New Subframe formy 79' T/A

[79birdman]

I am seriously considering buying a new sub-frame for my 79' TA. The reasons that I want to purchase a new one is to save weight, add strength, and most importantly to have a power rack and pinion. The sub-frame that I have isn't rusted or bent in any way, if just weighs a ton and i can't fit rack and pinion on with out doing major modifications to it.

I know that there are a few different companies out there that make sub-frames for my car, but none of them have all of the things i want. The closest one to what I want is probably the one on jimmeyerracing.com (http://www.jimmeyerracing.com). I do like the fully adjustable trans cross-member, the extra bracing, the adjustable coil-over mount bracket, and of course the power rack and pinion. The only things that I don't like are the fact that I can't use stock style a-arms, spindles/brakes or sway bar. Oh, did I mention the price too, 8k is a little more than I want to spend. I had thought about buying a new sub-frame and modifying it, but i don't want to tear up something that I spent that much money on.

In summary all I want to buy is a new frame that:
-has extra supports
-I can bolt stock style a-arms and sway bar to
-has power rack and pinion
-adjustable coil-over mounts
-uses stock placement for engine mounts
-Doesn't cost me an arm and a couple of toes.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
-Rob

[lcsbird]

I have a 1974 Firebird and I'm also looking into an aftermarket subframe. What are other places you have found that make them.
Also I was wondering if anybody knew of an irs conversion kit for my car. Any help would be appreciated.

[dipren443]

I have a 1974 Firebird and I'm also looking into an aftermarket subframe. What are other places you have found that make them.
Also I was wondering if anybody knew of an irs conversion kit for my car. Any help would be appreciated.

No kits out there yet. Wayne Due was selling a C4 kit for first gens before he closed shop and 21st Century Street Machines is selling a C5 kit for 1st gens as well, but as far as I know, there aren't any IRS kits for our 2nd Gen's out there yet. All custom work if you must have one. I am leaning towards an Alston G bar 4 link setup myself.

[79birdman]

I have found a few companies that make new sub-frames. They all use rack and pinion steering, and have tubular A-arms. Parts in bold are ideas that I really like.

1. http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/cm1.html - Very nice design

Up sides:
- Tube A-arms, 1" upper 1 ¼" lower
- Body mounts, core support, bumper bracket mounts, engine/trans mounts
- GM, Baer, or Wilwood Disc Brakes Option
- QA1 adjustable coil-over shocks or AirRide Tech. Shockwave Bags
- 2x4 box tube construction
- Tubular structural supports
- 1" dia. anti-sway bar
- multi-position trans mount

Down sides:
- Spherical bearings on the a-arms (I personally don't like these anywhere on sub-frames due to the fact that they are hard to maintain and if they get dirt on them they may need to be replaced. IMO these don't belong on a street car.)
- No stock style suspension parts are used (The only reason that I don't like this is because replacement parts have to be bought from the manufacture or custom fabbed.)
- And last but certainly not last, is the price. ($6,500 is not a great place to start before adding any upgrades, like brakes.)


2. http://smithracecraft.com/70_81_camaro/C1FHC.html - completely tubular design (Great for drag racing or competitive street)

Up Sides:
- 4130 Chrome-Moly or Mild Steel
- AFCO Adjustable Coil Over Shocks
- Aluminum Body Mounts
- Billet Steering Arm
- 150lbs Less Than Stock
- Frame to Firewall bolt-in Kit
- Massive header & oil pan clearance
- Powder Coating
- Steering Kit with U-Joints
- Tubular Transmission Cross Member
- Uses Stock style A-arms

Down Sides:
- Doesn't use stock motor mount placing
- Can't use A/C with this sub-frame

3. http://www.fatmanfab.com/catalogpage.php?page=27 (Don't know too much about this sub-frame, but looks like a good set up to me. However I have heard that the owner is a pain to work with.)

Up Sides:
- Uses Stock motor mount placing
- Comes with spindles and brakes
- Uses stock style upper a-arm mounting (I think)
- Coil over set up

Down Sides:
- doesn't use all stock a-arm mounting points (I think)

I don't know enough about this sub-frame to fully critique it.

