Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

[go-fish]

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer
The Recorder
Central Connecticut State University

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.
The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?
You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.
However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.
“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Yelcamino]

Nice. Way to go Toyota!

[molyorange 77]

I figured that HYBRID stuff was a bunch of BS!

[Tony_SS]

Is everything that's advertised the complete opposite of the truth in corporate America? I think so.

[hdesign]

Maybe we should link this to the "Global Warming" thread and cc: the "father of the internet" himself because the "Earth has a fever".

What a joke.....I wonder if we could get a group rate for buying some H2's! Who's with me?

[go-fish]

Mercedes has a Bluetec CDI diesel certified for all 50 states.They are developing a four-cylinder Bluetec engine with 170 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque from just 2.2 liters, and getting 42 miles per gallon.
I have an '03 VW TDI with a 1.9L , 97? HP, and 48 mpg.
The US has switched over to a low sulfer diesel and requires a catalytic converter on all diesels now so the TDI's and CDI's are looking like the way to go if you are an environmentalist. Who would've figured?
When I got my diesel Jetta they couldn't be sold in Cali as new. Now that the diesel is low sulfer and they have cats I guess the left coast can enjoy the diesel revolution too.
The hybrids were brought to fruition because people were thinking outside the box, I believe we are in a good box and don't need to go outside of it to find a "solution" to inefficiency. If we can clean up our box and do some self improvement we won't have to re-invent the wheel and will have better and cleaner results(CDI/TDI,Ethanol) than the ones coming from out in left field(hybrids).

[Chad-1stGen]

Well at least the Hybrid owners get a cleaner home environment even if other countries are poluted more...

[hdesign]

Did a little diggin on this article. I found these so far.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p41q4570n392661q/ …..Nickel plant closure in 1972

http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=91805&sid=81ba18654cfd0d805aada4851d879491 Prius forum….I’m sure there’s no bias here.

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=373610 Hummer forum….same

http://www.newjerseygasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?master=1&category=1175&topic=254570&page_no=1&FAV=N Another discussion of the article

[go-fish]

Well, where does the battery go when it is done? The car is just like any other car so you still need to change the oil. It still has rubber tires that will need to be diposed of just like any other car. Still goes to the junkyard when it isn't useful anymore. It has the same affects on the home environment as any other motorized vehicle and then some because of the batteries.
It looks like the Hybrids are losers all across the board.
Does anyone know where the batteries do go? I am curious.

[Tony_SS]

Send the batteries to Al Gores house.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

That's awesome.

How about this--the government stops regulating diesels and allows many of the European Diesel models to come to the US. How come I can't buy an Audi A4 or BMW 3 series with a diesel in the states? I should be able to.

[go-fish]

There seems to be alot of confusion with this article. It does not suggest that if you want to be environmentally conscious you should buy a Humvee. It even says that the Scion XB(toaster) would be a better choice so there is no slant towards Toyota vehicles.
What this article is saying is that there are better ways to be mindful of the environment and in fact the Prius is not an efficient vehicle when viewing it from a "Dust to Dust" perspective.
I would say a diesel car is the better "Dust to Dust" choice because your typical, well maintained, diesel engine can carry you for at least 350,000 miles. No joke. They are even more efficient today and my 1st generation Jetta with a diesel in it had 300,000 and it ran fine. My '03 TDI is going on 200,000 and while there are some issues with quality in the interior dept. I think it has much more life in it.
The Mercedes Bluetech is looking like a very good powerplant. As for Audi, I know they have some Bada$$ diesels because they have been killing all the gas cars in thier class at LeMans for a couple of years now.

[Chad-1stGen]

I think expecting a hummer to go 300k miles is questionable.

[go-fish]

Agreed. The articles comparison of the two is pointless to me though. If it would have stated all of the facts I would feel the same way.
The nickle plant in Canada was shut down before the Prius was born, but the batteries still use nickle. Where does it come from? Not Japan I am sure of it. So it has to make a journey, on ship or other transportation that runs on what? What is the country of origin? Do they have a governing body that overseas safeguards or do they have standards?
The battery is produced, the car is built, it travels some more on a vessel across the sea.
Do you see where the article is coming from and understand the "Dust to Dust" energy cost.
Sure the author most definately embelished the truth stating that a Hummer's avg. lifespan is 300,000 miles but I bet I could drive and maintain one for that long. It takes proper care and driving style. However the Pius' battery does buy the farm at something like 100,000 miles. What do you do with the old one, where does the new one come from and how much will it set you back? Is the average Prius owner a person that will maintain a vehicle properly over the course of 300,000 miles? We have all seen the little economy beaters that run around that look like they seen the dealer's auction about ten times. The Prius will turn into a hooptie faster than a Hummer.
The whole Hummer thing goes out the window for me though. It doesn't matter. The author suggests you shouldn't buy a Hummer anyway.
The article could have left out the Hummer and the Candian nickle farse and it would've been just as damning for the Prius.

[LowBuckX]

Well maintained yes. Average shlub never changing oil air filter etc etc no way

[Steve1968LS2]

A prius with 101,000 miles on it is just about worthless resale value wise..

How much $$$ to toss all new batts in it?

I'm waiting for the Mr. Fusion.. lol

[LowBuckX]

A "Green" friend of mine is miffed at his Pius. It gets worse gas milage on the freeway than his old civic but is good in the city. But he gets way worse milage than the sticker claimed.

[lowboy]

"well at least hybrid owners get a cleaner home environment even if other countries are polluted more". WHAT?!!!!!! Wow, what a brilliant statement..

[BonzoHansen]

In general, environmentalists never want to hear about the pollution related to batteries of any type, both in making them and disposing of them. You can't convince them to think of the whole picture impact - all they see is a tailpipe.

[LowBuckX]

What about the new laws the EnviroNazis are trying for that will make you replace incandecents with Flourecents.......

Flourecents bulbs have Mercury in them. A few schools last year in my area where evacuated and cleaned up after mercury thermometers where broken. Are we gonna have to have a Hazmat team clean our home after one of those Mercury twist bulbs break.... .

[newbaa]

It even says that the Scion XB(toaster) would be a better choice so there is no slant towards Toyota vehicles.


maybe i'm misreading how you meant to say this, but there would be some "slant" towards Toyota because they own Scion...

[go-fish]

Sorry, tyring to fast for my own good. The writer obviously doesn't have anything against Toyota just Prius, maybe he is one of those Scion nuts that loves thier toaster too much and wants people to join him and his XB crew.

[Chad-1stGen]

"well at least hybrid owners get a cleaner home environment even if other countries are polluted more". WHAT?!!!!!! Wow, what a brilliant statement..

Sarcasm is not your friend is it?

[CraigMBA]

I have a Toyota agency in my Snap On Route. Toyota of Orange, right down the hill from Bad Penny Steve.

The Prius has suprisingly high resale value. Worse for me, the technicians NEVER work on them. Because they don't break.

One came in for service the other day. It had roughly 165,000 miles on it and had nothing outside of regular service.

In a past life, I sold lifttrucks (forlklifts). Electric trucks don't break, and outperform IC trucks in every measureable standard except for one - gradablilty. They don't climb ramps very well compared to an IC truck.

I'm pretty far from being a treehugger, but the Prius is pretty bitchin for what it is. A little ****box car.

[MalteseFalcon]

Looks like we'll be seeing more of them here. Our government just brought in a budget that will give tax rebates of up to $2000 to people who buy fuel-efficient vehicles, with the Toyota and Honda hybrids at the top of the heap. But we'll still get $1000 for buying an Impala.

They've also brought in a gas-guzzler tax for the first time - up to $4000 per vehicle. Trucks are exempt (got to keep the farmers happy), so any hope of discouraging people from driving SUV's is out the window. They'll just buy the really inefficient truck-based version.

And I'm a little nervous about what this means: they allocated "$6 million over two years to increase funding to so-called "scrappage" programs that take old, inefficient vehicles off the roads; "


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070319/budget_environment_070319/20070319?s_name=budget2007

[cluxford]

You guys need to come to my house.

My wife just picked up her brand spanking shiny new Prius on Sat.

She loves it. I haven't driven it yet and will do everything I can not to.......

Here is the irony.

She drives Prius 1.5ltr + electric engine

I drive 2004 HSV Grange (daily) 5.7Ltr + building 68 Camaro with 632 Cube BBC roughly 10.6 litres. That's a mere 16.3 litres just in my cars alone.......

and I now sleep better knowing I am actually looking after the environment more than she is.....wait till I tell her that !!!!!

[Beegs]

I ran into a woman yesterday that has owned a VW TDI for a year. I asked her what she was getting for MPG, She said never less than 43 and close to 48 highway. I asked her if she considered a hybrid and she burst out laughing, her daughter owns a prius and claims it doesn't get the MPG of the VW. This particular VW was her fourth diesel (2 Mercedes, 2 VW) and she stated after having tried and driven the prius she would never consider one over her VW.

[CraigMBA]

You guys need to come to my house.

My wife just picked up her brand spanking shiny new Prius on Sat.

<snip>

and I now sleep better knowing I am actually looking after the environment more than she is.....wait till I tell her that !!!!!

You need to knuckle under and go drive it. :drive1: Then post a review here. You might change some minds, or at least give us a first hand reason to continue hating on the poor little Toyota.

[go-fish]

I loves my TDI. It's a good little TDI.

Really, people need to realize that the diesel cars aren't putting around spewing black soot out of the back. I read on a forum the other day where someone, who would've sounded smart otherwise. was saying how they couldn't believe they were allowing diesels in cars because they are so bad for the air quality.It's just sad really.
Nearly everytime the wife is fueling up her little diesel some guy comes over all freaked, sometimes she plays along with them. :)

[CraigMBA]

Direct injection (diesel and gas) seems to be the future of the IC engine.

I've driven a TDI. It rips.

[surlyjoe]

I had the pleasure of driving an e class diesel as a rental while in Germany. That thing pulled like a freight train. Definitely enough for a dd. Did not check mpg.

[ProTouring442]

I loves my TDI. It's a good little TDI.

Really, people need to realize that the diesel cars aren't putting around spewing black soot out of the back. I read on a forum the other day where someone, who would've sounded smart otherwise. was saying how they couldn't believe they were allowing diesels in cars because they are so bad for the air quality.It's just sad really.
Nearly everytime the wife is fueling up her little diesel some guy comes over all freaked, sometimes she plays along with them. :)

It's pretty funny, when you consider that diesels were never really air polluters in the first place. Yes, they do have a pretty bad NOx reputation, but that has been improved in recent years. They were really ground level polluters! But, as you have already said, that has been pretty much resolved as well.

I thought of a TDI VW, but then I got a company car.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[trapin]

Interesting story. But you know...these stories surface all the time about Toyota and Honda but they don't get a lot of press because they are the media's darlings. I doubt this will raise much of a stink. But imagine if it were a Buick or a GMC that was doing this.....front page news on every major publication in the country.

[MarkM66]

Well, where does the battery go when it is done? The car is just like any other car so you still need to change the oil. It still has rubber tires that will need to be diposed of just like any other car. Still goes to the junkyard when it isn't useful anymore. It has the same affects on the home environment as any other motorized vehicle and then some because of the batteries.
It looks like the Hybrids are losers all across the board.
Does anyone know where the batteries do go? I am curious.

The batteries can be recycled like any other battery. But it's not easy, or free. Someone is going to have to pay for this, and I'm sure a salvage yard won't want these things after they crap out.

[CraigMBA]

The salvage yard recycles batteries too.

[MarkM66]

The salvage yard recycles batteries too.

Typical car lead acid batteries are different then the nickel cadmium batteries in the Prius.

[andrewb70]

I think expecting a hummer to go 300k miles is questionable.

Agreed. If you work the calculation for the Hummer with a more realistic life expectency of 175K miles, it works out to $3.34 per mile.

Andrew

[CraigMBA]

Typical car lead acid batteries are different then the nickel cadmium batteries in the Prius.

They recycle cell phone batteries too.

[Beegs]

Is the Hummer safer than the Prius? IMO I'm willing to sacrifice some MPG for safety.

[Damn True]

They recycle cell phone batteries too.

A Prius is carrying around about 183kg worth of batteries. 28 of these 10"x8" gizmos.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

My cell phone battery is just a bit smaller.

Shall we compare the "carbon footprint" (gag) of the energy required to manufacture and then process for recycling, the two?

[go-fish]

We could just take them 12 miles out and jettison them.

[speedster]

Let's see - What would you want to drive out on a twisty road and then scream down the highway with - a Prius or a xxx hp Pro-Touring car. Tough choice there...NOT.

Motorcycles get good mpg and can drive circles around a Prius too.

[MonzaRacer]

Ok so far I have been laughing about that "piece" of crap. One the Prius battey is a Nickle metal Hydride (NiMH) and as for trashing the environment, well so will your cell phone batteries, batteries for all the video games and other crap people have/buy.
For one the Toyota, Honda and other electric cars use very specialized batteries and only touch on about 5 percent of the battery production worldwide. As for that supposed comparison, well I can tell you that regardless of the vehicle on the road there pretty much isnt a car that will kill you if you hook a mask on the tail pipe (provided the car is warmed up and has properly functioning Emission system) and take a deep breath and get less CO than if you sit by a camp fire or smoke a cig.
Dont get me wrong I think Prius are FUGLY.
But if you actually understand the car and what it represents its a pretty neat device.
OH and as for the thing about the "other motor " they actually have 2 electric motors MG1 and MG2, the first one starts the engine and charges the big battery, the second actually drives the car under specific condiditons.
OH and I have yet to see anyone who can get anywhere near the EPA ratings. If I was buying a car I would firsat deduct atleast 2 mpg off both ratings.
As for a Prius not getting the "rated" mileage my aunt bought one as it got her big break after moving to Cali, and having to either buy a new gas car or get a big break on plates and get a Prius, she got the Prius.
In Indiana it gets 50mpg and that was taking my mom back and forth to docs for her transplant and follow up.
As for a Prius which has MORE room than a Civic and weighs more as a larger car it wont get Civic mileage (and those cars such as I am only 5'8"/5'9" they cramp me up cause they are so small).
As for a Hummer they are just a different body on a Tahoe/Suburban driveline big deal.
Now how about a bill and mae hot rodders use emissions equipment on our cars? Basicly we would never see any big difference except the price of the cats and etc.
Heck Motorcycles are getting Cats now so what they still make power the Corvette Z06 makes 505hp with emissions,,,,hmmm.
The batteries are hideously expensive to produce due to manufacturing process (and related safelt precausions) in the drivability class I had we watched the assembly process, very complicated and detailed .
We were also told thet untill the regular battery companies start producing them the OE are recycling them and supposedly going to rebuild/remanufacter them too.
After a read I think I will pass on that persons credibility. It looks very twisted.
Dont get me wrong the only electric car I like is that one built in Cali that is faster than a Ferrari or Corvette and it looks good too.
Also the Prius and several others with high voltage batteries use electric AC compressors that litterally never leak R134A as they never have to shut off or get any abuse from racing the engine.
A friend is picking up a wrecked hybrid Sierra pickup, the one that shuts down at stop lights. Kind of cool you come rumbling up, the truck/car shuts down the sucker next to you never knows what you have ,you hit the gas and the 3 batteries under the seat startt the engine and you roar away and the other fella is dumb founded.
This one will have electric AC too.
Anyway the chrome (and chemicals to produce it) on your cars is more environmentally harmfull that a plastic encased battery that can be recycled, oh and as for recycling being expensive it sreiously out weights digging up more raw materials to make new ones.
good luck

[Aceshigh]

That's awesome.

How about this--the government stops regulating diesels and allows many of the European Diesel models to come to the US. How come I can't buy an Audi A4 or BMW 3 series with a diesel in the states? I should be able to.

Couldn't agree more dude, couldn't agree more.
More efficient, and less costly overall.

Stronger motors, superior longevity....BUT...that means the big oil execs
won't be selling as much gasoline and they have a stranglehold on the market ;)
It's all about the money......always has been. Hell a BluTec diesel / Hybrid would
get over 100mpg EASILY....but they won't push the technology.

[cluxford]

So I bit the bullet today and drove the wife's new Prius.

1 week old and 300 Kms on the clock (she got it new a week ago).

Real easy to drive, like any new car really.

Drive by wire is excellent...didn't think I'd like it as much as I did, don't get the road feel of a PT car but for grocery getting it is light and really easy.

Fuel economy was awesome, haven't done the maths but I probably drove 60-70 Kms today and the fuel gauge didn't move. Varied between speeds of 20 KPH up to about 110 KPH.

My only complaint, it sort of "jerks" on moderate acceleration when the petrol engine kicks in...it runs purely electric till you get to 30 KPH or you give it a boot full.....it's not a smooth transition, even on slow acceleration...it's not a real jerk but you can feel it.

Oh yeah and off the line.....I got done by a snail....it's a tad sluggish, but mind you I drive a car that has over 3 times the power and way more torque so I guess I can't compare.

Anyway all in all, I agree with the last 2 posts....Hybrids have their place, there are lots of things that ruin the environment....the primary one is a specific called HUMANs. So we can't bag this car too much, I guess they said this about petrol cars 100 years ago when the replaced horses but look where we are know...technology moves on, fuel cells will be next.

All in all my summary is not a bad zippy little get around town car, my wife has done 300+ Kms and has used less than 1/4 of a tank of gas.....so if you buy this to use less gas you will achieve your goal.

Rgds
Chris

[CraigMBA]

Thanks for the trip report.

Like I said, if you live in a major metropolitan area its not a bad car considering its a **** box.