My "Don't Call It Pro-Touring" Turbo Buick.

[motorheadmike]

Yeah, due to forum rules let's just leave it at: I don't like the term "Pro-Touring". However, this is my very usefully designed and routinely driven and raced Turbo Buick.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It is an '87 Turbo T, runs 12.1 @ 112mph, and is used in Auto-Xs vs. F-bodies and Corvettes. I am looking to race the car at open track day or time-attack events in the near future. I still have to install the LS1 rear discs before that happens. There are some titanium springs in the works as well.

Pardon the craptacular nature of the pics... wrong camera settings.

Regards.

[vanzuuk1]

"Im your father luke..."

What a cool car. A little mad max in there too.

[McssGmachine]

Man, That's a beautiful Buick! Welcome to the site!

[1970cuda]

How about "Sinister Touring". Sure looks mean!

[GBodyGMachine]

Hey. Hows about we start over.
Welcome to the site.
Jeff

[Turbo Rob]

Welcome to the board. What size tires do you have on the back of your T?

[motorheadmike]

Welcome to the board. What size tires do you have on the back of your T?

275/40/17

[protour_chevelle]

Now thats a protouring Buick!

heh, Any underhood shots? car loooks clean!

-Matt

[TonyL]

Now thats a protouring Buick!

LoL. Nice car. But seriously why would you join a site called pro-touring.com, about pro-touring cars, and then open with the comment:
"I don't like the term "Pro-Touring". However, this is my very usefully designed and routinely driven and raced Turbo Buick."

You're in effect saying all the other pro-touring cars on the site are "poser" cars, that aren't "usefully" designed or driven. While I personally wouldn't have opened with such obvious trolling flame bait, It's your choice to do so. You have what appears to be a no-holds-barred type of G-machine or streetfighter type car which is just as appreciated as a pro-touring car here. So welcome, enjoy the site stick around, and we'll see if we can't change your opinion on what "pro-touring" means.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

you got a real PRO-TOURING theme going there.. loveit!

by the way.. ever thought about PRO-TOURING that bad boy?!

[Marcus SC&C]

Looks wicked. :smoke: Welcome aboard BTW. What do you have under that "non pro-touring" Buick for suspension? Mark SC&C

[fast Ed]

Welcome from a fellow Canuck. Very cool Buick !!

I'm not a huge fan of the name "Pro-Touring" either, but regardless, this is a good site, with lots of helpful people and info ... especially if you're a GM owner. LOL :poke:


cheers
Ed N.

[stryfe101]

man I miss my Regal, What a great looking ride man...I love it

[motorheadmike]

I honestly couldn't have said it any nicer... I don't like the term Pro-Touring. Same thing goes for Pro-Street. Too many magazine and trailer queens built with cubic dollars. :D

As for suspension:
FRONT
UCAs: Tubular w/ delrin bushings & Chrysler truck ball joints
LCAs: Boxed w/ Del-A-Lum bushings & Moog ball joints
Brakes: 12" 1LE tied to B-Body spindles & single piston calipers w/ Hawk HP+ pads
Swaybar: 36mm hollow 3rd Gen F-Body w/ Moog G2 PolyU bushings & endlinks
Springs: GM 3rd Gen F-Body 800lbs/in
Shocks: KYB

REAR
UCAs: Bennett's single adjustable w/ spherical rod ends
LCAs: South Side Machine w/ relocation brackets
Brakes: Stock 10.5" w/ Aluminum drums & large wheel cylinders(LS1 Discs waiting to be installed)
Swaybar: Monte Carlo SS F41
Springs: Moog Celebrity Wagon 180lbs/in
Shocks: KYB

And underhood shots? I'll see if I can dig some up.

[TPI Monte SS]

Welcome aboard, nice to see you finally introduced yourself to the guys here! :) Woohoo, more G-bodies!

[6'9"Witha69]

That thing is awesome looking, I don't care what you call it.

[parsonsj]

Love your pro-touring Buick. Nicely done. It reminds me of Fuel, Jason Huber's ultra-awesome Camaro.

Why the gap on the front air dam? Air inlet?

jp

[myclone]

Why the gap on the front air dam? Air inlet?

jp

The stock buford as well as some aftermarket "stretched" intercoolers pick up air flow through that gap in the air dam.

mOtOrHeAd MiKe,

Ive always been a fan of the blacked out Mad Max/Darth Vader look...nice car.

Just be sure to pick on the wine n cheese crowd at track days not just the mustang/F-body guys :) . Nothing gets the tea n crumpet snobs panties in a bunch more than having one of those "gawdawful hot rods" show up at their play ground and kick dirt on their $600 shoes.

[Roger Poirier]

I honestly couldn't have said it any nicer... I don't like the term Pro-Touring. Same thing goes for Pro-Street. Too many magazine and trailer queens built with cubic dollars. :D

I don't like your comments, next time just leave them out. This not the proper way to welcome yourself to the site.

As for the car, pretty nice. G-Body's are comming on strong.

R.P.

[Bill Howell]

I honestly couldn't have said it any nicer... I don't like the term Pro-Touring. Same thing goes for Pro-Street. Too many magazine and trailer queens built with cubic dollars. :D



Once you dig in to this site, you will learn we are not fans of people loosely using the Protouring term either if all they do is throw on a set of TTlls and cut their springs. We don't condone trailer queens either. However, if it is built like protouring, driven like protouring, beat on like protouring at the track, then it probably is protouring. A name is just a word though, so welcome to the site, and nice ride, whatever you want to call it.

[motorheadmike]

I don't like your comments, next time just leave them out. This not the proper way to welcome yourself to the site.

Did my comments touch a sore spot, Roger? :cool: Try unbunching your panties. :wedgie:

Bill, Thanks... and I hear you.

[andrewb70]

Did my comments touch a sore spot, Roger? :cool: Try unbunching your panties. :wedgie:

Bill, Thanks... and I hear you.

Welcome to the site Mike. Please play nice.

Andrew

[TonyL]

Remember, It's the magazine's own fault for pigeon holing "pro-touring" cars as posers. This site was founded on "real" hard core cars that are driven hard, that push the envelope etc. But the reality is that we accept all kinds here too, even the softer core cars. They need love too.

I just wish the word pro-touring never got softened by the media.

[RatMalibu]

I remember Mike from the grand days of g-body.org.....there are fewer "queens" here than you think Mike, Welcome aboard

[XCESSIV]

I like the ride, it definatily is sinster looking, I have no problem with pro-touring, it is just a concept you are doing.:pat:

[neki67]

A rose by any other name . . . . .

Like the ride!

René

[Mike70T/A]

Motorhead Mike.....

If you don't like the term "pro-touring" ....then don't post here....

Just wondering....were you an angry individual with an overwhelming need to offend people BEFORE you built the Buick?

[tones2SS]

Love that car. Looks awesome!!!:twothumbs:twothumbs

[Top Speed]

He's always like this! :)

[CamaroJesse]

Nice car. I used to have one that was all dragged out. now i like to take turns faster then 15mph.

[Tony_SS]

As long as they are driven, and not towed, I don't what 'class' they are in.

btw, Looks good!

[2Loose]

I kinda of understand where Mike's coming from with his comments. I am pretty sure both terms, "protour" and "prostreet" were thought up by some magazine guy. Not real fond of either term, but they come pretty close to what my two rigs are, and both have lots of hours of my sweat and skinned knuckles in them, not some cubic dollars to some overrated shop. Be that as it may, my '58 chevy halfton is definitely a daily driver and "prostreet", and my '55 chevy coupe will be as good a handling "g-machine" or "protour" rig as I can make it on my budget. I'd love to ship either over and do some long distance touring, maybe even something like the "power tour", some day.

[xxxturbo6]

Welcome to the site Mike! nice looking ride! for me, I just threw a set of TTII's on and went to the track!! :twothumbs basicly! I don't call mine pro-touring / or a drag car but i will call it "FUNCTIONAL" my goal is to have the best of all worlds here. By functional i mean it should be able to have killer street manners and handling, knock down some killer numbers at the strip and put up a impresive time on the auto-X. This past Sept. I ran a 7.52@93 in the 1/8th on a mild tune with 20lbs boost and done the auto-x in 74.03sec. and that was with a completely STOCK suspension.... :twothumbs people can call it what they want, but i think "functional" sums it up the best with alot of the cars here, Including yours! My goal is to have a mid-low 10sec street driven daily driver that can handle as good on the street / auto-X as well as the strip. This year i got the engine done to easily do those times, got alot bigger rear sway bar, adjustable uppers and solid lowers, poly bushings in the front. next year will be the brake's and springs. but as of now it's a total different car. Hope to see you at some up coming events.. Scot w.

[Bob Johnson]

i was at the World of Wheels at Atlanta this week end. Some guy had a black 87 Olds Cutlass with all the V/6 Turbo Buick stuff on it. It was a pleasant change..Looked very good and was a little different.

[Dr.Olds]

Definetly like the look of your car, the black wheels give it that really cool, tough look. I've been thinking about going with black wheels on my GN too, but haven't picked any out yet. Good looking car and I like the direction you've taken it, that's where I'm planning on going with mine too!

