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ErikSOCAL
08-03-2007, 03:34 PM
Getting ready to order the rest of my stuff to complete my fuel system. Running a SBC with edelbrock pro flo, ricks tank with in tank walbro 255pump. I'm going to run teflon lines for the supply and have been looking at in line fuel filters between the tank and engine. So far all I've come across are whats in summit, a variety of russell or earls with 40 micron filters. Anyone have input if these are decent filters or recommendations for something better? I found one post on here that recommends to just use a stock style one but I'm not sure how many microns those filter down to.
Right now my system will see about 50-51 psi for fuel pressure and use 3/8 line.
Anyone have a recommendation as far as what materials to use for fuel lines? I'm planning to run all teflon lines. I figure the hardline I would've used would only be along the frame rails so if I just stuck to teflon the lines would follow the factory routing anyways and have at least 2 less interruptions than a hardline + teflon line set up.

Steve1968LS2
08-03-2007, 04:32 PM
Aeromotive makes some nice ones.. 10 micron and 100 micron. I was running a hundred micron pre-filter and a 10 micron after the pump.

Hammered
08-03-2007, 06:25 PM
Everything that I read suggested a setup like Steve's or a good intank pump sock and 10 micron filter. I'm running an Aeromotive 10 micron. I believe they are sold under other names too.

ErikSOCAL
08-04-2007, 05:59 AM
thanks guys, I'll check aeromotive.
do either of you have any recommendations on what to do with the fuel lines. John, I've looked through your website and actually have it saved as a favorite - very cool. Were did you mount the filter? It looks like you have hardline connected right to the engine.

GetMore
08-04-2007, 03:22 PM
I'm interested in the answers as well. Though I may scavenge some OEM part numbers, just in case.

DeltaT
08-04-2007, 04:33 PM
I have the same Aeromotive setup as Steve's, both -10. The idea is a screen filter before the pump for the big stuff (that could hurt the pump), and an accordian paper element after for the super-fine stuff that could clog the injectors. I've check the pre-filter a few times in 6K miles of operation, and found some debris. The post-filter element still looks new. Maybe I'll throw a new one in every couple years.

Jim

Hammered
08-04-2007, 07:08 PM
Erik,

Thanks for compliment on the website.

I mounted the filter to the mechanical fuel pump block off plate and ran stainless lines most everywhere. The SS lines were a big PITA because I went with 1/2" and 3/8" return. 3/8 supply and return would be much easier. I used braided SS hose at all the flex points.

ErikSOCAL
08-05-2007, 05:41 AM
thanks guys, I'm going shopping then at summit! Decided on the teflon lines with an aeromotive in-line fuel filter (thats a pricey bugger but nice!). Its time for this car to leave the garage under its own power!!

ErikSOCAL
08-12-2007, 10:01 AM
just a bit of info for anyone shopping around for a 10 micron filter. Discovered that jegs has their own brand for $70 while the aeromotive costs $82. The aeromotive, while in the pictures looked like it came with fittings in the end, doesn't come with them and the jegs has them built in in either -10an or -8an.
I need to return a few parts anyways so I'm going to order the jegs first and see how they look side-by-side.
The billet mount is also cheaper, $33 vs $77 although I may be able to use a large cushion clamp of some sort.
jegs pn 555-15000 for the -8an.
This is exactly why I like paper catalogs.

68 SuperRam
08-13-2007, 09:45 AM
Have the same kind of setup - 100 micron and 10 mircon - think I like about my 100 micron is - that it has an internal shut off ball value - was about the same price as the Aeromotive piece - fittings were attached. Ball shut off was nice - to shut off the tank to do work - and can always be used as a quick shut so that the car can not run.

andrewb70
08-13-2007, 02:40 PM
The more I know about aftermarket parts the more I like OEM stuff. Use a filter for a late 80s TPI Corvette. It is a 3/8 inlet and outlet. Earl's and other companies make adapters to go from the Saginaw o-ring fittings to -6 AN.

Here is a Wix for about 10 bucks:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It may not be all polished and sexy and all that, but I bet my life on the fact that your injectors will thank you.

Andrew

red67camaro
08-13-2007, 08:15 PM
I agree with Andrew. With a pair of AN adapters, this is the way I went in addition to a factory style filter sock mounted to the pump inlet in the tank. There are only a couple bazillion fuel injected GM vehicles running around just fine with this exact setup.

The filters are cheap and easily had at any parts outlet. The Wix number is 33481.

ProBell
08-14-2007, 03:00 AM
I to run the 100 and 10 micron setup. My problem is the 10 micron filter needs to be changed every 1000 to 1500 miles. I can tell when it need changing by the fuel presser and the sound of the pump. Is any one else having this problem?
I would also like to know how many microns a stock filter is.
Thanks Randy

andrewb70
08-14-2007, 09:47 AM
I would rather have a clogged filter rather than clogged injectors.

As for the stock filter I have no clue what the rating is. However I suspect its the proper rating for GM vehicles using a high pressure fuel system and Delphi or Bosch injectors.

Andrew


I to run the 100 and 10 micron setup. My problem is the 10 micron filter needs to be changed every 1000 to 1500 miles. I can tell when it need changing by the fuel presser and the sound of the pump. Is any one else having this problem?
I would also like to know how many microns a stock filter is.
Thanks Randy

CarlC
08-14-2007, 06:15 PM
The more I know about aftermarket parts the more I like OEM stuff.

It may not be all polished and sexy and all that, but I bet my life on the fact that your injectors will thank you.

Andrew

Dude, you stole my line! The next motor and support systems for the car, which is in the works, is getting a heavy dose of OE parts, and I'm kinda diggin' it.

I'm going to use the Corvette filter/regulator from a '99 car since I'm trying to keep a single line to the front. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but the company I'm dealing with is super comfortable with a 255lph, single 3/8" line, and supercharged 550RWHP.

GetMore
08-14-2007, 09:59 PM
I like the idea of an easily available, OEM type filter.
Does anyone know what would be the best choice? Are there many real differences, or do they all basically do the same thing?

I've got a 2001 Silverado, so maybe I'll get one for that. Then at least I won't have to worry about having two different filter numbers to think about.

EFI69Cam
08-15-2007, 06:03 AM
The more I know about aftermarket parts the more I like OEM stuff. Use a filter for a late 80s TPI Corvette. It is a 3/8 inlet and outlet. Earl's and other companies make adapters to go from the Saginaw o-ring fittings to -6 AN.

Here is a Wix for about 10 bucks:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It may not be all polished and sexy and all that, but I bet my life on the fact that your injectors will thank you.

Andrew


IMO, It would be best to run two of these in parallel. They are somewhat restrictive.

andrewb70
08-15-2007, 07:45 AM
IMO, It would be best to run two of these in parallel. They are somewhat restrictive.

I would like to see some data to back up this statement. This filter has been used, in conjunction with a Walbro 255L/hr pump, to feed a 600HP (flywheel) 496 big block chevy. I suppose if you had a 1000RWHP engine you would need something else, but for the 90% of builds out there, this filter will work just fine.

As for using the 2001 truck filter, I believe it will have the quick disconect style fittings on it. That will make it more difficullt to integrate into your fuel system.

Andrew

Rick Dorion
08-15-2007, 08:56 AM
The more I know about aftermarket parts the more I like OEM stuff. Use a filter for a late 80s TPI Corvette. It is a 3/8 inlet and outlet. Earl's and other companies make adapters to go from the Saginaw o-ring fittings to -6 AN.

Here is a Wix for about 10 bucks:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It may not be all polished and sexy and all that, but I bet my life on the fact that your injectors will thank you.

Andrew

That looks alot like my 97 GMC filter.

GetMore
08-15-2007, 09:55 AM
As for using the 2001 truck filter, I believe it will have the quick disconect style fittings on it. That will make it more difficullt to integrate into your fuel system.

You might think that since I changed it over the winter that I'd remember, but I'm not sure. I don't think it used quick disconnects. I'll have to double check.

andrewb70
08-15-2007, 09:58 AM
That looks alot like my 97 GMC filter.

The list of applications is about a mile long for this filter. Here are the specs:


Part Number: 33481 UPC Number: 765809334816 Principal Application: GM Models (83-07), Jaguar (97-07), Land Rover (99-04)
Style: Fuel (Complete In-Line) Filter Service: Fuel Height: 4.290 Outer Diameter Top: 2.170 Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed Burst Pressure-PSI: 300 Max Flow Rate: 1 - 2 GPM Nominal Micron Rating: 4


Taking the flow rate and choosing the middle of the range, 1.5GPM, that works out to 340 L/hour. A 255L/hour pump will easily support 600flywheel HP.

Andrew

andrewb70
08-15-2007, 10:07 AM
You might think that since I changed it over the winter that I'd remember, but I'm not sure. I don't think it used quick disconnects. I'll have to double check.

You are correct. Same filter. www.rockauto.com has a all the data. Neat site to reference many parts.

Andrew

CarlC
08-15-2007, 08:35 PM
There are some very inexpensive parts available to adapt the later model filter/regulator combos so that the quick disconnect can be used. ls1tech.com has a bunch of useful info.

GetMore
08-16-2007, 11:20 AM
I work at a shop, so I actually have access to the equipment to make the quick disconnect ends on the lines. Of course, since I don't need to it doesn't matter, but I've considered it.

ErikSOCAL
08-16-2007, 02:30 PM
this site rocks. I am going with that filter for the exact reasons listed, don't need no stinking polish and I like off the shelf parts.

EFI69Cam
08-18-2007, 06:21 AM
I would like to see some data to back up this statement. This filter has been used, in conjunction with a Walbro 255L/hr pump, to feed a 600HP (flywheel) 496 big block chevy. I suppose if you had a 1000RWHP engine you would need something else, but for the 90% of builds out there, this filter will work just fine.

As for using the 2001 truck filter, I believe it will have the quick disconect style fittings on it. That will make it more difficullt to integrate into your fuel system.

Andrew


No data, but consider this. That filter has at most a 10 micron paper element. There is no free lunch, and a 10 micron filter that size is going to be a restriction with its low filter area, especially when it gets dirty. Restrictions in the fuel system cause heat build up in the fuel. I have been battling heat saturation in my car and have replaced every "it should be big enough" part with overkill parts.

Karch
08-18-2007, 09:37 AM
No data, but consider this. That filter has at most a 10 micron paper element. There is no free lunch, and a 10 micron filter that size is going to be a restriction with its low filter area, especially when it gets dirty. Restrictions in the fuel system cause heat build up in the fuel. I have been battling heat saturation in my car and have replaced every "it should be big enough" part with overkill parts.

Thank you. I was concerned about this relatively small surface area, and the flow demands of the bigger engines.

Not to take anything away from the 'vettes, but a 350 making 400 hp and a 454 or larger, making 600 or more hp, is a big, big, difference in fuel demands. Especially when you consider that many built BB engines are not as efficient, so their BSFC goes up, and therefore the fuel demands (volume).

andrewb70
08-18-2007, 10:38 AM
Thank you. I was concerned about this relatively small surface area, and the flow demands of the bigger engines.

Not to take anything away from the 'vettes, but a 350 making 400 hp and a 454 or larger, making 600 or more hp, is a big, big, difference in fuel demands. Especially when you consider that many built BB engines are not as efficient, so their BSFC goes up, and therefore the fuel demands (volume).

I will say this again. This filter has been used countless times on a big block making 600HP, with no pressure drops at WOT.

Andrew

Karch
08-18-2007, 03:30 PM
Thanks Andrew. How often has it been changed? Just curious. I have the means to measure, very accurately, flow rates through this, but I am concerned about doing a setup with fuel with all the flammability issues, in the garage.

I can measure flow rates to +/- 0.05%...up to 800 GPH.

Doug F
08-19-2007, 01:50 PM
I use that itty bitty filter on my BBC with a Walbro 255LPH pump. I have rock steady 45 PSI fuel pressure. Car's gone 127.5 at 3640 lbs at the track so someone can figure out the HP although I have a pretty good guess :)

I replace the filter once every one or two years. The prefilter should be getting most of the junk.

