2008 Street Machine of the Year Changes

[Boesch]

Starting next year at Goodguys in Columbus, those up for contention for the Street Machine of the Year will have to compete in an autocross course, an acceleration test, and a braking test. This was announced at last nights awards banquet where the Ring Brothers mustang won Street Machine of the Year. This should make the contest even better. I'm already looking forward to it.

Dustin

[68sixspeed]

sounds like smart changes... I'd love to see them do the acceleration tests at National Trails- it's a nice drive from the fairgrounds, and if they made them drive the cars to and from the dragstrip, that would add credibility to the street-worthyness of the cars.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

As this is Street Machine of the year, I think the changes they plan on implementing are great; they should've done so sooner.

My only question is: will the vehicles performance reflect their position in the competition? I.e. Do all the cars just have to run the tests, and receive a "pass", or will they actually be ranked, based on their times / positions, etc.

[Rick D]

I can't see them makeing guys and girls taking their $200,000.00 plus cars and telling them ok go beat the Bleep out of it. If thats the case Bob Johnson will win every year :lmao: Not saying there isn't anyone else that wouldn't do it, just saying I'm sure that it will be a dog and pony show. Not a ranking of whos the best at each event. But I could be wrong:pat: .

[hotrdblder]

no one said they had to win the event just enter and complete the event.

[68sixspeed]

hmm... maybe points like 75% for car/build; 10% handling, 5% braking, 10% acceleration? but what do we know, we only drive our cars.

[Roger Poirier]

Who cares! The winner is..... A NAME BRAND BUILDER, for the rest, there is no need to apply. :lmao:

R.P.

[68fusion]

Who cares! The winner is..... A NAME BRAND BUILDER, for the rest, there is no need to apply. :lmao:

R.P.

I was thinking the same thing as I was waiting for the results. Where has the "backyard guy" gone?

Roger, saw you car for the first time - great looking car!

Who knows.. mabey a no-name could place well next year.

[Damn True]

I can't see them makeing guys and girls taking their $200,000.00 plus cars and telling them ok go beat the Bleep out of it. If thats the case Bob Johnson will win every year :lmao: Not saying there isn't anyone else that wouldn't do it, just saying I'm sure that it will be a dog and pony show. Not a ranking of whos the best at each event. But I could be wrong:pat: .

Maybe this will open the door to the regular guy?

If nothing else it will level the playing field a bit with some of the trailer-queens we've seen in the past.

[J2speedandcustom]

It is unfortunate, not many people got to see the huge burnouts Doug was doing on Friday night while they were shooting some video. He definitely drives the hell out of his cars. He was telling me about a local Iowa show a few weeks ago where he and another mustang laid it on the line down the middle of town! We are happy for Doug and Tracy!

[J2speedandcustom]

http://www.good-guys.com/news/newsStory.aspx?newsid=786

Here is a link to the good-guys site! Pretty cool!

[silver69camaro]

We all know Art would do it. He's the only man that I know of that builds a car that's worth more than my house and proceeds to drive it so hard he busts the differential. Not many people do that.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/07/zoom123vi-1.jpg

[Boesch]

http://www.good-guys.com/news/newsStory.aspx?newsid=786

Here is a link to the good-guys site! Pretty cool!

The photos of the Ring Brothers doing the burnouts are nice!

[Damn True]

We all know Art would do it. He's the only man that I know of that builds a car that's worth more than my house and proceeds to drive it so hard he busts the differential. Not many people do that.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/07/zoom123vi-1.jpg


....with his arm hanging out the window no less.

[MarkM66]

I was thinking the same thing as I was waiting for the results. Where has the "backyard guy" gone?

Roger, saw you car for the first time - great looking car!

Who knows.. mabey a no-name could place well next year.

The "backyard guy" is still the majority of the cars out there. SMOY is the best of the best, so yeah, he's not going to be able to compete. If backyard guys needs some sort of recognition in the form a trophy, stick to smaller local shows.

[180SX_Faktory]

I think the industry needs patrons to help the backyard guy and girl who show tremendous promise and then cut off the sponsorship once that person has demonstrated a clear ability to make it on his or her own in a farm league kind of thing after having made it to the show once. This would help upset the status quo because one wouldn't know who the next batch of dark horses are, and it will help push the industry even further and force people to not rest on the laurels of the last victory. Just my two cents...:)

[BRIAN]

It will be interesting to see how they implement the changes. A lot of builders debut cars at that show. Cars that have to run a slalom and then hit the strip need adjustments and tune time. They both usually ruin all those hours of detail work. Cars that run weap oil and adjustments nick paint. Most big dollar cars go through the show circuit and then hit the road for those very reasons.


Who drives the cars? Do they get to make changes? Who insures a $500k car being raced? I think the criteria will be pretty relaxed. It also might push the backyard guy further out. Now not only do you have to build the car but also bring all the supporting stuff to run it hard. Parts break during competition.

Interesting changes.

[180SX_Faktory]

It will be interesting to see how they implement the changes. A lot of builders debut cars at that show. Cars that have to run a slalom and then hit the strip need adjustments and tune time. They both usually ruin all those hours of detail work. Cars that run weap oil and adjustments nick paint. Most big dollar cars go through the show circuit and then hit the road for those very reasons.


Who drives the cars? Do they get to make changes? Who insures a $500k car being raced? I think the criteria will be pretty relaxed. It also might push the backyard guy further out. Now not only do you have to build the car but also bring all the supporting stuff to run it hard. Parts break during competition.

Interesting changes.

Well, this will definitely make the competitors start building cars that are "jack of all trades, master of none" Face it, people have already built cars that are focused to be strong performers in one or two areas, but the human element will always weigh in... "yeah, but can she run?" Today's car enthusiasts are exposed to so many forms of motorsport, and the question that always pops into the head is "man, can my car do that?"

Cars that leak or weep oil are not well-built. Would you buy a leaker if you knew it was one? Leaking oil is not an excuse for any engine. No engine, transmission, rear diff should be losing fluids. Suspension dialing isn't that hard to do. If a team is already prepared, they will have already run tests and collected data locked away in the playbook and will just quickly change up settings depending on the nature of the environment the car will operate in at that moment. That's the beauty of programmable ECUs, electronic ride height/dampener controllers (TEIN has had this optional feature for over 8 years now). Chipped paint because they ran a course? Bull hockey! Those are battle scars and a testament that the car can run. I am sure that the judges will hold that in consideration. If a car gets damage or suffers catastrophic failure because it was run, well... be careful then. Rules of the pit... wanna play? Then be prepared to pay and get a good driver. "I lost paint on my fenders because I did not compensate lateral roll with the correct dampening setting..." or "my rake and caster really blows! Look at my paint damage!" Proper planning prevents pee-pee poor performance. If a car suffers damage or loss because of the negligence of the event organizer... that's a different story.

I'm glad they implemented these rules for next year. Now, it'll be something really interesting to see! Builders? Get some professionals who work with import racing to help you build/prepare for next year! :) PT has benefitted tremendously from spin-off technology the import guys have invented (electric fans, diverter panels, coilovers, big brake kits to name a few), so why not hire some of the brain-trust? Not trying to wrinkle the brows... just chiming in with my 2 cents. :)

[68fusion]

The "backyard guy" is still the majority of the cars out there. SMOY is the best of the best, so yeah, he's not going to be able to compete. If backyard guys needs some sort of recognition in the form a trophy, stick to smaller local shows.


You say recognition like it's a BAD thing, to have others think that your car, truck...whatever is of certain quality. I think you can run the snot out of a car and still look good, just build it so finishes are durable and cleanable. I think it makes no difference to xcross/drift/dragrace for a trophy or time to beat others than it is to wheel you $500k PT trailer queen out to see who is the shiniest. Same thing different way to spend your money.

[BRIAN]

I have to ask with no disrespect if you have ever built a full on top to bottom car. Finishes are only new once I do not care what you use. Water spots and road debri cause marks.

I have yet to see a car that does not weap at all including any brand new vehicle. It shows 10x as much on a detailed ride. A simple fluid leak can cause a tear down a redo on a show car.

Most cars are running one of suspensions that will require adjustments if not changes. Once again take a wrench to a part more than once and it shows. These are for the most part one off cars without the usual bolt on stuff. The only well to test it is to drive it. Might look great but fail within the first 50 miles.

Go take a look at a Riddler car while on the floor and then after it has been driven. There is a difference weather you are into that type of car or not.

I drive my cars hard and the marks do not bother me but it is hard to compete with the cars that are rolled off the trailer. I hope the new changes bring about some sort of change although I do feel there is a spot for 100% show cars. They push the envelope as do racing these cars. That brings innovation.

Maybe two classes, driver and show car. Both should at least have to drive a certain distance which Goodguys kind of does already.

[Damn True]

I have to ask with no disrespect if you have ever built a full on top to bottom car. Finishes are only new once I do not care what you use. Water spots and road debri cause marks.

I have yet to see a car that does not weap at all including any brand new vehicle. It shows 10x as much on a detailed ride. A simple fluid leak can cause a tear down a redo on a show car.

Most cars are running one of suspensions that will require adjustments if not changes. Once again take a wrench to a part more than once and it shows. These are for the most part one off cars without the usual bolt on stuff. The only well to test it is to drive it. Might look great but fail within the first 50 miles.

Go take a look at a Riddler car while on the floor and then after it has been driven. There is a difference weather you are into that type of car or not.

I drive my cars hard and the marks do not bother me but it is hard to compete with the cars that are rolled off the trailer. I hope the new changes bring about some sort of change although I do feel there is a spot for 100% show cars. They push the envelope as do racing these cars. That brings innovation.

Maybe two classes, driver and show car. Both should at least have to drive a certain distance which Goodguys kind of does already.

The award is for the STREET MACHINE of the year is it not? If so then how does a trailer-queen with more miles being pushed across carpet than under it's own power qualify?

[180SX_Faktory]

No disrespect taken at all, bro! Yes, I have built and am still building cars from top to bottom. Yes, all engines will develop a leak from time to time, BUT that is the nature of moving assemblies (I guess if nothing leaked, we wouldn't need garages). But if an engine leaks because it was ran hard for an event, then IMHO that's lack of attention to detail and preparation. The leaking engine should have been caught and repaired before the event. Why spend countless hours on the visual and not give the engine (the ONLY reason a car should exist) it's full due? Full due is blueprinting, properly matched internals, well-machined mating surfaces, proper torques, and running the engine via bench and in the car to make sure it can hold up to the stresses. Blame it on the Navy pilot and the wrench turner in me. For example, in the military and commercial aviation, an engine that has been assembled will get run and put through the paces on a bench before it is QA'd and marked "5.0 checks good on deck" before it is put into the engine can for issue. If that engine develops a leak or something isn't meeting a manufacturers measurement parameter, that engine is taken apart again and the repair made until the engine can pass all standards. OK, with that in mind, why not with a car engine and with the transmission? Yes, some people will think my mentality is too anal, but when I am being paid money by someone to build them an engine, I will not let it leave the premises until I know for sure it's not a leaker.

As for suspension, if the import guy and girl can change up their suspension settings on the fly, so can these cars. Why buy top dollar suspension components and not learn how to use, adjust and change settings? Air bagged cars, we have them in the import scene and there are some drift and circuit cars that have them and they do quite well. If I did not have faith in a car to not last 50 miles... bro, there's deeper issues than suspension IMHO.

I'm not here to knock what is your opinion, bro. Just point/counterpoint. I am with you on driver and show cars. I really don't think the two should be mixed, and I don't think double-dipping should be allowed. Either 100% driver or 100% show categories. One should not outweigh the other. The driver in me, as I am sure is with you, has a sense of pride that a car that has extracted our time, blood, sweat, tears of anger and joy can put the money down where the proverbial mouth is. :)

[68fusion]

I have to ask with no disrespect if you have ever built a full on top to bottom car. Finishes are only new once I do not care what you use. Water spots and road debri cause marks.




No disrespect taken, but there are ways to "lessen" the effects of use and adjustment. The Rings car for example was textured or black underneath and Alloways was painted. The texture would be more user friendly, still able to clean but chip harder. Thats just one example, going in knowing the car will be driven and building it accordingly. That was my thinking behind being able to run it and still look good. Does it look "new" , no. But if something can't withstand a little use or water/oil getting on it...I don't use it.



www.customclassicsandrestorations.com (http://www.customclassicsandrestorations.com)

[Boesch]

Last years Street Rod of the Year was built top to bottom detailed. The Street Machines are built to this same quality. Just because a car is built this way doesn't mean it can't be driven. A lot of people think that car is a trailer queen. But Dad built that car with the intentions of the owner driving it and having fun with it. Here's a shot from last year's Goodguys show in Kansas City where he had it out on the autocross track.

[180SX_Faktory]

Last years Street Rod of the Year was built top to bottom detailed. The Street Machines are built to this same quality. Just because a car is built this way doesn't mean it can't be driven. A lot of people think that car is a trailer queen. But Dad built that car with the intentions of the owner driving it and having fun with it. Here's a shot from last year's Goodguys show in Kansas City where he had it out on the autocross track.

Man, that is ONE BEAUTIFUL machine, and it looks fun to drive! You guys inspire me to do better!

[DLinson]

Now I'm looking more forward to the KC Show. I didn't know they had an autocross event at the show. I knew they let the cars drive on the oval track at parade speed. I'll have to autocross it while I'm there. Think I should bother fixing all of the rock chips and scratches on the suspension pieces, frame, firewall, etc. or just leave them?

By the way, some people don't have the extra buck laying around to send an engine to a dyno shop to have it fully tested. Testing starts once it is in the car. Leaks happen and then you have to decide if it's worth pulling the engine to fix.

[180SX_Faktory]

Now I'm looking more forward to the KC Show. I didn't know they had an autocross event at the show. I knew they let the cars drive on the oval track at parade speed. I'll have to autocross it while I'm there. Think I should bother fixing all of the rock chips and scratches on the suspension pieces, frame, firewall, etc. or just leave them?

By the way, some people don't have the extra buck laying around to send an engine to a dyno shop to have it fully tested. Testing starts once it is in the car. Leaks happen and then you have to decide if it's worth pulling the engine to fix.

IMO leave them. If you are expected to do the autocross, rock chips and such are a way of life. I don't know of any car that autocrosses that doesn't have those.

Yeah, true... Not everybody has the extra buck lying around to do dyno runs and such, but as I made mention in another thread, costs can be offset if you have sponsors/patrons. It's something to think about. If one is that hungry to win, place or show, then going into an event without exhausting all possible measures beforehand, well... chances of making it to the top are not too good. Leakers just plain suck, and I'll be the first to yank an engine because it just reflects poor assembly, inferior materials or a combination of things. That's my belief and habit ingrained into my head by my dad and good old fashioned military aviation philosophy. If I assembled an engine for one of my dad's cars and it was a leaker, it was my head that caught knuckles and my hands having to disassemble everything back down to parade rest and built back up again with dad micromanaging me. Same thing with Navy aircraft when I was an enlisted guy. If the job I performed did not pass standards, it was my sorry butt that had to do everything all over again. If I worked into the next shift, well, that was my own tough luck. As a pilot, I can relate and appreciate high standards because I will not accept a jet to go punching holes into the sky with if it is not up to standards. Yes, things happen even when everything was done correctly, but that may apply to 1/2 percent of the time. Others don't think so. Just my 2 cents.

[SN65]

The powers that be have elected to add an additional criteria to the SMOY competition. It appeares that all contenders must compete in an autocross event.

That is all I have heard so far. I wonder how the autocross results will be weighed? Will a contender have to post a minimum time to be considered?

This would have been an interesting addition to this years top 5. Who would have won is just so much speculation, but it would have been fun to see just who would have come out on top.

[ironworks]

Yeah they are going to have to drag race, and brake test it also. It should be interesting to see how many big spenders drive it them selves or hire a road course ringer.

We are track testing my car next week so John can have some seat time, so he can drive it himself.

[Damn True]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32505&highlight=SMOY

[LateNight72]

:drive2:

[SN65]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32505&highlight=SMOY
Thanks for the link, I missed that thread.

[SN65]

Well....

It appeares that a majority of the debate on the other thread was trailer queen vs street driven.

I was wondering if anyone had any idea as to how they were going to handle the breakdown. I think that SMOY should place at or near the top of every catagory. This will eliminate the "Yeah, our car makes 1,100 HP and should do about 8 sec in the quarter mile" comments. And assorted other tall tails bandied about by some car show exhibiters.

[z4me69]

its about time it's smoy=street machine of the year not tqoy=trailer queen of the year

[Damn True]

No reason to start the conversation anew. Can the mods merge these two threads?

[Bill Howell]

Truth is Bob, I don't think the details have been worked out yet. From what I was told, by someone that should know, at Columbus about this, the idea is to have contestants run the autocross. They don't have to be in the top ten or anything, but the DO have to make an attempt to autocross the car. I love the idea and think it will enhance the SMOY. If the Cuda can run an autocross, any other SMOY hopeful should also.

True, someone else will have to merge the two threads, Me not that smart....hehe.

[ironworks]

I don't think it should be based on time or performance, unless the owner is the driver. If a guy brings in Boris Said to drive his car how is that fair. Then it is best driver of the year not the street machine of the year. I was told that they just want to see you slide it around a turn and use it, not just trailer it to the show.

We plan to start track testing John's Nova next may to june. So it is ready for the show.

Rodger

[Bill Howell]

Better explaintion than I did Roger. I don't think the goal is to win a event autocross to be considered for a SMOY. Rather, just prove your car is not a total Trailer Queen. Sure, no one is going to push a possible SMOY 100% in an autocross, but if you refuse to prove you can drive it, why should it be a SMOY?

