How do I start my own shop?

[WS6]

I think I am crazy and maybe just pipe dreaming. I'm really thinking about leaving school again. I have too much ambition for wanting to build cars. Problem is I can't do body work or modifications with metal. I figure that's something I can learn along the way because I plan to hire someone else that could do that or simply farm it out. Ok I am getting off topic and I'm the original poster.

How do you get the money necessary to buy the equipment and everything else needed to start a shop? I have no money. I have started a parts business selling Corvette parts and LSx parts. It will launch soon. Maybe that will supply me with the needed money. However, I doubt it. Pretty much no one here knows what I do or who I am. So go here and you'll see most, but not all, of what I have been doing for the last few years. www.speedhound.com(don't look too hard, the site is at an in between stage so everything is not right) Also, I am building Corvette Fever's C4orce car(I didn't name it). You can see some of that car here http://c4orce1.com/ and here http://www.corvettefever.com/projectbuild/corp_0704_1987_chevrolet_corvette_project_car/index.html
C4orce should be back with me in the next week so I can update with better pictures then if anyone cares to see.

I operate but do not own Speed Hound. I have no desire to move back towards Savannah with my boss which is where here is 90% sure he is moving. That's the reason I started the parts business, so I could have a job once he moves. Well, I simply don't have any passion for engineering unless it's auto related. Maybe I just need to change schools. So it has me thinking maybe I should go after this car building stuff more. I can do so much . Yet there is so much I can't do. I know it's not necessary for me to be able to do it all. I just desire those abilities as well as the ones I currently have.

I don't think this post is making much sense. I'm trying to give a condensed version of all the thoughts in my head. I can't stand the idea of ignoring my dreams, but I can't do something that won't allow me to make enough money to home a home or not live pay check to pay check. Should I even consider going down this road of building cars either owner the shop or working at a shop? Or should I just stay in school and build what I can when I can in my spare time? I have nothing but two cats in my life right now, so I figure if I'm gonna try this again, I better do it now.

Thoughts, comments, questions? Even if it doesn't answer my question, I welcome it.

Thanks

[MrQuick]

Never look back on your education. Cars will always be there.

Finish school and make money cause your going to need it to run a business.

Right now you have enough to keep it small and simple for now.

[Texas Hotrod]

I was wrenching out of my garage after work and on weekends for extra $$$. The more work I did, the more people got to know what I did, the more business I got. It was to the point that I needed my own shop.
I saved money for a down payment to purchase a lot (there weren't any buildings suitable for a shop), got the financing and worked even harder to pay for it. I cleaned the place up in my spare time, checked on local building codes and contacted people that I would need future info from (city water lines/AT&T fiber optic cables/gas lines,etc...).

I got my foot in the door at the local bank with a small loan and established good credit w/them. They gave me the financing that I needed to build the shop and purchase minimal equipment. I still worked out of my house and kept my job at the time until the shell of the shop was errected. I gave my notice, quit my job and spent the next 3 weeks outfitting the shop for my needs (running air supplies, installing equipment, running electricals, digging ditches for water/sewer,etc...), I did as much of the work myself that I could handle. I applied for my state sales tax license and was scheduling repair work before my doors were officially open.

I had always been a good mechanic. Now I had to manage my finances, deal with the public on a daily basis and expand my abilities. I look back on it now and realize how little I actually knew. I've learned new skills, and made a lot of friends on the way (and some enemies). I've gone from an average wrencher to an expert fabricator and body work, engine/tranny builder. It helps that I've worked in-and-out of many shops (John Deere tractor shop/Yamaha,Suzuki bike shops/tire shop/various repair shops) to learn different trades and see how the differences were operated.
I do all of my own work. The only things I send out is apholstery and cylinder boring/mechanical machining/balancing. I've been screwed over on body work, so I now do that myself also. I'm cautious on upholsteres too. I purchased a small lathe and an old Bridgeport mill recently (2 more additions to the never ending tool list), I can now make adapters and bushings for those bolt-on parts that never seem to fit.

You can't weld, so take a welding class, and body work for that matter too. Concentrate more on metal crafting than bondo sanding. Learn how to do the major work yourself and hire a helper for the minimal issues. If you make a mess while producing work, pay some high school kid a few bucks an hour to clean it up. The less you have to pay out for pro work, the more you will have left to pay bills (and taxes). Speaking of Taxes, learn how to file the local and state sales taxes yourself, your CPA will have to figure the fed's. Insurance??? You'll have to protect yourself from thieves and vandals. Security system, survalance, security fencing, there's a lot to consider.

