achievable by a home builder. I spoke to Wayne about this years back but he only got around to doing it for Camaro's.

[novanutcase]

There was a guy here but I believe he sold the car. Geometry wasn't right. Hey John, did Doug ever get back on track?

If you don't want to get too far into it then try to forget about the C4- C5 stuff and maybe look into constructing a frame that uses stock or aftermarket 1st gen F body X body suspension that improves geometry and adds a rack/pinion. A lot less work and very achievable by a home builder. I spoke to Wayne about this years back but he only got around to doing it for Camaro's.

I don't know! Last time he and I talked he had someone changing the pickup points because the guy that was doing the changes thought they were wrong? Haven't heard from him in a while!

Springman, just curious but what is it you want to do with your II?

John

[springman]

John,
I am looking for an all around driver, ls based, capable of participating in autocross etc. I have raced the car as a stock suspension bracket car since 1990. I want to be able to use it without having to trailer it somewhere. BTW, I am outside Tampa,Fl.

Todd

[parsonsj]

Todd,

I built my own front and rear suspension for mine (67). I had lots of help, and the narrow track hit us on the head repeatedly. Stock geometries (C4/C5) are hard to do, since narrowing the rack induces bump steer unless other measures are also introduced.

I don't know which of the aftermarket Nova subframes are superior in handling characteristics, but you might want to poke around over on Steve's Nova Site.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do.

jp

[springman]

JP,
Have you thought of taking what you have built into your front end and producing a clip for these cars? I have to believe there would be a large market for this. I am sure there is a chassis company that would work with you!

I believe anyone with a chevyII has followed your build. Your craftsmanship is incredible. Will you be displaying at PRI this year or going to the Turkey Tour @ Daytona? I would like to see it in person.

Todd

[parsonsj]

Todd,

Sure, I've thought about it. There are lots of problems with cost (billet uprights, C4 bearings, Woodward rack, needle bearings, etc. etc.) and some with IP rights. I'd think the retail cost of a system based on mine would be very expensive.

Still ... I'd listen if a chassis shop approached me. So far ... none have. :)

jp

[parsonsj]

Will you be displaying at PRI this yearMaybe. I'm talking with MagnaFlow (they put me in the SEMA show) about PRI. I'll know in a week or so.

jp

[Don_Berry]

The problem with putting any sort of performance suspension under the early Novas is the narrow hub track width, as they need to be extremely narrow. Our shortest C6 IFS is still about 2" too wide. We're working on a way around that, but it's tough!

What about using wheel offset to compensate for the addtional width?

I narrowed some 4th gen Camaro wheels for the front of mine. I also converted to first gen Camaro spindles with the Global West conversion kit and used the PBR calipers from an LS1 Camaro.

This picture shows the different wheel widths - 8" rear and 6" front
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/11/2238684-1.jpg

Here's the caliper and hub
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/11/medium-1.jpg


More details...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/11/medium-2.jpg

And the latest motor - shifted at 8500!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/11/large-1.jpg

You can see all the pics at http://www.pbase.com/donbe/the_deuce

[novanutcase]

JP,
Have you thought of taking what you have built into your front end and producing a clip for these cars? I have to believe there would be a large market for this. I am sure there is a chassis company that would work with you!

I believe anyone with a chevyII has followed your build. Your craftsmanship is incredible. Will you be displaying at PRI this year or going to the Turkey Tour @ Daytona? I would like to see it in person.

Todd

Todd!

Before you go any further you really should see JP's car! What a work of art! The Magnaflow guys(and girl!:yum: :seizure: :naughty: ) probably thought I was casing the joint to try and steal the car I was there so much! LOL!

JP,

Maybe you can talk to some of the guys over at steves and see if anyone would be game to applying all you've learned for the deuce suspension?!? Hell, Maybe you could even get Wayne Due to step away from the berry farm for a minute and set one up! LOL!

John

[novanutcase]

John,
I am looking for an all around driver, ls based, capable of participating in autocross etc. I have raced the car as a stock suspension bracket car since 1990. I want to be able to use it without having to trailer it somewhere. BTW, I am outside Tampa,Fl.

Todd

If that's the case I would imagine that most any of the pre fab clips they make now would do the job unless you want to get into some serious competition. Some clips that come to mind are Chris Alston, Art Morrison, TCI, etc.
Or are you willing to go through the hassle of trying to wring out the most performance that you can make work between the fenders of the car? JP I think you have your first customer! LOL!

John

BTW Nice Bullet!

[MrQuick]

yeah John has a lot of free time now! LOL

Don good stuff. But we are trying to get away from the old tired style suspension. When driving hard with a little auto x its hard to hold on to the alignment specs.
My 67 was a BTCH after a hard drive down the block.

[Don_Berry]

yeah John has a lot of free time now! LOL

Don good stuff. But we are trying to get away from the old tired style suspension. When driving hard with a little auto x its hard to hold on to the alignment specs.
My 67 was a BTCH after a hard drive down the block.

My point was that if the C6 solutions were 2" too wide, then wheel offset may be the answer.

While I whole heartedly agree that old stuff is not the best solution. When my Deuce was in "PT / Daily Driver" mode, there was word on the internal Porsche forum at Microsoft to "watch out for the old Chevy that looks like a refrigerator!" More than one new Carrera was stung trying to catch with me in the straight after I pushed them in the corners. :naughty:
:6gears: