Troubles...

[Steve1968LS2]

These are the times that try men's souls... the ending stretch of a project.

Been working hard to get the car done by the Good Guys Del Mar show and things were looking good. To help get stuff done I decided to trade cash for time and hire an electrician to tidy up the wiring in the car.

Now keep in mind that things like the headlights, turn signals and such worked before the rebuild and mainly required the reconnection of wires. I also wanted a 12v plug added (for a cell phone, etc), the wire ran to the switch for the electric trunk latch, horn button on the dash, wires ran to the various (already installed) sensors, and the gauge wiring cleaned up. Found a guy that charged a very reasonable $30 and hour to do the work and got him busy. That was three weeks ago.

He would come into the shop for a few hours each day, skipping some days. After awhile I got a bill for $405 (13.5 hours). At this point nothing worked, but I did see some new wires and I know electrical can be a pain. Last friday, when I was on vacation, I got a call from him saying that "I'm trying to hook up the speedo and the instructions reference a yellow wire, I can't find one??". I suggest he call Stewart Warner's tech line and ask (what am I supposed to do, he's the electrician and I'm not even there..) Turns out he didn't read all the instructions and there was an addendum about the yellow wire. hmmm.

So Friday he tells the guys at the shop that he want's to be paid again. How much? How about another $900 (30 hours). **** goes out to inspect the work for me and NOTHING works except the gauge lights. No turn signals, no brake lights, the headlights come one in high beam only and are very dim, no horn and worst of all not even the trunk latch was finished (it's a one wire deal, not even a ground wire). **** tells the guy that he needs to speak to me and that I'm not going to be happy. He was right.

Met the guy at the shop yesterday and proceeds to tell me I need to give him $900 more. I say "so, I supposed to give you $1300 and almost nothing works???" He says "well, that's the hours I have in it" and I ask "so how much more $$$ to finish, $1000? $2000?" and he says "I don't know"

So after 43 hours of working on my car he not only hasn't finished anything he doesn't even have a clue what more needs to be done. I asked why the easiest thing on the car, the trunk latch, doesn't even work and he says "It has a bad ground".. that's BS since we tested it during install by toucing the red wire to the battery.. was grounded fine. Then the excuses started (all my fault of course)

"It's wrong to ground the battery to the roll cage, the ground need to be ran to the starter"

"The switch panel is all wrong" (even though it worked fine before.. It's just switches)

"I was just doing what you wanted"

Uh, no... I told him how the car was wired and gave him carte blanch to do whatever he needed to make it work. If an old way to sound the horn was bad then he could come up with a better way. I'm NOT the electrician, I leave technical decisions to the "professionals". I should make it clear that the guy didn't work for Best Of Show, I hired him independently.

So, I'm mad and now behind schedual. I was going to pay him $600 but the more I looked at the work the madder I got. The final straw was later in the day when we started the car. I noticed the speedometer was acting erratic (car sitting still, engine running). When I reved the car the speedo moved! The guy hooked the tach wire to the speedo!!! Those wires even came marked from Speartech.. lol

Anyways, I hate being a jerk and not paying but I hate shelling out tons of cash for nothing. He has $405 and I might pay him another $200 or $400. I know the guy was there "putting in the time", but I think it was just over his head and he was unorganized. My angry side tells me to say "bite me, sue me in court if you want anymore $" but I hate being like that. I think I will have another electrician assess his work and give me an opinion. If it's all junk that needs to be redone he gets nothing, if there was good and proper work done he will get some. I want to be fair without getting screwed. Oh the drama...

So here I am, a week and a half to get my car done enough for Good Guys and I am missing basic fuctions like working fans, brake lights and head lights. argh!!!!!!!

Anyone know a GOOD electrician in SoCal? lol

The only good news is that he guys at Best Of Show had been doing great work on thier projects and I did make some progress when I worked on the car yesterday.

[Rick Dorion]

Wow. Persevere, Steve. I too would struggle about payment for services rendered vs hours put in. I'm hard pressed to understand what he did for all those hours, myself. But, I'd probably give him $200 to cover gas, etc and cut my losses. Best wishes on the completion. I love your car.

[Steve1968LS2]

Wow. Persevere, Steve. I too would struggle about payment for services rendered vs hours put in. I'm hard pressed to understand what he did for all those hours, myself. But, I'd probably give him $200 to cover gas, etc and cut my losses. Best wishes on the completion. I love your car.

I'm torn because I know he put in hours, but there are no results... I don't know why he didn't tackle one thing, like the trunk latch, and got that to work before starting something else. It's like he hopped around from task to task without completing anything. The last thing I want to do is screw someone out of labor, but I have very little to show for the $405 paid not to mention the $900 additional he wants.

[paul67]

Did not take me that long and I did not what i was doing, just read the wiring instructions, and had help from this site , see posts for hidden wiper etc rs lights. I think if you have not already fitted 1 is to buy a kit and rip the old wiring out, from what you saying its costing that would been the cheapest and fastest. For that price if you'd have put me up would have been cheaper for me to fly from the UK and do it.

[BRIAN]

That is a crazy price to wire a car. Wiring is not one of my strong points and I can get it done in a day and a 1/2.


For that price buy an aftermarket harness kit and with all the deletes you will knock it out in a day. Even if you pay someone it will be cheaper in the long run as there is less work in diagnosing problems. Most are simple start at the accy and run the wires to the box. Than tape them up. It is simpler than you could imagine. American, Francis, etc are have such good labeling that it is almost impossible to screw it up. I think Autowire even sells a already done quick harness which has even more done for you. Otherwise you are going to end up with patchwork. Can't seeing you want that on a car of that level. Plenty of sponsors on here to step up? Big exposure car.

By the way if it is electric speedo it's entire wiring and ground systen has to be islolated. Can't share any wires with any other gauges or you will have feedback. Even run the sensor wire away from the rest of the bundle.


Good luck and I simply wouldn't pay him. Too many people in this business who think they are professionals and expect that level of pay but are lost at what they do or are full of excuses that cost you money. I can think of one that did the same to me. Just walk away.


Brian

[trapin]

Steve...do NOT pay him that $900. Too many crooks in this world...and this guy is a crook who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Give him $100 for gas money and FIRE HIM RIGHT ON THE SPOT. If he wants to take you to court...than go to court. It's no big deal...just Small Claims Court. Even if you lose, no way you pay the $900. The judge will likely lower the price to as much as half of that.

[MarkM66]

Hours don't mean sh#t if something isn't getting accomplished. Are you paying for his "on the job training?"

That A-hole has some nerve to even expect that kind of money, for doing nothing.

[baz67]

I agree with Tony here. Give him some "good will" money and be done with it. If he does take you to court the judge will ask him a simple question. "Do you have a signed contract/work order? No? Sorry. I rule in favor of the rag writer that cannot spell schedule correctly."

[Rolling_Thunder]

I agree - dont pay him the $900 The shop I work at is in Southern CA - We are pretty busy - If you NEED somewhere shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

$30.00/hr? damn... thats some pretty cheap labor... most places I know in SoCal seem to charger between $75-$100/hr for electrical work...


I managed to wire my car with basic functions in two days... 23 hours with a painless kit (not one of those plug it in ones... they didnt offer one for my Mopar at the time so I used a universal one)

Steve - does the car need to be DONE for the show ? or does it just need basic functions ? What exactly needs to be done ? everything ? does it run ? just wiring accessories ?

[ZZ430]

Hours don't mean sh#t if something isn't getting accomplished. Are you paying for his "on the job training?"

That A-hole has some nerve to even expect that kind of money, for doing nothing.

Exactly!

I'm in the business. I do everything including wiring. I could wire 2 cars in that time.

That is totally ridiculous.

Results are all that matter, not how much time a low-ball artist had in it.

[72NovaSS]

I agree with Tony here. Give him some "good will" money and be done with it. If he does take you to court the judge will ask him a simple question. "Do you have a signed contract/work order? No? Sorry. I rule in favor of the rag writer that cannot spell schedule correctly."

Haha I like you sarcazm Baz!

Steve, pay him for gas, a bag of chips, and a soda for the drive back to his house and fire him. Nothing more nothing less.

[Steve1968LS2]

I agree - dont pay him the $900 The shop I work at is in Southern CA - We are pretty busy - If you NEED somewhere shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

$30.00/hr? damn... thats some pretty cheap labor... most places I know in SoCal seem to charger between $75-$100/hr for electrical work...


