Quarter Mile Times?

[KrisHorton]

Hey everyone,

As I'm finishing the engine setup for our Chevelle project, I'm constantly pondering what kind of times the combo will be able to pull off. Then I think to myself, "Self, do you really even know what you want to run?" Truthfully, I would be happy with a low 12-second car. This is kind of a nice number for a Pro-Touring car, right?

The combo I'm running, which I can't say too much about right now (not just out of secrecy, but partially due to some variables that are still undecided) should be capable of running mid-10's with the right tuning.

I guess the big question is, what should I shoot for? Fast as possible, or toned down and somewhat reasonable? Either way, I want the car to be streetable, but I just don't know which direction to go with it. If I set it up to run 11's or lower, will I be giving up any streetability?

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I'm new to the whole going crazy fast concept. :icon996:

Thanks for your input!

Kris

[Zefhix]

Kris,
If it's a naturally aspirated engine, then the faster you go, the less "streetable" it is. When you have any kind of power adder involved (I don't know/you won't say) it generally allows you to run alot quicker on an otherwise fairly tame motor SB or BB.
Case in point, I have a friend with an 8:1 forged bottom ended BB462 with a very close to stock cam (you can only hear a slight lump when it's cold) running a 177ci roots-style mini blower at 8psi. Now the roots aren't terribly effecient but they do their job and his car is as close to mild as you can get. However, the 3400lb car will easily run low 12s, high 11s.

I've always thought that a car that runs 11.99 AND can do it all with the A/C on without going into o/d is the way to go and that's exactly what I'm shooting for in my 70 Chevelle!

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Kris,

Are you planning these times on 17" or bigger wheels, or 16" ET streets or slicks or something? 10's on 17s is much much much less attainable then 10s on slicks. I would shoot for whatever you feel is good for YOU. High 11s on 17" street tires is an amazing feat in my book. Like Zefhix said, if it's N/A, the more power the less streetable, then again streetable is all relative. It's really only what you consider streetability.

For Fantom, I'll have the power to weight to run high 9s. Will I ever see a 9 second 1/4 mile? Almost definitely not. Truth be told, I'll be very happy with mid-high 10s on slicks or ET streets, and mid-high 11s on street tires(18s). :).

[nancejd]

Personally, I think anything that runs 12s at all is pretty fast for a street car. At that point you are talking about a stock Z06 (as a reference). Something that runs that fast really is a lot to handle, especially if it doesn't have traction control and the electronic stability that the Vett has. It can suprise you if you aren't used to it. Also don't forget that the faster you go, the more safety equipment and modifications are required to run your car at a track, and those more than anything else will make your car less "streetable".

[KrisHorton]

I think I will settle for low 12's. That would be just fine. I will put up some specs on the engine once I know more. 10's would be fun, but realistically, traction could be a problem, as could the large wheels.

Kris

[Ralph LoGrasso]

James, very true on the safety equip. Kris, are you planning a cage? Fantom will have a 12pt cage. You'll need a cage for anything under 11.50, I think (NHRA)? Stock Zs are now hitting high 11s, all stock. Traction control is a tricky topic. I think most people turn off the traction control. When the Z first came out, the best runs were made without the traction control on, if I remember correctly.

[Zefhix]

Kris, didn't you say your sponsor wants you to design at least 20"s for your 71? That's going to create all kinds of obsticles to overcome.....

[dennis68]

Kris, didn't you say your sponsor wants you to design at least 20"s for your 71? That's going to create all kinds of obsticles to overcome.....


Besides being fugly. For free wheels I'd run whatever, but I'd definitely have another set for anytime its not where they could see it.:naughty:

If mine runs mid 11's and still keeps up with the C6 on the road course I'll be happy with that.

[KrisHorton]

Can anybody give me a relatively simple explanation on why a larger diameter wheel/tire will cause problems? I'm just curious. I would like to run a pair of 18x10s in the back if I can, but if the sponsors want to give me 20's, that's what I will probably end up doing.

Kris

[nancejd]

I don't think it is the larger wheel per se, it is that you generally have to run a shorter sidewall to get them to fit. As an extreme example, if you ever watch slow motion of a top fuel car, you can see how much twisting the tire does as the car launches. The tire is basically acting as a giant spring in order to keep the contact patch on the ground. As the sidewall gets shorter, it becomes more rigid, so when the wheel moves, so does the contact patch, lighting up the tires. So a short sidewall creates an inherent traction problem during acceleration.

[KrisHorton]

That actually makes quite a bit of sense, thanks for the answer! I'd like to keep my 15" aluminum Welds with the 295's for racing, but my brakes are going to be too big. It's a bit of a trade-off I guess.

I'm not necessarily looking for a serious strip car as it is. I just want to be running a good, fast time. Should be fun from a roll though, eh?

I will say this about the motor, but the rest is sketchy, it's not N/A, it's going to be ProCharged. We're building for around 700hp, maybe a bit more, mayber a bit less. Only time will tell.

Kris

[andrewb70]

With my GTO the goal was to be able to run in the 12s. On street tires my best has been 12.5. If you have a ProCharged BB, then I think your goal needs to be at least 11.9s.

