Upate on Lowbuckx [Archive]

LowBuckX

03-08-2007, 10:13 PM

I have to finish weld and paint or powdercoat. But here are my LowBuck g-braces. Anyone keeping the lowbuck total Add $55 + powder coat.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Mounted on UCA cross shaft with 1" c channel I had hanging around from a tool I built
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

SatisTraction

03-09-2007, 08:45 PM

i am just curious what you think that will do mounted to a flimsy firewall and to one bolt with flimsy channel? It does look kinda cool.

LowBuckX

03-09-2007, 08:50 PM

That channel is far from flimsy. It is used as corner supports for glass buildings.
The bars are also tied into where the fender mounts to the firewall. The strongest part of the firewall.
Argue with HerbAdams on the engineering and speak about flimsy with his bars. Look at what he used for his UCA mounts.

Not said in anger but as Matter of fact

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/02/d2b9_3-1.jpg

I also used way stronger tube and he had the convenienc of a straight shot to everything

These are not crash protection if that is what you are thinking

ProTouring442

03-10-2007, 05:02 AM

i am just curious what you think that will do mounted to a flimsy firewall and to one bolt with flimsy channel? It does look kinda cool.

I am of the opinion that you were not in fact intending to derogate LowBuck’s efforts or ideas with your post. Nor do I think you intended to insult LowBuck. However, your post does demonstrate a tendency towards what can only be described as arrogance. Please explain your intentions so we might find your post to be a bit less contemptible.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
’72 442 “Inamorata”
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442

ProTouring442

03-10-2007, 05:09 AM

LowBuck,

Pretty cool! If you haven't already, look under a GM B-Body station wagon. They used a brace that went from the front cross member, to the rear lower control mount, to the frame. I'm thinking this would work nicely with your braces, along with solid body mounts. It seems to me that you will have to utilize solid body mounts to keep from cracking the firewall. I also seem to remember Mr. Adams also used these on his T/As.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
’72 442 “Inamorata”
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442

neki67

03-10-2007, 05:14 AM

Great, exactly as I'm planning to do for my car!

LowBuckX

03-10-2007, 07:29 AM

SatisTraction

03-10-2007, 08:33 AM

69Nova

03-10-2007, 08:49 AM

Very cool. I defintly want to hear your thoughts about them after you drive the car.

LowBuckX

03-10-2007, 03:11 PM

no offense meant to the guy. I just do not think it will do anything to help the car. all it does is add weight and will flex the body if the frame flexes. now if he could have tied the two control arm mounts together and then triangulated to another point it could have had some performance value. this reminds me of the strut tower brace on mustangs, however this brace is not as tied together.

Have you even heard of Herb Adams. I think he knows a bit more than you or I with this engineering thing. These dont do anything that a strut tower brace is supposed to do.

SatisTraction

03-10-2007, 04:06 PM

These dont do anything that a strut tower brace is supposed to do.

see we agree on that :cool: can you tell me what they do?

protour_chevelle

03-10-2007, 04:42 PM

see we agree on that :cool: can you tell me what they do?

Prevent vertical movement of the front subframe I'm guessing.:yeah:

LowBuckX

03-10-2007, 05:40 PM

see we agree on that :cool: can you tell me what they do?

Since imagination and geometry escape you enjoy my little illustration

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

SatisTraction

03-10-2007, 05:57 PM

so you think that whatever flexes your frame will not have the force to flex a sheet metal firewall? if you had a cage and tied it to the cage then you would accomplish your goal.

and if that red car belongs to herb adams i know all i need to know about his engineering.

try this. unbolt them from the control arm mount and then see how little force it takes to flex the firewall. i bet a 3 year old could do it.

LowBuckX

03-10-2007, 08:19 PM

Im not here to argue with you and I didnt ask you for your opinion.

TonyL

03-10-2007, 08:41 PM

No sense arguing a point that has been made for oh, Say about 25 years or so. It's only been a popular, proven technology and mod for that long.

Ever hear of a Fire-am? Can one brace flex a fire wall? sure. but the fact they are BOTH tied to the firewall make the whole thing a system. It works. It's a simple as that.

71dusterdan

03-10-2007, 08:57 PM

lowbuck that is sweet , how did you end up bending them? nice job bro. Dan

ixfn

03-10-2007, 09:10 PM

You can never put down any man's efforts :smoke:

Regardless of the "technicalities" you know those reinforcements are doing 'something' as oppsoed to nothing... right? :)

I will add that the 110v AC outlet and mess shown in the 'red' car has me a little terrified :seizure: Does make me wonder what BOP/C engine was in there :secret:

LowBuckX

03-10-2007, 09:43 PM

I will add that the 110v AC outlet and mess shown in the 'red' car has me a little terrified :seizure: Does make me wonder what BOP/C engine was in there :secret:

Me too https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28327

formula

03-10-2007, 09:53 PM

hahahaha...the basic flaw in one side of the thinking in this thread makes a humble engineering student like myself giggle.

Here's one theory presented in this thread about how these braces apparently work. We'll call this the "gnorw" theory, in honor of the school of thought it comes from.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/wrong-1.jpg

This diagram is designed to show how a force acting on the frame would affect the firewall, according to this school of thought's opinion. According to this diagram, the braces are obviously pointless.

Now, here is the second school of thought's idea. We'll call this one the "ytilaer" theory.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/right1-1.jpg

Now in this first shot, you can see how, according to this school of thought's concept, the force of the frame pushing up would, THEORETICALLY MIND YOU, be distributed throughout the firewall, through two different points.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/right2-1.jpg

Now, here comes the really wacked out part of this school of thought's theory. According to them, the motion of pushing UP on the bar would actually produce a force that would push BACK on the braces! CRAZY TALK YOU SAY? Not to these wackos. They actually think they can change the direction of the force with a simple metal bar.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/right3-1.jpg

Finally, these nut jobs point out that, since they're using their "magic force changing directional metallic tubes" and their "super fancy force spreading mounting points", you would ultimately have to CRUSH THE ENTIRE FIREWALL REARWARD INTO THE BODY OF THE CAR IN ORDER TO GET ANY VERTICAL MOVEMENT OF THE FRAME. And since that entire firewall is supported by, oh, buttloads of metal, that's pretty much impossible.

I believe we can all see how simply preposterous this is. since these magic force tubes are only supported by, oh, say, the laws of physics (which are highly suspect these days, apparently!), there is ultimately no reason to even presume the second school of thought might be right.

Herb adams, how could we have ever trusted you? After your decades of race experience and completely revolutionary designs that are time-tested and the basis for a massive chunk of racing technology even today, the "gnorw" thinkers have finally shown you for what you truly were: a BIG FAT STINKY FAKE.

You know what? I bet ol' smokey yunick was just as big of a liar. I shall never trust another racing legend, ever again.

Remind me to throw my chassis braces out in the morning. In fact, I'll just go ask my 3 year old to yank them out for me.

edit: by the by, that red car is not herb's. Here are a few of his...

laguna seca, circa 1983. He probably snuck the car onto the course
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/1983_herb_adams_pontiac_transam_laguna_s-1.jpg

oh, and here it is again at sears point...so you can see the other side. Agan, I'm sure his car didn't actually race there, or anything
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/1983_herb_adams_pontiac_transam_laguna_s-2.jpg

here's his avante, from mid-ohio, 1984. Obviously a poseur.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/1984_herb_adams_chevy_avante_midohio-1.jpg

here's one of his earlier birds...at watkins glen. In this one, you can really see how little thought must have gone into making the car fast. Gosh herb, you're such a slacker.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

oh, and here's his book...filled with mindless drivel, no doubt.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/155788055701LZZZZZZZ-1.jpg

LowBuckX

03-10-2007, 10:03 PM

Finally, these nut jobs point out that, since they're using their "magic force changing directional metallic tubes" and their "super fancy force spreading mounting points", you would ultimately have to CRUSH THE ENTIRE FIREWALL REARWARD INTO THE BODY OF THE CAR IN ORDER TO GET ANY VERTICAL MOVEMENT OF THE FRAME. And since that entire firewall is supported by, oh, buttloads of metal, that's pretty much impossible.

I believe we can all see how simply preposterous this is. since these magic force tubes are only supported by, oh, say, the laws of physics (which are highly suspect these days, apparently!), there is ultimately no reason to even presume the second school of thought might be right.

Herb adams, how could we have ever trusted you? After your decades of race experience and completely revolutionary designs that are time-tested and the basis for a massive chunk of racing technology even today, the "gnorw" thinkers have finally shown you for what you truly were: a BIG FAT STINKY FAKE.

You know what? I bet ol' smokey yunick was just as big of a liar. I shall never trust another racing legend, ever again.

Remind me to throw my chassis braces out in the morning. In fact, I'll just go ask my 3 year old to yank them out for me.
__________________

^^^^ thats funny right there I dont care who you are. Thank you for putting it in a way I cant. :cool:

TonyL

03-10-2007, 10:21 PM

LOL

Good post.

MalteseFalcon

03-10-2007, 10:30 PM

Really enjoyed that, Formula :twothumbs

snip

and if that red car belongs to herb adams i know all i need to know about his engineering.

snip

Actually, the red car doesn't belong to Herb Adams. Just one that showed up on ebay a while back that had some of the parts he used to sell.

Here's one that he did own:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/Fiream20-1.jpg

ProTouring442

03-11-2007, 04:49 AM

Solid Mounts and subframe connectors already inmstalled...
I will have to try and find a pic of what you are taking about on the other brace.

Thanks PT442 Neki67 Go for it

I'll dig around and see what I can come up with... I was sure I took pictures of the ones I used for the 442, but they aren't on the computer. If I find one, I'll have it scanned and post it.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
’72 442 “Inamorata”
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442 (http://www.fquick.com/ProTouring442)

David Pozzi

03-11-2007, 09:51 AM

I've seen a few of these braces on cars, one of them is on a buddy's 69 camaro who open tracks the car, the firewall is not damaged at all. I would recommend however that you make the firewall brackets a bit wider on the inside tubes to reduce the chances of any localized bending of the firewall.

Also note the Adams tubes are straighter than yours, this helps the stiffness a lot, try to make yours as straight as possible.

Herb Adams was and is a real suspension engineer who has more credentials and experience than most aftermarket "tuners". That said, he's only human and in my opinion he's better at engineering than fabrication. By that I mean his parts are based on solid theory but a more skilled fabricator would be able to produce a nicer looking part.
David

LowBuckX

03-11-2007, 10:23 AM

Point taken But I cannot make them any straighter because I have to go around stuff.
As for the mounting point on the inside bar I will be reinforceing the wall from the inside to distribute to pressure yet be unseen

Beige

03-11-2007, 12:13 PM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/right3-1.jpg
It's possible one of the arrows on the firewall is backwards. The bars may act as a class 2 lever meaning the lower firewall mount would be pulling instead of pushing on the firewall.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Since your mounts are close to horizontal, (guessing a 15* angle) the upward force at the control arm mount could rotate along that plane like a hinge.

If either of those assumptions are true, then moving the lower bars further down the firewall might improve their effectiveness. I'd also like to add that I'm a fan of Herb Adams and I have no reason to doubt his engineering ability.

try this. unbolt them from the control arm mount and then see how little force it takes to flex the firewall.
Even if you don't agree with him about the usefulness of the bars, that would be a simple test to see if they worked. And if they didn't work as you expected, you might see how to make them work better.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/Fiream20-1.jpg
This if off topic, but I just wanted to add that I always wanted to see a rubber bumpered Camaro without the bumper running across the grille.

LowBuckX

03-11-2007, 03:06 PM

As per David I have cut off the top mount and made a larger mounting pad and moveid it a bit down the wall.

Lets address the strength of the Firewall. It is not flimsy at all.

