Need help with a Plymouth

[DarkoNova]

Hey guys. I'm gonna start school in about a month, and it's about 25 miles away, and I go Monday through Friday. So basically 250 miles a week, not counting work. The Nova gets somewhere around 14-15 mpg, if I remember correctly, and it needs premium ($3.49-ish here in California :scared: :scared: :scared: ), so I need something more fuel efficient. I figure instead of wasting money on a new/used car, I'd just spend that money fixing up the Duster. :)

It's a 71 Duster with a 225 slant six. Original paint and interior in excellent condition, and I think it's only got around 30-40k on the odometer. Basically, it's been parked for a while because it tore up the front tires bad, so I need to rebuild the front end, get new tires all around, and get an alignment.

I was looking at a PST super front end kit. Any suggestions/opinions on that? I don't remember if it has a sway bar or not, but I'm gonna guess that it doesn't since it's the lowly 6 cylinder model. Any recommendations on those?

I've also been looking for new springs for the front, but I haven't been able to find any performance ones. Basically I need help trying to put together a complete package of springs, torsion bars, shocks, sway bar(s) and tires. I plan on getting basically every suspension piece XV makes for Dusters, but they don't come out for at least another 5 months or so, so I figure I'll do as much as I can with the rest of the suspension.

Oh, and it's only got 14" wheels on it right now. I'd like to go bigger, but I don't want to completely abandon the Nova. :p

Thanks in advance. :)
Matt

[DusterRT]

www.firmfeel.com has a lot of good stuff for those Mopar things; suspension kits, torsion bars and leaf springs, tubular UCA's, beefed up LCA's and K-members, steering boxes, anti-roll bars, and I think they've got a lot of brake stuff too.

Have you checked out the Alter-k-tion? It would be an inexpensive and available alternative to XV's stuff and seems to have a really good reputation. www.reillymotorsports.com

[DarkoNova]

Thanks Travis. :)

I remember reading that torsion bars were like unwound springs, and that never made sense to me because I thought they were used in conjunction with coil springs. I just went out and looked at the suspension and apparently there are no coil springs. That explains why I couldn't find anyone that sells them. :eek: :lmao:

Looks like I'll be getting the .89 or .92 torsion bars. I wanted to get Bilstein shocks, but apparently they don't make shocks for Mopars. I'll call them on Monday and see if they have any that are the right length. If not, does anyone have any recommendations for good shocks? The only "good" ones I can find are Edelbrocks, and I've heard those really aren't that good, lol.

I also considered the Alter-K-Tion clip, but it starts at $3500, and I'm looking to spend $1500-2000 tops on suspension and tires.

Which brings me to my last question, does anyone actually make a performance tire for 14" wheels? :confused:

Matt

[shep]

You might be able to find some cooper cobras in 14

[DusterRT]

There really aren't any good tires in 14 or even 15 inch that will be tall enough to look right (although they may work well..). So the good news is you won't blow much of your budget on tires, lol.

What I hear is a decent setup for low bucks in the front end is a rubber bushing in the LCA, poly in the strut rods, the offset "crash" bushings made by Moog in the UCA set so you get more castor (and negative camber if you need/want it). As far as shocks, Koni as least used to make adjustables for Mopar A-Bodies, but they may have been drag-oriented..it would be something to look in to. KYB's are supposedly decent for the $$. You might be able to get some universal adjustable Afco's or something that would work too.

A caveat of the poly strut rod bushings is that it pushes the LCA back a little so you lose some castor. I don't recall who, but someone out there makes a setup that replaces the strut rod and bushing setup with an adjustable rod and rod end that goes into a machined aluminum adapter deal. Just Suspension might sell an adjustable strut rod setup? www.justsuspension.com/mopar.html


I wish my Duster were in driving condition so I could give you more first hand experience..

[DusterRT]

Oh and the reasoning with the rubber LCA bushings is mostly due to the arcing motion caused by the strut rod; it tends to chew up the harder poly versus the more compliant rubber. Something to consider for a daily driver..

[DRJDVM's '69]

You plan on getting all the suspension stuff the XV makes for the Duster, but you only want to spend $1500 on suspension and tires????

Good luck with that.....

[DarkoNova]

lol, well for now. I don't want to spend a lot of money on stuff that I might replace later with XV's stuff. That's why I'm planning on buying stuff that XV isn't making.

I really think the wheels looko good, but dammit I don't want to waste money on suspension parts if I'm still going to have cheapy rubber. :drive2:

I may start looking at new wheels, now. -_-

Matt

[DusterRT]

Maybe you could do a basic stock rebuild to make it alignable and roadworthy, keep the 14" wheels and take financial advantage of cheap rubber, and just sock away the coin for the XV stuff if that's really what your heart's set on. Then you'll be able to give all of us a good comparison of XV vs. stock! :-)

[DarkoNova]

I was thinking of that, but a stock type kit is still pretty expensive (from PST). I haven't really looked around because I bought a kit from them for the Nova and was happy with the quality so I thought I'd stay with them. I guess I'll look around some more.

Also, does strut rod = torsion bar? I have a Haynes manual and there's nothing in it about strut rods, yet the PST kit says it has new strut rod bushings. :confused:

Matt

[pdq67]

Fwiw, my old RR Buddy years ago took a Feather Duster and installed an OD A833 behind his slant-6 along w/ an auto tranny rearend and commuted to the tune of like 27+ mpg!!

