Cheap 2nd gen firebird front end triangulation

[Jeremy]

I was on a mustang site where they sold braces to triangulate the opening in the core support in front of the radiator. It was supposed to increase front end rigidity.

Since I have solid bushings on my core support I thought something similar may help. I also thought it might make a pretty big difference since it would be so far forward and tall. In looking at the front of the core support, I found that the upper AC condensor mounts would catch the top outside corners and the center brace behind the nose would get the lower, center.

I grabbed my old fender braces and they fit perfectly. I put the non slotted ends at the top AC condensor mount location using grade 8 5/16 bolts. Even with the battery and all the AC lines in place, it was pretty easy to get to both sides of the core support. The lower slotted end of the brace just barely caught the hole at the bottom of the center brace that is already present for the spoiler mount. The left side thus went pretty quick.

For the right side I had to drill a 5/16 hole in the center brace opposite the factory hole. With a right angle drill this wasn't too difficult. Without one I don't think you could do it with the center brace on the car.

Bottom line, it took me about 30 minutes to bolt everything up including drilling the hole.

I went for a drive and the difference was pretty significant. The decrease in rattle was immediately noticed as was the lack of the roof popping over driveway cuts.

At speeds over 30 mph turn in was drastically improved. The car felt really solid.

If you have some extra late 2nd gen firebird/TA fender braces and some time, it is a pretty easy upgrade with little weight penalty. I had updated to the aluminum braces sold by WFO leaving me the extra braces.

[formula]

I'm ac condensor-less, so could you post some shots so I can see if I can figure out a way to make this work on a non-ac car?

[Jeremy]

It shouldn't matter as the core support should be the same. Look just outside the top, upper corners of the radiator opening. You should find a 5/16 hole, speed nut, or something to take a 5/16 body bolt. Mine were just 5/16 holes but who knows if that is original.

What you are looking for is the holes that mount the AC condensor in front of the radiator. I'll see if I can get some pics tomorrow, but it might be too tight for my camera. You can just barely see the supports.

It might be the easiest to find the holes on the motor side. They should be right under the top plate about 1/2 inch from the top of the tank.

[WS6]

Good info Jeremy. If you look at the front of our cars, you realize that the core support carries so much weight and is such an integral part of the structure. I'm willing to bet that if you triangulate the core support to the front sub frame it will work well. I would also suggest running a bar from one frame rail to the next in the front. This would make what is know as a wonderbar to the 3rd gen guys for a 2nd gen. Pro-touringf-body.com sells something similar.

[Jeremy]

I actually did that first and welded bars from it to the crossmember triangulating everything. It actually made less of a difference than bracing across the core support. I would guess it is due to the greater leverage the core support can generate.

[David Pozzi]

Jeremy, Good idea, I think you are on the right track!
David

[Lowend]

pics please

[dcozzi]

Yes, pics please!

[Jeremy]

I tried today in the garage and couldn't get enough of an angle or light in there.

I'll try again in bright sunlight.

I did look at a 78 yesterday and it doesn't have the same lower hole as a 79 does. You would have to drill two holes but still pretty easy.

[dsapper]

sorry to bump an older thread but could you please post pictures, I love my camaro but I'm out to kill the flexbody monster!!

[Jeremy]

I'll try pics again this weekend and see if they show anything.

Camaro may be a bit different due to a different core support.

Some other things I have done to stiffen up the f body:

Solid body bushings, SFC's, Front structure braces from pro touring f body.com, 1 3/4 square tubes welded under rockers and back to frame/SFC's, 1x1 square tube welded across front frame rails underneath core support.

[Skip Fix]

Pro touring F body has copies of the old Herb Adams supports from the firewall to the front A arm pickups.
The older (pre 76 I believe) Firebirds had a much beefier fender to radiator support brace than the later 1" stamped ones. Larry at WFO Performance has some copies in aluminum.

Since the factory (Pontiacs) went to a smaller stamped steel even when the had lower A arm braces I would think the may not be as important as the Herb Adams type.

[bbnova]

:postpics:



Please?

[Jeremy]

Please be patient. I promise I will get some this weekend when I am off work.

[79T/Aman]

well the fender braces are more to help suport the heavy pre 77 front bumpers, the G-braces are made to keep the flexing of the body to the frame under control, although keeping the steel fenders, iner fender wells and forward braces do add overall stiffness to the front end

[formula]

I'm still having trouble understanding where we're even talking about mounting these....if you could even just do a quickie paint drawing to act as a visual aid, the pics might not be necessary...

sorry to be such a bother, it just sounds like a sweetass idea that would be super-easy.

[TD509EFI]

I must be missing it as well, since my '79 Z already has cross braces in front of the rad support.

John

[JMarsa]

I think he's either describing an X in front of the radiator opening or diagonal braces on either side of the opening to stop and side to side movement of the front clip.

--JMarsa

[79T/Aman]

70-76 firebireds have long heavy steel plates that tie the front fenders to the front bumpers/core support, the Camaro did not need these as their front bumper were much lighter but in 77 the birds got a more modern light weight bumper and the OEM was able to start using the Camaro style support, now our G-braces triangulat the frame to the body .

[Jeremy]

Here are the best pics I can get without removing the nose. The first shows the lower mounts where both bars come together.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010256li2.jpg)

The next show the upper right and left mounting points.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010257zb9.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010258xg1.jpg)

The last pic shows my version of a wonderbar. This is the prototype and the final one will be built with a 1 3/4 square tube and 1 inch round struts that are flattened on the end under the cross member. It should look better and the round struts should be stiffer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010259mf4.jpg)

[68Formula]

:yeah:

[maldo]

:cool: