bestcarb for mpg???

[jasonsnova]

ok seeing how gas prices are soaring and i just dropped tons of cash into my car putting a 6 speed in, i refuse to not drive it even though it might break the bank....so i am thinking about doing a carb swap or one atleast for around town and normal driving while keeping my holley hp double pumper for the track... so what would be the best choice ? i know double pumpers are nortoriously bad mpg... thinking maybe vac secondary holley or one of their street avenger carb? or maybe a edlerbrock? years ago i had a quadrajet on a v8s10 i had and that was good but ...man they are ugly! lol! while i would like to get a bit more mpg i dont want to totally kill my performance......so im open to suggestions!!!!!!

[Steve68]

They say the q-jet is the closest thing to F.I. and work really good when tuned right and not worn out,

[jasonsnova]

haha, ya but anyone know how to tune one? lol! not to mention ugly!!!!

[6'9"Witha69]

Use a spreadbore holley Vac Secondary. Or a smaller squarebore.

I have a 600 cfm vac Secondary carb I use for long distance cruising. I conversted it to a dual feed center float and it has it's own rail. I keep the big one (780) in the trunk and it is only 2 clips, 4 nuts and a hose clamp to swap 'em. MPG is vastly improved this way. Also make sure your vacuum advance is dialed in well.

[jasonsnova]

well not sure if a 600 would be ok??? i have a 355 9.75comp, bowtie heads, vic jr bowtieII intake, and a big solid lifter lunati cam it .528 int lift and .534 ex...forget the dur but the poweband is 3500-7000 so its alot... wishing i swapped the cam out when i had the motor out this winter but... im open to suggestions?? i noticed that the holley street avengers take the same fuel line as my 4150 so swaping back and forth would be easy with one of those.:seizure:

[6'9"Witha69]

My 383 runs 10.8:1, has a roller cam w/ ~.540 lift and ~.235 dur @ 0.050. Dart Pro 1 alum heads (215) and an RPM with a 1" spacer. You just need to set the 600 up right. Then again, my 114 lsa helps with the vacuum stuff.

[JMarsa]

I second the Quadrajet. Get one built for your combo and it'll do great for power and economy. And yes you can tune them.

--JMarsa

[jasonsnova]

ya problem is a quadrajet is like reading russian......i dont have a clue!!!! .....holleys are easy

[Steve68]

I have 2 Q jets stashed in the attic both off big 455 and a 425, just for that special occasion.

[Karch]

Contact Cliff Ruggles for qjet's. He has a long waiting list. He also just wrote a book on it.

[Adam's 55 Chevy]

Edelbrock 600. fit it and forget it.

[jasonsnova]

i had a edlebrock on another truck for a bit i couldnt get the dang thing to run for crap, but i think something was screwed on it. another friend had one on a mustang and he said it got 2x the mpg of a holley double pump. also whats everyone think of the holley street avengers????

[PTAddict]

I've used a bunch of carbs - Holley, Edelbrock, Q-jet - and the Q-jet is definitely the best I've used for MPG and around-town drivability. And they're actually not so difficult to tune - you can usually dial them in just using idle screws and mixture rods. Some tuners think they're easier than Holleys ...

[73ta]

An 800 CFM Quadrajet. Stay on the small primaries good gas mileage and good throttle response, like a 600 CFM carb. Open the secondaries big CFM carb without having two carbs. I've got one from Cliff, runs like fuel injection. Best carb I've ever run and I've had stock Quadrajet, 800 Vacuum Sec spreadbore and 850 double pumper holley on my motor.

[Goatman]

Use a small Holley (650cfm would be my recomendation) with vacuum secondaries...


Q-junks have a gay factor of at least 1,000,000....While the Holley vac. secondaries are around 10.........

Alternatively, the Q-junk makes an excellent shot-put-into-the-dumpster toy for you and your friends... Fun for the whole family, really.

[DusterRT]

Thoughts on adapters to put a Q-Jet on a square bore intake?

[Goatman]

Only thing gay-er than a Q-junk on a Q-junk intake...........

[jasonsnova]

wow you really dont like q-jets huh? ....i will admit they are extremely ugly. but their seems to be alot of support for them here!
by the way who is this cliff guy that builds them ? does he have a web site or something???

[Goatman]

Ugly and useless. Two things they accel at.... Never been a fast car with one on it and the gas milage is the same.

There's a reason they aren't made anymore.


