How much of a problem are doors without window frames??

[aggressive male]

Not too sure if I should be posting this here or somewhere else but do those cars from the 70's and earlier that don't have frames around the windows on the doors have a lot of problems with the doors? If not does anyone know why all modern cars have doors with window frames?

[astroracer]

I don't know what kind of "problems" you are referring to with the frameless doors... I personally don't know of any maintenance issues with doors of this type. One issue they did have was wind noise at moderate speeds. This was caused by the windows being able to "open up", at the top, at higher speeds.
The frame around the windows helps reduce a lot of that high speed noise because the window can't flex off the gasket.
Mark

[aggressive male]

I don't know what kind of "problems" you are referring to with the frameless doors... I personally don't know of any maintenance issues with doors of this type. One issue they did have was wind noise at moderate speeds. This was caused by the windows being able to "open up", at the top, at higher speeds.
The frame around the windows helps reduce a lot of that high speed noise because the window can't flex off the gasket.
Mark

Yeah, now that you mention it my dads mustang is like that. What I was expecting to be a real problem is the windows flapping against the gasket in the roof on bumps. Or just being sloppy when you close the door. Particularly on a big 2 door. I thought the mustang didn't have a problem because it was small. I was also wondering about other problems that go with hardtops and pillarless sedans.

[Scatpack]

I've heard about the wind noise as well but another thing I've heard (although I can't picture how this would be the case) is that without a frame, the hinges are under more stress holding the door up, but with a frame, the frame helps hold up some of the weight. As a result, the bushings in the hinges wear out sooner and the doors drop down. ?????. I think the latch would hold it up when the door is closed and when the door is open, a frame wouldn't help at all. Just what I've heard.

[6'9"Witha69]

I've heard about the wind noise as well but another thing I've heard (although I can't picture how this would be the case) is that without a frame, the hinges are under more stress holding the door up, but with a frame, the frame helps hold up some of the weight. As a result, the bushings in the hinges wear out sooner and the doors drop down. ?????. I think the latch would hold it up when the door is closed and when the door is open, a frame wouldn't help at all. Just what I've heard.

Doesn't really make any sense, but I am not an engineer.

There are modern cars without window frames. Look at Mercedes. They solved the wind noise issue by using the window regulators to drop the window slightly when the door is being opened then put it all the way up into a sealed channel when fully closed. Of course, dealerships change the regulators as regularly as oil in some cases, but it is a nice idea.

Yes, coupes flex more than hardtops. The pillars do help absorb load and disperse it more evenly.

[aggressive male]

Wow this is interesting! You see what I want is a 59 eldo which I guess would have all those problems but what I have is a 77 coupe deville. Guess the 59 eldo is only good for looking pretty, not bumpy roads.

[aggressive male]

Oh yeah. I was also wondering what has happend when much more recent front wheel drive cars lose the drivetrain hump in the floor (about the only thing I like about front wheel drive). Are these cars less solid because they don't have humps?

[Chevelle LT1]

One thing to keep in mind with the frameless windows is that little a-holes can pry a window out and pop up the door lock knob to make for easy entry (has happened twice now)...

[6'9"Witha69]

One thing to keep in mind with the frameless windows is that little a-holes can pry a window out and pop up the door lock knob to make for easy entry (has happened twice now)...

Rattlesnakes make great consolation prizes for would-be thieves!

[aggressive male]

Thanks for the replies guys. Sounds like you've got to put your valuable stuff in the trunk Chevelle LT1.

[astroracer]

Oh yeah. I was also wondering what has happend when much more recent front wheel drive cars lose the drivetrain hump in the floor (about the only thing I like about front wheel drive). Are these cars less solid because they don't have humps?

No, simply put. The cars are engineered to work as they are designed. You have to understand the amount of engineering that goes into these cars, to make them work and work well, is massive. High strength steels, laminated steels and modern manufacturing techniques makes for some very strong, lightweight assemblies.
Take the "frameless" doors as an example. The window frame does not carry any of the door weight. It can't. The hinges, being the hard mounting points to the vehicle, carry all of the weight (including the window frame). The window frame may stiffen the door a bit but this is going to be negligible in most cases.
Mark

[nekkidhillbilly]

and converts still run frameless doors so i cant see an issue