The definitive Air Bar / G Bar Mini Tub Thread!

[ProdigyCustoms]

There has been much talk lately about Air Bar / G Bar combined with Mini Tubs with big tires. For those that do not know, the Chris Alston G bar is a Air Ride Air Bar but with Vari Shock Coil overs instead of Shockwaves. So what works with a Air bar will work with a G Bar. I belive this is the best 4 link system out there, and certainly the easiest to install, with the least fabrication, I want to put any misconceptions or confusions to rest.

There has been a lot of talk and confusion about weather these systems will fit a Mini Tub application? Weather these systems will clear our beloved 335 and 345 tires? Weather custom arms or fabrication are necessary?

So Air Ride sent us a Air Bar set up for Lisa's project EmptyNest, which is a minitub car running the biggest performance radials you can buy, 345 / 30 / 19 tires, on a 12" rim with a 6" backspace. We sell a lot of Air bar / G Bars, so we and the Air Ride crew wanted a end all, yes it will, no it won't, determination on what does and does not fit.

I am just getting started and attached a few pics, but the initial preliminary answer is a Yes, you can run a Air Bar / G Bar with a mini tub and 345 tires. I will continue in a installation type format over the next few days, but here is what I have so far.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
We are using the tires and wheels from Michael's Project Prodigy for mock up purposes until our custom Forgeline's get here. Michael's tires are 345 / 25 / 20 on 12" rims with a 7" backspace, you can see there is plenty of clearance. These tires have a 13.6 section width, within a 1'4" or so of 345 / 30 / 19s and 335 / 30 / 18s which are so popular.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Another angle shows a little better the amount of clearance. We intentionally for these photos have no yet installed the trunk floor,

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
You can see with a 7" backspace wheel it is 7 /2 inches to the closest axle bracket bolt. Michael's Prodigy uses this 7" backspace because of the Corvette rear. Most Mini tub cars use a 6" backspace. If this was the typical 6" backspace, it would be 6 1/2" to this first mount, which should leave plenty of clearance for even popular Big Ford Ends. I can only see a problem if someone tries run a real short backspace like 5" or less, which would put the rear mounting bracket on top of the Ford Bearing end.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
There is 2 inches clearance between the outside bar and the inner most section of the tire. So there is plenty of clearance for even more tire, but the mini tubs are going to limit more tire.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

co-signed.

[ertoys]

Interesting. I havent heard a lot (any) real feedback on these systems so I actually forgot about them.

Please follow through with some feedback for handling/ride.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, performance wise I can tell you I have the answers. They are fricken awesome. Have allready verified this many times.

[Marcus SC&C]

Nice work Frank. As they say a picture`s worth a thousand words. Hey,that`s four thousand words worth! :) I was sure 315 would fit but it`s good to know a 345 will too!

Ertoys, our feedback on the G Bar has been really good as well. You pretty much never see a 4 link suspension package this easy to install and this affordable that works anywhere near this well. It`s clear they really did their homework on the G Bar. Mark SC&C

[MarkM66]

I thought you were going to give us a weather report, ;) .

[JMarsa]

:postpics:

Oh yeah, got those, how about the type of car?

--JMarsa

[ProdigyCustoms]

I am sorry, Project EmptyNest is a 69 Firebird Convertible. Same as 67 - 69 Camaor and Firebird for these purposes

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[JMarsa]

:kewlpics:

It's about time Firebirds got some love. :smoke:

--JMarsa

[68BNUT]

Would anybody happen to have the G-bar install instructions online that I could mull over? Also I cant find any site for the G-bar?

Thanks.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I will scan and post instructions tomorrow

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

oh yea, what length rear are you running, frank?

[ProdigyCustoms]

54 5/8" rear, 6" backspace

[darren@ridetech]

Here are the AirBar Instructions.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

damn Frank........ you really do "work" :)

[Kenova]

Well, you have my attention! Are there enough similarities between the F-body and X-body Air/G bar setups that Frank's findings can be applied to "someone's" Nova?

Ken

[GeoffP]

I am definitely going to be watching this thread. I have looked at the Air Bar/G-Bar for quite some time. It's nice to see someone as respected as Prodigy Customs doing this (showing pictures as the install progresses and throwing in comments).

[Flash68]

54 5/8" rear, 6" backspace

Frank, where are you measuring from to get this rear end width?

thanks

[ProdigyCustoms]

With the wheels mocked up inside the wheelwells, and squared (tow set), you will measure between the mounting hubs of each wheel. You will be very close to this measurement.

[Flash68]

With the wheels mocked up inside the wheelwells, and squared (tow set), you will measure between the mounting hubs of each wheel. You will be very close to this measurement.

Perfect, thanks so much for your help.

[GHOSTDANCER]

:hand: So are the spring mounts on the axle housing in there stock location or have they been moved in ?

[ProdigyCustoms]

The spring mounts will be in the stock location

[Flash68]

With the wheels mocked up inside the wheelwells, and squared (tow set), you will measure between the mounting hubs of each wheel. You will be very close to this measurement.

Frank, can you tell me how wide your housing is?

thanks

[ProdigyCustoms]

No, it is not here yet, but somewhere very close to 49" to 50"

[ProdigyCustoms]

Also, In the next couple weeks we should have a 12 bolt rear avialable to purchase with all the upper and lower link brackets welded in place making the Air / G bars true bolt in applications. We will have 12 bolt rear housings only to complete rears. We hope to be able take orders soon.

How cool would it be if you could order a nice powder coated ready to go rear, the width you want, with the upgrades you need!

[justanova]

Also, In the next couple weeks we should have a 12 bolt rear avialable to purchase with all the upper and lower link brackets welded in place making the Air / G bars true bolt in applications. We will have 12 bolt rear housings only to complete rears. We hope to be able take orders soon.

How cool would it be if you could order a nice powder coated ready to go rear, the width you want, with the upgrades you need!

that would be sweet, what about doing the same with a 9"

[ProdigyCustoms]

We will do a 9" also, but after the 12 bolt. Were doing the 12 bolt first because we are selling 10 12 bolts for every one 9" now that we have the improved strength housings and 33 spline Tru Track and Eaton differentials. Couple all that with the fact the 12 bolt is more efficient (absorbs less power) and the fact a lot of these cars are Camaro's and the owners want to keep them all GM, explains why we sell so many 12 bolts.

Also, since I have 2 cars (Lisa's Project EmptyNest and Vegas69's car) both getting 33 spine 12 bolts, you can see were the R and D is going, LOL!

[68BNUT]

Also, In the next couple weeks we should have a 12 bolt rear avialable to purchase with all the upper and lower link brackets welded in place making the Air / G bars true bolt in applications. We will have 12 bolt rear housings only to complete rears. We hope to be able take orders soon.

How cool would it be if you could order a nice powder coated ready to go rear, the width you want, with the upgrades you need!

Any Idea what the cost is going to be for the complete 12 bolts? Im looking to buy the G bar here in the next couple weeks and if there was a complete 12 bolt I could bolt in at the same time that would be GREAT!!!

[ProdigyCustoms]

I have a killer package deal, Call me

four zero seven 832 1752

[Mike Hall]

Frank, I cant wait to see more pictures of the install.

Mike

[ProdigyCustoms]

We are going to paint in a week or so, they do the install with the new rear. We cant wait either!

[darren@ridetech]

Any updates Frank?

[ProdigyCustoms]

The rear got here one hour ago. We will paint it and get it in the car Thursday.

[ss dave]

Oh yea!

[Munster]

Frank

I just ordered a Air bar from you guys at GP store and am also interested in the 12 bolt narrowed rear end. Details and pricing. Don't want to tie up your business phone for questions but if you see this can you pm me the info.