I managed to wire my car with basic functions in two days... 23 hours with a painless kit (not one of those plug it in ones... they didnt offer one for my Mopar at the time so I used a universal one)

Steve - does the car need to be DONE for the show ? or does it just need basic functions ? What exactly needs to be done ? everything ? does it run ? just wiring accessories ?

Basic functions.. headlights, side markers, tail lights, brake lights.. Oh, and for the cooling fan to activate at temp.. or at least be able to force them on.

My car is fairly simple, no ac, heat, dome light, stereo or any of that jazz.. the engine is completely wired and fine thanks to the harness from Speartech.

So, you think he could of been done in 43.5 hours? lol

[Steve1968LS2]

I agree with Tony here. Give him some "good will" money and be done with it. If he does take you to court the judge will ask him a simple question. "Do you have a signed contract/work order? No? Sorry. I rule in favor of the rag writer that cannot spell schedule correctly."

Hell, I can't speell "spell" correctly ;)

Thank god for spell-checker.. :woot:

[Rolling_Thunder]

Basic functions.. headlights, side markers, tail lights, brake lights.. Oh, and for the cooling fan to activate at temp.. or at least be able to force them on.

My car is fairly simple, no ac, heat, dome light, stereo or any of that jazz.. the engine is completely wired and fine thanks to the harness from Speartech.

So, you think he could of been done in 43.5 hours? lol

Yes - yes - yes.... 43.5 hours... thats a joke.

[bookends]

Steve I feel for you, this guy needs to be fired before he burns your car to the ground! I know a great electrician, only he's in Ga.

[LMDGUY]

WOW.. i wouldnt pay him full price, like they said some "goodwill money" if he couldnt wire up the speedo correctly i dont think you want him to wire up the rest of the car.

[aonghus]

It should take someone who has a basic idea of automotive electrical systems, maybe 40 hours to do the job beginning to end. Hell, I wired my car before I took it apart in 30 hours with a painless kit. Everything worked.

[Steve1968LS2]

It should take someone who has a basic idea of automotive electrical systems, maybe 40 hours to do the job beginning to end. Hell, I wired my car before I took it apart in 30 hours with a painless kit. Everything worked.

That's why I was so shocked.. I would have gladly paided the $1300 if even most of the stuff was done.. Heck, I would have paid $2000 if everthing was done, working and done nicely. I don't even have brake lights or headlights.. lol

Oh well, live and learn. I'm sure the guy thinks I am ripping him off. He was pretty much an excuse machine and had zero remorse that after 43 hours nothing was done to a working stage.

[ironworks]

Well you could bring it to bakersfield and have some hillbillies work on it. My electrical guy could get it all fixed for ya this week. So you could still make Del Mar. Just a thought. But we don't work for free.

I never heard back from you when I returned your call a few weeks ago about Johns Nova.

Good luck

Rodger

[Steve1968LS2]

Well you could bring it to bakersfield and have some hillbillies work on it. My electrical guy could get it all fixed for ya this week. So you could still make Del Mar. Just a thought. But we don't work for free.

I never heard back from you when I returned your call a few weeks ago about Johns Nova.

Good luck

Rodger

That cause I talked to John and he 411'd me on the Nova. I made sure to get your shops website into the story.. does that get me a discount? lol

And I fully to expect to pay for work done, I just expect a certain amount of stuff to get done for a certain $$$ amount :)

[dropit69]

i could wire an entire house in that amount of time ..holy crap...give him cab fare and send his ass packing..sorry for your troubles ..what a way to come back from a realxing vacation..

[aonghus]

Steve, I've been reffered to a shop called Kennedy Auto Electric.

4855 Ruffner St # D
San Diego, CA 92111
(858) 565-6145

I've had a dozen or so shops/people tell me about them. Might be worth a call, see if they'll go up to BOS.

[MonzaRacer]

Hey Steve you could have flew me out to CA had me fix it up, kept me in a decent hotel, bought good meals and flew me back to Indiana and still been under $2000.
Heck I could have done it in a weekend (and I would have gotten in some touristy stuff too), after having been out of work for a month.
Man this guy is soaking you, and then some.
Lee

[ironworks]

Well if we can be of help let me know. less than 2 weeks to go. i'm going to try and have my truck in a booth down there. We will see.

Rodger

[Rolling_Thunder]

Steve - sent you a PM - Our door is always open if you need something done.

[BA.]

wow. what a horror story Steve. :(

he obviously doesn't have the skills to even be called an electician in the simplest sense. I'd think a small claims judge (if he tried that) would be able to see through his guise with the data you have.

Hope you get'er done in time for the show bud.

[DJ Mabe]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Steve. The possitive side of this is that you are still in control. You get to decide if he get's paid or not. I would have a hard time giving him the money but, if he did put in the time you may want to give him something. Only if some of his work is good.

I just got stuck holding the bag on my project. The guy tells me 3days of work to put in a passenger window, allign all other windows, vent wings and put weather stripping on the car. I get the call 2 weeks later that my car is done and they bill is for 48hours!:eek: Needless to say I was shocked but he had my car in his shop and I just want to get it done so I paid. Now I have to find someone else to allign the window he put in. Sorry to spill my problems in your thread but, I just didn't want you to think you were alone.:seizure:

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

whoa steve..

i HOPE you dont pay homeboy..

[David Pozzi]

Steve,
He's the one who said he could do the job and obviously he can't. Don't pay him over $100, I wouldn't pay him anything. It's going to cost you more money to fix what he screwed up!
David

[zbugger]

Steve, talk to this guy. He wires racecars. He just moved to El Cajon.

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/member.php?u=11399

Oh, and I could have done that faster.

[rockdogz]

Steve, that sucks... and I agree with the others - don't pay for no work!

[Gonzostyle]

Maybe I am being a little harsh but personally I would not pay him anything AND I would ask for the $450 that was already paid. If systems worked before he got his hands on the car then all he did during that time was screw stuff up.
Think of it this way, would you pay some guy a bunch of money to key your car and let the air out of your tires??


-Jeremie

[Steve Chryssos]

40 plus hours pay for zero results? That is some crackhead logic there boy. Look at it this way. If you pay him, he will use your money to buy drugs. So, inadvertently, you will be supporting the illegal drug trade. :fart:

[MrQuick]

Steve, talk to this guy. He wires racecars. He just moved to El Cajon.

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/member.php?u=11399

Oh, and I could have done that faster.
Sorry to hear about that Steve, its so hard to find good reliable work these days.


I agree and we would have charged half that...heres an idea, put a mat and food/water dishes out by the car and have Allen do it. It took him 12 hours to completely wire a 67. Think of him as the wire fairie.

[Steve Chryssos]

Why, does he have a thing for Matt?

[CraigMorrison]

40 plus hours pay for zero results? That is some crackhead logic there boy. Look at it this way. If you pay him, he will use your money to buy drugs. So, inadvertently, you will be supporting the illegal drug trade. :fart:

And who is involved in the illegal drug trade? Terrorists!

You might as well send the money directly to Osama Bin Laden....

[baz67]

Wow, only here can we go from feeling sorry for Steve to having him support terrorism.

[BonzoHansen]

Wow, only here can we go from feeling sorry for Steve to having him support terrorism.
That's high performance.

[MickyT]

I had a semi retired professional wiring guy with carpal tunnel problems in his hands install a complete painless kit in 30 hours including wiring all of my after market gauges, power seats etc. He charged me $30 per hour cause (as he put it Im only working at about 1/2 speed so the rate is 1/2). Everything worked and was professionally bundled, soldered, shrinkwrapped etc. No more $$ for that guy you have, thats ridiculous.

[Damn True]

And who is involved in the illegal drug trade? Terrorists!

You might as well send the money directly to Osama Bin Laden....

Damn, you got to the joke before I did.

[Jim Nilsen]

If the guy is unable to do your wiring in that much time he is definately going to be unable to withstand the court system and if he is crying because you don't pay him ,just tell him he should have learned to color within the lines in his coloring book instead of believing his mother and thinking an incomplete and shoddy job is acceptable !

Teach him what shame is and don't pay him !

[go-fish]

I don't think his efforts so far merit any payment but if you do decide to pay him, do it like he works.....slowly. 15 dollars a week or something. He would probably just get annoyed and stopping coming after it.

[BMF Machine]

That cause I talked to John and he 411'd me on the Nova. I made sure to get your shops website into the story.. does that get me a discount? lol

And I fully to expect to pay for work done, I just expect a certain amount of stuff to get done for a certain $$$ amount :)


MMMMMmmmmm, whens this Nova Issue coming out? Just wondering???? P.S. do not pay the Crack head wiring guy a single penny! Not even a Canadian penny!(Bad-----Penny) lol

Sorry bout that?

