79'TA suspension help?

[barch1968]

I am planning a rebuild and was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what they feel the best suspension set up would be to get the best handling for the car on the street. I have heard a lot about the Air Ride guys but not much actual feedback.

Any info. and opinions are appreciated...
barch

[79T/Aman]

what is your budget? air ride in my opinion is for street rods and show cars, yes someone will argue with me because they have it and sight some new cars that use it as well but the fact is that the air pressure change makes for an inconsistant setting and OEM system do suffer from this same problem only hi end computer controled system are truly a consideration in performance usage.

[astroracer]

Rebuild both suspensions. Replace all of the rubber parts with polygraphite and throw on some good shocks. Drop the car an inch in front and an 1 1/2 in back and put on a set of 17 or 18" rims with a high performance tire. You will be amazed at how well it will handle...
Mark

[PARKERRS]

If your wanting bang for the buck it's hard to beat the Hotchkis TVS for the street and limited autocross. Like Astroracer said couple this with a full rebuild either with polygraghite or if your budget permits del-a-lum bushings then go to 17-18 inch wheels with minimum 245 rubber in front and 275 or 285 in the rear and you will be very pleased.

[79T/Aman]

well I will contradict the poly statement polygraphite is no better if you cant't afford Del-a-lums use rubber especialy in the front leaf spring eye or if you are up to light work use solid steel bushings and a BEST bag for the buck in suspension kits is the Gen II set ups we offer.

[barch1968]

I am looking at about a $2000 budget. I really liked the Air Ride because it seemed an easy way to get rid of the leaf springs.

[NOT A TA]

2000 for suspension only? If so what wheel / tires will you be running?

John

[barch1968]

Honestly not sure as of yet...Looking for suggstions

[NOT A TA]

well when I did my Firebird it cost about 5 thou for suspension, wheels and tires. That was before the Tubular UCAs and LCAs were available. That was for the parts only and I did all of the work other than mounting/balancing the tires.
Hotchkis front /rear springs,sways. Moog and spicer ball joints , centerlink, tierods etc. Global West Del-A-Lums for the control arms. Hotchkis offset upper control arm shafts. Energy suspension poly body mounts. Bolt in SFCs. Bilsteins from Hotchkis to work with their springs. 17" TTII's with Yokohama AO 32's
Hotchkis now markets stuff packaged as a Total Vehicle System

John

[barch1968]

Sounds like I may have to increase my budget. I really would like to get rid of the leafs...Any advise on the truck arm set up or a budget four link?

[PARKERRS]

If you want to dump the leaves then your budget will have to increase substantially to cover that AND doing the front end. Just the ball joints, tie rod ends (inner & outer), control arm bushings, center link and idler arm will run around $480 for good components such as Moog. Del-a-lums will set you back another couple of hundred. Then you still need springs for the front. It would also be very wise to replace the sub-frame bushings at the same time as they are most definetly shot and allowing the car to wallow if they have never been done. You will also need good shocks, on the low end your talking $130-$150 just for the front ( Edelbrock, Bilstien, etc.). That alone shoots close to half of your 2K budget just in the front and you still have no rear parts or wheels and tires.Most of the leaf and shackle kits are around $150 give or take, then you need to look at sway bars which range from just under $200 to near $300. This is with you providing all the labor and not including a good alignment when done.
I'm not trying to discourage you just give some info to help you layout a budget. Everything doesn't have to be done all at once, you could break it down to help better afford it, front end rebuild, then rear, then bars, then finally wheels and tires.

[79T/Aman]

you can make a car handle very well with leaf springs, trying to change to something different you will blow your budget in a hurry even adding 50% to that, a 79 T/A already hase the big sway bars and after neerly 30 years you will need a whole new set of springs and shocks and hardware any way.

[Marcus SC&C]

You don`t have to get rid of the leafs to make a 2nd gen handle but if you really want to get rid of them (which is fine too!) the best link rear suspension option is the Chassisworks G-Bar. We`ve sold a bunch of them for 2nd Gens and feedback has been great. It`s a 90% bolt in system and includes Alston Varishock 16 way adj. aluminum coilovers. You can pick up the G-Bar and have $400 left from your $2000 budget for the front end. That would get you some OE rubber bushings and a matching set of adj. front Varishocks. If you can stretch the budget a bit put a good set of performance springs up front that`ll drop the ride height 1"-2" (Hotchkis,GW etc.) and a set of upper A arms that will allow a better performance alignment with more - camber and + caster. That really brings these cars alive. Naturally I`d suggest our adj. arms as the best bang for the buck. If you want to take it even one step further you can upgrade the arms to a Stage 1 package with tall upper ball joints. This basically duplicates the geometry of the mods recomended by GM for TransAm racing the 2nd Gens. It`s not necessary by any means but then how much of what we car guys do is "necessary"? :yeah:
You asked about suspension so I hit that first but almost as important on 2nd gens is chassis stiffening. Subframe connectors are #1 on the list,solid subframe bushings and an underhood bracing kit from some place like PT F body are great ideas too! The more rigid the chassis the better the suspension can do it`s job. Marcus SC&C