[J-Rod]

Unless they do like what Top Gear does and has the same driver drive all the cars on the same course.

[parsonsj]

I've thought about these new rules, and I think it makes it even harder for non-professionals to win the thing. Perhaps that's not even the goal, so ignore the rest of my argument if that's that case.

With the new rules, SMOY hopefuls will need to have a detailing crew to get the car back to the flawless finish needed to win after flogging them on the track. I think a better way to do this is to have the cars run the autoX and drag race (or whatever) at Columbus. That will take away some of the advantage that big crews with full-bore shops can bring to bear in terms of detailing the chassis, suspension, engine, etc. after the car's been run a bit.

It reminds me of how some of the big-name golf courses lengthened their layouts to keep the big hitters at bay. Of course, all that did was to take the game completely out of reach of the not-so-long hitters.

jp

[Ralph LoGrasso]

No reason to start the conversation anew. Can the mods merge these two threads?

Threads merged.

[SN65]

Better explaintion than I did Roger. I don't think the goal is to win a event autocross to be considered for a SMOY. Rather, just prove your car is not a total Trailer Queen. Sure, no one is going to push a possible SMOY 100% in an autocross, but if you refuse to prove you can drive it, why should it be a SMOY?
Well, I'm sorry, but that is just sad.

Anyone can putt around an autocross. In what way, shape or form does driving the car through an autocross add to the competition or prove anything. I thought that this award was supposed to be somewhat performance orientated.

I can see it now…

John Doe shows up in a really breathtaking car. The fit and finish are exceptional and the paint is beyond compare. John says “We built this car to be the meanest street machine around. We make about 1,200 HP from our twin turbo big block. We built a custom tube chassis that we fit up with some of the finest bolt on suspension components available. We should easily do low 9’s, if not 8's, in the quarter mile.” He hops in the car and does one of the meanest burnouts ever and drives away as the favorite to win SMOY. The next day at the autocross event, he slides all over the track in a car that hopelessly spins it’s wheels, even at moderate acceleration and then, when he does get it to finally move, plows through the corners worse than an International Harvester box truck. After turning in the slowest time of the day he proclaims that it was his tires fault. If he has a good set of track tires he would have done much better. At the braking test the car is over biased to the rear and his front left caliper binds. He comes to a stop sitting sideways on the track about 25 feet past the rest of the pack. At the acceleration test he finally gets the rear to bite, but he drops his drive shaft and barely coasts over the finish line.

The next day he walks away with the SMOY award. After all, he did compete and finish.

[hotrdblder]

Well, I'm sorry, but that is just sad.

Anyone can putt around an autocross. In what way, shape or form does driving the car through an autocross add to the competition or prove anything. I thought that this award was supposed to be somewhat performance orientated.

I can see it now…

John Doe shows up in a really breathtaking car. The fit and finish are exceptional and the paint is beyond compare. John says “We built this car to be the meanest street machine around. We make about 1,200 HP from our twin turbo big block. We built a custom tube chassis that we fit up with some of the finest bolt on suspension components available. We should easily do low 9’s, if not 8's, in the quarter mile.” He hops in the car and does one of the meanest burnouts ever and drives away as the favorite to win SMOY. The next day at the autocross event, he slides all over the track in a car that hopelessly spins it’s wheels, even at moderate acceleration and then, when he does get it to finally move, plows through the corners worse than an International Harvester box truck. After turning in the slowest time of the day he proclaims that it was his tires fault. If he has a good set of track tires he would have done much better. At the braking test the car is over biased to the rear and his front left caliper binds. He comes to a stop sitting sideways on the track about 25 feet past the rest of the pack. At the acceleration test he finally gets the rear to bite, but he drops his drive shaft and barely coasts over the finish line.

The next day he walks away with the SMOY award. After all, he did compete and finish.
your my new hero, take the chip off your shoulder and stop being jealous you have not won any big awards, its pretty apparent you need attention.

[SN65]

your my new hero, take the chip off your shoulder and stop being jealous you have not won any big awards, its pretty apparent you need attention.
No chip here. Not jealous at all.

I am perfectly happy for the Ring Brothers. Alan and Bob Johnson. Bobby Alloway. Chip Foose. Etc... They have all worked long and hard to get where they are today.

I am just saying that adding an autocross to the SMOY competition without any criteria is meaningless. There has to be some kind of basis for the autocross or why add it at all. It may be fun, but, in the end, if it does not count one way or another, it is none the less meaninless.

Lets add a topless beach vollyball competition to the Miss America Beauty Contest. Winning or loosing won't have any impact on the outcome, but it will be fun to watch.

Even if the autocross, acceleration and braking, had a 10% impact, that would be better than no impact at all. And if the competition had a 10% impact it would only come into play if the normal gudging were neck and neck.

If, when they count all the gudges votes, there are two cars neck and neck, why not have the competion determine the outcome.

Here is the snippet from the GG web site...

During the awards ceremony, the crowd erupted into applause when it was announced the criteria for the 2008 Street Machine of the Year award would be changing. Next year, the contenders will be asked to complete an Autocross road course as part of the criteria. “People want to see these cars perform and do what they were built for,” Voelkel said. Goodguys will announce the 2008 award criteria in the near future.

Maybe it is just an exibition event, but when they say "part of the criteria" to me, it sounds like the event will have an impact on the outcome.

[BRIAN]

I think everybody is way off base as to what the driver portion of the SMOY will be. I think it will simply be some simple cones where the car will have to prove it can drive through. Then there will be basic acceleration and brake tests set up the same way. Some will go all out others will coast through. I think it will be just a rule and the judged portion will stay just the way it is. I do not think how a car performs in the driver portion will have any effect on the winner besides the fact that it is a mandatoy to compete.


It is hard to explain to an owner of a $500k car that has never been driven that you are going to beat the sh$t out of it so your shop can boast being the winner of a contest. Do I agree?? NO I think simply driving a car is what a car is supposed to do. A lot of guys on here were chearing a certain high end ride for doing just that. If someone or a magazine claims something is the ultimate than I want numbers so I have something to shoot for in my builds as I am sure tons of others do too. If I say somebody is the homerun King I can also tell you there stats to prove it.


From what I understand the award is given by a sponsor? If so I think another sponsor who sells products geared towards competetion driving should step up and have the award eveybody wants which is a driver based competition that is also judged on the quality of the build. No that is not SMOY as I stands.

[MarkM66]

No chip here. Not jealous at all.

I am perfectly happy for the Ring Brothers. Alan and Bob Johnson. Bobby Alloway. Chip Foose. Etc... They have all worked long and hard to get where they are today.

I am just saying that adding an autocross to the SMOY competition without any criteria is meaningless. There has to be some kind of basis for the autocross or why add it at all. It may be fun, but, in the end, if it does not count one way or another, it is none the less meaninless.

Lets add a topless beach vollyball competition to the Miss America Beauty Contest. Winning or loosing won't have any impact on the outcome, but it will be fun to watch.

Even if the autocross, acceleration and braking, had a 10% impact, that would be better than no impact at all. And if the competition had a 10% impact it would only come into play if the normal gudging were neck and neck.

If, when they count all the gudges votes, there are two cars neck and neck, why not have the competion determine the outcome.

Here is the snippet from the GG web site...

During the awards ceremony, the crowd erupted into applause when it was announced the criteria for the 2008 Street Machine of the Year award would be changing. Next year, the contenders will be asked to complete an Autocross road course as part of the criteria. “People want to see these cars perform and do what they were built for,” Voelkel said. Goodguys will announce the 2008 award criteria in the near future.

Maybe it is just an exibition event, but when they say "part of the criteria" to me, it sounds like the event will have an impact on the outcome.

What makes you think it wont have an impact on the outcome?

[hotrdblder]

part of the outcome??? give me a break, if the car breaks it cannot get in period, how does that not affect the outcome? there was a red and white bubbletop this year that would of been top 5 had it not spewed antifreeze all over the pros pick area, you are jealous

[SN65]

part of the outcome??? give me a break, if the car breaks it cannot get in period, how does that not affect the outcome? there was a red and white bubbletop this year that would of been top 5 had it not spewed antifreeze all over the pros pick area, you are jealous
Interesting....

So, your saying that one of the cars that made it into the top five did not deserve it? If not for some random act of the radiator hose gods a bubbletop would have made the cut.

Maybe we should have you pre-screen the cars down to the five you consider worthy and save everybody involved a lot of time and effort. :poke:

And, as far as the jealous thing goes, come on, really, what do I have to be jealous about. I was not competing for SMOY. I was pulling for the Ring Brothers to take SMOY and they did. I was not competing for anything of consequence this year. Although, I did get a niffty trophy at the local McDonalds cruse night.