See the red I have marked in this pic? You can see where the Wiper machanism/ventilation troff is.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
That Is adding alot of strength Then what I have marked B is the new mounting location with a larger pad.

You can see the internal workings here in this line drawing Ive made. Its not just a sheet of tin tacked up there. The bodys on our sub framed cars are made stronger than you think.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

formula

03-11-2007, 06:36 PM

It's possible one of the arrows on the firewall is backwards. The bars may act as a class 2 lever meaning the lower firewall mount would be pulling instead of pushing on the firewall.

Entirely true, and an excellent point. In fact, I'd almost think there's no way it could not be acting like a class 2 lever. I actually considered this when making my drawings, but started having more fun than paying attention to detail. I would presume that that's the entire point of the lower bars-- granted, they could still be taking some rearward force, but not much compared to the upper bars. The angle the lower bars make compared to the UCA mounts is pretty severe.

This if off topic, but I just wanted to add that I always wanted to see a rubber bumpered Camaro without the bumper running across the grille.

Ditto! that thing looks really cool...I now have a reason to look for a later second gen camaro to play around with some day.

MalteseFalcon

03-11-2007, 08:06 PM

Ditto! that thing looks really cool...I now have a reason to look for a later second gen camaro to play around with some day.

Its actually a VSE front end:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/03/img185-1.jpg

David Pozzi

03-12-2007, 09:42 PM

I think you need to keep the inner brace attached to the top of the firewall, I feel there is more strength there. I'd just make the mount plate wider left to right like 3" to 4" wide total, and have it cover the top and front of the firewall with a 90 deg bend in it. A reinforcing plate can be put inside the firewall plenum if needed for extra strength. The outer firewall tubes connect to the fender bolt and should be pretty secure there.

The main benefit of these from what I recall is, the increase in torsional rigidity. I'm sure they also help in beaming stiffness but torsional stiffness is most important for handling.
David

rb70383

03-12-2007, 11:02 PM

LowBuckX

03-12-2007, 11:15 PM

Well damn it Dave..lol I just got done with making changes that I beleive will be good.1/4" 2.5 x 3" plate backed with a 1/4 plate of the same size inside.

I think Im staying with this.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Rb In my eyes the tube will be weaker if you made it much longer.

zbugger

03-12-2007, 11:41 PM

Any reason why they are attached to the UCA's? Would it be better if they were moved front more? Like to the bottom of the rad support, but still welded/bolted to the frame?

The reason it's bolted to the control arm stud is because that's where the force is being effected. The force goes directly from the source of the flex to the firewall. The reason on the second gen that it's bolted to the firewall lip is because that is the strongest part of the firewall. It's also bolted to the fender bolt on the firewall. That part is also a reinforced part.

Dave, the first gen firewall is a little different from the second gen for that very reason. I think where Shawn has it mounted is similar in structure to where the second gen bar mounts.

Looks good to me Shawn. Let us know what you feel. I'll bet it's more than you might have thought it would be.

Mr.VENGEANCE

03-12-2007, 11:50 PM

that guy was drinking..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

i really like those bars.. might want a set myself!

SatisTraction

03-13-2007, 02:17 AM

that guy was drinking..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

i really like those bars.. might want a set myself!

no, i just think it is an uneffective mod, i have a junk camaro i may try it on one day if i am bored. I can see it being effective if it was tied to a cage and welded to the frame. with a singal attachment point on a control bolt and bolted to sheet metal i say it is JUNK. it will pivot at the control arm bolt no matter how tight he gets it. that will make the top bar push in and the lower one pull out. now if it is was welded to the frame or mounted to BOTH control arm bolts it would not pivot there and try to lift the body when the frame flexed. However, as it is now the frame will flex just as much and put cyclic stress on the firewall. Lowbucks original upper mount was better to start with. atleast it was in two plains instead of the single plain that is in now.

that yellow car that belongs to herb is NICE. it is also a TRACK car with a CAGE in it. I would also bet the body is mounted SOLID to the frame.