And most Pontiac guys like them because they're numbers matching stuff... See my sig for the deal on matching numbers...

[Karch]

Goatman, while I don't use one, I disagree with your comments.

There are plenty of people who swear by them. They definately have their place.

They aren't made because e-brock couldn't get them right, though Cliff says that if tweaked, the e-brocks are really, really good.

Also, GM stopped making them after what, 16 years or more? Hmm, perhaps because they decided to go to efi?

Cliff is Cliff Ruggles...

http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/member.php?u=140049

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/rebuild455cr.html

You can't just go by one or two bad apples. When I started with Pontiacs, it was taboo to port the heads or change the intake seat to 45 degrees from 30.

Q-jets are good when matched right, and usually don't flow enough to support more than 600 hp...and around 500-550 they start to reach their max efficiency versus other carbs. But, if you are after mileage, throttle response, and good street performance, call Cliff.

[6'9"Witha69]

Qjets can and do work, they just take a lot of blueprinting to get that way. Even then, some lose an sdjustment by looking at em wrong. Some can be 5 years old and unused but work great. Hit and miss with those but I can say the same for Holley, BG/Demon, Edelbrock, etc.

So yeah, Q jets look like crap but work well for Street/Some strip cars. You just need to ensure they can get a decent vacuum signal otherwise they really don't work.

[zbugger]

I ran a Q-Jet for about 6 years and had no problems with it. Granted, I never tuned the secondaries, but I rarely got into them anyway. They are not that difficult to tune, either. Some say they are easier to tune than the Holley carbs. Now, I admit my 2.56 gears helped a bit, but the car ran VERY well and got me 18+ miles per gallon. That only dropped when my transmission started to slip. And then the trans died. Oh, and it was the Edelbrock 795cfm unit as well. I'm gonna rebuild it when I rebuild my motor, and I'll be happy running it.

[sporter]

Q-jet is the best 4v carb ever made for the street. My custom Q-jet flows 840 cfm and gets 3 mpg better than any of my Holleys. Even the annular boosters on a Holley can't compete with the triple venturi of the Q-jet. And my Q-jet made the same power on a chassis dyno as my 850 dp, same times at the track too. And the best part is they are CHEAP! I spent $350 for a fully custom rebuilt-to-spec for my engine carb. Try getting a custom Holley for that price. If you want to build it yourself, get Cliff's book, a couple of $5 q-jets from the local junk yard and a quality rebuild kit from Cliff.

http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/



Holleys do look good... hanging on my garage wall.

[Goatman]

Get me my waders..........

[MonzaRacer]

Hey Goatman get a life.
I ran the 98 Powertour with my roller 350 and all the guys from MucleMAchines from illinois couldnt believe my car had a Qjet.
The trick with qjets is you have to be smarter than the carb.
I got 18 mpg ran 70-80 all the way from Indy to Ill with the guys and we had to back track once.
The big problem everyone has is that they dont understand them.
Generally properly tuned you can cruise easy and if the secondary air valve is set right you never feel the secondaries come in the car just keeps pulling.
I know one fella who had a 455 powered 80s Firebird running Super Stock and it made over 700 hp on a Qjet.
I also like the new Edelbrock Thunder AVS too.
I had a Carter competiton AVB on my 77 Monza back in 01 and loaned it out and never got it back.
Most carbs can be tuned but its not like you will get a Dominator to get 30 mpg.
I have a 4011 series Holley(now discontinued) 800 spread bore and it runs great and get good mileage too.
That Qjet ran great and I even ran it on my big block it ran good but had to raise the primary metering rods a little but it never took major tuning.
See man if you dont understand the part your gonna bash it, so go play in your waders as you will never understand.
I have tuned cars for years and never have had any carb completely fail me. Defective cars , yeah seena lot of them, but I have tuned serveral (not tunable holleys) and now the owners believe in them.
I havent touched the holley on my truck in 6 months (when the 15 yr old floats went bad and I had to make new ones). I may give it a good cleaning (spray it off/out) when I change oil but other than that it runs fine. Heck even my boss doesnt believe me its ok as I have a header tube cracked and need to swap out the headers as its noisy. But she runs and damn good too.
Lee Abel
AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

[Goatman]

Same guy that claims Amsoil is junk..........


I bet you've got a great bridge to sell too............



Get me my waders.....

[Cruiser]

Get me my waders..........

For getting around all those blown power valves.........:seizure:

This whole carb thing is like the Chevy, Ford, Dodge debate. Get the carb that works for you, that you can tune. If you can't tune one what's the use. Just go EFI and forget it................but then the real heated debate starts.....what EFI do you use.

Joe

[Goatman]

I agree. EFI is the only way to go. Bacth fire is fine for almost all applications. But SEFI is what's freferred by most...

[Bandit]

screw gas mileage--just go with a ported tunnel ram and 2 Holley Dominators...

[sporter]

Get me my waders..........

Some of us don't pick our carbs based on their looks. :bsjerk:

[MonzaRacer]

Well I have seen more damage from amsoil than from walMart tech 2000.
I was the guy that had to install 4 engines in a fellas Crown Vic cause he use amsoil AND believed that you can only change oil in it once a year. First engine was under warranty at dealer I worked at it was a year old a 11k miles, the next one was at a my uncles and it had 18 k on the clock then, then we swapped it out at a machine shop I was working at and the dang cylinders on the 302 wouldnt bore 060! That car had 29 k on it , looked like the day it came from the dealer and the engine was SHOT. Never seen anyone so doggedly holding on to a product that clearly has cost him so much money. Th last time he brought it to the speed shop I worked at in Bedford Indiana and we installed a Jasper reman.
He quit running Amsoil (we had finally got him to change oil several times a year but never by mileage) and the last I heard his daughter has the car and its still running strong(I know a miracle for a Jasper but some get lucky).
forthe most part I have never had Qjet I couldnt make run heck my buddy was running his drag car with an electronic one for most of a year of racing till he got a 650 dp.
Heck I even got good at the computerized qjets when I worked at dealership.
Think what you want goatman but I live and learn and when I see somethingthat doesnt work I wont use it.
Lee

[Goatman]

Like I said, 271,000 and 235,000 reasons to call you full if it....


Any engine builder that blames oil on HIS failures isn't worth a pile of beans...

[Goatman]

Some of us don't pick our carbs based on their looks. :bsjerk:


Apparently not on performance either.......... :twothumbs

[Bandit]

Well I have seen more damage from amsoil than from walMart tech 2000.
I was the guy that had to install 4 engines in a fellas Crown Vic...
Your story reminds me of those dudes out there who peer over the fender of a car at a show and upon seeing a Chevy engine, shake their heads in disgust, usually adding something like "I won't never put a Chebby motor in no more of my cars because my Uncle Jesse had this Chebby and that dang thing was always in the shop..." or some variant thereof.
No doubt Uncle Jesse did have a Chevy motor and he no doubt had problems with it, but I have nothing to say about the situation because I do not know the whole story.

No doubt your unlucky Crown Vic owner had problems, and no doubt he ran Amsoil, and no doubt he had problems WHILE he was using Amsoil, but nothing you mentioned proves that any of those problems were the result of the motor oil involved. You never mentioned whether he was using an Amsoil filter, for one thing. Amsoil recommends very long intervals between oil changes, but ONLY if you are using their own filters which do a much better job of trapping contaminates down to the milli-micron level. Otherwise you must change the oil at much shorter intervals. Not even the best oil in the world (Amsoil) will help much if you're continuously running abrasive contaminates through the engine. Not to mention, what kind of driving style did this guy have? For all we know from your story, he could have been driving 55 mph down the freeway in 1st gear, redlining the engine the whole time and overheating it constantly. Maybe he had a trailer hitch on it and was pulling his houseboat across the country. Or maybe even he had a jealous significant other who was dumping sand into the oil filler cap every so often. We just don't know. And the fact that the engine is running OK now that they swapped brands of oil? Again, I don't know. Coincidence possibly. Or maybe in the process of swapping the motor for the 4th time, you unwittingly fixed the problem that was burning up the motors in the first place.

I can tell you a lot more stories of guys who had problems with engines while running other "quality" oils. But I can also tell you about a lot of customers who have run engines for hundreds of thousands of miles without a rebuild, using Amsoil.

One thing is for sure: It is very, very unlikely that Amsoil caused the premature failure of not one, but 3 different new engines.

P.S. Quadrapukes are junk!

[Goatman]

One of the most intelligent posts on this forum ever.........




We all know the deal here. He either got snubbed by Amsoil in a sponsorship deal, or he's just making sh*t up........ Either way, like I said, any engine builder that has to blame the oil on HIS failures won't ever be an engine builder of mine..

Its the best oil in the world, bar none. Most big name engine builders use it, but of course, pump their "sponsors" oil becasue they get paid to.... Then again, he's certainly not a big name..........


And your commentary on Q-junks, is, of course, spot on!

[Yenkostyle]

Wow I love it when people just spew out helpful info like "Only thing gay-er than a Q-junk on a Q-junk intake..........."

Man that helps me make an insightful decision on a carb and intake! How about explaining the difference between carbs and why one is better then the other. What has happened to this board? People used to give great information without acting juvenile and throwing out answers along the lines of: “it looks gay, um its stupid and oh yeah, my daddy can beat up your daddy.”

Jasonsnova was looking for some info on a carb that gave performance and some sort of fuel economy. How about sticking to the topic at hand here?

Man, I work daily with 18-20 year old Marines that are more mature, and better spoken then this!

[Goatman]

Then go be with them...........


This is a public forum. He asked for opinions, he was given them. Period.

[zbugger]

Goatman, you're on thin ice here. Use some respect in your posts. I know you don't like being talked down on for modifying your GTO, so don't talk down on those that prefer to learn as well.

As for Q-Jets, they're good carbs. Great on the street. Especially for what the title of this thread is for. If you want to piss on gas mileage with a carb, get a Holley. I've ALWAYS found be best carb for mileage is the Q-Jet. And they aren't bad for performance if you know what you're doing. The MAIN reason most go with a Holley is because they're easier to tune.

[TonyL]

Then go be with them...........


This is a public forum. He asked for opinions, he was given them. Period.

He asked for an opinion, not snark. This is a public forum yes, but not a playground. People come here to share experiance and learn from others with it. And snarky jackassery will not be tolorated.

And a Q-jet, while not my favorite carb, is fine. They've worked for years. The only reason they haven't proliferated like the holley, is because of the ease of rebuild. When set up properly they perform just as well. Hence Edelbrock's entry.

[jasonsnova]

man guys i didnt mean to start a carb war!! jezz lol! anyway id like to just go efi but after the trans swap and gauges stereo..and all the little nickle and dime stuff im just about out of $$$ for this year on the car! i was just thinking if i could get a bit better mpg it would be nice...compared to my gas guzzlen holley dp!

[trapin]

This is a public forum.
Wrong. It's a private forum. Bought and paid for by it's owner. If you would be so kind as to suction your head from your ass for 5 minutes you might want to look over this message board's Code Of Conduct where it clearly states that belligerence and bullying will not be tolerated.

Please consider becoming a born-again good citizen soon or kindly take your "big man on campus" attitude and stroll over to Corner Carvers where you belong.

Or...keep it up, and we'll be glad to dynamite your userID for you.

[Gordz32]

Wrong. It's a private forum. Bought and paid for by it's owner. If you would be so kind as to suction your head from your ass for 5 minutes you might want to look over this message board's Code Of Conduct where it clearly states that belligerence and bullying will not be tolerated.

Please consider becoming a born-again good citizen soon or kindly take your "big man on campus" attitude and stroll over to Corner Carvers where you belong.

Or...keep it up, and we'll glad to dynamite your userID for you.

WELL SAID!!!:yeah:

[pitts64]

Jason,
Give Cliff's Quadrajets a call.
http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/

Smooth, powerful and great economy.
462, RA-4 cam, Rhoads lifters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WQzz1jF82g

[jasonsnova]

actually....i did send cliff a email....he was quite confident he could build me a q jet for my application. problem is he has a 6 month back order/wait list!! which is pretty much the whole driveing season!! so not sure what im gonna do. i did tune up the holley a bit yesterday i'm actually kind of curious to see what it will get for mileage with the 6 speed.

[pitts64]

Jason, I would put the order in and tune your present set up for the season.

You might want to try a home made cool air induction from the front of the car along with a 160 T-stat. Its all the little things together that make a strong running car.
Don't forget things like alignment, wheel bearings, brake adjustments. Anything that can cause drag.

[jasonsnova]

ya know....ive been thinking of making my cowl induction hood functional, any one know of a kit to help with this or is it all fab ur own?
as far as ordering the carb...i would but their is a good chance im building a new motor this winter so i wouldnt want to do it until its spec'd out.

[pitts64]

This company might have what you need. They are a little high priced in my book but they seem to be the only game in town.
http://www.ramairbox.com/index.html

Its more the cool air then any so called "ram" effect that helps.
I used a Pontiac 400 cop car air filter that I found on E-Bay for 30 bucks along with a 4" flex pipe from Home Depot.