:thankyou:

I have just been driving my car (8,000 miles and still ticking) building another and having fun along the way. You should be doing the same.

[hotrdblder]

Interesting....

So, your saying that one of the cars that made it into the top five did not deserve it? If not for some random act of the radiator hose gods a bubbletop would have made the cut.

Maybe we should have you pre-screen the cars down to the five you consider worthy and save everybody involved a lot of time and effort. :poke:

And, as far as the jealous thing goes, come on, really, what do I have to be jealous about. I was not competing for SMOY. I was pulling for the Ring Brothers to take SMOY and they did. I was not competing for anything of consequence this year. Although, I did get a niffty trophy at the local McDonalds cruse night.

:thankyou:

I have just been driving my car (8,000 miles and still ticking) building another and having fun along the way. You should be doing the same.
yeah i should pre screen them, it was a general thought that he the bubble top would of made it, maybe you should of been there, ask around since it seems yo uknow everything, how the hell does doing an autocross not have an affect on the outcome??? the reason i mentioned the bubbletop was because he did not even have a chance to get in because of the radiator hose, that was my point.
and yes i am building a car, however you should drive more and stop asking whos fatest thru the kink, does whoever goes thru the kink the fastest win the race?? i highly doubt the "kink" affects the final outcome of the race.:hail:

[hotrdblder]

its also to bad they didn't do the autocross deal this year, it would of been fun watching the ring bros rear end rip out for a fourth time because of no susp travel, then what?? they still win for a car that does not work?? what is a street machine??

[Ronald Winter]

I think we got lost here the top five streetrod award I got this year is sitting in my son's room and doesn't compare to a drive down by the beach with the radio on

[onebad2]

Alright guys...We are all here to have FUN .

Paul

[Roger Poirier]

I think we got lost here the top five streetrod award I got this year is sitting in my son's room and doesn't compare to a drive down by the beach with the radio on

It can't get better then that! :bananna2::bananna2::bananna2:

R.P.

[Bill Howell]

I don't know about your senario Bob. Like mentioned above, that killer 62 bubbletop this year was eliminated over a simple radiator hose coming off. Plain and simple that car was a top 5 hands down, maybe top 2 car, but the antifreeze on the ground killed its chances. I am thinking a poor showing on the autocross would hurt SMOY chances too.
Hey, we all know politics are very much present at any award show, but I feel, from what I have seen that Goodguys is about as fair as any of them go. The obvious choice this year had it been political would have been the DSE entry. Not because Kyle, Stacy and crew built one heck of a car, but because of who the owner was. What a boom in business if they would have played the JR. card. The Street Rod of the year this year was a bit tough also. Since I know Ron personally, I was biased toward his. Not only because a friend owned it, another friend built it, but, mainly because Ron's car was probably the one with the most miles on it. That one fact would have put his over the top for me had I been a judge. However, from a "favorite personal car" side of things, the Willys was just killer. I would have picked it had I just chosen my favorite body style. Neither won, so what do I know???
When I said they should have to run the autocross, I did not mean 25%, I was thinking more like 65 or 70%. We could debate this all year, but the bottom line is, I like this criteria thrown in the mix. May the best car, real, total car win, and hopefully a little real world drive will help prove it is a real, total car...:twothumbs

[BADVELLE]

No really, this is fun, keep it up! So much fun when there is soooo much argument over a trophy that collects dust. We all will have our opinions and favorites for that matter. Lets face it, the last true driver to win this award was DSE (Twister), whether you agree or disagree, this is fact. However, there have been some awesome cars that have one, I saw Pigfords Nova at KC GG the year before he won the award, awesome car, but it was a forgone conclusion that he would win the award the following year (missed it the previous year b/c the bolts in the hood latch gave way and flew up, did not make the show). To bottom line it for everyone, if you don't like the rules or the politics involved, don't compete, simple as that!

Now, back to the arguement, I love it!:jump:

[SN65]

yeah i should pre screen them, it was a general thought that he the bubble top would of made it, maybe you should of been there, ask around since it seems yo uknow everything, how the hell does doing an autocross not have an affect on the outcome??? the reason i mentioned the bubbletop was because he did not even have a chance to get in because of the radiator hose, that was my point.
and yes i am building a car, however you should drive more and stop asking whos fatest thru the kink, does whoever goes thru the kink the fastest win the race?? i highly doubt the "kink" affects the final outcome of the race.:hail:
You know, this is getting WAY beyond the point.

Concerning the autocross. My point isthat my wife could drive a car through any autocross. She dosen't drive a stick. Has zero experiance. Would be scared to death the entier time, but she could EVENTUALLY work her way around the cones and post a truely awfull time. The car would never get out of first gear and the risk of doing any damage to the car would be minimal at best. That is, unless her foot froze to the floor and she sent the car full speed ahead into the crowd.

If there is no criteria, all you will have to do is baby the car through the autocross and be done with it. IF that is the case, what have you proved. Nothing, zero, zip, etc....

AND... in regard to the bubble top, there are NO guarantees at any car show. NONE. The best car does not always win. For example. At last years YOE the G-Force Cuda was the favorite to win HANDS DOWN. Not only did it not win, it did not even place. We came in second that year. Was our car better than the Cuda. No. Was Bob ripped 7 ways to Sunday. Yes. But it goes to show that there is no such thing as a sure thing. It happens all the time at every show. So, even though the bubble top may have been, hands down, the best car there, it does not mean that it would have won or even made it to the top five.

In closing, as far as the "kink" is concerned, even though it was only a "cruising" event, it was our first real full out track experiance. Wayne was not recording any lap times, but he did say that it was the most fun he had ever had in a car. He was just relating the experiance to me and said the highpoint was flying through the kink at speed. He thought that george was going way to fast and glanced at the speedo as they entered the corner. I related that story back and asked others of their experiance. Yes, I have asked the same question on 3 other forums. And to be honest, I have learned different things from each one.

Here is the same conversation at CC

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35372

In that conversation, there was some give and take and I (as well as others) actually learned something. Some of my pre-concieved notions were put in place and I have a better understanding of what it truely important on a race track.

Here is the PT thread.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33420

What did anybody learn from that exchange??? Also, what did you gain?

[SN65]

its also to bad they didn't do the autocross deal this year, it would of been fun watching the ring bros rear end rip out for a fourth time because of no susp travel, then what?? they still win for a car that does not work?? what is a street machine??
Carefull there. I think the suspension was designed / supplied by AirRide.
Maybe you should give them a call and help them update their design. :bananna2:

Opps.... Forgot to answer your last question.

The answer to "what is a street machine" is going to be different depending on who you ask. You have your opinion and I have mine.

The people over at Schwartz performance will tell you that it is an Ulta running a twin turbo LS7.
Others will say it is a tricked out Shoe Box.
People at this site will most likely be biased towards a pro-touring (open for interpretation) type ride.
Some lean toward the Pro-Street genre.

I believe that the SMOY is an embodiment of all these things. The winner should be the best of the best in regard to whatever style or "theme" they choose. How successful in turning that “concept” into reality it the crucial factor. But the car had better do what it was designed to do or the entire build should be scrapped. If the car produces 1,000 HP and was designed with a road race theme it had better kick ass on the road course. If it was designed to be a general high performance, all around street car, it had better ride like a dream and rack up some serious miles on the street. If it was designed to hit 8 seconds in the quarter mile, it had better back it up at the track. If it was built to emulate factory concept cars, it should look like it was built by the engineers at Ford (no bolt on aftermarket performance parts). IMHO, SMOY should go to the builder who comes closest to meeting the overall design goal of the project. Anything else is just talk.

[hotrdblder]

the susp ripping out of the car had nothing to do with air ride, don't you know it has to be installed by someone?? maybe that someone did not set it up with enough susp travel and just maybe that someone did not reinforce the mounting points enough?? do you think there is a chance that could happen?
thanks but your threads are always look at me, look at me, then to say the autocross will not have an affect?? i tell you what if this year the ring bros car went real slow but the dse or alloway car tore it up who do you think would of won?? of course if it were part of the criteria, so drop the "it won't have an affect on smoy" your still mad your car did not win

[onebad2]

Lets just solve this with a Build Off!!!

[novanutcase]

Bob,

I'm the last person to comment on touting ones car as I am the king of that but as far as the "new" SMOTY rules I will say that I think what GG is trying to do is make sure they don't have trailer queens that don't have all the systems that make a complete car drivable! I saw a couple of cars at GG Columbus that were not complete but were just "put together" to show it. These, in my opinion, should not be considered for SMOTY!

John

[onebad2]

Bob,
I saw a couple of cars at GG Columbus that were not complete but were just "put together" to show it. These, in my opinion, should not be considered for SMOTY!

John

lol, Like my car was that weekend! lol


Paul

[MarkM66]

You know, this is getting WAY beyond the point.

