Ford engine decision.........large or small?

[quickcat]

I have a 68 Cougar with a 429 big block and C-6 auto. I have enjoyed the effortless power that the big block has but I have always had cooling troubles ( I think I am close to solving), header fit issues, and other various problems that could be fixed with enough diligence. Lately I have been reconsidering the merits of my big engine especially since I want to vastly improve the car's handling and breaking.

The decision:

Stay with the big block and lighten it enough to get the handling I am after?

OR

Shall I build up a small block?

I am considering building a 302 stroker with EFI.

Of course I want to ditch the auto trans in favor of a manual on either engine. I am figuring things will be cheaper with a small block even if I have to buy the engine to start with.

I would like to be in the 400-500 HP range for this car. No blowers.


I would appreciate your opinions and guidance.

Matt

[Goatman]

Not even a question in my opinion. The Ford small block is the best engine they've ever made by a long, long shot..


If I were going to build anything, it would be based off either the 302 (for a forced induction application) or a 351 for NA....

[andrewb70]

Personally I would not stroke a 302. the 3inch stroke and 4 inch bore makes for a sweet running engine.

Andrew

[wiedemab]

Personally I would not stroke a 302. the 3inch stroke and 4 inch bore makes for a sweet running engine.

Andrew

Agreed - I'm not making 400-500hp, but my little mustang made 361hp. I beat the hell out it every chance I get. It doesn't get hot, you can idle around in traffic. It's just a 306 with some goodies, fuel injected with an SCT chip and a dyno tune. You gotta love how small a 302 is too!

Brandon

[quickcat]

I have heard that the 302 stroked out to 331 is a good bore/stroke combination. Is there any known truth to this?

[Goatman]

For a turbo, that's as good as it gets....

[quickcat]

Turbo huh......sounds expensive.

Is that what it takes to get 450 horse from a 302? (or 302 based stroker)

I am not sure if I want to do a 351. I am intrigued by working out a nasty 331 or 347 with no blower or spray. I just don't want to end up with another 5.0 eihter.

Isn't the 302,331,347 about the cheapest going right now too?

Matt

[RSX302]

Turbo huh......sounds expensive.

Is that what it takes to get 450 horse from a 302? (or 302 based stroker)

Matt

You can get 450hp+ out of a N/A 302,331,347, but that’s a little radical for a daily street driver. If you what 450hp from a mild drive all day 302,331,347 then yes 5-10 psig of boost is the way you will want to go. Doesn't necessarily need to be a turbo but it will net you approx 50 more hp. Kenne Bell makes a nice kit that will roast any tire you put behind it. 302's turn into a Big Block in a hurry. I had 400 rwtq at 3200rpm with the one I had. Bone stock with GT40 heads.

[MonzaRacer]

Whoa whoa whoa ! Wait just a minute.
first of all Quick Cat give Evan Cooling a call and order up some NPG-R . Yes its expesnsive but it will cure all your ills if you up grade your rad and pay attention to thier instructions.
This stuff even at 40 bucks a gallon is cheaper than a custom aluminum radiator.
It boils at 375 degrees with no pressure cap !
But as for keeping it cool a decent water pump, good thermostat and cap and a recovery tank and you cant go wrong.
AS for the small block 302. Ohiocrank.com can set you up with a 4340 3.4 stroke and rods, pistons,,,even balancing.
I got a blem crank for $275, yeah 010/010 but its ok and will run great. We just arent going to (this is for my nephews project)use dished pistons (use them if you intend to boost). We are going to use either AFR or World aluminum heads and a custom cam and it will run great.
BUT if the BB is stock or atleast in thier and running then you can just freshen it up, get an overdrive trans and aluminum heads and have fun.
If you dont think the little SBF will cut it get a stroker crank for a 351W and build a 400+ cubes too.
Good luck
Lee Abel
AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

[quickcat]

BUT if the BB is stock or atleast in thier and running then you can just freshen it up, get an overdrive trans and aluminum heads and have fun.

It is not stock at all and actually it runs great! Although I would like to get some aluminum heads, different cam and a different set of pistons. It is just so damn heavy. My car currently has a 60/40 weight distribution. Aluminum heads alone will not fix it. Besides the heads and some other things are so expensive I may never be able to finish my project.

Thanks for the small block info......I will check Ohiocrank.com out.

Matt

[fast Ed]

My suggestion for a lighter NA engine would be a stroker 351W with AFR heads. Go up to 393 CID, AFR 185 heads, good cam and intake will get you in the 450 hp range.


cheers
Ed N.

[quickcat]

Ed,

How does your's run with the 289? What mods besides EFI do you have?
Matt

[My427stang]

I dont know, stroke it to 460 for a cheap and it'll make 400 without breathing hard.

Spend a little more and think 600 hp.

I am very pro-big block. I run big FEs but a buddy just did a mild alum headed 460 in a 4 speed 73 Mach and it flies, but idles like a *****cat

[RSX302]

If I'm not reading into this wrong- quickcat is looking to reduce front end weight. Unless you make everything about a big block all aluminum (or even a 351) , it won't be near as light as a blown little 302.
Don't get me wrong...I would love to have a complete aluminum BB. Big Bucks:bananna2:

Oh and also I know quickcat said no blowers, but there will need to be give and take with any set-up. After driving around a big block, I doubt you will be happy with a N/A 302,331 power. That's why I suggested a positive displacement roots,screw type compressor. That will make the little 302 wake up like a BB.

[My427stang]

A 385 series BBF is a heavy beast, they do OK with alum heads, but I agree if he wants to go real light it wont do it.

Of course come to the dark side with an alum FE.........

If you indeed seriously want to shed a lot of weight, I'd go stroker SB or even a windsor and all the alum you can find, but for sheer power, lighten the heck out of the 429 and stroke it ;)

[steemin]

I have a Ford Racing Performance Products 347 c.i.crate engine in my car. The motor is rated at 450Hp.at the crank.
My Car dynoed 382 RWHP. I am very pleased with this combination. Very good street manners.
Scott

[quickcat]

I dont know, stroke it to 460 for a cheap and it'll make 400 without breathing hard.

It makes about 400 right now as a 429, and runs great! It is a blast to drive.......in a straight line for short periods. I cannot afford the diet it needs to get some balance back to the car. (it needs to loose about 400 lbs in the front or move about 150 to the rear) I love the big block power and will miss it, but it brings a lot of issues that can only be overcome by large ammounts of money. I thought I might be able to make it all work by making stuff myself and making lots of money at work but it is not working out.....the car just sits.


I have a Ford Racing Performance Products 347 c.i.crate engine in my car. The motor is rated at 450Hp.at the crank.

I will have to look into the specs on that engine. It sounds good. I suppose I could build the eqiuvalent. Are you carb or EFI?


Matt

[RSX302]

It makes about 400 right now as a 429, and runs great! It is a blast to drive.......in a straight line for short periods. I cannot afford the diet it needs to get some balance back to the car. (it needs to loose about 400 lbs in the front or move about 150 to the rear) I love the big block power and will miss it, but it brings a lot of issues that can only be overcome by large ammounts of money. I thought I might be able to make it all work by making stuff myself and making lots of money at work but it is not working out.....the car just sits.


Matt

Just remember that the 429 at 400hp probably makes 500+ft/lbs between 2-4Krpm. (were you normally drive) This is why your having so much fun with it as you say "in a straight line for short periods". Decisions, Decisions.

[quickcat]

Decisions, Decisions.

I know...this is not an easy thing.


That's why I suggested a positive displacement roots,screw type compressor. That will make the little 302 wake up like a BB.

I know what you are saying here too. I used to have a Thunderbird SC. What a fun car that was. It pulled almost as good as my Vette does.

I have a lot to think about.

[fast Ed]

Ed,

How does your's run with the 289? What mods besides EFI do you have?
Matt

Thought I had replied to this yesterday ... the EFI is nice on the old engine, good throttle response and drivability. Other engine mods include a set of blue Taylor plug wires. :)

Seriously, it's just an old P.O.S. engine with the EFI thrown on, because I had the system, and the ability to get it on there (with some help of course).


cheers
Ed N.

[RSX302]

I know what you are saying here too. I used to have a Thunderbird SC. What a fun car that was. It pulled almost as good as my Vette does.

I had an 89 SC T-Bird as well. The little Roots Blower V6 and some light mods would slightly pull a stock GT Mustang. The T-Bird was 1000lbs heavier too. I agree Fun Car!