There is one more sub-frame that will work on the 70-81 firebirds/camaros, but I have only heard negative things about it, and I can't even remember what company makes it. The only reason that I think people buy it is because the price is the lowest. I have read people's posts on these forums that regret buying it.

Wow... my hand is starting to cramp. I hope that my insight/opinion may help you think about what you really want before you just go out and throw away money.

[dipren443]

I have had some preliminary discussions with 21st Century Street Machines. They showed some interest in making a 2nd Gen C5 subframe, but wanted to get several SOLID commitments before doing so. This was a little over a year ago, so I have absolutely no clue if they have changed their position on this or not. After some long exhautive discussions I have had with SC & C and Lateral Dynamics, I have pretty much scrapped the idea of an aftermarket subframe. The stock one can be made to work quite well. It may not be as aesthetically pleasing, but it will work. If you have your mind set on cleaning up the front and running a rack and pinion is the way to go.

For a fraction of the cost though, you can do alot of work to the original one. ATS should be offering the AFX spindle for our cars very soon as SC&C just finished up the steering arm design. There is no shortage of upper and lower control arms available for us. In the end, it is all what you want with the project.

[Takid455]

Before Wayne Due close shop, I spoke with him about his set up and his seemed to be the best out there, even today. as far as weight is concerned, the after market frames and the stock frames (no components) are about the same. the gains were rack and oinion, which a good box and linkage can be similar, cambered control arm mounts and the used of corvette arms. his were 2900 complete. that wasnt bad. for 6500, a set of GW arms(1300 , coil overs of your choice and a agr box will perform very well. the one draw back a stock frame has is that wide tires will hit it in the turns. this can be fix w/ a saw or torch.

[ks71z28]

Dave at Pro-touringf-body.com has a frame in the works. I believe he has Alston help engineer and manufacture his stuff. A year ago he said it was close, give him a buzz and see where he is at

Keith

[79T/Aman]

yes we do have a frame that is almost done and it meets all the criterias that you are looking for except for the rack and pinion steering we did have a lot of do and re-do on this frame to get thing the way I wanted it, the reason I went with the standard steering is that the stock with is retained and still uses stock offset wheels that have a fair amount of scrub radius and is not well suited to work with a rack and it cuts cost because a customer can just reuse anll their steering gear as well as sway bar, even lower arms (but will need a coil over mount to be added) and cost will be in the $4000 range complete with opptions that will push the price up

[Marcus SC&C]

We`ve been doing quite a bit with second Gens lately,which is cool because I`ve always had a soft spot for them and had 8 of them myself. A few observations.
The factory subframe is quite rigid and I can pick a bare one up and walk around with it so they`re not all that heavy either. I`m not trying to take anything away from the guys making subframes I`m sure there are some gains to be had here and there but IMO the weak spots are the subframe`s mounting points (having actually torn some out of the floor on my big block 2nd gens) not the subframe itself.
The factory steering is actually really good. I was floored that the overall average bumpsteer is slightly better than a 2002 F body! In droop it`s better,in jounce not quite as good but overall it`s darn good for a factory car. That negates a lot of the advantage of a newly engineered R&P. Also many of them (Z-28/TA and especially the WS6 TAs) came with GM`s best fast ratio steering boxes. This is one case where you`d really have to go some to make a R&P actually work better.
Tire clearance,they`ve got lots of it. I was running 265-50-15s on the front of a `78 TA back in the `80s. With proper back spacing 275-40-17s fit without doing anything so why cut the subframe? All things considered the 2nd Gens were way ahead of their time. I keep saying this but I really need to get another one.... Mark SC&C

[WS6]

It's threads like this that are really pushing me to sell my Formula and get my TA rolling again. I love my Formula and really miss my TA. Oh the decisions. Mark you guys are definetly on my to call list when I do back around to the TA.

[TBART70]

Mark do you want to buy mine, it has a real nice front chassis in it.:rotfl: