I have a dillema with my paint, major advice needed.

[trapin]

Alright...let me tell the story here. As some of you may know, I had my car painted recently and took delivery of it back in November. I was very excited to see it in paint and was an extremely grateful customer when I went to pick it up. However, on the day I was there to pick it up; I noticed there was something odd about the finish. At first I thought it was just one area but after I got it home I noticed it in other areas. I wasn’t sure if I was seeing things or I was being nit-picky about it. I had some friends come over to look at it to tell me if they saw it and they noticed it as well. I’m not sure how to describe it to you but when you get up close on the paint (1 to 2 feet) you can see that the paint has a “textured” look to it. Almost like the fine texture that your leather jacket would have. It’s not in the clear coat but only in the silver underneath. I’ve attached a photo to show this but be advised it is a macro shot at about 6 inches from the surface. It’s not actually a catastrophe, but I looked at the new Corvette with this color on it and it does have a slight texturing to it but not as much as my car has. I’ve called the painter and talked to him and as expected he was at first defensive about it. He said my job as a surface designer makes me a little harder to please than most customers. But he eventually relented and said he wanted to make me happy and if I wanted it repainted he would do it. He than admitted that he too was not happy with the way it came out when he sprayed it. He said it was a difficult color to spray and he had trouble getting it to lay flat. I’m supposed to call him back at the end of this month because he wants to get me in as soon as possible and he said he’d probably have the car a week to two weeks to respray it and that he “thinks” he knows what to do to get it to lay more flat.

But here’s my dilemma. I’m not completely satisfied with the paint job……but I can live with it. I mean, after all…it IS going to be a street car and get driven a lot. Aside from the finish, the car is straight as an arrow and the gaps are dead on. He is a hard worker and nailed every other aspect of the job it’s just that when he sprayed out the color…something happened. With him saying he’d have the car one to two weeks, I assume he is going to go over the clear (which I’m OK with) but then I am going to have two paint jobs. What happens if the 2nd one turns out like the first…or worse it comes out more textured? My buddy says it’s a “10 footer” paint job. Actually, you don’t start noticing it until about 5 feet. I don’t know….maybe that’s what I want for a car that will be driven a lot. My Dad and Uncle looked at it recently and they think it is fine for what it is.

I don’t know what to do. I guess I don’t know if I can trust the guy to get it right. Maybe I should just finish the car and several years down the road if it still bothers me, hire a bigger shop to respray it.

What would you guys do?

[onebad2]

I think It doesnt look good. But im a perfectionist lol I wouldnt be happy with if I were you.

[Norwoodx55]

I honestly can't really tell from the photo. I'm sure it is noticeable in person. If it is bothering you now, it will bother you forever. Probably better to address the issue now.

[blacklab]

hey there--
from what i can see, i wouldn't accept the paint job.....
first off--what brand of paint did you use? base coat and clear coat--i own a body shop and have been doing restoration work for 25 years....from what i can see, the problem lies within the base coat, or the tech didn't properly sand the vehicle, which would result in that "textured" look. any good painter should have no problem applying even the most complex paints.....as far as having the car repainted, yes, you will have a mil problem, which is the thickness of the paint between two paint jobs--over long term that could hurt you, depending on the climate you're in. without seeing the car, if it was me, i'd give it a good blocking and have a qualified painter re-spray it, or have a paint rep assist in the process if your guy is having a hard time.....
best of luck and let me know if you have any more questions......
scott

[ProdigyCustoms]

Tony, it looks like the base is "cobly". It looks like it was shot to thick or poor quality base or too low a pressure or to close. Probably either to thick or poor quality base. He could easily scuff and shoot it and this time use a different brand base and reduce it more. FWIW, silver is THE most difficult color for this.

[trapin]

Cobly....that is a good description. I seem to remember one of my friends saying it appeared "pebbley" like millions of little pebbles in the paint. Gosh I wish I could post a better picture. I took like 15 of them but it is hard with a point-and-click camera.

