Questions on a LQ4 or LQ9 build

[josht]

Well I have decided on a LQ4 or LQ9 build. I know that they are a gen III Ls iron block but they should be cost effective option.

I am looking at Item 32014157300
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBOFF%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320148157300&rd=1

I am waiting back for a price with the harness and ecu/cpu.

this is going into a 68 GTO / GM A-body
At a mimimum I need:
cts-v or ats oil pan
new intake a L92, reuse TB, injectors, rails?
different ac? or ps bracket? I need help here

The game plan is to install the following parts:
cts-v or ats oil pan
GM Performance hydraulic roller lifter set part # 88958689 from SDPC
new cylinder head ceramic gaskets {GM MLS head gaskets 4.080” x .060” thick}
LS1? ported oil pump which one?
ARP head bolt set, does any one have the part #?
Livernois Motorsports L92 Camshaft (Stage 3 )
Livernois Motorsports CNC Ported Stage 3 L92 Cylinder Heads
L92 Intake, reuse TB, injectors, rails?
send the harness off to speartech to make it stand alone
have the ecu/cpu edited with eftlive?

my questions are:
The L92 intake is a 4 bolt deal? so any LS2 TB will bolt on? like a NW or Fast TB? can I reuse the original TB since the L92 intake is going to be the limiting factor anyway?

Will the factory fuel rails be ok, or do I need to replace them with ones from fast or professional products?

Will I need spacers to reuse the original fuel injectors with the L92 intake?

Which brackets do I need to replace?
can I use Gm parts direct # 19155067 gen IV with ac or
Gm parts direct # 19155066 gen III with ac

I am sure I missed something so please let me know...

TIA

[93Polo]

The LQ4/LQ9 TB will not work as it is smaller.

The NW and Holley TB will work:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572416&page=1&pp=20

You could also run a 4 barrel style intake without modifying the wiring much.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=765773

[josht]

Ok if I need to use a 4 bolt NW / Fast or holly unit then I would go with the complete setup but I have questions on that.

I can buy ::
Intake Manifold, L76 / L92 Car, Bare Manifold part # 12590124 / $252.13

Can I reuse the original truck fuel rails & injectors? Would I still need new bolts and gaskets as I can not reuse them, is this correct?

I can use LS2 fuel rails but I would need to use the Katek kit? or is it that I only need to use the Katek kit with LS1 injectors with a LS2 intake.

Will I need spacers to reuse the original fuel injectors with the L92 intake?

or

Intake Manifold, L76 / L92 Car, Complete Assembly # 12590123 / $528.95

manifold, injector rail, injector assembly, 90mm throttle body, intake bolts, intake gaskets, map sensor,...L76 style intake

if I go this route which injectors and fuel rails should I use?

I am confused as the LQ4 & LQ9 is Gen III setup and the L92 is standard on Gen IV engines. Since I am using the LQ4 factory harness I would only have to worry about using the Katek fuel injector adaptors if I use the L92 injectors?:confused:

TIA

[josht]

Stock Information:
4.000" bore
3.622 stroke
6.096" rod length {is this correct??}

LQ4 compression 9.4
LQ9 compression 10.0
both have 72cc heads

The plan is to build the engine for a turbo setup now and add it in year or two. This is going into a 5 mile 2005 LQ4 engine.
Please move the post to the right section...

I want to use the stock crank if possible. I did not find connecting rods with 6.096" length, most were 6.125" Does using the longer rod length mean I use a thicker gasket? The connecting rods are 6.125, I would assume that the pistons have to match? Does using longer 6.125 connecting rods mean I am building a stroker or is no since the crank is still stock?

so what are my options for building a LQ4 with forged internals?
I was looking into Diamond LS1 Dish Pistons or Diamond LS1 Flat Top Pistons with Scat H-Beam LS1 Connecting Rods.
I am confused with the rod lengths..........

which size gasket do a use? Is it head dependent, if I use the stock 317 heads or use L92 6.2L heads?

What about the heads and intake, I was planning on going with a L92 setup but a LS6 intake with 317 heads and new valves, springs and ??? in the heads might be better for FI setup?

Does the 2005 LQ4 have equal length head studs?

Build parts:
Dura-Bond Coated High Performance LS1 Cam Bearing Set, 2004-up
Part # CHP-23T Retail Price: $98.95

are there better piston rings to use?
1.5, 1.5, 3mm Low Tension File Fit Xtreme Piston Rings
Part # ACX105985 Retail Price: $116.95


I think that H beams are stronger than I beams or did I get it backward?
6.125" H Beam LS1 / LS2 / LS6 Scat Connecting Rods
Part # 6612521 Retail Price: $449.95
icludes Premium ARP 3/8" cap screws

wrong rod length ???
LS1 Dish Pistons - 4.000 Bore, 3.622 Stroke, 6.098 Rod
Part # DIA11514 Retail Price: $634.95

or I need to use these:
LS1 Dish Pistons - 4.000 Bore, 3.622 Stroke, 6.125 Rod
Part # DIA11516 Retail Price: $634.95

which is better for a turbo setup Dish or Flat top pistons?