If you feel that you can swing it all, then go for it. If it doesn't work out, then at least you tried. The money is better when dealing with small, quick jobs. When you tie up a whole car build, it takes longer and you have a big potential to profit less. Get to know people and get people to know you. Figure out exactly what work you want to do and go from there. Keep it simple at first, then work more into other ares (other skills) as time goes by.

After 15 yeras of having my own business, there have been no regrets. I have more money in my wallet now than I ever did working for wages. I started out working on a week-to-week basis and I still have that attitude. I concentrate on a week's worth of work, pay myself a set salary per week and pay my bills that I accumulate for that week. It's easier to catch up from a slow week than a slow month. I have never had a single day where there was no work to produce (other local owners can't honestly say that). I am fortunate for that.

Just think it all through. Only you know what's truely in your heart,
Gene.

[novanutcase]

I don't own a hot rod shop but I will add and confirm what Vince and TH said!
Stay in school and learn as much as you can about business! Right now your turning wrenches but that is only the half of having a shop! All the bookeeping and personell issues that you have to deal with along with dealing with the government, etc. School will teach you that so stay and learn how to run a business, graduate, then open your shop! If it doesn't fly at least you have a degree under your belt and you can work for someone else while you devise your next plan for doing it better! Remember, there is no such thing as failure! You just learned what NOT to do next time!
BTW if you really want to learn what it's like to build a shop from ground up, talk to Rodger from Ironworks! That's what he did! He can give you some great ideas if your heart is set on doing this!

John

[ullose2]

I appreciate you starting this thread. Its one that I have started on and never finished. Are there any schools for metal work and fab. I have always dreamed about starting my own shop, but never knew how. Also I cant decide if I want to take on whole projects, small jobs, just do engine work, or body work. I have thought about attending the School of Automotive Machinists in Texas and getting a job with that and taking it from there. Hmm. I wish you the best of luck WS6. Didnt mean to hijack.



Heath

[novanutcase]

I seem to remember some school that specializes in metal fabrication! I can't seem to remember the name of it but I think it was the one that Liz Miles went to!

John

[WS6]

I already operate Speed Hound. My boss owns it but I make it go from day to day. I also have another business I am starting, so running a business isn't the hard part for me. Also I am not a business major. I am engineering which is why I question if I should continue on this course. You can't not use your Engineering degree for years and then pop up one day looking for an engineering job. I'm afraid I won't really use my engineering degree and the three year at least that I have remaining only cause me to be three years older. I'll be at least 30 before I graduate. Go ahead and laugh, I know that's not old. But I'd like to get married one day and have a family and house. I have no desire to be in my 30s still bouncing around trying to make something work, and I refuse to try to start a family and take care of a wife and kid without having a good foundation such as a successful career.

The issue I have is no money and a lot of ambition/crazy dreams. The business that I have started is simply selling parts for Corvettes and LSx parts. You don't need a lot of money to do this if you're not going to have a store front which I am not. If I started my own shop, well then I have rent and a building to worry about. Eventually employees, transport vehicles, and equipment is there as well. That's big money.

I've thought about doing it like you have Gene. Just continue on with my engineering because those jobs pay well. Get hopefully a normal job. Use that money and my free time to start in my own garage. Hopefully either stay small and steady so I can keep my ambitions fulfilled or start it up full time and go at it strong. My biggest fear is being the person who says I've wanted this for 15 years but life got in the way. I can't put my dreams on hold like that. They are all I have.

This is also why I question if I wouldn't be better off at a different school getting an Engineering Technology degree. It's less theory and much more hands on. That's the type of job I want to get into. I need hands on tech style work. They still make good money and I believe I could get done sooner than three years with a lot less killing myself. I need to look into it more though. For all I know it'll take me longer to finish because I am a transfer student.

What if I was to just be an employee of a shop. Do they make good money? By good money I mean $25+ dollars an hour minimum. Can they actually advance beyond doing one thing and be more. My other issue is knowing myself, I can't do just one thing the rest of my life. I figure if I owned my own shop, I can do whatever I wanted. As it stands now, I have a machining degree, part of an enginering degree, a lot of experience, and just a lot of ambition and dreams to do something fulfilling with my life.

Thanks for listening and replying. All replies are welcome.

[CraigMBA]

I think I am crazy and maybe just pipe dreaming. I'm really thinking about leaving school again.

