Newer chevy truck, junk trans.

[Johnny Blaze]

Just wanted to share.

My dad recently purchesed a truck to haul the race car with.

It is an 03 Chevy Silverado, 1500 4x4 with a 5.3L. Tow package, fully loaded. Auto. It has 21,000 miles on the odometer.

He has yet to tow with it. And the transmission went out of it. It will not shift out of first gear! OF course, since it is almost 4 years old it is out of warrenty. But it only has 21,000 miles on it!

He lives a few blocks from the chevy dealer, so he limped it there, and had the service manager drive it around the lot. He said, lets get you a new truck. They offered to take it on trade and apprasie with a new tranny (which they said they would take care of), well, since my dad has only had the truck for 2 months, they want cash and such too.

I will say I was impressed with what they were doing to get him into a new truck, but then again they were just trying to make a sale.

Anyway, bottom line, the tranny is junk! I got online and pulled up the TSB's for the truck and it was like 3 pages! There were at least 6 for the tranny alone!

He can't afford to get a new truck, so I printed the tsb's off, and told him to take them to the dealer, and tell them to take care of them.

We are both diehard chevy guys, but this really questions their quality as of late. Of course when they killed the camaro, I knew it wasn't the chevy I grew up with, but thats a different story.

SO, if anyone out there has one, you better check with the dealers, and make sure these service bulletins are taken care of before your stranded on the side of the road with a car trailer behind you!

[EFI69Cam]

One should not tow a car any long distance with any 4l60E equipped truck.

[Goatman]

One should read the post one is commenting on so that they know that the truck wasn't towed with.........

[Johnny Blaze]

Well, if the tranny should not be towed with, they should not be putting it in a top of the line 1/2 ton truck with a tow package. Not only that, they should not put a button on the shifter that says "TOW"

I don't care, a new full size truck should be able to tow a trailer. The tranny should not go out at 20,000 miles!

[EFI69Cam]

One should read the post one is commenting on so that they know that the truck wasn't towed with.........


I did.

I also know that the later 60e trannies are barely sufficient for the truck itself. I would not tow a jet ski with the 1500 Chevy truck, but that's just me.

He did buy the truck used, who knows what the previous owner did with it.

[harshman]

Mine went out on my 01 suburban. The dealer has crates you can buy to install with a 2 year warranty if i remember right. I sold mine and got an 07 Tahoe. 21k miles? Question the odometer or find out how the truck was used before. Something doesn't add up here.

[Johnny Blaze]

We did a car fax, it is all right. The truck was owned locally by an old man, who traded it in on a small ford suv. The truck is flawless, you can tell it was never miss treated. It is definatly a fault in the tranny, the fluid doesn't even look or smell burnt, and as I said, I found like 6 TSB's for tranny problems.

[Johnny Blaze]

[quote=EFI69Cam]I did.

I also know that the later 60e trannies are barely sufficient for the truck itself.
quote]

Well, then Chevy need to do something about it.

[Goatman]

I don't believe the trans' are junk for a minute. Might be a computer problem if the fluid isn't burned. Either way, they're pretty strong now-a-days.


I've towed with the 1500 style trucks for years with a 70' GTO and very heavy trailer and never had a problem. I now have a 2500HD with the Allison, so its bullit proof, but the 4L60E is a damn good trans.

[Johnny Blaze]

Well, we'll see what Chevy does about it. My dad, who is a very calm laid back guy, said if they do not take care of it he is going to make a big sign, and put it on the truck saying, "20,000 miles, tranny went out, GM won't fix" and park it across the street from the dealers, and put pics all over the internet, and tell everyone he can.

I will let everyone know what happens.

BTW, before this he had a 99 tahoe that towed with no problems, an 01 1500 that towed with no problems, and my cusion has an 04 that he tows a jeep on 38"s with dana 60's (read heavy!) it has over 120,000 miles and the tranny is fine!

[EFI69Cam]

I don't believe the trans' are junk for a minute. Might be a computer problem if the fluid isn't burned. Either way, they're pretty strong now-a-days.


I've towed with the 1500 style trucks for years with a 70' GTO and very heavy trailer and never had a problem. I now have a 2500HD with the Allison, so its bullit proof, but the 4L60E is a damn good trans.

Thats actually a good point. I have heard of computer "glitches" causing the trans to act broken.

If you can get the dealer to reflash the PCM, that might be a quick solution.

[Rick Dorion]

I hope the 60e is not that bad. I have a 97 I've towed horse trailers with and just turned 115K.

[Ricoch3T]

we pull a 24' enclosed with a 1500 gmc.. you can't be hard on it, but it tows just fine.. cargo is a 2500lbs drag car usually

[blackbeast]

the 700's and 400le have been and probably still are junk. however

spearing GM, because a truck that you knew was out of warranty when you bought it, and it broke just doesn't seem right...

not that I would be happy, but what do you honestly expect them to do?

[68sixspeed]

they seem to either blow early, or live forever... I know of several that towed hard and made 150K+; then again my friend's '02 blew at 35,960 miles... lost 2nd and reverse. The dealer mentioned a heat treat problem on the gears on an 8 week period on those... luckily it just blew under warrantee. I wonder if '03 had the same? (I never had issues with my 95, 2000, or 2005-- the 2000 is close to 100K now)

[malibuplotter]

i have an 02 with 75k, i tow an 18ft car trailer everyday with this truck, i've had anywhere from 7500 to 2500 lbs behind this truck, trans so far has been fine, however the ring and pinoin is getting scary loud, dealer wants 400 bucks for replacement parts, anyone know wher i can get them cheaper? (sorry for the hijack had to ask)
my buddy however has a 97 chev 1500 it's on its fourth 60e.

[69keith]

Those transmission have a electronic gear selector on the side of them where the shifter linkage goes in the case, Its basically a proximity switch that tells the computer which gear you have chosen manuallly and tells the computer electonically. I had one short out after some heavy muddin' and it would not up shift as you described. It's less than a $100 dollar fix unless the dealership is trying to rape you.

[Johnny Blaze]

the 700's and 400le have been and probably still are junk. however

spearing GM, because a truck that you knew was out of warranty when you bought it, and it broke just doesn't seem right...

not that I would be happy, but what do you honestly expect them to do?

Well, the fact that there are at least 6 TSB's for this trucks tranny, they know its a problem, so yes they should fix it. Warrenty or not, a tsb is basically a recall that they are not telling anyone about.


BTW, for an update, GM is fixing it! For free.

[406 Q-ship]

Well John, I hate to tell you this but the 99 your father had before this one had the same trans, there maybe minor calibration differences but hard parts are exactly the same.....so if it was a great one and this one is a POS, maybe it isn't GM. He bought a used truck being it is a 03 model, how the hell did the past owner treat it, can you be sure some lunkhead didn't run it low on fluid for 10k miles, or some "mechanic" monkey serviced it and screwed something up. To be honest can you be sure of its past life?

On maybe helping fix it, check the fuses, on the 4l80e there is a fuse that works parts of the electronics. If that fuse blows the electronic will go into limp home mode which means the trans stays in 2nd gear and won't shift. That is a very dishonest dealer that you took it too, I would have told the service writer that it isn't his job to sell trucks, beside how the hell can he tell that it needs a trans from just a drive, most good mechanics will at least pull it apart before writing the whole thing off. But what a guy they will figure in the new trans, that means you will pay 3500 to get 500 on it for trade it, RUN don't walk away from that dealer. Talk to the Local GM service rep, GM will sometimes cover stuff even after warrenty expires, it may have previous trans problems that were under warrenty so the warrenty continues until problem is solved, or they may descide to cover it due to low mileage. Remember all maunfactures license the dealers, they don't own or run them, so the truth is you have yet to know if GM itself will help with this issue, you can get crappy service even from (can I say it without burning in hell) Honda or a Toyota dealer. I know of which I speak, I used to work for dealers and that is the way it is.

[MarkM66]

My dad bought an '04 1500 new, we still have it and use to tow vehicles with it all the time. Even use to tow a 24' enclosed, which wasn't a good thing, only did that a few times. Never towed in OD though. The truck probably has close to 200k miles on it now. He has never even serviced the tranny.

Might just be a crap shoot with these things.

[CamaroAJ]

i'm the trans tech at the chevy dealer i work for, i've had a brand new truck with 142 miles on it i had to rebuild the transmission on because they messed it up when putting it together. it happens, the dealer can goodwill service work for up to 4 years or 60,000 miles if they wanted to, too bad your far away or i would rebuild it for you on the cheep or talk to my service manager and see if we could take care of it for you. my dad used to tow a 23.5 foot boat that was pretty damn heavy and never had a problem with his transmission, i never did either with the 1500 i had.

[BA.]

Well, the fact that there are at least 6 TSB's for this trucks tranny, they know its a problem, so yes they should fix it. Warrenty or not, a tsb is basically a recall that they are not telling anyone about.


BTW, for an update, GM is fixing it! For free.