[formula]

I was going to suggest g-bar, as well...I'm running an airbar and would like to offer a counterpoint on what's been voiced so far on the system.

I have the ridepro-e2 control system, which has 3 different presets built into it. When a preset is activated, all four bags are independently inflated to their set tire pressures, within approximately 2 psi. The system is far from inconsistent--I just set it, activate the auto-ride height, turn the key and poof, it's exactly like I left it. None of the consistency of a traditional coil is lost if you use a modern control system.

On top of that, the system offers a much higher level of on-the-fly adjustability than a traditional coilover. Want to change the spring rate on your coils? Alright, buy another set, pull it apart, swap the coil, put it back together, and you're good to go. Not hard, not hard at all. Want to change the spring rate on your bags? Click. Done. And again, you have 3 presets to work with, so it's not like you have to spend an hour searching for the right air pressure every time-- just set each preset, then switch between the three on the fly. And if you decide you're just a smidge high on spring rate on the right rear? Click, and you're perfect. You cannot beat that with a traditional spring, no matter how fast you are. As far as shock adjustments are concerned, they're no different than standard shocks--just duck under the tire for a second and poof, you're done.

Yes, if you are running a system that shares air pressure between multiple bags, you can get a lot of pressure-bleed between bags and a sloppy, wallowy ride. As long as each bag is on its own independent line, the compression of the bag produces an increase in air pressure just like the compression of a spring alters the spring rate. It's just a different kind of spring, one that uses the gas properties of air instead of the ductile properties of metal.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is, don't knock it 'till you've tried it. If I read off my suspension specs to anyone on this board-- tubular lca's and uca's, triangulated four link, delalum bushings, solid body mounts, global west sfc's, alston g-braces, wfotech fender braces, 1 3/4" swaybar, alston varishocks, moog steering links, flaming river 14:1 box, and coil-overs at all four corners-- nobody'd so much as blink an eye over whether my car could hustle through a turn well. As soon as I mention that those coil-overs use air instead of metal, people immediately presume it's a tank. Heck, I did the same thing before I rode in air ride's second gen, so I understand it. Just give it a chance before you pass judgement.

[68Formula]

formula, can you make it bounce? :poke:

[79T/Aman]

well as mentioned if it is computer controled as your is air rides works but for the budget that barch1968 has there are other options that work very well.

[formula]

well as mentioned if it is computer controled as your is air rides works but for the budget that barch1968 has there are other options that work very well.

Damn true. I hope you didn't feel like i was taking potshots at you--just wanted to present a perspective from the other side of the fence.

[79T/Aman]

hey no problem, but not every air ride type system is created equal and picking the right one is key but many fail to realize the cost of good systems.

[barch1968]

I really appreciate everyone's input on this subject. You have all ben very helpful. It seems that there are many trains of thought when it comes to suspension. I guess regardless of budget what is the best system on the market today that will allow me to drive it on or off the track?

barch

[formula]

like you said, many different trains of thought...which equates to many different definitions of "best"...

[WS6]

Damn it Formula. Every time you talk about you about your air ride it makes me want to look into it more. I just have a really hard time getting over the air tank part. The trunk is damn small as it is and I have T tops. The car does look so badass sitting without the air in the bags though.

[formula]

hahaha, sorry? It's not for everyone, no doubt...

Have you seen how I mounted my tank? It does eat up a big chunk of the trunk space, no doubt...but that part of the trunk is less than ideal, IMO. I still have room for enough bags for a weekend trip for me and the girlfriend, but not much else...

All covered up:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/08/CIMG4431-1.jpg

Crappy shot of the tank, valves, and my amp:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/08/18617c99-1.jpg

Compressors:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/08/f1aa5f9e-1.jpg

Then the other side will be my battery once I have time to relocate it. If I had t-tops, I'd be tempted to build a rack for them that concealed the whole tank and had a slot to slide the tops in over the tank...