Hard time Choosing.. built LS2 or stock LS7 give me your vote!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

what ya think?...

looks like it time to choose my engine.

I started out wanting a LS2 in Venny..

NOW i want an LS7..

i can afford the LS7 but am i being too much?

so please help me choose..

LS7 witch is stock is 505 hp crate from Summit.

or

LS2 built from TurnKey engine supply.. 550 hp.

both are relatively the same price.. ls7 13k.. ls2 is 13.1k
and i can pick up the LS7 being that summit is here in GA.

i know there is alot of potential for the LS7 if i build it.. but hell strait out of the crate tuned to 550.. id like to get around 600 when all is said and done.. but also im rediculous and want something pretty exotic.

both will be running a Monster built 4L60E with Twist machines paddle shrifter.. sitting in a Art Morrison AME subframe done to the hilt.


if you were in my shoes.. which would you choose?

thanks fellas!

[chicane67]

An LS7.

A stock LS7 with the UMI/MSD MEFI4 and the cable 90mm TB make right about 550 without doing anything else. The 50hp tune is part of the stock base load programs loaded in the Ingenious software.

600+hp with a simple cam change and the right header selection isnt even a second thought. Besides a low MOI rules...

[trapin]

Well, if money is not an option than go LS7.

Personally I would go with the a crate LS2 from GM Performance, drop in a monster cam, AFR's, FAST 90/90 and be pretty close to 600hp while saving myself $4000 in the process. Why have some shop build and sell you an engine? From my experience so far they are not hard engines to understand and stitch together.

But again, if money's not an option and you just gotta have that dry sump system, go for the LS7.

[Damn True]

Both Tom and tony make good points but if it were me, I wouldn't want to screw with the dry sump stuff.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

why is that?

i havent done alot of research to the dry sump stuff.. is it a nightmare?

and Money IS an object, im just saying that i have enough to get the engine.

i still have to factor the other parts that i havent included in the build.

[Rybar]

Stock LS7 all the way, throw in a nice cam and headers and you'll be at 600 pretty easy i'd say. You should talk to Tyler at ATS as they helped Mark Stielow with Camaro-x or even Scott from lateral-g.net he is building and LS7 '69 as far as what's involved with the dry sump.

[Damn True]

Packaging, plumbing etc.

If I'm not mistaken (not beyond the realm of possibility) some of the peripheral stuff is a lot more pricey for the LS7.

[6'9"Witha69]

Packaging, plumbing etc.

If I'm not mistaken (not beyond the realm of possibility) some of the peripheral stuff is a lot more pricey for the LS7.Setting up the dry sump alone can set you back 500-1k. It all adds up really quick.

[MastMotorsports]

Our L92 HO makes about 540 hp for $11,200. This engine is complete from air filter to oil pan and comes fully controlled using our M-90 ECM and wiring harness. If you are looking for more than 540 hp we also have an L92 427 and an LSX block 454. All of these packages use our Variable Valve Timing featured in this months issue of Super Chevy.

Shaun
www.mastmotorsports.com (http://www.mastmotorsports.com)

[Damn True]

Again, this is just my feeling. I'm no expert. I personally would stick with the engine that has the broader collection of parts support and available knowledge base.

[4MuscleMachines]

I was going to go with an LS7 but after some research, I will go with an LS3. Simple cam swap, headers, and tune and you'll be at 500rwhp with a nice TQ curve. That is plenty of naturally aspirated power for the street. Best part is that the LS3 is marginally more expensive than the LS2 crate engine and much less expensive than the LS7 (and that's not even considering the LS7s dry sump pan, lines, and oil cannister costs).

[skeeters65]

LS7 from GM..
One word for you..




WARRANTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

isnt the L92 the iron block motor?

im not totally in the know but i want to have an aluminum block engine for weight savings.. seeing as im going to take the car road racing.

:help!:


Our L92 HO makes about 540 hp for $11,200. This engine is complete from air filter to oil pan and comes fully controlled using our M-90 ECM and wiring harness. If you are looking for more than 540 hp we also have an L92 427 and an LSX block 454. All of these packages use our Variable Valve Timing featured in this months issue of Super Chevy.

Shaun
www.mastmotorsports.com (http://www.mastmotorsports.com)

[MastMotorsports]

The L92 is an aluminum block 6.2L engine. It is exactly the same engine as an LS3 except that it has Variable Valve Timing, and exhaust valve reliefs. Our L92 HO V2 has an extremly broad torque curve due to the VVT, makes 540 horsepower, comes with an 18 month warranty, makes comparable power to an LS7, and costs much much less than an LS7 thats ready to run. A comparable LS2 is still more expensive, and can't make the power due to cylinder head design. An LS3 will be comparable, but will lack the advantages gained by the L92's VVT when it comes to idle, drivability, and power. Our l92 also comes ready to run with a calibrated ECM, Oil Temp sensor, Electric Fan Controls, Vintage Air Trinary Switch Control, ect. If you have any questions you can call to talk to me or Shaun directly here at the shop.

Horace Mast
Mast Motorsports
936-560-2218
www.mastmotorsports.com (http://www.mastmotorsports.com)

[BossaNova]

Hey man. When is Chevy gonna release the LSX 454 crate engine? Sometime later this year?

-Mark

[BossaNova]

Oh. Sorry about the previous post about the iron block LSX. Didn't notice you specified an al++ block.

Anyway, just noticed this on the ATS website........ HOT ROD is releasing a ‘how to’ article on installing a dry sump LS7/T56 into a 1st Gen F body in the next few months, showcasing all of our purpose built engineered adapters allowing the swap to become a true bolt in affair.........

-Mark

[MastMotorsports]

Oh. Sorry about the previous post about the iron block LSX. Didn't notice you specified an al++ block.

Anyway, just noticed this on the ATS website........ HOT ROD is releasing a ‘how to’ article on installing a dry sump LS7/T56 into a 1st Gen F body in the next few months, showcasing all of our purpose built engineered adapters allowing the swap to become a true bolt in affair.........

-Mark

Mark,

We also have a 454 LSX block crate engine. It has all of the features of our L92 packages, but uses the LSX block to get the 454 cubic inches. Our 454 also uses the same Variable Valve Timing technology that we use in our L92 engine packages.

Shaun
www.mastmotorsports.com (http://www.mastmotorsports.com)

[BossaNova]

Mark,

We also have a 454 LSX block crate engine. It has all of the features of our L92 packages, but uses the LSX block to get the 454 cubic inches. Our 454 also uses the same Variable Valve Timing technology that we use in our L92 engine packages.

Shaun
www.mastmotorsports.com (http://www.mastmotorsports.com)

Awright. _Now_ you've got my undivided attention. How about some dyno graphs for the 454 LSX.

[WS6]

Venomous,

If power is all you want, go with the LS2/3 or L92. The LS7 is a lot of money. If you want to be able to say you have an LS7, well, there's only one way to do that. Personally, I don't see the need for dry sump oiling unless you really plan to be out there on a road course often. There are many many people running wet sump systems on road course a couple times a year without issue.

[jonnyc]

l92 would be my choice.then a stroked ls2.

[skeeters65]

Stock LS7 from GM
Same reason as before....



WARRANTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

If you're going to touch the LS7 IN ANY WAY (thus voiding the warranty) then I would vote for a built LS2 (why not an built LS3?)

Unless you want the "coolness factor" of saying you have an LS7. It is a better engine and it has more "potential" than the LS2 since it has more cubes but it's 2.5 times more money. The best part about it is the dry-sump system but to make that work you will need to spend more $$$ on a tank and stuff.

Just my .02

[Steve1968LS2]

Sorry, I didn't realize the LS2 was THAT much money.. In that case I would vote for the stock LS7.

You could save a bunch of $$$ and do a tweaked LS2(3). Heads, Cam, intake and you're easily over 500hp for under $8,000.

[trapin]

Yeah, the minute you touch the LS7 the warrenty gets ripped up. I guess I just don't see what is so damn exciting about a dry sump system. It's oil...who the hell gives a rats ass? You tell people at your local car show that you have that and I guarantee 9 out of 10 will give you a blank stare. This is like bragging about your catch can for your anti-freeze. The only benefit it has is in Road Racing. For a street car it's absolutely not necessary.

Venomous....LS2...Cam....Fast 90/90...AFR's. Get your 580hp and then use the 4K somewhere else on your vehicle. Or hell...take the girlfriend on a nice cruise in the Bahama's.

[MastMotorsports]

Awright. _Now_ you've got my undivided attention. How about some dyno graphs for the 454 LSX.

Sorry, no dyno graphs of the LSX 454 VVT yet. We hope to have it fully calibrated with power numbers by the SEMA show, but you guys will be the first to know. We will have one running at our booth in Memphis at the LSX Shootout, so you can get an up close look if you are coming out this weekend. We will also have our R&D car there running the event. It is a 2000 T/A with our L92 HO engine package.

Shaun
www.mastmotorsports.com (http://www.mastmotorsports.com)

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Steve

well thats what it says on the Turnkey site.. i know you have a turnkey engine LS2, did you change it up?

i just want something i can pretty much drop in there, not really have to build. or just buy it built..

the LS7 i was concidering messing with it when i feel i want more umpf, so i could chill with the 505"or whatever it really is" HP till i driven the warranty out..

because the first thing im going to do is take her to lil Talladega road course that i drove last weekend..

puts ALL of this bS'ing on here into perspective...