SO to sum it up, i do not HATE Lowbuck. I do think his design is flawed and I am not jumping on a "cool" band wagon to fluff any egos.

rb70383

03-13-2007, 03:28 AM

LowBuckX - True shorter is stronger.
zbugger - I got it now! duh.....

SatisTraction:
I see where you are coming from as well. I was thinknig that too, however, What about when cages are tied into the floor? To me it seems like the same concept. I do agree that mounting to both UCA bolts would prevent any pivoting the lower mount might have.

LowBuckX

03-13-2007, 07:15 AM

:pat: How many times does one person have to be proved wrong before he goes away. Again I didnot ask your opinion.

nbecker

03-13-2007, 07:15 AM

I think since the car is a unibody that mounting it to the firewall would be effective its not just sheet metal its the car.That yellow camaro makes me want a second gen really bad and dse didnt help by making a minitub kit.I think if you got the bars engraved and gold plated they would add horsepower to

SatisTraction

03-13-2007, 08:42 AM

:pat: How many times does one person have to be proved wrong before he goes away. Again I didnot ask your opinion.

i was gone until i read the bashing i was taking. I agree with the theory behind what you are trying to do. I just do not agree with the way you are doing it. You have not proved me wrong with your fabrication. Do you want to? Take a 0-100 pound fish scale and hook to the control arm bolt hole and pull it up. see how many pounds of force it takes to move the bars. I am not sure how much movement would be considered passing but i doubt the frame flexes more then 1/8" if it mounted solidly to the body.

one thing that concerns me safety wise? how are you mounting it to the control arm bolt? are you using a second nut or the control arm nut? The single contol arm nut is not the best idea. It will pivot there and loosen the single nut. The control arm nut, followed by a washer, the channel, washer, and then a locking nut would be less likely to loosen.

LowBuckX

03-13-2007, 11:01 AM

Ok your defending your self. So leave me and my design out of it. Take it outside.

parsonsj

03-13-2007, 11:59 AM

Again I didnot ask your opinion.Ah, but you did. When anybody posts a "Look at what I did" thread, the implication is that all opinions, informed or not, are fair game.

What are expressly disallowed are personal attacks. SatisTraction hasn't attacked anybody. He has expressed his doubts about your design, and has done it in a non-personal way. That's always fair game, and not only that, it's important that we allow it. It makes for good technical discussion, and lets the rest of the community learn something.

jp

LowBuckX

03-13-2007, 12:43 PM

I dont care anymore I know most people hate my car on this site so I just will not post about it anymore.

SatisTraction

03-13-2007, 01:09 PM

actually i like your car and any budget build

TonyL

03-13-2007, 01:14 PM

most people hate my car on this site

Not. I think your car is just as cool as any other here. And your doing it yourself and that's even harder core. If you stop posting about your work, lurkers will never learn anything except "take it to a shop"

onebad2

03-13-2007, 01:49 PM

I agree..... alot of people dont build their own cars... I like to see when people do it their self!

BADVELLE

03-13-2007, 02:17 PM

I dont care anymore I know most people hate my car on this site so I just will not post about it anymore.

LowBuckX, don't get bent, your skin has to be thick, keep up the work and keep up doing it yourself that makes it the best part!! Even if you don't like what is said, it may make you look at it a different way, right/wrong/indifferent. At any rate, keep us posted on the progress.

LowBuckX

03-13-2007, 02:26 PM

I appreciate suggetions from people like Mr Pozzi and others who know what they are talking about I realy do.
But it seems like if I dont do it exactly like others do or If someone else didnt do it for me Its wrong. I do have thick skin but you can only poke it so much before I get mad. I should not get pi$$ed about one person but he should know when to let it go too.

restomodbird69

03-13-2007, 03:45 PM

its your car so dont worry about how the others would do it.i to am building my own and i did it my way.so keep it up and dont worry about the ney sayers.

BonzoHansen

03-13-2007, 05:51 PM

I dont care anymore I know most people hate my car on this site so I just will not post about it anymore.You are wrong. Keep up the good work.