Concerning the autocross. My point isthat my wife could drive a car through any autocross. She dosen't drive a stick. Has zero experiance. Would be scared to death the entier time, but she could EVENTUALLY work her way around the cones and post a truely awfull time. The car would never get out of first gear and the risk of doing any damage to the car would be minimal at best. That is, unless her foot froze to the floor and she sent the car full speed ahead into the crowd.

If there is no criteria, all you will have to do is baby the car through the autocross and be done with it. IF that is the case, what have you proved. Nothing, zero, zip, etc....

AND... in regard to the bubble top, there are NO guarantees at any car show. NONE. The best car does not always win. For example. At last years YOE the G-Force Cuda was the favorite to win HANDS DOWN. Not only did it not win, it did not even place. We came in second that year. Was our car better than the Cuda. No. Was Bob ripped 7 ways to Sunday. Yes. But it goes to show that there is no such thing as a sure thing. It happens all the time at every show. So, even though the bubble top may have been, hands down, the best car there, it does not mean that it would have won or even made it to the top five.

In closing, as far as the "kink" is concerned, even though it was only a "cruising" event, it was our first real full out track experiance. Wayne was not recording any lap times, but he did say that it was the most fun he had ever had in a car. He was just relating the experiance to me and said the highpoint was flying through the kink at speed. He thought that george was going way to fast and glanced at the speedo as they entered the corner. I related that story back and asked others of their experiance. Yes, I have asked the same question on 3 other forums. And to be honest, I have learned different things from each one.

Here is the same conversation at CC

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35372

In that conversation, there was some give and take and I (as well as others) actually learned something. Some of my pre-concieved notions were put in place and I have a better understanding of what it truely important on a race track.

Here is the PT thread.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33420

What did anybody learn from that exchange??? Also, what did you gain?

You should of learned something from the pt.com thread, although it wasn't about the "kink." :eek:

[BADVELLE]

Every big name car/builder (and most average Joe's) in that award and at the event will be enclosed in a trailer to the event, none are driven from the home shop to the event. This award seems to be getting to be the SMOTYR (Street Machine of the Year Ridler)!! Case in point is JP, he did not bring his car to the show for several reasons I am sure, one of which is he has not the time to detail top to bottom. If this award was about driving, then he would not have to worry about that portion, just look at the build and fit and finish of the car, don't penalize b/c it is driven. This whole autocross, prove the car runs/performs is a crock of *&^%, they are just trying to be political, all show on GG's part. You now, got to keep them coming back every year.

John[/quote]

[SN65]

Lets just solve this with a Build Off!!!
There you go.

Lets have a build off.

Put your money where your mouth is and lets meet at Good Guys next year.

We will bring our current project car and you can bring yours.

Lets run the autocross, or better yet lets do a couple of quarter mile blasts. I will even give you the best two out of three. Or lets check for fit and finish. I will bring my calipers and gap guages and we can measure every gap. Lets say the first person outside a plus or minus .005" tolerance looses.

Or how about we let the decision be based on overall project design and engineering.

Sounds like fun. Let the best builder win...

[BADVELLE]

This has become laughable! :hammer:

Does everyone realize that you are chasing a trophy, is this what this is all about, if not, heads are really getting to big.

[hotrdblder]

no sn65 just has more money then brains, money can always build a car, not just anyone can build a car, sn65 can do all the work himself and i will do all the work myself, and lets do it,
next year sn65 will just be post whoring on the 1/4 mile forums because he has a 9 sec mustang with perfect gaps.
oh ya sn65 is not a builder, i do not know anyone who does not do the work but calls him self a car builder, writing checks is not car building

[SN65]

no sn65 just has more money then brains, money can always build a car, not just anyone can build a car, sn65 can do all the work himself and i will do all the work myself, and lets do it,
next year sn65 will just be post whoring on the 1/4 mile forums because he has a 9 sec mustang with perfect gaps.
oh ya sn65 is not a builder, i do not know anyone who does not do the work but calls him self a car builder, writing checks is not car building
Ouch... That one stings.

Probably not a good example but how about Boyd. I don't think he swings a hammer any more. :rolleyes:

[hotrdblder]

the point is, the autocross will have a affect on the smoy award whether you want it to or not, maybe you should of been there to talk it over with brett and others?? but you weren't so stop bitching and complaining that you'll never have a car that wins cause your latest build is a pro street car....not sm

[SN65]

This has become laughable! :hammer:

Does everyone realize that you are chasing a trophy, is this what this is all about, if not, heads are really getting to big.
Anyone who builds a car in an attempt to win a trophy is probably due for a big let down.

Car shows are a crap shoot at best. As I have said even the best car can loose.

I was interested in the rule change and the overall ramifications.

That was my initial interst, but now it has become somewhat personal. I have never said, or at least I cannot recall saying, anything derogitory toward Mr. HotRodBuilder. But he has made it his personal quest to smack me around. What am I supposed to do. Let him bitch slap me and walk away with my head bowed and a tear in my eye.

I don't think so.

Here is the last thing Mr HotRodBuilder said in regard to a thread I started...

"I have been dying to try out that structural foam in the A pillars and roof structure for a while now. I will be interested to see how easy it is to work with and the results.

I have also been toying with building a similar style of brace as your front shock tower brace except as a backbone on the center console. What I mean is leave the original sheetmetal there, and weld a tubular structure onto it to form a backbone from the firewall area to the backseat area. Have you considered this? I believe this will cut down on torsional deflection without intruding into the passenger compartment like a cage would. I would be interested to see how this would work.

I like the idea of the beefed up rocker panels for various reasons, the first being crash safety. A subframe connector does nothing to help you in the case of a side impact, but a beefed up rocker panel could very well minimize intrusion. It also as you have stated, ties into the structure of the body which is nice. It might be beneficial to beef the rockers up AND install subframe connectors in a car like a camaro or firebird where there is a subframe that bolts to the middle of a flat panel. Keep thinking outside the box!"


If I am correct, he was asking my opinion.

The next time I hear from him is this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkM66
Another, "look at me" thread. :bsjerk:

good call, add a jerk for me.

WTF...

OBTW, the roll cage as well as all the structural chassis modifications in the car is all my design and fabrication. I designed it. I cut the tube. I welded it up. I guess I can do a bit more than write a check.

[SN65]

SNIP....

but you weren't so stop bitching and complaining that you'll never have a car that wins cause your latest build is a pro street car....not sm
What kind of logic is this. Just because a car can turn 9's and has a "cage" does not make it a Pro-Street car. I have seen many PT cars with outrageous engines and full cages. How about Bobby Alloways Mustang. Twin turbo 4.6 liter. Gobs of HP and torque. A full frame, etc... It must be Pro-Street.

And, where is it writen that a Pro-Street car is not a Street Machine. Maybe I forgot to pick up my copy of Street Machine monthly where they dictate the true meaning of street machine.

Gezzzzz......

[BADVELLE]

Anyone who builds a car in an attempt to win a trophy is probably due for a big let down.

Car shows are a crap shoot at best. As I have said even the best car can loose.

I was interested in the rule change and the overall ramifications.

That was my initial interst, but now it has become somewhat personal. I have never said, or at least I cannot recall saying, anything derogitory toward Mr. HotRodBuilder. But he has made it his personal quest to smack me around. What am I supposed to do. Let him bitch slap me and walk away with my head bowed and a tear in my eye.

I don't think so.

Here is the last thing Mr HotRodBuilder said in regard to a thread I started...

"I have been dying to try out that structural foam in the A pillars and roof structure for a while now. I will be interested to see how easy it is to work with and the results.

I have also been toying with building a similar style of brace as your front shock tower brace except as a backbone on the center console. What I mean is leave the original sheetmetal there, and weld a tubular structure onto it to form a backbone from the firewall area to the backseat area. Have you considered this? I believe this will cut down on torsional deflection without intruding into the passenger compartment like a cage would. I would be interested to see how this would work.

I like the idea of the beefed up rocker panels for various reasons, the first being crash safety. A subframe connector does nothing to help you in the case of a side impact, but a beefed up rocker panel could very well minimize intrusion. It also as you have stated, ties into the structure of the body which is nice. It might be beneficial to beef the rockers up AND install subframe connectors in a car like a camaro or firebird where there is a subframe that bolts to the middle of a flat panel. Keep thinking outside the box!"


If I am correct, he was asking my opinion.

The next time I hear from him is this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkM66
Another, "look at me" thread. :bsjerk:

good call, add a jerk for me.

WTF...

OBTW, the roll cage as well as all the structural chassis modifications in the car is all my design and fabrication. I designed it. I cut the tube. I welded it up. I guess I can do a bit more than write a check.

My only point was that people seem to be upset about this award and that the autox will be some type of joke, probably so, who cares, there are a lot of brain cells and words being thrown at this one. I like the bantering back and forth, but now that it is getting personal, kind of takes the fun out of it. I like your mustang, along with the work that htrodblder does.

[onebad2]

lol, This is getting good!