What are you in school for? You know, school is hard work sometimes. Not near as hard as having a business fail.


Problem is I can't do body work or modifications with metal.

Most guys who start shops are fab guys, unless you have a pocket full of money and are some sort of mad skills marketing guy with a team lined up I'd suggust you're already way behind.

Terminally behind IMO.



How do you get the money necessary to buy the equipment and everything else needed to start a shop?


Being rich or finding a rich partner won't hurt. Having some fab skills won't hurt either.




I have no money. I have started a parts business selling Corvette parts and LSx parts. It will launch soon. Maybe that will supply me with the needed money. However, I doubt it.


Businesses absorb working capital like sponges - profitable and growing or failing both. Outside of hitting the lotto.......how are you going to start a capital intensive parts business without any capital?


Or should I just stay in school and build what I can when I can in my spare time?

Bingo. Get a degree in something you find interesting that will allow you to have the income to play with cars as a hobby.

[MrQuick]

Trey,
If you are pretty savoy at what you are doing now, see what you would need to expand and work on the weaknesses.

You have an engineering degree, great. Now get a business and or a management degree. Keep broadening your skills.

I would look at other skills you may have to start an actual shop. You can't just open the doors and the work will pour in. People are very loyal and that loyalty takes awhile to build.

Also large projects and restoration builds don't make the money. The amount of labor and down time you barely break even. Small installations and minor upgrades is the bigger money maker. I'd look in to a few small gimmicks (not meant in a bad way) products and specialize in that. For example, brake and rim upgrades, performance add-ons, electrical add-ons. Do a few bigger jobs on the side but make the smaller stuff your strong point. Its easier and fast to complete jobs in that nature. Its up to you to find you niche.

Look into finding a small business to work with, like a brake bracket fabricator, suspension designer and grow together. Make a deal to become an installer. The time it takes to do a complete build you could have 30-50 smaller installs completed.

[bucks69]

Speaking from experience on this one.. I quit College after a year to take the world by storm.. 15 years later I am the oldest guy in the class...lol I would definetely finish school.. if nothing else it is something to fall back on if the dream shop doesnt work out. A degree will open doors (even if it is dusty from non-use). it is still a degree. It sucks working full time, 17 hours of College, and trying to work on the cars but it will certainly pay off no matter what you do. We (buying Public) will still be here after you get out of school. GET AN EDUCATION...

[paul67]

If you want to go into shop ,go with a green slant thats where the money is going to be ie bio fuels etc.

[High Plains Mopars]

I can tell you from first hand experience that going to school part time for years on end only to graduate when your 35 is not the funnest way of going about things. So I will also vote to finish school as soon as possible.

What type of engineering are you majoring in? Civil, structural, electrical, mechanical? Perhaps you would be better served by changing to a more mechanical discipline or changing schools to a business major. If you are going to get into more detailed fabriaction, a mechanical engineering degree is not a bad thing to have. You can be self taught in a great deal of theory and apply it to the specifics of automobile construction, but this means you may always be behind the guys who know the broader theories and logic behind them.

Heck for that matter maybe a change to a trade school to learn welding or body work would be a better use of your time and money. These are basic skills that are going to be required on any sort of custom work and nailing down the basics on these disciplines can goa long way towards not only providing an income but also gaining exposure to others in similar lines of work and making contacts that can be helpful in the future. Certified welders can easily make $20-35 an hour depending on your location. A good body man is only unemployeed if he chooses to be because there is so much work available. Same for mechanics.

Why is Speed Hound moving? Is this a reflection on the available business in the area? If so, that speaks loudly about your odds of success doing similar work. At first glance I'd say simply pick up where your current shop leaves off, but lacking a store front or lottery winnings, this will be difficult.

If your going to open your own shop you will need to know how to write up a business plan and address many of the potential issues as well as demonstrate how you have pertinent experience to be succesful. No bank is going to lend you money simply because you say you will work hard. This applies whether you want to open a storefront or build your parts business up large enough to actually make a living off it. Either will require a capital investment to get it to the scale that you can live off it. You will need to do some research on writing these plans and what you may need to include.

Which brings me to the next point. Opinions. You need them, and not just from here but within your community as well. From similar and disimillar businesses as well. Have them look at your plan, get their advice. Once source for this is SCORE, and not the offroad sanctioning body either, but the Service Core of Retired Executives. This is a volunteer group of execs who are retired and exist to review, suggest, and encourage entrepenuerial efforts.