MalteseFalcon

03-13-2007, 06:21 PM

that yellow car that belongs to herb is NICE. it is also a TRACK car with a CAGE in it. I would also bet the body is mounted SOLID to the frame.

Just a couple clarifications. The yellow car on the Hot Rod cover is indeed a race car - its Herb Adams VSE's entry into the 1981 Daytona 24 Hour Endurance race. You could literally order all of the parts for that car (a "Stage III Cheverra" intended for road racing), except the engine, out of the VSE catalog that year. It has a really impressive full roll cage which is tied to the subframe - and it doesn't have the cowl to fenderwell braces at all.

However, the car that Herb entered in the Adams vs. Gulstrand shootout referred to on the same cover is a Stage II Cheverra intended for autocross. It has no rollcage, only a chrome Hooker 4 point roll bar, and it does have the cowl to upper control arm mount struts.

Edit: One other thing - the VSE handbook says that the F-body subframe can deflect over 1/2 inch at the point reinforced by these struts - and the struts are intended to be used with solid subframe mounts, to eliminate that flex in combination.

BA.

03-13-2007, 08:36 PM

Yo LoBuckX, I like reading your DIY stuff man. Keep it up.

Remember my recent post on basically the same subject? You posted in it....
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27695

I'll be trying to put similar bracing in my car and I will not have a cage. ;) I really dig ol' Herb Adams. Always have. Got a set of swaybars from him too!

neki67

03-13-2007, 11:05 PM

Basically the same comments as BA, only I don't have the VSE swaybars . . . .

Keep up the good work man, you are an inspiration to a lot of us (I'm sure).

David Pozzi

03-13-2007, 11:31 PM

Any reason why they are attached to the UCA's? Would it be better if they were moved front more? Like to the bottom of the rad support, but still welded/bolted to the frame? I might see about doing this to my car. It has a front subframe that is removable, I imagine like Camaros? Dont beat on the Mopar guy:attn: So for attachment to the firewall, a plate inside that is also welded as well would help?

One of Herb's methods was to use as many existing mounting points as possible. His parts were bolt-on as much as possible to make them.

I agree some weld on brackets on the sub might be more convinient and possibly better locate the braces out of the way. I hate obstructions around the engine so these braces are a love/hate issue for me. I love the results, hate the extra tubes in the way.
David

David Pozzi

03-13-2007, 11:54 PM

i was gone until i read the bashing i was taking. I agree with the theory behind what you are trying to do. I just do not agree with the way you are doing it. You have not proved me wrong with your fabrication. Do you want to? Take a 0-100 pound fish scale and hook to the control arm bolt hole and pull it up. see how many pounds of force it takes to move the bars. I am not sure how much movement would be considered passing but i doubt the frame flexes more then 1/8" if it mounted solidly to the body.

one thing that concerns me safety wise? how are you mounting it to the control arm bolt? are you using a second nut or the control arm nut? The single contol arm nut is not the best idea. It will pivot there and loosen the single nut. The control arm nut, followed by a washer, the channel, washer, and then a locking nut would be less likely to loosen.

SatisTracton,
I have some concerns about the firewall strength too, as far as long term durability, but it seems to work well, that's why I suggested some extra reinforcing, and wider plates. The braces don't carry ALL the load, just help carry PART of the load. Again the main "load" I think is important is torsional load. Would it be better if it were tied into a roll cage? Sure, but that isn't going to happen in this case.

Here is where we have talked about firewall braces in the past:
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4974
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8510

rb70383

03-14-2007, 07:27 AM

Not. I think your car is just as cool as any other here. And your doing it yourself and that's even harder core. If you stop posting about your work, lurkers will never learn anything except "take it to a shop"

:candle: I be one of the lurkers :hammer:

nbecker

03-14-2007, 12:52 PM

I enjoy your threads also.Hotroding is all about inovations like yours.