I don't know if this kit comes with the rods??
LS1 Warrior Piston Kit Part # WPKLS11 Retail Price: $869.95
3.622 Stroke, 6.098 Rod length, LS1 Warrior Piston Kit
·JE forged Flat Top Pistons
·JE File-Fit Plasma Moly Rings 1.5, 1.5, 3.0mm
·Cometic MLS Race Head Gaskets
·Clevite 77 P or H Series Bearings



TIA

[josht]

help please on getting the LQ4 combo right please

thanks

[WS6]

I'd love to help Josh but I don't know the specs you need. I can modify a Gen3/4 but I am no Gen3/4 engine builder. Have you tried LS1tech.com for info? I bet you can find a build that someone else did and detailed that could fit your needs. Just remember that you don't need to get exotic with these motors for them to be awesome.

[josht]

I have posted over on LS1tech in the gen III internal section.

I am trying to find a similar build, the car craft with the L92 stuff is ok but I plan on doing a single or twin turbo down the line once I reclass.

I want to do it right the first time. I could go out and buy a LS6 intake with 4 bolt TB and be done. I have to convert from DBW to cable I think. Latter on I would then have to replace all the bolts and upgrade the internals as I dont think the connecting rods will last with a turbo set up. The crank is suppossedly good up to 1k HP, the pistons are dished or domed? as their LQ4.

I was thinking of leaving the 317 heads alone. I don't want to do a hardware upgrade with out porting them, so that gets into $1200 - $2k for new ported LS1\LS6 heads.

I was going to use all L92 stuff but can not find a lot of turbo builds.

I could use LS2 stuff but then I have to deal with adapters and spacers, which is why I am reconsidering the L92 stuff.

I think I know just enoughf to get myself into trouble with all the options I have available.

I am going to call SDPC when I get paid again to price out ARP bolts.

[WS6]

You can put a turbo on a bone stock engine and produce very good power. How much boost or power are you hoping for? The LS6 intake uses a three bolt throttle body. You can use a drive by wire or cable unit. Which ever is easiest. I'd personally go with cable. If you have 317 heads, just use them as is. Spend the money on a turbo before porting those heads. They are very good as is and stuffing boost into them will still be ok. Upgrading your bottom end with just ARP bolts is a good way to ensure everything holds together. You can make 500+ rwhp on a stock engine. Are you wanting more than this?

[josht]

500rwhp would be nice. I have a 4L80e that needs a to have a performace kit and other stuff done to it. I have to send that out as I am not going to get into a transmission. I have a new 12 bolt rear with 33 spines and a 3.70 ratio. I don't know how much horsepower will be lost sending with my drivetrain setup.

so don't bother porting the heads. I was thinking about upgrading to dual springs or the yellow LS6 springs with GM "caddy" lifters.

Not sure what needs to be/should be done with the lifters, springs, rockers...

I

I know I need to change the cam, but have no clue. I am going to wait until I have the hardware selected then go from there.

I did not realize the LS6 intake used a 3 bolt TB.
So most LS2 intakes and TB 4 bolts?
I have been told that the Performance product 96mm cable TB is 3 bolt, not sure on the quality.
I know the L92 intake and TB is 4 bolt.

I was trying to avoid buying the spacers required for the LS1 injectors when using a LS2 or L92 intake. I might have to buy new fuel rails also.


This requires more research, I have to figure out which is cheaper a LS6 intake or if I can use a LS2 intake and TB from Performance Products on a LS1 Gen III engine.

[WS6]

I think you definitely need to move slower. You've jumped over the basics to get into the heavy stuff that honestly sounds like you can avoid for the most part. These engine bone stock are capable of a great deal of power. Check out what people are doing with stock engines by simply swapping heads and cams or going with a power adder. You may be surprised and find a much easier combination to build. The less modified an engine is, typically the less issues you will have with it.

Go spend some time reading on LS1tech so you can get the basics down. Do not get caught up in the newest fanciest way to modify the engine. Stay with the tried and true methods for now.

All LS2 intakes and TBs are 4 bolt. LS6 intakes actually work better than the LS2. Testing shows this. Just go look at the people who went through the trouble to get an LS2 intake onto their LS1/6 engines only to make less power. LS2 engines use LS6 243 cast heads. LS6 heads work very well stock. You can always send them out later for porting. I was just thinking if you're planning a turbo, do it first because you'll get better results from it versus buying ported heads. Stock lifters from an LS1/6 will work fine. No need to hunt down specific lifters. Stock rocker arms are good as well. Factory push rods and springs suck. Change them out for sure. Comp 928 springs are great for mild cams. You'll want a dual spring for an aggressive cam.