Sorry, I didn't realize the LS2 was THAT much money.. In that case I would vote for the stock LS7.

You could save a bunch of $$$ and do a tweaked LS2(3). Heads, Cam, intake and you're easily over 500hp for under $8,000.

[CarlC]

If you are not planning on serious track time and wringing out the motor for long periods of time then go with a less expensive option.

Now, think of it this way. How many aftermarket companies run their engines for 300 hour WOT durability tests? GM knows what they are doing when it comes to making durable, long lasting engines.

Oil control and cooling is a huge factor. It's easy on a short dyno run. It's a lot harder in a chassis that can tame 500+HP in more than just a straight line.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve

well thats what it says on the Turnkey site.. i know you have a turnkey engine LS2, did you change it up?

i just want something i can pretty much drop in there, not really have to build. or just buy it built..

the LS7 i was concidering messing with it when i feel i want more umpf, so i could chill with the 505"or whatever it really is" HP till i driven the warranty out..

because the first thing im going to do is take her to lil Talladega road course that i drove last weekend..

puts ALL of this bS'ing on here into perspective...

No, I had a GM crate LS2 then put on AFR heads, FAST intake and a healty COMP cam.

You could save money and the LS6 heads on the LS2 reworked.

$800 for Fast Intake
$1500 for heads
$400 camshaft

= >500 horsepower.. easy..

The LS2 crate engine is $5500 and you can sell the un-used junk of it for $500 of that.

I will say that Turn Key does build some nice engines though.

[newbe60]

Here's a simple recipe for 573hp and 504 torque at the crank

ls2 crate motor from GM Parts direct $5721
Fast intake 90/90 from LMperforamnce $799
AFR heads 205 from brothers performance $2294
Comp cam 230/232 591/595 plus parts about $400
total $9,210

see http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0611phr_ls2_modification/

engine will sound like it has a cam.. but the cam is not too much so you could drive it in traffic

The $4,000 you save could go to other important items for your car

[Steve1968LS2]

Here's a simple recipe for 573hp and 504 torque at the crank

ls2 crate motor from GM Parts direct $5721
Fast intake 90/90 from LMperforamnce $799
AFR heads 205 from brothers performance $2294
Comp cam 230/232 591/595 plus parts about $400
total $9,210

see http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0611phr_ls2_modification/

engine will sound like it has a cam.. but the cam is not too much so you could drive it in traffic

The $4,000 you save could go to other important items for your car

Wish I had thought of that! lol ;)

You could save big on that recipie by foregoing the AFR heads and having the LS6 heads that come on the LS2 massaged and tweeked. That would knock almost a grand off the cost and only cost a little power.

[Damn True]

Keep in mind though, you'd still need a harness, a computer (does the LS2 crate come with one), tunning and accesories. The Mast and Turnkey stuff seems to come in a smidge cheaper.

Unless you have the LS6 heads ported then (quick math.....carry the 2....) it's pretty close.

[ssrogers]

Well, I voted LS7 even though I'm eventually going to build up the LS2 in my Corvette.

For an LS7,
I'm know that cam and tune the thing would make 600hp. The heads are great as they are, there is really no need to replace them.

[Mr. B]

It seems from looking at the Mast and Turnkey sites that these motors don't like to make much over 500 ft-lbs of torque. Does anyone know why?

[ssrogers]

That's why I'll be changing my crank to a 4" to make a 402ci LS2.

I'm wanting a motor that has torque everywhere rather than just an impressive peak hp number. Select your parts carefully and there is no reason you shouldn't have 500 ft-lbs from a built LS2.

[ss dave]

Got a wet sump LS7 for the 69. Wanted a 500rwhp NA powerplant, without the help of a bottle or blower. I also wanted to pay tribute to the 69 ZL-1 with it's alum 427. Couldn't do that with a LS2/3/ etc. Now with that being said it's $$$. If it doesn't matter then a beefed LS2 is the way to go. Lots cheaper, lots parts, lots easier, been there done that. As Steve has shown with Bad Penny you can get alot of hp from a LS2 for alot less than LS7. The new LSx is an iron beast that some are pushing beyond a 454 but a healthy LS2 can put alot of rubber down for alot less money down. Still the LS7 is cool, it's just pricey.

[01somta]

Sorry, I didn't realize the LS2 was THAT much money.. In that case I would vote for the stock LS7.

You could save a bunch of $$$ and do a tweaked LS2(3). Heads, Cam, intake and you're easily over 500hp for under $8,000.