WHy do you keep mentioning these mysterious 6 TSB's when for all we know, they are not 6 items just waiting to fail one day.
Not all TSB's are impending doom ya know.

[BA.]

Well, the fact that there are at least 6 TSB's for this trucks tranny, they know its a problem, so yes they should fix it. Warrenty or not, a tsb is basically a recall that they are not telling anyone about.


That's not actually true.

Anyway, glad they are fixing it for your pops.

[MonzaRacer]

No a TSB is a bulletin provided by the manufacturer that document problems that arise in each model so that techs like me can compare to vehicles that are being worked on.
As for locked in first it sounds like an electronics problem not and interanl as these trucks will not shift if the TCM goes south.
I actually had one come in with a small split in one wire to the TCM and it would never shift,,,repaired the wire with proper GM technique and tada the truck ran perfect.
The dealer tried to sell a new trans, another tried to sell a TCM, and another wanted to pull it out and rebuild it. AND NEVER HAD IT DIAGNOSED AND A PROPER DIAGNOSIS NOR A PROPER ESTIMATE!
Good luck an Ill bet it isnt as broke as they made out.
OH and just what were the TSBs for?
Just because of TSBs doesnt condem a car or truck it simply means they are comminucating with the technical service line.
A dishonest dealer is not a good thing.
If you want good performance trannys check this group out, absolutely bulletproof so far as I have found:
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/700MegaRaptor.htm.
Good luck
Lee

[harshman]

I wanted to know how the truck was doing?

Also, I just drove my friend's '01 Silverado 4x4 with a 4.8L that has 218,000 miles on it with the original motor and trany still in it. We hauled a trailer through some mountains and it still pulled very well. To say the least, I am very impressed.

[Johnny Blaze]

Truck is fine. I need to get the list, and post, but a lot of stuf fwas replaced in the trans.

[BonzoHansen]

Interesting post.


We …The truck was owned locally by an old man, who traded it in on a small ford suv. ….On a side note, I never trust a trade-in at another brand dealership, esp. a low mileage one. But that is just me.

[bookends]

I don't know about towing applications but as far as performance apps goes the 4l60e makes a good boat anchor. I killed three in six months with a 12 second f body. one was a stock gm replacement, one was a local rebuild (builder has a very good rep) and one was a tci. all third gear went out. and the shift solenoids were junk. I swapped in a t-56 after the third one died. granted I'm tougher on a car than your average bear, but still three was excessive.

[6'9"Witha69]

I have had no issues with the 60e in my '03 1500, and I flog it whenever possible!

In mass production, there will always be exceptions to quality, no matter who the manufacturer is.

[Goatman]

Especially when you're (no one specifically) an animal with them.......



Built correctly and FOR THE APPLICATION, the 4L60E is just as tough as they come.

[bookends]

Built correctly and FOR THE APPLICATION, the 4L60E is just as tough as they come.

the second two trannies I killed were performance builds, maybe I just had bad luck but it's very common in the f-body forums for problems like this especially when you add high stall convertors. third and fourth gear has fewer clutches so they're weaker. granted these are heavy cars 3400+ lbs, I just wasn't impressed. hopfully like the 2004r they will get better the more the aftermarket plays with them. I prefer a t-56 anyway.
Jon

[6'9"Witha69]

I switched to a 700 R4 behind this motor in Decmeber '99. It lasted until ~March '03. Lots o miles and hard abuse. Went through 4 more in 1 1/2 years without a lot of miles. The last one has been in for a while and is holding up well (fianlly went back to the place that built the first one).

Same thing here, you can have very bad streaks with a partucular trans, and these OD auto are very finicky and tough to figure out.

[scogin918]

For a performance automatic, you can get a 200 4R built to be pretty bulletproof. Check with Art Carr.

[bookends]

yeah the gn guys figured out how the 200 4r, I've got a friend with a t-type that is running low 10's with a 200. still drives the car to work when it's nice.

[CraigMBA]

Nobody fondly remembers the days of getting Turbo 350s to last 50K without rebuilds was cause to throw a party, eh?

The valve bodies on those transmissions are all electronic. If one solenoid stops working or hangs up, you're screwed. Luckily, it doesn't happen very often.

I seriously doubt that transmission is down for the count at 21K no matter how they treated it before you got it.

[brink_79camaro]

My dad had the 4L60E in his truck and he pulled his bone dry 5,600 lb goose neck horse trailer...then added in 3,000 lbs for the horses and also the weight of everything in the living quarters. The truck pulled it just fine even up to 154,000 miles. The again, my buddies dad is on his 3rd 4L60E in their truck with 140,000 on it.