For the people who dont take the Pontiac catch up race serious!

[Roadrage David]

sins a couple of years the pontiac franety hase been catshing up with aftermarket engine blocks like the Indian adventureII the Buddler alu block and the kaufman MR1 blocks together with the edelheads kaufman d port heads and the big Tiger heads and now the canted valve heads the forged and billet cranks rods eagle stroker kits. but now whe have a First bij my nolige not used by any of the other traditional american V8 brands.pontiac V.TEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chek this out http://www.vari-lift.com/

[Nine Ball]

I was having a difficult time reading that, then I realized you are in Europe. :) Whew!

[derekf]

My Dutch is likely nowhere as good as David's English.. so I figured I'd try to translate/spellcheck to make it easier for others to read:

For a couple of years, the Pontiac fraternity has been catching up -- with aftermarket engine blocks like the Indian Adventure II, the Buddler aluminum block and the Kaufman MR1 blocks -- together with the Edelheads, Kaufman D port heads, big Tiger heads and now the canted valve heads; forged and billet cranks and rods, and the Eagle stroker kits.... but now we have a first, by my knowledge not used by any of the other traditional American V8 brands: Pontiac V.TEC!
Check this out http://www.vari-lift.com/

[6'9"Witha69]

That is some very interesting stuff.

[EFI69Cam]

The parts are there, the engines make power, but you pay three prices for the parts.

[BA.]

I dig the aftermarket parts for Pontiac motors!

Just curious though,.....if you buy an aftermarket block and heads, can you still say that you are Pure Poncho? :) It's gotta be better than putting a Chevy into a Pontiac!!

[andrewb70]

:) It's gotta be better than putting a Chevy into a Pontiac!!

Anything is better than that! Who would do such a vile thing?

Andrew

[Goatman]

LOL. The Pontiac "purist" will say no. But they're pretty much gay anyway.......


If you're using a "traditional" Pontiac design, and want to play with the other Marques, you're banging your head against a wall... Plain and simple.

And that's from personal experience.

[Roadrage David]

The parts are there, the engines make power, but you pay three prices for the parts. eeeeeeuuuuhh NO!. from 500 hp and up prices are the same as CHevy.....

[Roadrage David]

My Dutch is likely nowhere as good as David's English.. so I figured I'd try to translate/spellcheck to make it easier for others to read:

For a couple of years, the Pontiac fraternity has been catching up -- with aftermarket engine blocks like the Indian Adventure II, the Buddler aluminum block and the Kaufman MR1 blocks -- together with the Edelheads, Kaufman D port heads, big Tiger heads and now the canted valve heads; forged and billet cranks and rods, and the Eagle stroker kits.... but now we have a first, by my knowledge not used by any of the other traditional American V8 brands: Pontiac V.TEC!
Check this out http://www.vari-lift.com/ Thank you:twothumbs ... im not only from the netherlands europe but im dislectic as wel

[68Formula]

LOL. The Pontiac "purist" will say no. But they're pretty much gay anyway.......


If you're using a "traditional" Pontiac design, and want to play with the other Marques, you're banging your head against a wall... Plain and simple.

And that's from personal experience.

Jim Hand runs a 4000+lb Wagon in the low 11s using a factory block, factory heads (ported), factory spec cam, factory intake and factory carb. You just have to do it right.


http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/rebuild455jh01.html

[Goatman]

And it took him 30 years of R&D to do it......


I know Jim Hand, talked to him many times. And his car won't run with a Chevy or Ford.........

[SatisTraction]

my ford has ran mid 9's on the stock block. near stock ls1's cn run 11's

[Roadrage David]

i tought this was about pontiac Vtec. it apears that people insted are bi...ing and moaning about what a stok ford ore chevy engine can do!! seems like a bit sour grapes to me... every brand hase its sucses storys. i can name a couple from pontiac that will rock ford and chevy of its feet. as im sure others can do the oposit. who cares. i suspected more mature serius chit chat about this new system reguardless of brand........

[Goatman]

And just so you know I had a 700hp Pontiac (stock block) and I'm telling you its a waste of time.


10.09@131, 3400lbs, stock suspension.


If you want Pontaic ball washing, check out PY. That's all they're good for...

[Goatman]

And that's also the reason this got moved to Engine MISCELLANEOUS.......

[Beige]

Technically this isn't VTEC because there's no electronic control, it is VVT though.

Variable ratio rockers have been around for a while for other engines and were supposed to be eventually made for Pontiacs as well.
http://www.hotrocker.com
the website doesn't look like it's been updated for a long time so I don't know if they're still working on making them for different engines.

This setup is different in that it uses centrifugal force to change the ratio which keeps it self contained, but it seems like it would be harder to keep the activation point for all 8 cylinders the same.

[wick]

For street purposes, I'll keep my Pontiac. I know Chevies (and others) can make some great HP but I can use my relative stock parts and run 12's all day. I know others can do the same but I know Pontiacs (a little) and do just fine. Buicks are torque monsters as well but I don't like the external oil pump and valve train.

[Goatman]

12's........


Any stock LS1 F-body, LS2 GTO/Vette can do the same.


Yawn....

[wick]

And your point is? I just gave my opinion.

Anyone can just go and "buy" 12's or faster but to do it with vintage iron is much more fun to me. No computer, FI, NOS, ect.

[Goatman]

You bought 12's with your car, you just did it with dinosaur tech... No points either way...

[73ta]

Any stock LS1 F-body, LS2 GTO/Vette can do the same! Now those are boring. Too many of them. I keep my old Poncho powered car and drive the snot out of it for about 45 years and then sell it for a small fortune.

[Goatman]

That's right, they can all do the same..... Except one has a warranty, A/C, and power everything (and are bone stock) and one isn't....


Boring as it is, the sad fact is, 12's in common place and so are the 11's..

And everyday that goes by means the newer ones will gain in value too. At one time, the old cars were considered worthless junk too....

[73ta]

"And everyday that goes by means the newer ones will gain in value too. At one time, the old cars were considered worthless junk too...."

I doubt that the new cars will gain in value unless it's a very low production number vehicle. New cars will go down in value every day. I don't think any vintage muscle car produced in low numbers was ever considered worthless junk. I'm 50 and when I started buying muscle cars when I was 20, in 1976, a 1970 1/2 Z28 and my current 73 TA were selling for just about what the sold for new a few years before!:headbang:

[Goatman]

Same BS they were saying in the 70's... Human error and accidents will whittle down the numbers, just like they did 30+ years ago...



Please save the BS for Performance Years.........

[73ta]

Simple math, start out with 3,000 units end up with very few in 25 years. Start out with todays production numbers 300,000 end up with more in 25 years like the 65-66 mustangs. P.S. You're not nearly old enough to know true BS. Scientists have concluded that intellegence is at it's peak in humans at 53. You've got a long way to go!

"Same BS they were saying in the 70's... "

According to you're bio you're 32, that means you were 1-5 years old in the 70's. Boy you've got a good muscle car memory!

[wick]

And half the fun is working on them and building. I would rather work on my '73 than a new LS car. And what cars draw more attention at a show or just getting gas? I'll give you two guesses but you only need one.

But on another note, I do think the LT1 and others will have their day but it will be many more years.

[Tom Welch]

I dont like working on the new stuff much at all, built in difficulty when having to replace parts that fail, like temp sensors, crank sensors, ecm, coil towers, etc. Forget changing plugs in a 4th gen F-body. Now these parts do work and work well most of the time but the cost of service and repair on modern computer controlled engines can be pricey. My 67 Firebird runs a 428 that is carbureted. It is simple and rock solid reliable. I dont need expensive chips, reprogrammed ecm's, air intake systems or any new technology to make good reliable power that will hold its own on the street. I do not knock or disrespect the EFI crowd and I may join it one day, but I have not been convinced that all of the computerized electronics are as easy to deal with as a carb and HEI are. Then again I may be biased, but that's me.

[Turbo T]

Goatman, I don't know who pissed in your cornflakes, but who cares? So a stock LS1 can run 12's. Okay, what's your point? The warranty and A/C and stuff is all fine and good, but don't forget, you're spending $30K+ to buy that LS1, LS2, GTO, Vette, etc. in the first place, so what's the big benefit? My Regal T-Type can run 12's, and it's got A/C, but I haven't spent anywhere near 30 grand on it, or even 20 grand. You can be sure that it'll run much quicker than a stock Vette, and probably handle just as good if not better, by the time I reach 30K invested.

Tom Welch was right about all the sensors and senders and all that mess too. My buddy's LS1 Camaro needs a $400 code reader to tell him what's wrong with his car, and it takes him about an hour and a half to change the spark plugs. His alternator crapped out a few months back, and they had to drop the K-member to get to it. Not my idea of fun. Oh yeah, and his mods voided his warranty, so he had to do that himself. He also removed his A/C and power steering because they were in the way of the turbo piping. Now we both have 11-second cars with no warranty, except mine's faster, has A/C, and he's still making payments on his.

One last thing, if you like the new stuff so much, why do you own a 1970 GTO?

[Skip Fix]

Just price some headers for an LS car vs ANY old car Potniac or Chevy powered about double. Look at the price of a feaking "intake" (fancy air cleaner tube) for an LS car.It takes a $400+ computer tuner to tweak the fuel /advance curve vs $20 jets , or a distributor curve kit. And if you don't know the program you sure can screw alot of things up!

10.99@ 124 stock 2 bolt block 455 E heads flat tappet hydraulic on pump gas,mufflers,tailpipes!

That said I love my 04 GTO it runs a 13.6 with a stock motor and a computer tweak. But I sure can't work on it like I can my older Pontiacs and Chevies.

[Goatman]

Lots of old dudes crying... What a surprise............



Can't change the facts, no matter how many of you type.

[Goatman]

Simple math, start out with 3,000 units end up with very few in 25 years. Start out with todays production numbers 300,000 end up with more in 25 years like the 65-66 mustangs.


300,000? Really? And apparently you're not old enough to read production figures correctly. The F-body and GTO were cancelled due to lack of sales......... Just like the GTO in 74' and most of the other POS's shortly there after..........


The similarities are frightening, aren't they?



Don't worry, I don't expect you to actually admit I'm right.

[wick]

Lots of old dudes crying... What a surprise............



Can't change the facts, no matter how many of you type.

Who's crying? As someone said earlier, who pissed in your cornflakes anyway?

If you are happy with what you drive, then good for you. If you don't have the knowledge to work on your own car and need a warranty, then keep driving what you have.

[73ta]

"300,000? Really? And apparently you're not old enough to read production figures correctly."

Just arbitrary numbers to help you with your remedial math. I read just fine.

"Real 1970 GTO: ATS tall spindles, SC&C UCA's, ATS motor plates, 03' LQ9 and 4L60E, with more to come! "

Can't call it a real goat, no Pontiac motor!

"You're presence here is like nails on a chalk board to Pontiac Enthusiasts..."

Chris Casperson
Head puss, Performance Years

Chris might just be onto something!

[Goatman]

VIN says its a real Goat and you can tell Chris where to go for me. And I enjoy giving it to Pontiac "enthusiats" whenever possible.


Thanks

[wick]

Seems you aren't bright enough to build one on your own.

[Goatman]

Seems you aren't bright enough to mention who you're referring too....


And if you're typing to me, who says I haven't?

[73ta]

"VIN says its a real Goat "

Maybe with the original drivetrain, but not anymore. Now its a Chevy/Goat, (Choat).

[Goatman]

Nope, its a Goat, with a Pontiac motor........ :D

Pontiac says so.

[wick]

Don't bother 73TA.

[Goatman]

Finally some intelligence from the Pontiac "community".....


Let me get my waders...

[zbugger]

I think it's gone far enough off topic.