I was thinking about going with a carb'ed 540ci, but after reading this thread I am thinking twice about it. So I like the idea of LS2 with heads, cam, and intake; but would it be any benefit going with a LS6 platform and doing the same upgrades?

http://www.friendlypartscenter.com/product.php?productid=16461&cat=873&page=1

[streetk14]

Here's a simple recipe for 573hp and 504 torque at the crank

ls2 crate motor from GM Parts direct $5721
Fast intake 90/90 from LMperforamnce $799
AFR heads 205 from brothers performance $2294
Comp cam 230/232 591/595 plus parts about $400
total $9,210

see http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0611phr_ls2_modification/

engine will sound like it has a cam.. but the cam is not too much so you could drive it in traffic

The $4,000 you save could go to other important items for your car


You do know that that motor in the PHR article is in Steve's (Steve1968LS2) "Penny" Camaro, right? I though it was funny since he was posting in this thread. But yes, I do agree that it is an easy way to make some power.

Venomous,
Have you thought about getting a low-mileage used LS2? They are out there, and you could slap some heads & a cam on it to duplicate Steve's combo and have a killer engine for a lot less money. It would also be complete with accessories and a usable engine harness. Just a thought,

Andy

[01somta]

[/b]

I was thinking about going with a carb'ed 540ci, but after reading this thread I am thinking twice about it. So I like the idea of LS2 with heads, cam, and intake; but would it be any benefit going with a LS6 platform and doing the same upgrades?

http://www.friendlypartscenter.com/product.php?productid=16461&cat=873&page=1

ttt???

[streetk14]

[/b]

I was thinking about going with a carb'ed 540ci, but after reading this thread I am thinking twice about it. So I like the idea of LS2 with heads, cam, and intake; but would it be any benefit going with a LS6 platform and doing the same upgrades?

http://www.friendlypartscenter.com/product.php?productid=16461&cat=873&page=1


You could do the same thing with an LS6, but that really wouldn't make much sense. The LS6 is really just an LS1 with better heads and a more aggressive cam. The short blocks are nearly identical, so I wouldn't spend the extra cash on an LS6 if you plan to change the heads and cam anyways. I'd get an LS1 for cheaper and do the head, cam and intake swap to it instead. Both the LS1 & LS6 are 5.7 liter engines.

The LS2 is a 6.0 liter motor, and it has the same heads as the LS6 (only with different valves) but a milder cam. It makes 400 hp stock (same as the LS6), but the extra cubic inches make it a better choice if you are going to modify it for more power.

But I guess to really answer your question, the LS2 would be the better platform to build over the LS6 due to the extra cubic inches. Other than that, there is not much different and either motor will work just fine and make good power with the right parts.

Andy

[01somta]

You could do the same thing with an LS6, but that really wouldn't make much sense. The LS6 is really just an LS1 with better heads and a more aggressive cam. The short blocks are nearly identical, so I wouldn't spend the extra cash on an LS6 if you plan to change the heads and cam anyways. I'd get an LS1 for cheaper and do the head, cam and intake swap to it instead. Both the LS1 & LS6 are 5.7 liter engines.

The LS2 is a 6.0 liter motor, and it has the same heads as the LS6 (only with different valves) but a milder cam. It makes 400 hp stock (same as the LS6), but the extra cubic inches make it a better choice if you are going to modify it for more power.

But I guess to really answer your question, the LS2 would be the better platform to build over the LS6 due to the extra cubic inches. Other than that, there is not much different and either motor will work just fine and make good power with the right parts.

Andy

Thank you that is exactly what I needed to know.

[Rick D]

Hay don't for get that the LS7 has CAST pistons that I have heard aren't very good.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

ferreal?

[WS6]

Shouldn't be anything worse than the rest of the LSx pistons. If you're staying NA don't worry about it. Start boosting or gassing and you may end up with issues.

[BA.]

I'm pretty sure they are hypereutectic. (sp?)

I've read they they were questionable above 650hp I think......

[deuce_454]

hypereutectic is still a cast piston.... just a different alloy..

but what did you end up deciding???

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i decided to go LS7.. if all is in the cards.. nothing final.. but thats my aim.

[matthimself456]

Now heres a call I wish I had to make.

[jeff s]

I'd go with our new 700 hp NA LS7.
Add a dry sump to the LS2 or L92, see what that costs.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

yea but how much is the 700hp ls7!?

[shudog]

Well, if money is not an option than go LS7.

Personally I would go with the a crate LS2 from GM Performance, drop in a monster cam, AFR's, FAST 90/90 and be pretty close to 600hp while saving myself $4000 in the process. Why have some shop build and sell you an engine? From my experience so far they are not hard engines to understand and stitch together.

But again, if money's not an option and you just gotta have that dry sump system, go for the LS7.

Couldn't agree more. Crate LS2 built with your own heads/cam/tuning shouldn't be more than $2500 on top of the crate motor.