P.S will only the top 5 cars have to run the autocross? they should make everyone....Just my thoughts.
a answer without drama would be great! lol

Paul

[SN65]

My only point was that people seem to be upset about this award and that the autox will be some type of joke, probably so, who cares, there are a lot of brain cells and words being thrown at this one. I like the bantering back and forth, but now that it is getting personal, kind of takes the fun out of it. I like your mustang, along with the work that htrodblder does.
Thanks for the kind words.

It takes a lot to push my buttons, and usually I am as diplomatic as the next guy, but HRB's comment (s) (along with a few others) was the straw that broke the proverbial camels back. I have been pushed to the edge and there is only one way for me to go.

Let the good times roll.

[SN65]

lol, This is getting good!

P.S will only the top 5 cars have to run the autocross? they should make everyone....Just my thoughts.
a answer without drama would be great! lol

Paul
Be carefull Paul, the answer and the drama come as a package deal.

I am not sure how they will do it. I would like to see it as a final 5 shootout. Much more drama (there is that damn word again) that way. If they have them run with the reat of the pack it will not have nearly as much suspense. Also, it would then become a mater of pride and the drivers would most likely push their cars a bit more than if they were just running at some random time.

[onebad2]

lol, I know...I know! lol

Yea, I think that would be pretty good way to do it. I just dunno where they are going to do all of this at....Then again. Do I want to ask anymore questions?...


Be carefull Paul, the answer and the drama come as a package deal.

I am not sure how they will do it. I would like to see it as a final 5 shootout. Much more drama (there is that damn word again) that way. If they have them run with the reat of the pack it will not have nearly as much suspense. Also, it would then become a mater of pride and the drivers would most likely push their cars a bit more than if they were just running at some random time.

[SN65]

Hummmm

All is quiet on the eastern front.

This cannot be good.

I am going to hunker down in the bunker and wait for the next volley.

I am going to be very very quiet. Maybe it won't start up again for a while and I can get some shut eye.

In the meantime, talk among yourselves.

[kennyd]

[quote=SN65]Interesting....

So, your saying that one of the cars that made it into the top five did not deserve it?



i will say that ! the bubbletop without a radiator hose should have been a top 5 !

[SN65]

[quote=SN65]Interesting....

So, your saying that one of the cars that made it into the top five did not deserve it?



i will say that ! the bubbletop without a radiator hose should have been a top 5 !
I did not see the car. From what I understand it was a very fine example.

With that being said, it could have been the niceset car there. Period. But that does not mean that it would have made the cut. Who knows what runs through the minds of the gudges. Who knows what floats their boat. The year before it was shoeboxes. 3 of them made it to the top 5. They were all excellent examples of the automotive art, but not what I would define as a street machine. Opps... I should not presume to make such a statement. Shoeboxes make excellent street machines. :)

This year it was all 60's era muscle cars.

So, what will it be next year. Your guess is as good as mine....

OBTW, do you think the Bubbletop would have won if it made it to the top five???

[Bill Howell]

[quote=kennyd]


OBTW, do you think the Bubbletop would have won if it made it to the top five???

IMO, no. It was a beautiful ride, but I have always thought that the Ring Bros. was the shoe in this year. Shame is, the Morrison Vette and DSE Camaro where the two that would be in contention if autocrossing were a factor.

[Ronald Winter]

If my camaro is ready for next year SMOY contest I will drive the car from New York to columbus- No trailer- Ron

[SN65]

If my camaro is ready for next year SMOY contest I will drive the car from New York to columbus- No trailer- Ron
Hi Ron,

I would agree to drive there, same as you, but if I did, that may be construed as being a post whore or the muted wines of an attention starved miscreant whose only desire in life is for all eyes in the room to look at me, me, me....

Also, I might not be able to come in that my car does not fit the definition of what SMOY is, might be, should be, as set by "some" of the other master craftsmen who frequent this site.

Other than that, I'm in. :bananna2:

[kennyd]

[quote=kennyd]
I did not see the car. From what I understand it was a very fine example.

With that being said, it could have been the niceset car there. Period. But that does not mean that it would have made the cut. Who knows what runs through the minds of the gudges. Who knows what floats their boat. The year before it was shoeboxes. 3 of them made it to the top 5. They were all excellent examples of the automotive art, but not what I would define as a street machine. Opps... I should not presume to make such a statement. Shoeboxes make excellent street machines. :)

This year it was all 60's era muscle cars.

So, what will it be next year. Your guess is as good as mine....

OBTW, do you think the Bubbletop would have won if it made it to the top five???



no it was not the top car , hands down troy's hurricayne , or alloways mustang .

i think the drive and test's of the car for next year is a load of crap ! what is it going to prove .... nothing ! other than the car will start and move . edit edit edit edit edit edit edit ( that is a statment i want to put here but i should not say here )
i dont have a problem with owners wanting to put there cars thru a autocourse , i did it at KC goodguys with my 57 6 time till it heated the power steering until it would not steer .

[Damn True]

If my camaro is ready for next year SMOY contest I will drive the car from New York to columbus- No trailer- Ron

But you'll screw up the wax job on your U-joints. Oh the HORROR!



So Kenny, this is not an attack at all, but I'd like to hear why you think that a potential contestant for an award named STREET MACHINE of the year. Should not be expected to run and drive with some measure of equanimity and alacrity? I don't think the intent is to see who can build the best looking CSP auto-x car, but to ensure that a car that may be crowned the STREET MACHINE of the year is capable of more than a .5mph fairgrounds crawl or worse yet, must be pushed into position.

After all, if the cars cant be run and driven they might as well call the award the "Superficial Hollow Shell With No Real Substance Of The Year". Or, Paris Hilton for short.

[onebad2]

IMO...Troy's hurricayne was not a Top 5 car....very cool build. But I didnt think it was as nice as a couple other cars that didnt make it...
Im not trying to start a debate here....lol

Next year should be a good year to get back a street machine winner.

[Ronald Winter]

yea but the ride will be worth it maybe if I run in a puddle real fast it will make it look clean

[kennyd]

If my camaro is ready for next year SMOY contest I will drive the car from New York to columbus- No trailer- Ron



ron ,
i really like the idea that you drive them , thats great for you .
i hate to drive them ! i dont like road rash , i dont like to have to worry about someone hitting it , i have crashed them bigtime , flew 30 ft from the car face down in the asphalt .
so i dont drive them to the show, but i dont trailer to the park .i will put miles on a car at the show ,to and from the show , to eat at night ,etc.

what i am trying to say is , you should not get xtra points for driving it or hauling it . i have seen cars that have been hauled that are crap and seen driven cars that are too nice to drive .


i am not sure if next year i will compete or not . i might be like some other builder that i know that boycot the pro's picks area because of the politics .

[SN65]

SNIP...

edit edit edit edit edit edit edit ( that is a statment i want to put here but i should not say here )

SNIP...
Hey Kenny, join the party. No need to edit your comments. Just say whatever you want. Who cares what effect it has on you or others.

Just bash whoever and then giggle amongst your friends. It helps to throw up some kind of profane icon to help emphasize the point.

Thats what I would do. Opps, my mistake, that wasn't me. That was someone else.

[Ronald Winter]

ron ,
i really like the idea that you drive them , thats great for you .
i hate to drive them ! i dont like road rash , i dont like to have to worry about someone hitting it , i have crashed them bigtime , flew 30 ft from the car face down in the asphalt .
so i dont drive them to the show, but i dont trailer to the park .i will put miles on a car at the show ,to and from the show , to eat at night ,etc.

what i am trying to say is , you should not get xtra points for driving it or hauling it . i have seen cars that have been hauled that are crap and seen driven cars that are too nice to drive .


i am not sure if next year i will compete or not . i might be like some other builder that i know that boycot the pro's picks area because of the politics .

I'm not saying your wrong for trailering I did it all year with my 32- for you as I builder It's different then for me I just think for me if I drive it there and don't win it's not as bad as if I didn't drive it and didn't win I have to say winning top five street rod was sorta anti-climatic.
don't hate me for saying that- but for you it helps your business grow show your amazing talent and I mean amazing! so It is different ,their is much more riding on it for you I understand! By the way How is that all natural body builder you have working for you Ron

[hotrdblder]

ron who is building your camaro?

[hotrdblder]

sn65 all i smell is depends, go design these mustangs and weld all the tube i am sure you did, you engineers are all the same, you guys can make anything happen...

[Ronald Winter]

ron who is building your camaro?