ErikSOCAL
08-21-2007, 10:33 AM
which fitting does this need into the filter housing? one with an oring? fittings have been my nemisis lately.

andrewb70
08-21-2007, 10:36 AM
which fitting does this need into the filter housing? one with an oring? fittings have been my nemisis lately.

Yes, the o-ring type fittings. I think they area called Saginaw. So you would need a Saginaw to AN6 adapter.

Andrew

Fuelie Fan
08-21-2007, 01:41 PM
The engine doesn't determine the flow rate through the filter on EFI engines, the pump does. You could have a 6 cyl or a BBC, it doesn't matter, XY pump will still supply a given gal/hr at a given pressure setting. All that changes is how much is then sent back to the tank via the return.

Mkelcy
09-12-2007, 04:45 PM
Yes, the o-ring type fittings. I think they area called Saginaw. So you would need a Saginaw to AN6 adapter.

Andrew

I hate to be a pain, but I can't find anything by searching for this fitting. Do you have a part number? Thanks

Karch
09-12-2007, 08:35 PM
The engine doesn't determine the flow rate through the filter on EFI engines, the pump does. You could have a 6 cyl or a BBC, it doesn't matter, XY pump will still supply a given gal/hr at a given pressure setting. All that changes is how much is then sent back to the tank via the return.

But the engine/chassis does determine the fuel needs.

Fuelie Fan
09-13-2007, 01:33 PM
Which, like i said, affects only how much fuel gets sent back through the return line. NO effect on filter selection.

ErikSOCAL
09-14-2007, 06:43 AM
ok, fittings, fittings, fittings...
a friend of mine determined the fitting needs to be 16mm X 1.5mm pitch for the filter by googling the filter and p/n. He found p/n 3008 listed the specs for a tube nut that fits this filter. Here is the link..it also has a ton of other fittings which might be useful for conversions:
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:tZd7QhQ0A8wJ:www.fmsiinc.com/search/default2.asp%3Fkeyword%3Dfuel+wix+33481+fittings&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

From there he wasn't sure if it took an oring so I looked through summit and found the below listed parts. From andrew, I guess we know it should be the first or second one, but can someone please confirm this! Choices 2 and 3 the pictures seem reversed... the specs list oring for #2 but the oring pic is in #3 which doesn't list oring in the specs... i didn't go to the company website yet (work, shhh!) thanks -

(1) http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=AER-FBM2608
(2) http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EAR-9894DBJERL
(3) http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EAR-991955ERL
(4) http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=RUS-670531

Steve N 69 69 69
09-14-2007, 07:02 AM
I have the Aeromotive 10M, I like the fact that it can be opened up, to see what, if anything, is in the fuel. plus the large nonrestrictive element should be easier on the pump, and can be replaced for 15 bucks.
So I paid more initially, but replacement element are cheap.
and look..... it matches my regulator so nice :bananna2:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/09/large-1.jpg

Hammered
09-14-2007, 10:51 AM
While we're on this subject, does anyone know an OEM application for the Aeromotive 10 micron filter so that I can get it locally through NAPA or another parts store?

Blown353
09-14-2007, 12:12 PM
While we're on this subject, does anyone know an OEM application for the Aeromotive 10 micron filter so that I can get it locally through NAPA or another parts store?

It's probably like my SX filter which uses a Purolator 10 micron paper element inside. The element is stamped with Purolator and a part number-- unfortunately that particular element is not available "over the counter" because it's a custom produced part just for SX. Believe me, I tried to buy them elsewhere but even a large Purolator dealer here in town could not get them for me.

I ended up buying a case (12) of the elements and they cut me a deal. You might want to try that.