Also don't kid yourself into thinking that running your own business mean you can do what ever you want whenever you want. Being a successfull business involves providing what the customers want at a margin that allows you to make a living doing it. This means reselling parts on the internet for a few hundred bucks a week isn't much of a living. If you want to make $2000 a week and you only make 15-20% on each sale, then you can figure out that you are going to need to move a lot of parts on stuff that people like Summit and Jegs are willing to sell for razor thin margins because they sell in volume. Margins of 50-75% are closer to what you need if you are dealing with specialized, one off custom, or short run objects.

Also don't discount working in similar, but different fields. Machine shops for precision, repair shops for mechanics, or even an overhead sign shop for sheetmetal and painting experience. There are a lot of related skill building endevours that don't need to specifically be about building cars.

Nothing wrong with dreaming. The difference between dreaming and achieving is solid planning, defined objectives, and time lines of achievement.

[WS6]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll try to answer all the questions.

I'm not trying to go big with the parts selling, just looking to support myself while in college. That requires very little profit as I have been living on very little for years. I never live beyond my means not even close. There is no reason for me to carry an inventory since I am not a store front. I will have inventory on the few parts I have custom made for us, but those are low volume and I can afford to have those made and stocked. If the sales go bigger than I am planning, I won't complain and I will deal with it as necessary. I also am dealing with companies that either know me personally or simply like me enough to give me a good deal on their parts. I also have worked closely with a number of them to help design parts for them. So either they have given me better buying ability in exchange for my help or they give me a better price than anyone else can get.

Speed Hound Performance is moving because Speed Hound Performance is a part time shop located at my bosses house. My boss is 95% sure he is being relocated only the papers need to be signed. I refuse to move closer to home, which is where he is headed. I actually could stay busy no problem with repair/restoration work right now. I choose not to because of school. The other big downside is that the shop is 50 minutes away. My customers come east out of ATL to me. I head west to the shop. I can't expect them to come even further east for me since I would really like to kill my commute. Some of them already travel 1.5-2 hours to see me, passing at least three other shops that "specialize" in Corvettes. I would like to do more than I do at Speed Hound if I was to open my own shop. We do not do body work or painting. That's something I would want to get into especially for the vettes. I am no artist for graphics but I love painting and am good at it, though rusty as hell by now I am sure. I also have this thing for second gens that I would push as well.

You're right about the big jobs Vince, they do take a long time. I would hope to do a mixture of both really. I can't expect every customer to want an updated frame utilizing C4/5 components. Though it would be nice. That's why we do a lot of restoration/repair work.

I am getting my mechanical engineering degree. Southern Poly Tech is my back up plan if I get tired of UGA. School being hard is not way I am looking for a change. I feel as if it's the wrong direction potentially. College is where you go to find out what you want to do with your life. You may find out a traditional college is not what you want to do.

I do have a restoration shop in the area that does great work I should go see. I talked with them back when I first got up here 8 years ago now. They restore everything though. My knowledge is GM with Corvettes being my main stay. I also slant heavily towards hot rodding. I piss purists off. I am by no means against building something other than GM. I love most cars and love to learn. I just do not know my way around the other cars.

Honestly, if I could simply manage to build one maybe two cars at a time part time, I would be happy. Problem is, I am afraid I may end up in a career that doesn't allow me to do something like that part time. Either because of time or simply because a job that would allow me to do that will not pay me enough to get started. I'd love to do what Steilow does, though I could not come close to his fab skill level any time soon.

My comment about doing whatever I want was pertaining to my actual task at the business. You'll never find me on a golf course during business hours rubbing elbows with anyone. Strip club on the other hand.... Just kidding. If I was the boss, I could move around inside the shop because I was the boss. Again, that goes back to my desire to not do one thing the rest of my life. I may not do everything, but I would like to be able to do everything.

Thanks

[WS6]

One thing I have thought about doing is some how getting the money, say 20k, to build my TA and then sell it after showing it for a little bit. I figured I could use that car to show my abilities. I'd also have to design some parts for it and I could turn around and sell those too. We will see how that idea goes. If this parts thing works out well enough as my source of income to live on, I should have enough time to build the TA and continue with school. I've got a one car garage here at home. The car would barely fit lol. Just thinking out loud.

[MrQuick]

You know if you could list as a Corvette specialist then you can open up a Delco backed store. They get the same technical support dealers do. There is one here in ther city and they do VERY well. They service and repair all years. Most of the guys there are ex-GM techs.

Also on parts, you can drop ship direct from the source so you don't have to stock anything.