I have been doing the work to this point -disassembly and most of the mock up I may continue or pass on - but doing it myself is great fun hang quarters dse front and rear suspension wild small block fuel injection six speed dry sump the body is rust free 69

[hotrdblder]

I have been doing the work to this point -disassembly and most of the mock up I may continue or pass on - but doing it myself is great fun hang quarters dse front and rear suspension wild small block fuel injection six speed dry sump the body is rust free 69
cool, sounds really fun, please share progress sometime

[hotrdblder]

sn65 can have this thread, and his 9 sec non pro street car, ok, you mean to tell my a car with 35-40 series tires will run 9 secs, i highly doubt it.
goodluck, i am so odne wasting my time i have no idea why i wasted my time , sorry to the forum, guys have fun with sn65 posts

[SN65]

sn65 can have this thread, and his 9 sec non pro street car, ok, you mean to tell my a car with 35-40 series tires will run 9 secs, i highly doubt it.
goodluck, i am so odne wasting my time i have no idea why i wasted my time , sorry to the forum, guys have fun with sn65 posts
Just about what I expected.

I was trying to have a civil conversation within the bounds of this thread. You Mr. HotRodBuilder are the one who started making snide comments. Your first post, #43 was a backhanded bitchslap


your my new hero, take the chip off your shoulder and stop being jealous you have not won any big awards, its pretty apparent you need attention.

Where the hell did that come from??? What have I ever done to you??? You don't know me and I for sure don't know you.

So, follow your true form and take a couple of quick jabs, turn and slink away.

Sounds jealous to me. Maybe you need a little attention. It must be hard sitting there all alone. Working on your car all alone. Doing all the work all by yourself.

As far as you "waisting your time", you did it because you were trying to defend your actions. I guess I can't fault you there. A person has to stand up for what he thinks is right. But your actions and comments here have been nothing but abrasive. Your comments on another thread got that thread locked. Pretty hard to do on any forum. When was the last time that happened here.

Funny thing is, I tried to ignor it when it was happening. Yeah, when I read the comments, it stung a bit, but I felt it was best to let it run it's course and move on.

But I guess there was no letting it go for you. Nope. You just had to drag your personal comments and agendas into this conversation. I tried to be nice, but there was no being nice for you was there.

So is this the end of this little confrontation? Maybe. Who is the winner here? Nobody. What has anybody gained? Nothing.

[hotrdblder]

thanks nice write up, way to break it down, are you a therapist also? there have been many who are sick of your posts, many many more then you think, i just am one of few who post, don't believe me?? do a poll about who is sick of hearing of sn65 the car, the only time you come around is about your car, and the funny thing is i am only bitchslapping you, no one else here, why?? because i am sick and tired of your ****ing threads about sn65.
rather then all your record setting builds you do and post about why not stick around here and help out others who may want to do something similer with there mustang? but no you are here when you want people to talk about sn65, why not do a post history n yourself.
have a nice day...

[SN65]

SNIP...

i am not sure if next year i will compete or not . i might be like some other builder that i know that boycot the pro's picks area because of the politics .
Not showing because of car show politics would be a shame. You spend a lot of time and effort on your ride and you deserve to have a little fun.

Meeting up with old freinds. Displaying your car, talking to other's about their cars, driving around town (to diner and cruise nights)seeing new and innovative things. Those are the fun things a car show has to offer.

There are always going to be "politics" at a car show. There always has been and there always will be. From the smallest local car show to the biggest national event. It is just the way it is.

Is there something specific you are refering to?

[kennyd]

But you'll screw up the wax job on your U-joints. Oh the HORROR!



So Kenny, this is not an attack at all, but I'd like to hear why you think that a potential contestant for an award named STREET MACHINE of the year. Should not be expected to run and drive with some measure of equanimity and alacrity? I don't think the intent is to see who can build the best looking CSP auto-x car, but to ensure that a car that may be crowned the STREET MACHINE of the year is capable of more than a .5mph fairgrounds crawl or worse yet, must be pushed into position.

After all, if the cars cant be run and driven they might as well call the award the "Superficial Hollow Shell With No Real Substance Of The Year". Or, Paris Hilton for short.


sorry i did not see this yesterday .
i love the paris hilton award. i have seen some of these cars at shows,and know some builders that have these cars .


my reason is , this event is not about the " race car, hard driven ,it has been about the " bobby alloway " style car . as prodigy says .
i dont want to see this award start going to cars with rock chips , scratches because of being driven hard , unless the owner wants to drive it like that . i dont think someone else should tell the owner or builder how he should drive the car . i just dont think it will prove anything because you will have builders that will drive the **** out of them and builder that will not push it hard because of chips or damage .
i can say i have seen the last 5 or 6 streetmachine of the year cars on the street , except the ring mustang . i am not knocking the mustang i just have not seen it on the road .

[kennyd]

I'm not saying your wrong for trailering I did it all year with my 32- for you as I builder It's different then for me I just think for me if I drive it there and don't win it's not as bad as if I didn't drive it and didn't win I have to say winning top five street rod was sorta anti-climatic.
don't hate me for saying that- but for you it helps your business grow show your amazing talent and I mean amazing! so It is different ,their is much more riding on it for you I understand! By the way How is that all natural body builder you have working for you Ron


thanks ron ,

travis is still getting bigger , i am going to make him stop body building because i cant jack up the cars high enough to get his chest under the car to work on them .

[Roger Poirier]

SN 65,

I love the way you defend yourself! :bicycle: Don't let these kids push you around. IMO this whole GGC is a joke. :screwy: It's who you are and who you know. Plain and simple. It is an ego trip for the top name builders.

My idea of a winner is more in line with what you have created in the mustang. To each his own that's what makes a horse race. Just enjoy the type of work that you do and be thankful life is different each and every day.

R.P.

[SN65]

thanks nice write up, way to break it down, are you a therapist also? there have been many who are sick of your posts, many many more then you think, i just am one of few who post, don't believe me?? do a poll about who is sick of hearing of sn65 the car, the only time you come around is about your car, and the funny thing is i am only bitchslapping you, no one else here, why?? because i am sick and tired of your ****ing threads about sn65.
rather then all your record setting builds you do and post about why not stick around here and help out others who may want to do something similer with there mustang? but no you are here when you want people to talk about sn65, why not do a post history n yourself.
have a nice day...
Sorry....

The last two threads I have started are the one about sub-frame connectors (10-5-2006) in the suspension tech section and the now infamous "Kink" thread.

I think that the sup-frame connector thread is something helpful and useful to anyone building a unibody car. I presented theory and practical solutions to resolve some of the most common unibody problems. So far that thread has about 80 posts and 3,700 views and has been made into a sticky so that all can benefit from the conversation. I am finishing up the study and have more tech and images coming, but apparently that earns me no credit with you or the many, many more you refer to.

That is how I am helpful. You are right, I do not comment on the typical problems that people come across in their builds. Basically, I am a Ford and Mustang guy. Not much help to those building Chevys and Mopars. There are a ton of people at this site who are more qualified to comment. Also, I am not going to be much help to any who are bolting on any XYZ aftermarket component. I have zero experiance with such things.

I am a school-of-hard-knocks engineer. I tend to "help" by showing others what it is that I have done. Is there a certain degree of "look at what I have done" in what I say. Yes there is. But there is no lack of that on this or any forum. AND you totally, totally misinterpret my intention. Yes I want people to "look at what I have done" but not for a slap on the back or any OOOOHHHH that’s cool comments. I want constructive criticism. I want people to see what I have done and comment on its strengths and weaknesses. It is that exchange that helps ALL concerned. It is that exchange that sparks the creative ideas in all of us. Makes everyone "think outside the box" to quote someone I respected once apon a time.

Why don't you try it? Start a thread about something that you are trying to improve. Something that you are changing. Something you wish was better. It is easy. Just hit the button. Establish your goals, come up with a plan and show people what you are doing. Make sure you measure the before and after to quantify the results.

Or start a thread in the project section showing people what you are doing and how you are doing it. Take pictures. Show people every step. Explain what you are doing and why. Answer all the questions that come along the way. It’s easy. I don't know why you haven't done it yet.

In addition to throwing out a random comment every 3 days. Set an example. Start with your current project. Maybe you can show us all something interesting, something creative, something different.

But then again, when you are done, someone will thank you by bitchslapping you the first chance they get.

Have a nice day....

[SN65]

SN 65,

I love the way you defend yourself! :bicycle: Don't let these kids push you around. IMO this whole GGC is a joke. :screwy: It's who you are and who you know. Plain and simple. It is an ego trip for the top name builders.

My idea of a winner is more in line with what you have created in the mustang. To each his own that's what makes a horse race. Just enjoy the type of work that you do and be thankful life is different each and every day.

R.P.
Hi Roger,

Thanks for the kind words.

In certain ways you are right about the major awards. To the big name builder it is an ego boost, but to the little guy, it is a tremendous opportunity. Little guy from little shop does the big dogs one better. It is the whole David and Golliath thing that sucks me in. The Ring Brothers are on the rise and I am happy for them. They were once David and now they are Golliath. Who will be the next to knock the big names off the perch.

I will be there next year, but the car we are building is not the type that usually wins these things. But that is our evil plan. Be different. Build the car you want. Take a chance along the way.

Go with antisipation and hope. Come away dissapointed. Learn from your mistakes. Come up with another plan and try again.