I can also tell you that your first trip to the drag strip will be one of the most humbling experiences of your life! I know it was for me.

Andrew

[nancejd]

Kris, you might want to look at getting a pair of 16x8s for drag racing. That should clear most rear brakes, plus you can get drag radials or ET Streets on that rim. If you have a good launch, those should hold up to what you want to do, there are lots of cars running amazing times on an 8" tire.

[shmoov69]

Around 700 hp BBC should fry the tires pretty good!! Espically if your suspension is set up for corners! It will be easier to hook with a procharger than turbo(s) because you don't have instant tq without a transbrake like you would with turbos. So you will be out a bit before you get to stupid power levels! BUT........700hp is a friggin' ton!! On street tires, it will be useless at lower speeds! Heck, mine only has 500rwhp and 600rwtq and it is a waste (of tires) anywhere under 70mph on the street! Granted, the tq comes on almost instant down low with the turbos tho. But it sure is fun smoking the tires next to someone while going down the interstate! With good tires, it should be EASY into the low 11's
Jimmy

[KrisHorton]

As mature and respectable as I may be for my age, that 6-700hp is going to instantly put me back into my punk-a$$ teenager phase.

And we all know how you would act, being just shy of 21 with all that power at your fingertips. Have to be careful around here though, it's a small town and word will get around to the local law enforcement REAL fast about the punk kid in a muscle car.

Things I look forward to on this car include:

-Roasting the tires from a 25mph roll (never been able to do that before.)

-Being able to actually use the word boost in reference to my car and have it NOT be a 4-banger.

-Seeing people my age's faces when I show them the engine. Goes to show not only the imports get goodies.

I look forward to a lot of things, but first and foremost, we need to finish the car. More to come!

Kris

[camcojb]

Boy, are you gonna have fun!

Jody :jump:

[jonny51]

As mature and respectable as I may be for my age, that 6-700hp is going to instantly put me back into my punk-a$$ teenager phase.

And we all know how you would act, being just shy of 21 with all that power at your fingertips. Have to be careful around here though, it's a small town and word will get around to the local law enforcement REAL fast about the punk kid in a muscle car.

Things I look forward to on this car include:

-Roasting the tires from a 25mph roll (never been able to do that before.)

-Being able to actually use the word boost in reference to my car and have it NOT be a 4-banger.

-Seeing people my age's faces when I show them the engine. Goes to show not only the imports get goodies.

I look forward to a lot of things, but first and foremost, we need to finish the car. More to come!

Kris

Oh come on Kris l law enforcement will love the fact a "kid" has a real car and not a import. :woot: They might wanna see that "roasting tires from 25mph"

[KrisHorton]

Back when I was still driving it, I had a cop pull up behind me in the school parking lot with 2 other officers in the cruiser, one of which drove the D.A.R.E. Z28 Camaro.

I asked if I had done anything wrong and one of them replied, "Just checking out the competition!"

Been pulled over by police before and gotten warnings, but most of them just wanted a look at the car, which is funny because it was really just a 20/20 car with a bright red (semi-ghetto) coat of paint.

Things should be interesting once I start driving the reincarnated version around!

Kris

[zbugger]

I'll post a pic of my car once I can move it so you can see what the cops wer looking at when they pulled me over. They all just wanted to look at it. The no front plate thing was just an excuse to ask me what I was doing to the car.

[Nine Ball]

Kris, 12s are very respectable for a daily driver. Of course, down here in Houston there are too many 10-11 second daily drivers running around so I like to make my toys run a little sweeter.

I'm shooting for high 10s with the supercharger, and eventually 9s with some nitrous added to the mix. I want it to look good......and run better!

Tony

[gen3bu]

kris,
trust tony's advice, i have seen his 69 run 11.77 on 17" wheels.
i hope for mine to run a high 8 low 9 on 18" nitto 555r's!!!
pm me i would like a rendering of the car somtime.

kevin

[wickedmotorhead]

Roasting the tires at 25mph....... :rotfl: THAT should be no problem my friend!!!!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
(I know wrong year, but it gets the point across)
I cant wait to see your car at SEMA man. Geese I feel like my engine is a mouse compaired to some of you guys on this forum. :banghead:

[ProdigyCustoms]

It will be easier to hook with a procharger than turbo(s) because you don't have instant tq without a transbrake like you would with turbos. So you will be out a bit before you get to stupid power levels!
Jimmy

I totally disagree. I just came back from The World Street nationals, and the turbos are by far the best for putting the power down gradually. A Procharger will make instant boost, much faster than an adjustable wastegated turbo. Turbos can be adjusted indefinitely to graduate boost, where I am sure Kris Procharger will be on pretty good boost much quicker.

Tires will be a limiting factor, but also suspension, as handling car are not very conducive to weight transfer (front to rear) that a drag car needs. When you get this fast, you need a car that will lift the front and put the power to the rear wheels. That is why you see Vipers run low 10s that should be 135MPH speeds, but instead with 145MPH, 9.50 range speed. If the guy with the fast Viper in the other post put a 4 link, tires, and a 90/10 type front end under that thing, it would bust big numbers. But don't dare take a corner.