MonzaRacer
09-14-2007, 10:18 PM
WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, Those filters are the self same everyone has on just about any GM car out there and if there so restrictive tell me why they will feed a 505 hp LS7?
Now as some say if you need more flow add 2 filters in parralel, BUT I can guarantee you those are the least restrictive filters I have ever used.
As for flow a friend has modded them (not sure how) to hook to either -8 or -10 and he flows enough to feed a 980 hp BBC and he only swapped ends as it was a bitch to hook up.
As for being restrictive your only going to see a restriction IF it is getting stopped up.
I see 500hp GM cars still running with these filters so plugged I couldnt even blow through them.
One this tells you how adptive the stock setups are and how good the pumps and filters are.
as for keeping up with the Walbro 255 , you will see no restriction issues with the GM ones, As for hooking it up just get the fuel line repair section from NAPA and adapt from there.

parsonsj
01-26-2009, 04:59 PM
I to run the 100 and 10 micron setup. My problem is the 10 micron filter needs to be changed every 1000 to 1500 miles. I can tell when it need changing by the fuel pressure and the sound of the pump. Is any one else having this problem?I didn't know it until tonight, but hell yeah I'm having this problem.

Does anybody know what OEM filter ratings are in microns? Is a 10 micron filter really necessary?

jp

JRouche
01-26-2009, 07:20 PM
I have a Pro-flo EFI and use two Fram HPG-1 filters. One before the pump and one after. They are kinda big so theres alot of filtering area. So far no problems. JR

andrewb70
01-26-2009, 07:31 PM
I didn't know it until tonight, but hell yeah I'm having this problem.

Does anybody know what OEM filter ratings are in microns? Is a 10 micron filter really necessary?

jp

Here is a very popular filter used by GM and others.

http://info.rockauto.com/WIX/DetailWIX.htm?www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=33481

According to the WIX specs it is a 4 micron filter. Sometimes stock is best! LOL

Andrew

parsonsj
01-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Nicely done!

Per Andrew's link: 4 micron filter for an OEM spec. So Aeromotive's 10 micron filter is not that restrictive, and using it doesn't automatically mean that it will need replacement any more often than traditional filters.

Oh, and because I'm a little bored right now, I figured out Aeromotive's flow rate in gallons/minute: 5.5. Compare that to the Wix filter at 1-2. 4 micron filtration (40% of the size of the Aeromotive), 2 gallons/minute (40% of the flow of the Aeromotive). No magic there, and they probably both use similar materials for the filter itself.

jp

andrewb70
01-26-2009, 08:00 PM
Right: a 4 micron filter for an OEM spec. So Aeromotive's 10 micron filter is not that restrictive, and using it doesn't automatically mean that it will need replacement any more often than traditional filters.

Oh, and because I'm a little bored right now, I figured out Aeromotive's flow rate in gallons/minute: 5.5. Compare that to the Wix filter at 1-2. 4 micron filtration (40% of the size of the Aeromotive), 2 gallons/minute (40% of the flow of the Aeromotive). No magic there, and they probably both use similar materials for the filter itself.

jp

Nope, no magic. But in an earlier post Doug Flynn posted how that little filter works just fine on his big block Nova that runs 10s. I really believe those garden hose sized pumps and filters are only needed at power levels that 90% of us never reach.

Andrew

Blown353
01-26-2009, 08:19 PM
Nope, no magic. But in an earlier post Doug Flynn posted how that little filter works just fine on his big block Nova that runs 10s. I really believe those garden hose sized pumps and filters are only needed at power levels that 90% of us never reach.

Andrew

Yep, overkill of a fuel system is something a lot of people do, just like going too big on headers & exhaust or too big on cams. Heck, right now I'm doing the EFI tune on a 600hp blown 383 that the owner bought twin A1000's for! Even 1 is more than enough! I can't get him to tell me who decided he needed two of them... LOL!

But then again some of us guys really do need pumps that will push 500 lb/hr...

As far as the OEM 4 micron filter you could always Y-block it and run 2 in parallel for double the flow rate if you really needed the extra flow capacity.

However, 2 GPM is roughly 12.1 lb/minute, or 726 pph; at a .50 BSFC that OEM filter can support 1450hp or so.

CarlC
01-26-2009, 08:31 PM
In Andrews earlier post he pasted the 4-micron rating.

I too shake my head when a pump 1/2 the size of the engine is being used, and it hangs down in the breeze for all to see (and catch on.)

From a reliability standpoint, a pump just large enough to do the job will yeild the best results. Less heat is a good thing for a pump and tank system. I really like the later model speed modulated pumps, and there are some available for the aftermarket as well. Pretty slick, but for most a 190-255lbh in-tank Walboro is more than enough.

