Where did you guys get your know how?

[DusterRT]

I just signed up but I've been visiting this site for some time with great interest! I must say some of the coolest looking projects I've seen on the net to date have been on here. One of the things I like most is the amount of custom fabrication that goes on, rather than the usual bolt on and go, cookie cutter cars. I'll spare the intro, life story, my project car saga, etc. and get to the point.

I'm just curious, where did you guys learn what you know? Especially you professional guys who do this stuff for a living. In a nutshell, I don't have any family to learn from or money to buy equipment to teach myself, which seems to be the route most people have taken.

I'm in the middle of my college career (occupational safety major, manufacturing engineering minor) and haven't found any but one or two classes useful or interesting. Just trying to figure out what I'm going to need to do after college to get where I need to be.

Thoughts on tech schools, like Wyo-Tech and what not? I'm going to get this blasted degree out of my way first while enjoying the college lifestyle but I'm not opposed to some hands-on schooling afterwards. Actually I think I'd enjoy it.

And a plug for myself..if anyone wants a summer shop bitch (aka **free** intern..but you can pay me if you want, lol), let me know. Will travel, (the farther soutwest the better! get me out of the rust-belt) all I ask is for some experience when I am done...I've got some experience with welding, a little with machining, and tons of general mechanical knowlege, so I'm not 100% green.

Sorry this is so long, and mucho gracias for any input anyone has!

Travis

[MrQuick]

welcome to the site Travis, My advise would be to get some schooling, not too much cause that would most likely waste your time and discourage you... MAYBE.
If you waht to get into this business try to get a job in a shop that does the type of work you like. Fab, body or mechanical.I hear Boyd is hireing?? your young so wear knee pads, safety glasses and resporaters when needed...after awhile you body gets beat up and chemicals you come in contact with are brutal. I learned the hard way.
I started in an independant repair shop, moved on to a friends race specialty car shop. I learned most of my fabrication building skills there. I could not tell you technicaly why it works or numbers from a computer chassis program but I know where it goes, how it goes and that it works fine for me...hell I can't even spell enginerre. Now im in a dealership making buku bucks and building cars on the side.
Ok, no ***** approch. My honest opinion, working in a custom/race type shop is not what its all cracked up to be. Its long hard hours and very stressfull. On top of that working on customers cars makes it hard to work on your own stuff. My real advice, learn how to buy and sell real estate and buy your own shop to run,thats the only way I see being happy doing this stuff. f *** wheres my Zoloft :hand:

[Matt@RFR]

Travis, welcome!

I can't agree more with Vince. I don't care if everybody else in the shop is making fun of you, wear protective gear as much as possible. When you're 60, it'll be your turn to make fun of the guys that were laughing at you all those years ago. Seriously.

Me? I learned cars from my Dad, who used to help build their own limited modifieds from the ground up, back in the day. Welding, fabrication and machining, I'm 95% self taught. Many years and many many injuries later, I'd like to think that I'm pretty good at what I do. :)
I got a job as a machinist at a local race engine shop before I ever SAW a mill or lathe, and I got my first fab job before I ever used a plas. Bullsh*t goes a long way, but you BETTER be a quick learner!!

As far as schooling goes, I'm not one to ask. I went to a school out in Lima, Ohio (who shall remain nameless:) ) and dropped out after 3 months after I corrected the answer to one of their tests and proving several idiot teachers wrong. I had serious problems paying money for THAT. Not saying I'm that good, just saying they were that bad. lol

[parsonsj]

Travis,
Welcome. It's a good question. My dad started me on the road of making stuff for cars by giving me his old Vega GT when I was 17. It leaked and burned oil so badly I kept a case of oil in the back of the car. Anyway, I had to replace the engine and clutch on the car. Then I stuffed a V8 into it ... then I traded it for a 66 Mustang ... which became a 69 GTO ... etc. etc.

Vince's message is the other side of the coin I'm on. I envy people who are working in the performance car business. I spend most of my work day giving 10% to my employer and 90% day dreaming about what I'm gonna do on the car when I get home.

Learning to weld and machine is a skill I've picked up from books, friends, and trial and error. Books and talented friends are the best teachers. Trial and error usually isn't. Good luck, and read up!

jp

[Salt Racer]

I got BS degree in mechanical engineering in '99, and a couple of months later, I got a job at a street rod chassis manufacturer. This is where I picked up most of fab skills. I'm not into street rods but my boss lets me use the shop during weekends, so I messed around with my cars, revising suspension geometry, etc. Fast forward to 2004, I'm good enough to build a chassis from scratch now, if given enough time, space, and money. In fact, I built one for my friend last year, and his car ran at Bonnville last August.

My old man and uncles have never been into cars, and I have no older brother. Plus I grew up in Japan where not much car modifications are allowed. I never changed oil and spark plugs until I was 19. So my situation wasn't any better than yours. It all depends on your determination. Good luck!

[Piet]

My Dad knows squat about cars... I was interested though.

I got my know-how from not-knowing-how. Started with an auto shop class in high school. Then I bought a 1951 GMC pickup when I was 16, cut the subframe from a '77 Camaro. Had a guy weld it on... then did the engine, steering... blah blah blah...

Now I am getting back into it again....I bought a '73 Camaro....

Hey did you know that the most expensive part of a Camaro to fix is the rear frame rails? Niether did I..... Until NOW! :guilty:

My favorite way of getting into these things is feet first! :cool:

[parsonsj]

Hey did you know that the most expensive part of a Camaro to fix is the rear frame rails? Niether did I..... Until NOW!

Reminds me of an old joke: How do you make a small fortune fixing an old Camaro?



Start with a large fortune.

jp

[DusterRT]

Mr Quick..I'm guessing the Boyd's comment was a joke but if you aren't kidding, let me know. I would just really hope their operation isn't really like what I see on TV, I can do without drama. But it does seem like they go through their low-seniority employees regularly.

I hear you guys loud and clear as far as finding a job, I've been trying actually but there doesn't seem to be much interest. There's been several shops I've asked and generally they: don't hire intern-type positions, only hire interns from the local community college, only hire experienced people, are busy and don't have time to teach (1 man shops); or there's a custom shop I've gotten so far as to get an application in but they pretty much told me to go away and stop bothering them (thanks!). For the record I set foot in their office probably 4 times over roughly 2 years, so it's not like I could've been too annoying, lol.

One of the things I've been contemplating was trying to approach Troy Trepanier's shop. I went up there with a friend just to poke around and check things out one day 'cause it's not far from me. I couldn't help but notice that half of the guys running around there looked like they were younger than myself. There didn't seem to be a lot going on that day, but at least I know there's a few young guns employed there.

Am I crazy to try and approach a shop like that? I guess I don't have anything to lose..

Travis

[MuscleRodz]

A lot of Troy's employee's are or were Wyotech grads. They also do job placement I beleive and have been around long enough now that they have a rep of turning out good people. It also probably helps they want to be there having fun as well.

I grew up around old airplanes, now I own my own shop restoring antique aircraft. On the side I am building my 68 Camaro. Some of my experience crosses over, but not all of it. I am too poor to hire 90% of the work out so I educated my self through trial and error which I don't recommend. I second and third that building cars or airplanes for a living isn't glamorous. NEVER turn your hobby into a business. One day it will feel like one. Find you a decent 9-5 job that pays stupid money so you can come home and spend it all on your car.

Mike

[MrQuick]

Travis you got me I was kidding in light of recent TV events.I wasn't kidding about the real estate tho! Try Troys shop, like you said you don't have anything to loose...what the worst that could happen? A tip well two, don't be annoying and never embelish the facts.don't over sell your skills. Its better to walk in green. Tell then you have SOME welding skills. Don't expect to be paid well. good luck with that.

[rbr4155]

Hey Mike,
Well you seem to have built the most awesome camaro body and stance I've seen yet. Did you make or buy that front fender setup? Also can you elaborate a little on why turning your hobby into a job is bad. I've thought of doing that some and just curious on the cons of it. Thanks for the feedback in advance.

P.S.-I will now be modeling my car after yours as long as that's ok.

[MuscleRodz]

RBR,

It is not that I don't completely hate it anymore, I still get great satisfaction when I finish one and go fly one for the first time. It is everything else that goes with it. Dealing with customers and their wants and needs, doing stuff you wouldn't do if it was yours because their budget won't allow. DEADLINES, you get behind and it becomes a panic to get it done. Many sleepless nights, I work 12-14 hours a day just so I can bill 8. Doesn't leave a lot of time for family if you are building a business. Other people have had better luck than me, and part of it is the business I am in. It fluctuates with the market. My work is seasonal, so that makes budgeting fun.

Owning your own business can be rewarding, but beware it is 90% hard work to get the 10% of kudos with a job well done. I have been considerng getting out of the small aviation market and statring a speed shop. Part of the reason I am going full tilt witht the Camaro. If it goes over well at the shows, then maybe I will make the move.

Back to the Camaro. THe front end in the renderings is stock with no bumper. I think the paint scheme is what sells it so well. I have a few more tricks up my sleeve for the front but I am not ready to show them yet. I am flattered you want to pattern your car from mine. It seems like the more people look at it, the more they like it.

Mike

[DusterRT]

Well in all honesty I'd be reaping most/all of the benefits of my employment so I wouldn't expect to get paid at all, at least starting out. More or less I'm asking for a huge favor, or at least that's how I'm looking at it. I am lucky enough that my parents said they'd support me should a situation like that arise. As far as stretching the truth, I'm sure if I walked in to a shop, said I can do XXX, and then they have me attempt to do XXX on a customer's project..well unless I get lucky I'd probably have a wrench flying towards my head and I don't think I'd be working there long, lol.

Anyway..thanks for the input guys!

Travis

[jasons56]

I got my know-how at a racing school/rent a ride operation ran by a two time Winston Cup champion. Although it was a brief 2 year stint over a decade ago, I'm still learning from that experience.
If you are able to starve and don't have the kind of family commitments that hold back us older folks, thats a hell of an advantage that you should exploit while you can.
Do whatever it takes to get in the door with the best possible operation you can find. Learning how the best approach their trade will serve you VERY well. Time is money, and knowing where a skilled tradesman spends time is one of the most valuable things to learn.
If you approach a job prospect with the attitude that you are willing to do whatever it takes and show respect for their time, you will get an opportunity.
It took me 8 visits to get a job with the shop I wanted. Most of the visits lasted less than 2 minutes. If you get blown off, take it lightly. Successful people are busy people. The very fact that you won't take no for an answer shows you have initiative. On my final visit, I was asked just how cheaply I could survive. I was told that as long as I could pay for my way I would have a job. That meant doing anything that added value to my employer, including caring for the shop dog, washing all the owners cars (personal), cleaning his gutters, doing the bathroom cleaning, shop cleaning, sorting scrapmetal, ANYTHING to justify my paycheck. In return I got to work around legends and learn skills they had spent lifetimes developing.
4 months into the job I had track duties added to my "responsibilties" and found myself in the infield at Charlotte while 100,000 fans filled the stands. Pitted right next to us, the elder Waltrip was under his car getting greasy just like the rest of us. I got there by showing I was willing to put up with crap (literally) and work my ass off- because, like everyone else in the infield- I wanted it BAD.
So, how bad do you want it?

[indyjps]

you dont say which school you are attending but if youre in illinois im guessing u of i, southern, or maybe western. i graduated from southern and was loosely involved in the university racing car project. i dont remember the name of the series now. they used 600 cc motorcycle engines. i know southern and u of i have cars in this series that compete between colleges. also check into any of the electric car programs you could learn some fab skills there. dont forget the agriculture clubs as unlikely as it sounds the ag clubs are well funded and usually have mig welders and they are always repairing some type of equipment.
now this isnt building cars but anywhere you can learn to cut/grind/weld for free and have someone with more experience guide you along is a bonus. many shops wont want to mess with you without experience.
personally i learned quite a bit about paint and body by wrecking every car i owned for the first 5 years of driving, i had a running account @ my local bodyshop that i worked off an hour @ a time, sometimes fixing my own car. luckily the shop owner was willing to help me out.

[FCRacing]

Hey T, I started my path in High School with 4 years and 3 summers in an excellent HS machine welding shop. When I got out of College (Mechanical Eng) I first worked as an Eng tech for a semi-conductor company working with a team doing start-up of new fab lines.......somewhere along the way I desided to build a race car and after checking with price at a few shops, I thought Hey I can buy the equiptment, build the car myself and then sell all the stuff and be money ahead...........well much to my wifes dispair I never quit building cars........I ended up quiting my nice safe job and going to work at CABCO race cars in Belmont, then to Alston, and then in 86 a partner and I opened a shop together (Partnerships are damn hard and we had different ways of doing things so in 87' we split it up and he opened Magnum Force in Cambell Ca and I opened Future Customs Industries and have never looked back..............It seems like much of what you need to do was covered by the others, but one thing Matt metioned has to be said over and over again............wear your safety equiptment, One eyed ,one handed,3 fingered,blind,skin cancer infested fabricators are not in real high demand................and like the others above I have done my stupid moments, @ metal in eye (moment without my safety glasses) stitches.......grinding wheel...........but over all if you take care of your body, screw anyone laughing at you.............10 years from now some of them will be gone or screwed up and in the end its up to you not to let that happen..........cause no one else cares if you do..... And the best advice I can give you is study new racing tech as it developes, you don't want to be just anouther guy who can stick parts together you want to be cutting edge and inovative, because even if you choose to build street rods or street only cars, incorperating racing tech into them will make your stuff stand appart form the others.........

[mikey]

I started out wanting to drive and not being able to afford to pay somebody to fix my cars. From there I took autobody at the vo-tech in high school. Then it was off to the USAF for 8 years. I've pretty much taught myself alot by reading watching others and I've picked up a few ideas from tv. I'm just now to the point that can pick and choose what and who I want to do work for I've been at it for 26 years now.

[Jim Nilsen]

I got a job 23 years ago installing lockers for a millwright company when siding work was slow. They kept me on and taught me how to do retrofitting of machinery to make them modern and do material handling equipment installations along with moving machines. I finally one day was much smarter than the chain and could weld, that along with all of my other skills made me a very good mechanic than can makes something out of nothing.

My dad always told me people are born with it and I was much luckier than my brothers who can do construction but when it comes to steel and gears I somehow had the understanding he had to be a machine repairman for 40 years. I never wanted to grow up and be a maintenanceman but it makes a lot more money a lot easier for me than anything else. The car is something to prove to myself that I have the skills to do anything if I try hard enough and I still keep learning every step of the way even if it just makes me faster at it.

Jim Nilsen

[mustanggirl1967]

My boyfriend camaroboy69 has been on this site for awhile he is my teacher :) so i learn most of the stuff by him dont know much but enough to know what im doing .. and how to weld that is the best part ever :)

[High Plains Mopars]

My dad, step dad, and uncles were all into cars, so it wasn't a real stretch for me to get involved. Before I could ever drive I was helping in the garage and watching what was going on. While it never really helped me technically, I got a good view of knowing that car assembly was a tedious and at times frustrating hobby.

For knowledge I read voraciously, then and now. Everything I could get my hands on whether it was my dad's collection of old Hot Rods to my own subscriptions. When I was in high school I took auto shop, work the parts counter at the local chain, and volunteered to help any local race team that was willing to talk to me. I also bracket raced my street car and eventually built a couple of oval track cars of my own, learning by what I had watched around me and through my own failures. In your youth it is much easier to work harder rather than smarter. I've continued to build cars and add to my knowledge by both hands on and continuing to read. Check out Steve Smith Autosports Publishing for a very broad selection of a lot of really good information on everything from suspension design to fabricating and business disciplines, http://www.ssapubl.com.

Eventually I took welding classes at the local community college. That combined with my business degree landed me a job as the division manager at a shop building highway signs. Cerainly not as glamorous as building hot rods, but because the disciplines involved everything from electrical wiring to sheet metal, welding and paint, it has refined my skills over and above what I've just learned on my cars.

Certainly attending a trade school can give you a hand up on doing this for a living. Especially since most of them have specialized hot rod and racing as well as placement departments. I have to say though, based on working on my own cars, I really don't know that I would want to make a living working on other peoples cars. Working at a job shop can be very demanding when it comes to meeting customer expectations of what they want their car to be and what their budget will allow. Living with a race team can be all consuming and dominate every moment of your life. Certainly shows like Rides and American Hot Rod have glamourized thigns. They do stage a lot of drama for tv, but ultimatly it is a lot of hard work that your either going to love of loath. However, if your willing to make the commitment, it certainly can be a interesting way to spend your days.

[MoeBawlz]

I went to UTI for about 3 months, and wasted those 3 months of my life. My high school education was one of the best in the state and showed its value when I attended UTI. After leaving UTI i continued to teach myself new things and went on to a college degree in technology education and manufacturing engineering. I am currently a high school auto shop teacher and love every minute of it.

Aside from automotive knowledge in high school I learned everything on my own in regards to fabrication and use of a lathe, mill, and welder.

[Alan66ss]

Some things that have helped me along the way in my career. When looking for a job don't take no for the answer. If you are interested in working for them - when they say no - ask if you can keep in contact every month or so and check in with them to see if anything has opened up. This will show them you have even more initiative. As far as building skills - just go and do it. Watch others and read as much as you can. I have been a design engineer for years. Never ran a mill or lathe. Bought a mill several months ago so I could learn. Now I am watching others and reading about the processes as much as I can. It is a lot of fun.

Oh and John - only 10% to your employer - man they are getting screwed between the two of us. I probably give 20%.

Alan

[ProTouring442]

1st, on owning your own business... It's kinda like doing cocaine. At first, your feeling great, very motivated, on top of the world. After a while, it doesn't seem to give you the kick it once did, and still further on you decide that maybe it's not so good for you after all. So, in time, you decide to get out of business. In my case, I sold off all of my inventory, and used the funds to put money down on a nice house for my wife and I. Still, just like with cocaine, every day you keep thinking, "maybe just one more time."

As for working for someone else; that sucks too! I've spent the last three years employed. I hated it. I'm too independent, just not a team player I guess. So, although it will be from someone else, I am going back into sales, as a contracted salesman. I set the hours and pay by how much I get out there and sell. I'd love to work for, or own some sort of specialty shop, but I haven't hit the lottery yet!

As for my "knowledge," the first step is to know that you don't know. If you do this, it's not so hard to ask questions and read up on what you want to know. Sounds simple, but I would be willing to bet that 90% won't ask and that at least 505 will try to BS their way.

My great uncle was an engineer... for the Illinois Central Railway! He wasn't much help, although he did get my dad the spot as mascot or some such when they christened the train "The City of New Orleans" back in '42. Kinda cool that my dad was their and then the train became so famous with that song.

Anyway, my dad has always been into cars. My first real brake came when he decided we should restore a '61 Impala. Memories I will hold dear for life. A lot of what we learned we did by trial and error, and a lot of questions and reading. We built him a beautiful 1956 BelAir convertible, and I am now working on my 1972 442 convertible. When I don't know, I ask. It's worked pretty well so far!

I know this sort of rambled on, but hopefully it has helped a little.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"

[jamheg1101]

Well Heres my first post on here.

I went with my father to one of his friends manufacturing shops. Saw they had a tig welder and asked if I could borrow it for a few weeks since they were not using it currently. Got it home, had the electrcian come run a 220 line and played around for a bit with it. Moved outside of philly and someone on the web told me a race shop was hiring. I went and did a weld test and interview and got the job. It was here that I learned to use other tools such as lathes, mills, cnc machines, presses yad yadi yada. Just got to get your foot in the door. As far as working on cars was completely trial and error. It gets expensive.lol

[ProdigyCustoms]

For me I guess it was in my DNA. I worked with my dad, fought with him a lot, so left and went out into other shops. I read a lot and self taught a lot. opened my own shop a LONG time ago. No formal schooling, although there was no WyoTech back then. Now I have young guys work with us, some full time, some part time. 3 of them are going to college or trade school. One is getting his business degree, and over the last few years is becoming a world class painter. Two of the other guys are in BMW school on scholarships, but only here for 9 months. These guys are superstar UTI grads selected by BMW. So while some know nothing about these old cars, they have a track record of applying their selves.

These youngsters in our shop work closely with 3 expert elders, myself, Matt my bodyman is 30, my brother David is with me now, and my son Michael has learned enough to teach others now, while learning.

You do not need to know anything to join our crew. You only need to be able to do as you are instructed (which can be more difficult then it sounds). if your willing to listen, be careful, and do what your asked to do, the way your asked to do it, you will learn and be a real asset to somebody.

And what Mr Quick said, echo!

[toxicz28]

3 expert elders, ....., Matt my bodyman is 30, .....

Are you sure you don't mean welders?
30 is hardly enough to be considered an elder unless the rest of your staff is still in Jr. High.:rotfl:

I know, I know :getout: .......