[jeff s]

Doing wiring right takes time. Last time I paid someone to wire a car cost me $3800.

[bookends]

that is true but that was probably starting from scratch, bad penny had wiring it just needed to be cleaned up, everything worked. 40+ hours later and nothing worked anymore! this guy is a fire hazard.

[ACEFOOTER]

Heck I would have paid you to be able to wire Penny. I agree about not stiffing some one on labor but if they mis-represent their skill level then you should not pay. $100.00 travel expenses on top of what you have already paid sounds more than fair. Good Luck at the show!

[Martin71RS]

Jeff, next time call me!! for that money I will fly in from the Netherlands and do the wiring for you :seizure:

I know doing it right will take time.....but 3800$ ?:scared:

Martin

[bigvegan]

Dude, don't pay that wiring guy.

If he tries to take you to small claims court, he'll have to account for his time. He can't just say "Oh, I worked on it," he'll have to explain exactly what it is that he did, and most likely the judge won't look too kindly on spending a few grand worth of time to start with a car with numerous electrical problems at the beginning, and leave with a car with numerous electrical problems at the end.

Most likely he won't, a) becaue he knows he's in the wrong on this one, b) becaue filing a claim involves time and paperwork, and c) it's a little awkward to have judgments against you on the public record if you're hoping to provide services to other people.

Assuming he wasn't completely under the table, try a claim with the BBB.

Good Luck.

[Bob Johnson]

I agree with Tony here. Give him some "good will" money and be done with it. If he does take you to court the judge will ask him a simple question. "Do you have a signed contract/work order? No? Sorry. I rule in favor of the rag writer that cannot spell schedule correctly."
lmao

[Steve1968LS2]

Doing wiring right takes time. Last time I paid someone to wire a car cost me $3800.

That's about right. My new guy said about 40 hours to do a whole car from scratch with all new custom wire. That includes power windows, basic audio system, AC, Heat and all that jazz.

Before we started my front lights worked fine but the wiring was cut loose to pull the front end. The tail lights worked and all the engine wiring was already done and working minus wiring in the fans. Add in that I don't have any real accesories and I think the guy should of had more done, much more, in 43 hours. To spend that much time and have almost nothing function, not to mention having no clue how much longer it would take to finish, is unacceptable.

[Steve1968LS2]

Jeff, next time call me!! for that money I will fly in from the Netherlands and do the wiring for you :seizure:

I know doing it right will take time.....but 3800$ ?:scared:

Martin

It all comes down to the hourly rate.. $3800 is 50 hours at $75 an hour. :shrug:

[GT500KR_Vert]

and technically he owes you a refund for the poor work he did. Don't pay him and if he threatens to take you to court you can counter sue for a refund and let him know that. You also will have an invoice from your new guy explaining how the previous work had to be redone because it was wrong. I had to do this with my last car; the guy restoring it wouldn't return my phone calls and then when I came to pickup the car he had butchered it beyond repair. Gave him a check and canceled it immediately to avoid a fight, brought it home and got an estimate for repair, he took me to court, I countered and the judge dropped a $5000 bill to $900 because of parts, which were unusable, but could have been worse.

[Martin71RS]

It all comes down to the hourly rate.. $3800 is 50 hours at $75 an hour.

When you put it like that Steve I can see where it comes from... but that is a shop (professional) rate I guess? And when they take 50 hours it should be a very nicely executed job.

Martin

[zero g]

The question is where did you find this guy and how did you get the idea he knew what he was doing?

[Whistler]

I'll do it for a plane ticket and a ride to the shop. :)

[Bow Tie 67]

Steve,

It's to late for me to read all the replies but after reading your post, screw the guy. ( no I don't think you would be by not paying him ) Why in the He** should you pay for this moron to send himself to school on your car. I do this type of work for a living and have numerous hours in the wiring on my car, after 43 hours there should be more progress. The fact he wired the speedo wrong and did not read the supplement about the yellow wire tells me he should not be charging for his work. After all in my book hes not a professional and therefore has no right charging for backyard maintenance. ( if you can even call it that ) Save your hard earned cash for someone who will do the wiring justice. If not I have some oceanfront property in Arizona.

Matt

[BA.]

droppin knowledge on yo azz!! dat's how we roll yo.