Waiting patiently to see your install pics also. Thanks for sharing this stuff. Helps out a lot. :headbang:

[rob07002]

Frank

I just ordered a Air bar from you guys at GP store and am also interested in the 12 bolt narrowed rear end. Details and pricing. Don't want to tie up your business phone for questions but if you see this can you pm me the info.

Waiting patiently to see your install pics also. Thanks for sharing this stuff. Helps out a lot. :headbang:

Here are some pics of mine installed. https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35306

Courtesy of Frank as well. Thanks buddy!

[ProdigyCustoms]

OK, here is version one of the Moser bolt in Air Bar / G bar rear. It is called version one because we have to tweak the jig a bit on the upper link mounts. If you look close you will see the upper links are a bit to tall, layed back a bit to much, and are interfering with the shock crossmember. Moser is on it and will have me Version test rear next week. Once that is in, we can start to deliver them. It is a minor tweak, and we are taking orders now.

Now the BIG News. This is Lisa's Project EmptyNest, and those are some of the biggest tires that will fit mini tubs, 345/23/20s off Michael's Project Prodigy for mock up purposes until here 345/30/19s get here next week. THERE IS NO LOWER LINK INTERFERENCE WITH THE MINI TUB AND THESE HUGE TIRES. And this is a extra narrow rear at only 54" for a HUGE lip front on the wheel. So if these do not interfere, no tire will that will fit inside a mini tub would interfere.

I will get some more detailed pics when I get the real rear in the car, but for now, this ends the question of mini tub interference.

And yes I know the calipers are upside down. nothing is tight here, and this is just a quick test fit.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Gandalf]

Now the BIG News. This is Lisa's Project EmptyNest, and those are some of the biggest tires that will fit mini tubs, 345/23/20s off Michael's Project Prodigy for mock up purposes until here 345/30/19s get here next week. THERE IS NO LOWER LINK INTERFERENCE WITH THE MINI TUB AND THESE HUGE TIRES.

Thanks for sharing this Frank. Any chance we can see a side-profile shot? I know you probably don't want to give the entire game away before SEMA but I'm interested to see how low it is now and how much lower it can go in the rear without interference. I may have to put my order in for one of those rears to mount my G-Bar also. Lookin good guys!

G.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Low enough? That is with the bar bottom out on the incorrect upper links. It will go a bit lower when we correct the upper mounts but soon it will bottom in the wheel well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Moose]

:drool:

I think I'll be ordering a 12 bolt.. That looks flipping sweet..

[Munster]

The Moser rear for the air bar-- lower link mounts, these are the same specs dimensions as the stock leaf spring pad? Can't really see them on the axle behind the Shockwaves. Build up of Emptynest looks great too.

[Denvervet]

Frank,
Have you guys figured out how/if one can snake 3" tail pipes through this bar setup? Also, PM me if you can with the prices for this 12 bolt and g bar setup.

[rob07002]

Frank that subframe sure looks purdy! :poke:

[Moose]

how much room between the tire and the rear frame? it looks close..

[ProdigyCustoms]

how much room between the tire and the rear frame? it looks close..

1/2"on either side. A little snug, but one of the nice things about a triangle 4 bar is how well it limits side movement. I suspect if we are diggin hard in a corner, and hit a big bump, she'll rub! But if your not rubin, you don't have enough tire or are not driving hard enough!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank,
Have you guys figured out how/if one can snake 3" tail pipes through this bar setup? Also, PM me if you can with the prices for this 12 bolt and g bar setup.

Pricing is no secret. just not finished with pricing yet. Tomorrow I hope to have a final price, then they will accept my orders.

[rich-allen]

Hey Frank, do you have to run those body cut outs for the exhaust?
This seems to be another small hurdle when using the G Bar.

I've heard of people just turning down the exhaust before the rear end and that's not cool.

Any help would be appreciated.