I really like the in-tank 255 and C5 FPR. At close to 530FWHP supercharged, it is plenty of pump.

parsonsj
01-26-2009, 08:37 PM
Uh, trying not to be defensive ... :)

All my brackets and what-not are built for Aeromotive stuff. So I'll stay with it. At least for now, and especially since I think I found the problem. It was such a simple thing, and I'm pissed at myself for only checking the one filter instead of both of them.

And my pump is a solid 11 inches off the ground, and hanging in the breeze keeps it cool. :enguard:

jp

parsonsj
01-27-2009, 04:18 AM
However, 2 GPM is roughly 12.1 lb/minute, or 726 pph; at a .50 BSFC that OEM filter can support 1450hp or so.Cool! Thanks for that calculation. Can you point me to that formula? I'd like to understand more.

jp

CarlC
01-27-2009, 06:29 AM
Not you JP. Yours is done nicely. I just cringe when I see some builds that have all that stuff hanging down well below a minimum safe level for both impact and asthetic values.

parsonsj
01-27-2009, 07:39 AM
Latest news:

Aeromotive Tech Support tells me my scenario is common: the 10 micron filter gets dirty, forcing the pump to deal with fuel pressure in excess of 100 psi in order to put 40 psi at the rails. After some time, the pump gets hot, the fuel goes into cavitation, and it fails.

They recommend that you replace the 10 micron element after 100 miles or so after a newly built car or a newly built fuel system is placed into service, since the new system is the dirtiest it will ever be.

Add in my hose problems, and the whole scenario makes sense.

So there you go: an EFI vapor lock problem that has nothing to do with deadhead vs after-rail regulator plumbing. :)

jp

parsonsj
01-27-2009, 07:42 AM
Not you JP. Yours is done nicely. I just cringe when I see some builds that have all that stuff hanging down well below a minimum safe level for both impact and asthetic values.Thanks! I worked hard to find a way to get my pump up out of the way for safety reasons.

jp

Hammered
01-27-2009, 06:51 PM
Cool! Thanks for that calculation. Can you point me to that formula? I'd like to understand more.

jp

Fuel Flow [lb/hr] / BSFC [lb/(hr HP)] = HP

That's assuming no factor of safety for injector duty cycle, power adders, etc...

You can't extrapolate one filter's flow rate from another based strictly on pore size (micron). It's conceivable to have a 10 micron filter that flows less than a 4 micron filter for the same pressure drop. You really need data (flow rate / pressure drop) to be making comparisons.

parsonsj
01-27-2009, 07:27 PM
You can't extrapolate one filter's flow rate from another based strictly on pore size (micron). I didn't. I used Aeromotive's published flow rate to compare the two filter elements. I was merely commenting that the micron size had a linear relationship with the flow rate, so my figures were reasonable.


Fuel Flow [lb/hr] / BSFC [lb/(hr HP)] = HPThanks! I'll save that.

jp

Hammered
01-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Sorry, I misread your email to mean that you were calculating one from another.

Pete68
08-28-2014, 09:32 PM
That GM filter seems like its proven itself.

This product fits 5692 vehicle variants.
Buick: 8 models, 44 variants between 1984 and 1991.
Cadillac: 7 models, 225 variants between 1986 and 2006.
Chevrolet: 47 models, 2396 variants between 1983 and 2006.
GMC: 42 models, 2848 variants between 1983 and 2006.
Medium Truck: 4 models, 23 variants between 1992 and 2002.
Oldsmobile: 6 models, 66 variants between 1984 and 1996.
Pontiac: 8 models, 90 variants between 1982 and 1993.

Ill stick with OEM whenever possible, Ive worked for an OEM for 15 years so I know how much testing goes into these parts.

http://www.tonkinonlineparts.com/p/__/Engine-Fuel-Filter-FILTER-FILTER-KIT/6248605/25171792.html

icemanrd19
07-03-2015, 09:07 PM
so using a stock 3/8 line i just need to put a section out of it, add a fitting on each of the ends, flare them and install. Im using the vapor works setup and it seems like a good idea to have another fuel filter closer to the engine bay