I'm this close to just throwing in the towel and telling him to forget it and just waiting until sometime down the road to have it reshot by someone else. I just don't know that I want 2 paint jobs, and I really don't wanna go through the hassle of towing it over there and waiting again. I just want to get the damn car done. I really hate that I'm going through this. By the way....this paint job ended up costing me $7500 after he quoted me between 5 and 6 thousand to do it. That's another thing that makes this hard.

I thought Hot Rods were supposed to be fun?

[TonyL]

Seen it before too. We've seen it in cars that sat too long and started orange peeling before the clear was sprayed. The picture makes it look like you've got "orange peel under glass" going on. I'd freak. But I'm a perfectionist too. If I were you, I'd let him re do it. Give him a chance to clear his name as a painter, not letting him fix it will be looming over his rep forever.

[Jim Nilsen]

If he said he would redo it ,you should let him. The car had paint on it before and is now repainted. The thing that makes me wonder is if the base is sticking to the primer? Delamination with silver is not new. So let him decide what he has to do since he seems to care enough to want to.

It is all part of paint hell that everyone usually goes thru.

[MuscleRodz]

If he said he wasn't happy, then I would be happy either. I know if I am not happy, I won;t let it out the door. It looks like he stopped sanding the primer at 400 and needed to go to 800. As Frank said silver very hard to shoot. I'd let him reshoot if everything else is satisfactory, anyone can have a bad day.

Mike

[CSI:QUINCY]

i OWN A SHOP IN IL. WHAT DOES THE OWNER OF THE SHOP SAY. IF HE IS SAY THAT HE WILL TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM. THEN LET HIM BUT DON'T LET HIM CHARGE YOU ANY MORE MAKE THE PAINT CO OR THERE PAINT SUPPLIER PICK UP THE BILL. WHEN HE QUOTED YOU A PRICE DID YOU GET THAT IN WRITING? IF YOOU DID WHY WAS IT MORE UNLESS YOU HAD EXTRA WORK ADDED THEN HE SOULD STICK TO HIS PRICE. HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO REDO THE WORK GIVE HIM ADEAD LINE BECAUSE HE IS DOING THE WORK FOR FREE DOSEN'T MEAN AT HIS CONVENOUNCE. LET THEM TRY TO MAKE IT RIGHT BE FORE GIVING THE A BAD REP. THE PICTURE IS HARD TO CURE PAINT PROBLEM BUT LOKE LIKE LACK OF SANDING OR WAS TO DRY ON BASE COAT . SILVER IS HARD BUT FOR $7500 IT BETTER BE RIGHT. HOW COME THIS PROBLEM WAS NOT SOLVED BEFORE THE CAR RECIEVED THE STRIPE AND ASSEMBLE. I WOULD ALWAY TELL THE COSTOMER TO STOP BY AT LEASE ONCE A WEEK TO VEIW THE CAR AND CHECK OUT THE PROGRESS.

CSI:QUINCY

LET ME KNOW HOW IT COMES OUT.

[69keith]

Did he not thin the basecoat enough or did he just shoot it dry?

[J2speedandcustom]

By the way....this paint job ended up costing me $7500 after he quoted me between 5 and 6 thousand to do it. That's another thing that makes this hard.

I thought Hot Rods were supposed to be fun?

Tony sorry to see what happened! :banghead: The second pic the car looks pretty good. All paint jobs look like crap in the right light and correct angle. ;)

Looks to me like he either shot a thick coat of sealer or ALOT of base to get that kind of orange peel. Silvers are one of the hardest colors to get correct, they show every imperfection in the body. They also are very easy to tiger stripe or look blotchy from the metal flakes not laying down right.

Don't take it back. That guy obviously doesn't know how to paint silver or for that matter how to fix things when they don't come out correct.

Go enjoy the car! I'd drive the heck out of it and only re-paint it when it needs to be done. :drive1:

[trapin]

Here's another question. If I tell him I've decided not to have it repainted, do I have the right to ask for a partial refund?

[onebad2]

Here's another question. If I tell him I've decided not to have it repainted, do I have the right to ask for a partial refund?

HELL YES!

[CSI:QUINCY]

yes but if I was that shop I would not want that out on the street.

1 customer not happy will tell a hundred. (maybe in this case thousands) 1 happy customer will only tell 1.

[nancejd]

Provided they are willing to fix it for no charge, I think you owe them the attempt. Afterall, put yourself in their place. If you messed up and offered to fix it, and the other party turned you down, you'd be upset. Having said that, I think you should be able to set the conditions under which they fix it to your satisfaction. It is possible to blast a car back to bare metal on the outside only, yes it costs more than just reshooting it, but it isn't like you screwed up the paint in the first place. They should be willing to do what it takes to make the car right, provided what you are asking for is reasonable.

[BA.]

That paint would bug me too. For the money, you deserve something you can show off proudly.


Give him a chance to fix it bro'.


BA

[ProdigyCustoms]

Tony, what base paint brand and line did he use? Many of the less expensive bases, especially in super high metalic (micas) do not break down well. All paints are not created equal, and higher end bases lay out better and more importantly with silvers breakdown finer. He also should be uses a smaller tip gun to break up the metalics. In a gravity feed a 1.2 or 1.3 tip at the most.

It is not going to hurt a thing to reshoot it. He could get by with as little as sanding it with 600 enough to dull it and go, to taking advantage of the oppourtunity to chase a coupe things and block it with 400, finsih with 600 and shoot.

If he does not break through the clear anywhere, he could fog it in with as little as a quart of base. It should only need a coat and a half to "set the color", then clear. You will only add a few mils of material which is no big deal. We often shoot twice, on purpose just to chase little boogers.

I would let him reshoot it. It is only a 2 days job at best. But I would wait for perfect 70 degree sunny dry spring weather, and make certain he uses the best base of whatever paint line he uses.

I do not know if you would want me to, or if he would be willing to, but I would be happy to "talk" to him on your behalf and kinda get a feel for weather he knows what has to be done or not.

At $7500 that is still cheap, but the bottom line is he signed up for it and should provide it, weather he undercharged or not. I know from my talks with you about this project that you probably communicated pretty clearly what you expected. And if he is willing, you should let him fix it.

[68fusion]

Silvers are difficult to spray and keep clean looking. If he had put enough on to get that "peel" it would be streaky with areas of lighter then darker color. What probably happened is he sprayed several dry coats on to cover and keep the surface trash free- as well as avoid discoloration. These several dry coats look good before the base is applied, but clearcoated they show "texture". It's more a thing of shadows than roughness. Silver is the worst for showing this or any light metalic color for that matter, white does it too. No real easy fix that I know of other than to try again.

[trapin]

What I don't understand is......how can a robot get it right on the assembly line and a human being (who obviously has more control over things) have so much trouble? I mean....if the damn robotic arm can do it........................

[hotrdblder]

could be 10 things, to me it looks like the sealer was shot to heavy, and or to high a pressure causing the sealer to partially dry before getting to the car, causing the sealer not to lay out flat.
as said a nice sata or iwata gravity feed 1.2 or 1.3 tip will lay anything out if you know how to spray.
i agree 7500 is cheap, let him block it with 600, shoot 1-2 light coats to settle it and re clear and color sand, you really cant ask for money if he is willing to repair job, you did have faith in him the first time, ask him to get his paint rep in there with you to go over the issue and the fix.
oh ya, robots are really not that good, do they wet sand??

[HILROD]

Unless they changed things, the robot is just re-doing what a human first did. Also the paint o.e.m.s use is a completely different high solids mixing system, and is electrostatic. Unless there is a big mistake, one coat of color, one clear. It used to be every time there was a color change, a human reprogramed the robot. FRANK

[slenning]

Let him redo it!! As far as the refund I own a cabinet shop and a few times we've had a quality issue where a customer says they can "live with it" for a certain amount of money back. NO WAY we will do that. That customer will tell that to everybody they know! We always insist that we will rebuild or repair any issues they have. Our reputation is built on quality and we will not have that story circulating.

As CSIQUICY said
1 customer not happy will tell a hundred. (maybe in this case thousands)

[DusterRT]

What I don't understand is......how can a robot get it right on the assembly line and a human being (who obviously has more control over things) have so much trouble? I mean....if the damn robotic arm can do it........................

Highly controlled environments, and the robotic arm can be (and likely is) programmed to lay down a textbook paintjob every time. Humans are prone to hangovers, mistakes, learning curves, coughs, sneezes, fatigue, laziness, too sore/old to bend over as far as needed...

If it can't be made worse or cause damage that will need to be repaired if it doesn't go right, he should at least be given the chance to try and fix it, IMO. Free of charge, of course.

[paul67]

Looks like it went on dry ,so it did not flow , if he's willing to redo let him , see if he would remove the clear coat and flat the base as to give a good start coat to relay the base, which I would think would only need to be a couple of thin coats not much cost to him only labour then reclear coat. But if you can be there to over see when he's doing it, he should have no problem with that.

[trapin]

Well...here's an update. It's April, and the car is still not in his shop yet. I have spoken with him a couple of times and it seems like he's giving me the run-around. Back in November he was telling me he wanted to get me in as soon as possible and would not take on anymore work until he got to mine. After all these months, I find it hard to believe that no one has slipped in front of me.

I think I'm gettin' blown off here, fellas.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

might have to get gangster with him..

[bigvegan]

The orange peel effect occurs on new GM cars (like the Vette you pointed out, I've seen that on new Vettes as well), so it's more the paint than the robot arm.

Initially, I was going to say, "Hey, if it's a daily driver, cut the guy some slack, and ask him to so the touch-ups you need to do a few months from now once some wear and tear and door dings and pebbles kicked up from semis have had their effects."

Because that seemed like the nice thing to do, and it would be a win win for you and the painter.

But then I saw that you spent $7,500 on the paint job.

If all goes well (knock on wood), sometime this week, I'll be buying a clean 1999 Mustang GT Convertible, with a decent paint job PLUS the ENTIRE CAR underneath it, for about $8k.

Now, obviously I'm comparing apples and oranges here, and there's a lot of work that goes into doing a high level paint job, but if you spent $7,500, you should be thrilled with the results, not just trying to accept them.

I wouldn't go the rebate route, as you'll both be dissatisfied. Either let him re-shoot it now (for the cost of paint at most), or have him give you a guarantee (in writing) that he'll do a reshoot some time from now for free / minimal additional cost.

Depending on how much disassembly needs to be done before
re-painting, I'd probably see if he'd be willing to compromise on doing a reshoot any time up to 18 months from now for $1,000. That way, you can drive it and enjoy it, and then come back one warm sunny week the summer after next and have him get it done right.

He gets some more $, you get to drive it without panicking about the occasional nick or scratch because you know you've got a repaint coming, everybody wins.

Good Luck!

(As an absolutely last resort (short of actually getting gangster on him) you might want to see if there are any Michigan attorneys lurking on this site that might be willing to help for a minimal fee. A demand letter on legal letterhead, explaining that your vehicle will be available from April 15 to May 1, and that you would like your car painted properly within that time period, in order to avoid any further legal action, might work wonders in getting you to the front of the line. But try negotiating with him first, as nobody likes to hear from their customer's attorneys.)

[Gordz32]

might have to get gangster with him..

Agreed!! Time to dust off the old' attitude adjuster and take a ride to his job and go Casino on is A$$. Haha:bicycle:

[TPC]

Kinda new to the whole site, be patient with me, looks like the improper reducer may have been used your painter probably should have made good on his end of the deal by now

[Steve68]

I totally agree with Frank! silver is hard to spray! I'm late as usual, trying to stay away !