Rich

[hotrdblder]

Hey Frank, do you have to run those body cut outs for the exhaust?
This seems to be another small hurdle when using the G Bar.

I've heard of people just turning down the exhaust before the rear end and that's not cool.

Any help would be appreciated.


Rich
rich, no you do not, you just need to move the exhaust around so it comes back and arond the air bags.
check out vinz68 camaro progress thread on lat g

[Gandalf]

Low enough? That is with the bar bottom out on the incorrect upper links. It will go a bit lower when we correct the upper mounts but soon it will bottom in the wheel well.

Awesome Frank - thanks for the pic. Maybe one of those 12bolts in my future..... Let us know when you have some pricing. Now for some closeups of that subframe :naughty:.

G.

[dhutton]

post deleted

[rich-allen]

Thanks guys,

Rich

[Rantheman]

that deffinetly looks sweet

[Posi12Bolt]

seems like a pretty straight forward installation! might have to put one in the '67

[TBART70]

post deleted

doh!

[GeoffP]

Page 5 of the Air Bar installation instructions says that Stainless Works has a tail pipe that will work specifically with the Air Bar (and I assume the G-Bar).

Hth

[Simbad68]

Frank, will the new G-Bar work with the air ride system as well? Seems like there wouldn't be any issues.

[newbaa]

what would be the equivalent of the air/g -bar for a '70 Chevelle? i see there are quite a few applications for several cars, but not for a Chevelle. I want to use an air-ride system for my chevelle, so i don't know if i should just use the "street challenge" system by Air Ride, or if there is some type of air-bar that i could "piece" together with the front suspension?

[darren@ridetech]

I have a 70 Chevelle as well.
The rear of those cars already has a 4 link, so we just replace the factory arms with the upper and lower StrongArms and put an air spring in place of the coil spring. We also offer single adjustable and double adjustable shocks for that car.

Up front use the Shockwaves with the upper and lower StrongArms. I would replace the factory spindle with a taller one as well, that with increase the camber gain. Top it off with the front and rear MuscleBar sway bars and you will have one fine handling machine. Here is a link to those products.
http://www.ridetech.com/wizard/results.asp?year=1970&make=Chevrolet&model=Chevelle

[newbaa]

thanks for the help!

[KHShapiro]

any updates?

[streetrod77]

okay, I'm not knowledgable of chevys so bare with me please. Frank's car has 2 blue bars that go from one framerail to the other one. One bar the top of the air shocks hooks to. What is the other bar for?

[hotrdblder]

nothing to do with being a chevy, it has to do with the triangulated 4 link susp, its the mount for the upper links

[streetrod77]

okay, Thanks I was lost on that one.

[ProdigyCustoms]

That is the upper bolt in crossmember

Here is a another shot of that crossmember. We welded it in EmptyNest.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Another shot before it is painted pretty
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Here is a picture of Lisa posing with the crossmember
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[streetrod77]

Thanks Frank. I needed a better pic.

[67camaro*z]

Can the G-Bar system withstand repeated launches on slicks? Say, 450-550 RWHP. This is for a street/weekend warrior machine. The only reason I ask is because of the long/narrow lower control arms. Thanks!

[ProdigyCustoms]

I cannot see why it would not handle it, but I cannot say I have experiance with this yet. Traingle 4 links notriously work good at the dragstrip, I see no reason to belive these would not.

I will let you know in the spring time. We will launch EmptyNest a few time

[1969CamaroRS]

So it looks like with the G-Bar do you don't need DSE's Rear upper shock crossmember?

Also is getting 3" exhaust past the G-Bar an issue?

[hotrdblder]

no you do not need the upper shock crossmember from dse to use g-bar.
yes 3 inch exhaust can go around it, its tight but can be done

[ProdigyCustoms]

Yeah, the exhaust fits the G Bar easier then the Air bar do to the size of the shock bag VS the coil spring. Nothing the tank makes life MUCH nicer for sure, but a good exhaust shop can do it without