The '09 Camaro's effect on the 1st gens?

[bigvegan]

Hey all,

What effect, if any, do you think the new retro-styled Camaro that's coming out in 2009 is going to have on the value of the 1st generation Camaros that it's modeled after?

Is the value going to go up, because you can't reproduce authenticity?

Or is the value going to go down because you get close to the classic lines, with a fuel-injected V8, 4 wheel independent suspension, stick shift, disc brakes, etc., etc. all for $27-$37k, and basically get a factory built pro-tourer?

What are your guesses?

I'm sure the '05 Mustangs could provide an example here, I just don't follow Ford well enough to know.

[Aceshigh]

Well.....I honestly think many 1st gens are way overpriced to begin with.
Too many clones out there going for bookoo cash IMHO.
I'm also of the opinion that Barrett Jackson is ruining this hobby.
But that's just where I stand to formulate the opinion on THIS thread....

Personally I don't think it will affect them much at all.
They're STILL considered "Classics".

That short lived rebirth of the Ford Thunderbird didn't do much to
classic T-Bird prices either. :woot:BTW I own a 78 pro-touring LS1 Camaro.

[68Formula]

Not really decided about 1st gens, but I think it will have a negative effect on all the 4th gens. I think they have been staying high because there is no replacement.... yet.

[trapin]

Not really decided about 1st gens, but I think it will have a negative effect on all the 4th gens. I think they have been staying high becuase there is no replacement.... yet.
Yep...I predict about the same. You are going to see those cars take a hit. I don't think the 5th gen car will have any noticeable impact on first gen values. I just don't see it happening.

[6'9"Witha69]

Not really decided about 1st gens, but I think it will have a negative effect on all the 4th gens. I think they have been staying high becuase there is no replacement.... yet.I would agree.

[MarkM66]

New camaro will have no effect on a 1st gen.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no comparison between the two.

[956G-Malibu]

Yeah I dont think it will ever effect a first gen, you can never go wrong or compare a classic muscle car to a new car off the car lot, the the 4th gens I do think will have a hit though, since rite now even some are going for in 20K, I would like to get a camaro myself a 4th gen, since first gens are getting over priced, but I would still go for a first gen no matter what........................Im gonna be the first in line to get myself a 09 camaro, dont care, im not buyin a car yet, im saving myself for the 09.

[harshman]

most of the guys complaining about the high price of a first gen are those who don't own one.:spank2: :enguard:

oh and BTW, did i mention that i am selling mine?

[Ralph LoGrasso]

In my opinion, 4th gens will almost instantaneously drop $2-3K in price when the 5th gens hit the market; first gens will be unaffected, if not a slight value increase due to an increase in visibility and popularity.

[John McIntire]

I agree with Ralph, the 1st GENS will see no affect, they are the first, original, authentic design. Heck, maybe the prices for 1st GENS might go up because of the new 5TH GEN. It might raise awareness of where the design came from, and might actually bring other people to the market with bottomless checkbooks!

[trapin]

It's starting already.

I'll bet you could get this guy down to the high 9000's. And for that price this would make a fun little toy.

15 months ago this car would have netted 17 to 18 bills easily.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/car/302838634.html

[Whistler]

I don't think the 4th gens are holding their value at all. They're not depreciating into nothing, either, but are on par with the Mustangs, for which there is a newer alternative,

[Nine Ball]

4th gens do not hold value well anyways, unless you own a limited edition or a low mileage WS6/Firehawk/SS type car. The trick to not losing much on a 4th gen purchase is to buy low mileage clean special editions or rare and desirable color combos. Then you can enjoy them and turn them without losing anything. The base model Z28s and Trans Ams have horrible resale value, always have.

The new Camaro won't affect 1st gens. If anything, it may create a new wave of enthusiasts for 1st gens, since they may appreciate the heritage of the design and seek more knowledge about the Grandpa Camaros. I can't count how many people have told me that my various '69 Camaros were "nice Mustang". Maybe some of the later generations will recognize what the older cars are after the new one comes out.

[BonzoHansen]

My $0.02: 4th gen values drop, 3rd gen no impact (already low, still the bargain), might offer slight bump to 1st and 2nd gens just from increased exposure to the nameplate. I think the old Mustang guys saw that at BJ in February.

[toofun]

Well just to play devils advocate, I think you will see an effect on first gens but there is a clear difference here.

First off. The numbers matching, collectable first gens will NOT see ANY effect on the price. BUT I really think the plain jane camaros that many are selling as pro touring cars are gonna take a MAJOR hit. Like someone else here said, you are basically going to able to buy a PRO TOURING camaro straight from the factory, WARRANTY AND ALL for 27-32k? That is gonna have a MAJOR impact on a CERTAIN sector of first gens!! If not anything else it is gonna put the first gen market back into perspective. The fourth gens are gonna be worthless though....Just my opinion....

Mark
TOOFUN

[TonyL]

exactly Mark. Entry level guys are going to have to weigh building their own or just going out and financing the very thing they are shooting for anyway. I'll be buying one for that very reason. It'd take a huge amount of money to get a 69 to that level of comfort, reliability and performance.
And I'm sure the after market will make the new Camaros silly awesome.

[trapin]

I don't know that the 4th gens will be worthless, that's stretching it a bit. The LS1 cars will be a hell of a bargin. I think people will still be able to move them, just not at the prices from 2 years ago.

[Vegas69]

New cars and old cars just don't attract the same buyer. I find it hard to compare a 69 camaro to a 2009 camaro. Get in and drive both back to back. Their is nothing special about a 2009 camaro. It's not a custom car you have thought out every detail on. I don't know where you guys live but here you can't buy a new car for under 100k that you don't see your shadow 5 times a day. I'll build a 69 camaro exactly the way I want it and know I have something special.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

The biggest difference I see from the buyer who buys an '09 as his pro-touring car, and the guy who builds or buys a '69 is safety and emissions. Emissions is getting more and more strict by the second it seems. There are cops walking around with mirrors now to check the underside of the car and make sure the cats haven't been tampered with in any way, etc. This is going to be spreading to more and more states and with the proliferation of the global warming hysteria, it will only get worse.

For example, if I want to install some headers and a y-pipe on my SS, I have to have the rear '02s deleted out of the computer so that I'll pass inspection.

If I had a '69 Camaro, I can do to it whatever I damn well please with minimal resistance from the state.

Not to mention the warranty issues when modding a car. Don't expect to buy a 400hp Camaro from GM, and then decide you want 500hp. So what do you do--swap on a set of heads and a more aggressive cam--sounds simple enough, but you just voided your warranty and you will no longer pass emissions.


I don't think you're buying a factory pro-touring car in the '09 Camaro, I think you're buying a late model performance car. :)

[toofun]

Ralph and Vegas you both bring up great points but I do have a couple of comments. First Vegas, To be fair you cant really judge a 09 camaro until you actually drive one. I dont know of anyone yet on this board anyways that has been able to get behind the wheel of one and take it for a spirited drive. So feedback on what it is like compared to an old 69 really cant be compared,

Ralph, you are right about the emissions police, you also are right about the factory making them about 400 horses, BUT, most of these car builders are really DETUNING the motors from the factory. The motors are capable of putting out ALOT more than they are advertised but are detuned so they will last a long long time without worry of warranty return issues. So whats my point? I am guessing that aftermarket will have alot of EASY mods to bump the numbers up with minimal effort so that you will be able to unleash the true stock potential of these powerplants. For the ones that want to go balls to the wall and push well into the 550 hp and up range, well I think if you are going for that you arent gonna worry about the warranty. So for the sake of arguement lets say you buy a base 09 camaro 400 hp from the factory for 28K Throw in a very conservative 12k in performance upgrades and you still have a super powered car, that handles like its on rails, stops on a dime, has all the creature comforts, looks like a first gen pro touring car all at a price of 40K? I dont know but to me that is a no brainer!! Again, not dumping on anyone it is just my opinion!!

P.S. I for one am waiting for the initial craze to be over( first 6-8 months) before I buy one. Every dealer in the world is gonna mark it up to the moon for the "i got to have one now" crowd. Also am hoping and waiting for an RS/SS CONVERTIBLE version!!

Mark
TOOFUN

[trapin]

Mark. I'm doing the same thing, although I'm going to weight a year or two and get a used '09. Let someone else take the hit on the new purchase. LS3 6-Speed's should be a dime a dozen by then.

[wantahertzdonut]

The 09's won't do much. They're great cars in their own right but it's a completely different car from the 67-69's.

Classic Mustangs didn't lose value when the 05's came, and I doubt the new Challenger will affect classic Challenger/Cuda prices.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Ralph, you are right about the emissions police, you also are right about the factory making them about 400 horses, BUT, most of these car builders are really DETUNING the motors from the factory. The motors are capable of putting out ALOT more than they are advertised but are detuned so they will last a long long time without worry of warranty return issues. So whats my point? I am guessing that aftermarket will have alot of EASY mods to bump the numbers up with minimal effort so that you will be able to unleash the true stock potential of these powerplants. For the ones that want to go balls to the wall and push well into the 550 hp and up range, well I think if you are going for that you arent gonna worry about the warranty. So for the sake of arguement lets say you buy a base 09 camaro 400 hp from the factory for 28K Throw in a very conservative 12k in performance upgrades and you still have a super powered car, that handles like its on rails, stops on a dime, has all the creature comforts, looks like a first gen pro touring car all at a price of 40K? I dont know but to me that is a no brainer!! Again, not dumping on anyone it is just my opinion!!

Mark
TOOFUN

Mark,

I have no doubts the aftermarket will be out in full force on these cars. I'd suspect an LS2 or LS3 Camaro will benefit about 35rwhp from full bolt-ons (including full exhaust) and a tune. That's on par with what one can expect with any full bolt-on LSX car. Hopefully these cars will be underrated as the 4th gens were from the factory as well. Using your philosophy, you most definitely get a very well performing car for under or around $40K. It's just not a pro-touring car, in my opinion.

That being said, my pops is first on the list at the local dealer for an '09 Camaro, so hopefully I can report some feedback in a year or so.

[trapin]

Tell pops we want a burnout video.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I'll have to hop in and take that video while he isn't around! LOL.

[trapin]

What did I guys tell you? That Formula went for $9500.

Not bad...not bad at all. Someone got a nice toy for a nice price.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/car/318354602.html

[SimplyKC]

Well just to play devils advocate, I think you will see an effect on first gens but there is a clear difference here.

First off. The numbers matching, collectable first gens will NOT see ANY effect on the price. BUT I really think the plain jane camaros that many are selling as pro touring cars are gonna take a MAJOR hit. Like someone else here said, you are basically going to able to buy a PRO TOURING camaro straight from the factory, WARRANTY AND ALL for 27-32k? That is gonna have a MAJOR impact on a CERTAIN sector of first gens!! If not anything else it is gonna put the first gen market back into perspective. The fourth gens are gonna be worthless though....Just my opinion....

Mark
TOOFUN

After the 2005 Mustang came out, it hurt some of the newer Mustangs pretty bad at first, but that major impact has softened.

The old Mustangs have continued to go up and up.

The new Mustang and the upcoming Camaro are not, and will not be turnkey classics/pro-touring cars. It's always the same, they are cool for the first few months and then it's "meh" after a while. You won't get a "meh" from a first gen EVER.

I look forward to parking my completed '68 next to a 2009 Camaro and embracing the "realness" of my first gen...even if the guts are from 2002.:headbang:

Back to Mustangs, even my 1994 Mustnag gets more attention that a 2007 because there are not a million of them on the road.
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