LowBuckX

03-14-2007, 01:49 PM

I wouldnt call anything I do inovation :hammer: Its more of copying/molding to fit my budget. It involves more research than actual wrench time. Thats one other reason I get mad when people poopoo what i do. I copy 99% of it from these pages that everyone on this site contributes to. Nothing new just done in a way to fit my budget

TonyL

03-14-2007, 02:49 PM

Don't read into it too much. Sadly the state of affairs in the magazine world has lead to one feature after another that reads like a advertisement for all the top shops and all the easy bolt on parts. New enthusiasts are born every minute of every day. They read those features, put two and two together and then find their way here. Armed with "that's how the magazine guy did it" everyone is an expert and everyone is SPOILED as to what a car should look like and what parts they think a car should compose of.

It should be our responsibility to show what can be done with cobbled together parts gleaned from parts houses and junk yards, and the knowledge gleaned from the experienced racers among us to achieve the same performance and good looks those magazine cars have.

If we dont, no one will. The days of mags running a "build it yourself with junkyard parts" days are over. They depend on the advertising money too much now. It's up to us to put cars like yours and mine against cars with name brand parts and name brand mods.

Our hobby should never get to the "only the rich can do it right" attitude pro-street got to. If it does pro-touring as we know it will die.

Keep doing what you are doing. Inspiring all those people who need to see that pro-touring can be done on a budget. And done well.

David Pozzi

03-14-2007, 07:42 PM

Tony, Well put!
I have a soft spot in my heart for the "Little Guy".
It might seem I'm pretty well-off because I have a vintage race Can-Am car. But when I bought it in 1974, I was 23 years old, married with a kid and driving a farm tractor for a living. I paid $600 for the Lola in wrecked condition. When I needed a larger rear antiroll bar I went down to the river where the land owners had used cable to tie old wrecked/pancaked cars to the banks to prevent erosion. I found a front antiroll bar on a Cadillac that was the right diameter, removed it and re bent the ends in the farm shop to fit the Lola. I raced with that bar for several years until I could afford to buy new material to make a better one.

On my 67 Camaro around 1974 I made my own solid subframe mounts by finding some thick collars that were used to hold axle bearings on Ford type rear axles. My uncle had gotten a whole bucket of them from a shop in town and a couple of them per bolt worked just right. To make firmer lower control arm bushings I hammered headless nails into the rubber. got that tip from Hot Rod! :)

LowBuckX keep it up! :)
And don't get down if someone questions you or disagrees, it's GOING to happen. We get pretty long on theory here in the forums, but there is nothing like trying it and finding out for yourself.
David

LowBuckX

03-14-2007, 08:32 PM

Thanks guys it means alot to me that people actually like some things I do. I know everyone will not like all of it And in all reality I only do it for my own enjoyment.
I liken myself to the guys of the old days who made things work by them selves because they had to. Some of it worked some of it didnt but thats how you learn. Im not going to be a Smokey or Herb or **** Guldstrand but I make due

LowBuckX

03-14-2007, 08:41 PM

By the way they are finished. I painted them with dupli-color rattle can truck bed liner to help avoid scratches from the inevitable wrench ratchet drop and hammer oops. Ive used it before with good results. i should have done my suspension with it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

ProTouring442

03-15-2007, 02:53 PM

...I painted them with dupli-color rattle can truck bed liner...

Now that's a cool idea!!!! Damn, why didn't I think of it? :hmm:

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

formula

03-15-2007, 04:00 PM

seriously. I've been looking for something more durable than paint that I can spray on my steering stuff....looks like I found my dream spray. thanks man.

LowBuckX

03-15-2007, 04:03 PM

It leaves a texture fyi. Ive not tryed to lay it smooth Im not sure you can.

BonzoHansen

03-15-2007, 06:35 PM

It leaves a texture fyi. Ive not tryed to lay it smooth Im not sure you can.
Hey, will that stuff scratch your hands?

LowBuckX

03-15-2007, 07:16 PM

No will not scratch up your hands.. I have psoriasis on my hands so Im afraid of that to.