It is not to hard to get even a handling car in the 11s. But it will take some pretty serious HP to over come the poor launch to get a PT car in the 10s, it will take 9 second weight to HP to reach 10s if it steers at all.

With all that said, Kris is likely to need a wet wipe after his first pass no matter what it ETs on sheer HP alone. And that is a good thing!

[MoeBawlz]

Dont worry about it... some of us are still punk kids.. Im only 20 and I think Ralph is 19 or 20. nice to see more young people invovled in big projects like this.

Who are your sponsors?
Are you doing the work on your car?

Aside from that what program doy ou use for your renderings? Im starting to use 3D studio max now and getting into surface modeling in Unigraphics. I was just curious as to what you use and what you thought of the program.

[KrisHorton]

I cant wait to see your car at SEMA man. :banghead:

Me either! :fingersx:

Only change to the engine at this point in the game is the intercooler will be absent at SEMA. Spoke with Procharger and we all figure a straight-up non-intercooled setup will look really clean for SEMA. We'll be putting the intercooler on before we hit the track though. :headbang:

Kris

[KrisHorton]

...Kris is likely to need a wet wipe after his first pass no matter what it ETs on sheer HP alone. And that is a good thing!


I'm counting on it. I'll have to wear Depends the first few times at the track...

You can bet I won't be mashing the pedal right away either. :drive:

[shmoov69]

Sorry, I misplaced "without a transbrake" in my original post. On a street car (real street car that is) I think that the supercharger takes a little longer to get to max boost without a transbrake, than the turbo does. Granted, I have never personally had a vehicle with a supercharger, only turbos, but I have had several friends that have had them so, I may be a little out of context. But this is just what I have seen.
On my car, the thing is not a featherweight, and it can dip (I mean only dip too!) into the 10's with slicks. I had to change the front springs to get it to do it also. I used to have big block springs cut which in turn left me NO stored energy for weight transfer, thus resulting in very long smokey burnouts like you said :evil: . So I had Kyle make me a set of coils and now just unhook my sway bar to make it transfer. Without doing a total suspension redo, that is the best that I can do!
I planned on going to the street finals, but could not get away. I had a few friends there trying to get in. One missed drag radial by 4 spots and the other made outlaw (I think) 3 rounds before puking the engine in a single turbo small block 69ish Camaro :hail: . There were several local (to me) people there, but do not know the outcome of theirs yet. Maybe next year! The drag radial class sounded like it was AWESOME!
Jimmy

[ProdigyCustoms]

Drag radial was fantastic, best I have ever seen in many years. Exciting to watch because they run no wheelie bars, and set them up like Stockers / Super Stockers to get on the rear tires and most wheelie, or are about too.
It is a turbo class for sure, dominated by turbo Mustangs, but some nitrous cars made good showings. But it does come back to the adjustable waste gates.
I actually thought about running radial, but with the bump in the mid 8s, And the top cars in the 7.70s, I would have been well out of the money, LOL!
Only thing I hate about the street finals, is there was only a couple true street cars there. They do not have the cruise anymore, and most heavy hitters have to be towed to the lanes. However, it is what most of the not hardcore fan wants to see, 6 second Pro Mods with headlights. The hardcore racers are more empressed with the heavy (3500LB) class running 7.50s (WOW), and the radial class.
We had a few local buddies there trying to qualify, all true street bruisers. Missed the bump in heavy by a bunch with one car, but did not expect to qualify. Missed the bump with another in heavy by 3/100ths, that one hurt. Made the field with a brand new package at 15th spot with a 8.05 in a regularly cruised streeter, but went out first round.
Like I said, it is not a true street car race anymore, but a great weekend non the less.

[shmoov69]

Yeah, my buddy in with a drag radial 68 Camaro set the track record here 2 weeks prior on only one stage of juice and ran a 5.4xxx at 140mph in the 1/8th hangin the hoops 4' in the air till about the 200' mark :jawdrop:!! He told me he couldn't see a thing, but the stars and moon, but it felt good so he banged second and kept it to the wood!! Needless to say, it was a good pass! The next pass tho was not as good, it came up too hard and was about to drag the bumper (litteraly) and he had to lift a little bit, which was a bit too much and it slammed the ground pretty hard and ended up knocking a hole in the oil pan (which he did not know about until the end of the track, after he got back in it and ripped it to the end), thus causing the #1 and #2 rods to exit the block........DOOOHH :doh:!!! With his new engine in, he changed some weight around to go to FL and turned on one of the other stages of juice and it would not hook for #*^( down there and only ran in the 8.70's and DNQ'd. :barf:
I can't wait to go see that race next year, hopefully I will still have some friends running their cars there again. He said that the turbo'd radial camaro was wicked, you got any pics?
Jimmy

[ProdigyCustoms]

The turbo 3rd gen was wicked. I do not have pics, but it gave hope to the Chevy boys. The Mustangs were plentiful. I think with the Mustang racers series out there, and so many trick pieces available, they really have become the first gen Camaro's of the new millenium for racing.