He drove it for years putt'zing along...

I want to say 3.23 gears but I may be off here??

pdq67

[DusterRT]

The strut rod locates the LCA laterally, while the torsion bar acts as the spring in the suspension. Here's an article that was in PHR, which seems to be a respected rag around these parts, lol.

http://www.arengineering.com/articles/tbartango.html

Do youself a huge favor and get a factory service manual..I paid about $50 for mine several years ago, you can probably get them on ebay for about that as well.

Here's a good set of step by step instructions for how to use a Hayne's manual (Chiltons is the same):

http://u225.torque.net/haynes_instructions.htm

[Tomsecks]

Another guy with an A-body!

First off, I've been where you are with my 70' Swinger, so I can tell you what will work. It was a /6 car that I got drivable first, then began to modify.

What brakes are on the car? That would be the first thing I'd look at for a daily driver. Discs will be necessary. There are some good factory options.

Front suspension - rebuild with poly bushings/new balljoints/tie rod ends - poly kit is not that expensive and does make a difference. Stick with the T-bars for now since you're looking to do it for $1500 and the Alter-K is like $3500 alone. Get a set of Mopar Performance T-bars, .92" - .96" dia will be good. Probably cheap out and get a set of NAPA HD shocks for it due to the budget. IF your lucky, it'll have a sway bar on it, so that'll improve things, if not you may or may not want to add one due to budget.

Out back, probably just pop for new springs and matched shocks. Poly bushings wouldn't hurt. I'd look at a set of Calvert racing mono-leaf springs, save some weight and they aren't that much more then a regular set.

Drivetrain wise, the /6 will run, set it up with an auto or an OD 833, some 2.76 - 2.94 gears, and you'll be in the mid 20s probably in MPG.

Those are my thoughts, good luck. A-bodies are sweet.

[DarkoNova]

Yeah, when I was under the car I saw the rods that the lower control arms were "attached" to and figured those were the strut rods. Unfortunately, it has power drum brakes and no sway bar. Though Just Suspension has a 1 1/8" bar (the only size they have) for only $99. Might just get that. :)

Would the Calvert Racing springs be good for what I want to do with the car? I thought those were meant to be drag raced?

I'll have to check the gears when I have some time, I don't remember what ratio they were.

Matt

[DusterRT]

Check this company out..they make caliper brackets that allow you to put disc brakes on your 9" or 10" drum spindles..I think they use late(r) model calipers and rotors so wear parts will be cheap and easily found..I think you'll spend $300-400 after all is said and done but it's still a heck of a lot cheaper than most other options.

www.scarebird.com

[Tomsecks]

The Calvert springs are meant for dragging. But they can be driven on the street just fine too. I run them on my car currently. I believe you still get a simaliar spring rate with them, but under heavy grip they "wrap-up" more due to the single leaf design. Then when the Cal-trac bar is used it works more effectively. But due to the spring rate it still acts the same in the twisties. To me the weight savings, and better straightline potential make it a good choice.

Brake wise, the scarebird stuff is interesting, but I'd say don't go that route. Why? Because of bolt pattern. Being pre 73', you've got a 5 on 4" pattern, few aftermarket wheels are made on that pattern, fewer brake upgrades too. IF it were me, look for a 73' - 76' 5 x 4.5" pattern set of discs. You'll need basically the upper a-arms and spindles off a donor car, the rest of the stuff should be available at a NAPA. The wear parts will be cheap still, you'll get a good set of driving brakes, and if/when you want to go to a bigger rim or set of brakes, you'll have the right spindles to do it - the Alter-k would utilize this spindle. Basically the same money spent on the right OEM stuff as the scarebird stuff and you'll be ahead for the future.

Now this will leave you with miss matched patterns front and rear. But it should be pretty easy to find an 8 1/4" rear that would have the 5 x 4.5" pattern, same donor car 73'-76' A-body would have what you want. Probably can pick on up nice and cheap too. Would want to make this swap once you put any kind of descent power in the car too.

So to break it down:

About 1k in the front:

$150 - A-body spindles w/ upper a-arms
~ $300 on calipers/rotors/pads/etc.
~ $300 on front bushings/tie rods/balljoints
$200 on torsion bars

Use the other $500 for rear springs & shocks all around. Not sure of all those prices, but should be a good ball park.

[DarkoNova]

Awesome info. Thanks. :)

Matt

[Tomsecks]

Check out moparts.com if you want more info. Guys over there are pretty knowledgable, usually very helpful.

[zero g]

These will get you by......and the price is right.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ItemBrowse/c-10101/s-10101/p-100000232085/mediaCode-ZX/appId-10239635/Pr-p_CATENTRY_ID:10000023208510239635

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005965/p-2005965/N-111+1971+200729069+600003427/c-10101

Adjustable front spring hangers and sliders in the rear or a small lowering block will offset the XHD's increased height. I know several guys using these (XHD's) with good results. They are pretty stiff. They can also be de-arched by a spring shop.

Bill Reilly sells about anything you could want for an A-body. Give him a call. He is super nice and a smart dude. He knows his stuff. He also sells QA-1 Stocker Star adjustable shocks that fit Mopar's.

https://www.reillymotorsports.com/store/home.php

[zero g]

He has alot of stuff that is not on his site as far as brake setups etc.. Give him a call.

[DarkoNova]

Awesome, thanks. :)

Matt