Being a Cubs fan, I am used to dissapointment. And as they say in Chicago, there is always next year.

[Roger Poirier]

Being a Cubs fan, I am used to dissapointment. And as they say in Chicago, there is always next year.
That's what we say about the Detroit Lions too. :lol:

[SN65]

That's what we say about the Detroit Lions too. :lol:
Sorry Roger, I feel your pain, I think that you and the Lions may be in for another hard one this year....

[Damn True]

sorry i did not see this yesterday .
i love the paris hilton award. i have seen some of these cars at shows,and know some builders that have these cars .


my reason is , this event is not about the " race car, hard driven ,it has been about the " bobby alloway " style car . as prodigy says .
i dont want to see this award start going to cars with rock chips , scratches because of being driven hard , unless the owner wants to drive it like that . i dont think someone else should tell the owner or builder how he should drive the car . i just dont think it will prove anything because you will have builders that will drive the **** out of them and builder that will not push it hard because of chips or damage .
i can say i have seen the last 5 or 6 streetmachine of the year cars on the street , except the ring mustang . i am not knocking the mustang i just have not seen it on the road .


I understand your POV, but I still disagree. I think it's important that a car that is to be deemed "Street Machine of the Year" be a REAL completely functional vehicle. Otherwise there is little difference between a "show-car" and the non funtional concept cars seen at Cobo Hall.

[SN65]

I understand your POV, but I still disagree. I think it's important that a car that is to be deemed "Street Machine of the Year" be a REAL completely functional vehicle. Otherwise there is little difference between a "show-car" and the non funtional concept cars seen at Cobo Hall.
The Autorama cars are another issue in and of themselves. First and foremost they must function to the level that they are designed and built to. If a car looks like a high performance vehicle and has all the components of a high performance vehicle it had better be a high performance vehicle.

Being a full scale model car built to the standards of a jewel incrusted Tiffany egg may be cool to look at, but if it was not properly engineered and built to do what it presents itself capable of, then the entire build was a waste of time and effort.

I am not saying that you have to flog them to death to prove it, but if, on an off chance, someone did fire one of these show pieces up. It had better be one hell of a thrill ride.

[kennyd]

I understand your POV, but I still disagree. I think it's important that a car that is to be deemed "Street Machine of the Year" be a REAL completely functional vehicle. Otherwise there is little difference between a "show-car" and the non funtional concept cars seen at Cobo Hall.




i also see your point , different views .
i am out of here , till next week .

[J-Rod]

I still think they should bring in The Stig to drive everyones cars.

[MarkM66]

I still think they should bring in The Stig to drive everyones cars.

Now you're talking!!!!

[novanutcase]

I understand your POV, but I still disagree. I think it's important that a car that is to be deemed "Street Machine of the Year" be a REAL completely functional vehicle. Otherwise there is little difference between a "show-car" and the non funtional concept cars seen at Cobo Hall.



The Autorama cars are another issue in and of themselves. First and foremost they must function to the level that they are designed and built to. If a car looks like a high performance vehicle and has all the components of a high performance vehicle it had better be a high performance vehicle.

Being a full scale model car built to the standards of a jewel incrusted Tiffany egg may be cool to look at, but if it was not properly engineered and built to do what it presents itself capable of, then the entire build was a waste of time and effort.

I am not saying that you have to flog them to death to prove it, but if, on an off chance, someone did fire one of these show pieces up. It had better be one hell of a thrill ride.

Not trying to be argumentative but what would you consider a benchmark that would decide what is a "Street Machine" and what is a "Full scale model car built to the standards of a jewel incrusted Tiffany egg"?

John

[SN65]

Not trying to be argumentative but what would you consider a benchmark that would decide what is a "Street Machine" and what is a "Full scale model car built to the standards of a jewel incrusted Tiffany egg"?

John
Hi John,

Personally, I really feel that the trend for all these "major" awards is shifting to more and more eye candy with less and less overall performance.

Personally I think that the car should perform first and look pretty second. Form should follow function.

I always thought that the G-force Cuda could have been the best of both worlds. Invest a bit more into riddler quality detaling and the car could have taken it all. Riddler, SMOY, everything.

But, what do I know. I am still trying to finish my second custom car and I have only been in the hobby for about two years now.

Live and learn.

[ProTouring442]

You know, I’m not sure I get this group anymore. First we get this post:



Starting next year at Goodguys in Columbus, those up for contention for the Street Machine of the Year will have to compete in an autocross course, an acceleration test, and a braking test. This was announced at last nights awards banquet where the Ring Brothers mustang won Street Machine of the Year. This should make the contest even better. I'm already looking forward to it.

Followed by:




As this is Street Machine of the year, I think the changes they plan on implementing are great; they should've done so sooner.

My only question is: will the vehicles performance reflect their position in the competition? I.e. Do all the cars just have to run the tests, and receive a "pass", or will they actually be ranked, based on their times / positions, etc.

And then:



I can't see them makeing guys and girls taking their $200,000.00 plus cars and telling them ok go beat the Bleep out of it. If thats the case Bob Johnson will win every year Not saying there isn't anyone else that wouldn't do it, just saying I'm sure that it will be a dog and pony show. Not a ranking of whos the best at each event. But I could be wrong

And:



no one said they had to win the event just enter and complete the event.

So this guy says:



Well, I'm sorry, but that is just sad.

Anyone can putt around an autocross. In what way, shape or form does driving the car through an autocross add to the competition or prove anything. I thought that this award was supposed to be somewhat performance orientated.

I can see it now…

John Doe shows up in a really breathtaking car. The fit and finish are exceptional and the paint is beyond compare. John says “We built this car to be the meanest street machine around. We make about 1,200 HP from our twin turbo big block. We built a custom tube chassis that we fit up with some of the finest bolt on suspension components available. We should easily do low 9’s, if not 8's, in the quarter mile.” He hops in the car and does one of the meanest burnouts ever and drives away as the favorite to win SMOY. The next day at the autocross event, he slides all over the track in a car that hopelessly spins it’s wheels, even at moderate acceleration and then, when he does get it to finally move, plows through the corners worse than an International Harvester box truck. After turning in the slowest time of the day he proclaims that it was his tires fault. If he has a good set of track tires he would have done much better. At the braking test the car is over biased to the rear and his front left caliper binds. He comes to a stop sitting sideways on the track about 25 feet past the rest of the pack. At the acceleration test he finally gets the rear to bite, but he drops his drive shaft and barely coasts over the finish line.

The next day he walks away with the SMOY award. After all, he did compete and finish.

And we get:



your my new hero, take the chip off your shoulder and stop being jealous you have not won any big awards, its pretty apparent you need attention.

And:



sn65 all i smell is depends, go design these mustangs and weld all the tube i am sure you did, you engineers are all the same, you guys can make anything happen...

Come on guys, lighten up! This place is starting to stink like that campfire in Blazing Saddles, only worse!

By the way, I have learned in my short lifetime that the one who slings a personal insult first usually does so because he had little ground on which to stand in the first place. Reread this entire thread and I think you may see what I am talking about.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Damn True]

I suppose it comes down to weather or not you agree with this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXU3N9wT3u0

[ironworks]

Ok change of plans, Next year when I drive out to Columbus for the Goodguys show, instead of entering the 2 cars I'm towing out there in the show, I'm gonna enter my dually, it has plenty of power, I drove it the whole way with a 48ft trailer in tow and it has dog hair on the back seat from my dog. It may not be the fastest through the kink, but it is will kick ass in the tractor pull competition. And Tracy is gonna make me some matching mud flapps and floormats.

All I have to say is beware of the dually, bitches.

[novanutcase]

HAHAHAHA!!! LOL!!!

Dude! I love cruising around in that beast!!! Especially after a couple Cadillac Margaritas. Casa Munoz!:headbang:

I agree! I still haven't really heard of the benchmark that I asked for previously! Again, not trying to be argumentative, but how do the judges know when the performance benchmark has been hit to deem the car "Street Machine" worthy? Also, that benchmark will have to be defined as X feet for stopping, X time in the 60 and 1/4, X lap time on the track, etc. Who will decide this?

John

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

Bill,

You had me quoted as saying this:



can't see them makeing guys and girls taking their $200,000.00 plus cars and telling them ok go beat the Bleep out of it. If thats the case Bob Johnson will win every year Not saying there isn't anyone else that wouldn't do it, just saying I'm sure that it will be a dog and pony show. Not a ranking of whos the best at each event. But I could be wrong


This was not my quote, so I removed my name from it. No worries, just letting ya know why I edited your post.

[ProTouring442]

Bill,

You had me quoted as saying this:



This was not my quote, so I removed my name from it. No worries, just letting ya know why I edited your post.

No problem! My cut and paste skills aren't always what they should be. Maybe I should have paid more attention in kindergarten? :jump:

Shiny Side Up!
Bill