[Dr.Olds]

BTW what kind of wheels are those?

[Bow Tie 67]

Welcome, that thing looks Mean! just sitting there. Nice car.

[motorheadmike]

BTW what kind of wheels are those?

Ronal R15s.

[Dr.Olds]

Cool, thanks!

[Siroadrnr]

Nice ride, welcome!! Personally, I don't care for labels, but its all good as long as you drive it, and enjoy it!!

[Bandit]

Nice G-machine you have there, hope it can hang with all the pro-touring cars around here...:poke:
Seriously, your car looks great, the label doesn't mean much anyway because it's such a broad term. We can all appreciate each others' cars no matter what they get called. :cheers:

[novanutcase]

Knucklehead.............

[jwrig]

Very deluxe looking.

[motorheadmike]

Oooooo... almost 1200 views. I'm popular. :D

Thanks for all the kind and honest words. :)

[Part Time]

Welcome. Nice work.

[69Nova]

Sick car. Oh and welcome to the site. Got any more badass pictures?

[72LeMans]

bitchin ride nuff said.

[DeltaT]

Saw your badass ride in the G-Body thread and was happy to find more pix here, even if it meant bringing back an old thread. I love the car - you have it set up very similar to my 4DR, and I couldn't care a rat's ass what 'category' it 'belongs' in, it is cool. I enjoy seeing anyone build their dream and make it go fast, stop quickly and handle.

Jim

My Site: http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i think homie took a hike..

[Memphis]

^Last Activity: Yesterday 12:24 PM

[Chevrolaine]

i think homie took a hike..
LOL Wishful thinking!:rolleyes:

[70camaro406]

Nice looking Buick. They always look good in complete Vader black.

It was a little odd/brazen coming to a "Pro-Touring" site stating that you don't like the name and don't want to be associated with the "name" Pro-Touring. What is it then, a "G-Machine"? Same thing.

It also says something about you as to why you call your cars what you do in your signature. That's a little disturbing too:

1987 Monte Carlo Super Slow
1987 Turtle Buick
1991 Slothmaro Z28
2002 Crapmaro B4C

Do you not like your cars or something?

[motorheadmike]

DeltaT, I’ll send that site of yours off to my brother… he has an ’81 Malibu Classic 2 door. Nice work.

Anyway…

Wow... this thread is old.

While I don't have the time to sit here and explain my feelings on mainstream conformity... rest assured I am glad you are all a little butt-hurt by my internet words. Reason being if it didn't offend you, it would mean that I wasn't touching on an element of truth. The truth hurts, doesn't it?

I pick on my cars because they are "my cars". I don't run around the internet acting as though the Lord himself spun wrenches on my rides. I did; and they frustrated the crap out of me for years (and still do...) earning me the right to say and do as I will. Unlike those assclowns who pay to have their cars built. Call it a sense of humility… something lost on the “Cheque-book Hot Rodders”.

I'll have some new pics soon... I just upgraded to some new 17" Drag Radials and just got it running with the new computer hardware/software.

A man’s limitations are only those he sets upon himself…

[406 Q-ship]

Not to stir the s**t, I don't completely disagree with you on Check-book Hot Rods but there are some who just don't have the ability or the facilities to build a car. If you send your car out for paint does that mean now you are one of the dreaded "pro-touring" car, and a check book hot rod? You probably didn't build the computer your currently using, does that mean it isn't yours? I think your going to find that most of the people here anything but check book hot rodders, this site has more than its share of lets build it ourselves types. :box2:

One of things that defines Pro-touring is driving the car and beating the snot out of it on the street, drag strip, auto-x and the road courses. A trailer queen is just a big paper weight.

BTW I really like your Buick......."Lord Vader your car is ready"

[motorheadmike]

If you send your car out for paint does that mean now you are one of the dreaded "pro-touring" car, and a check book hot rod? You probably didn't build the computer your currently using, does that mean it isn't yours? I think your going to find that most of the people here anything but check book hot rodders, this site has more than its share of lets build it ourselves types. :box2:

I think we (upper/lower-middle class blue/white collar types; and some of those who haven't forgotten where they came from) all operate in the realm of reasonable expectations...

My disgust lies in the self-proclaimed "car-guy" who thinks applying tire shine is an afternoon of working on "his car".

[Surfer]

Not to stir the s**t, I don't completely disagree with you on Check-book Hot Rods but there are some who just don't have the ability or the facilities to build a car.
Or time, I have no time. It would take me pry 3+ years with spare time to do what I want, nevermind I don't have the patience for that lol. Time = money, and willing to pay for it.

Although maybe I see what he's talking about, the guys who just do everything and then barely drive but are "detailing" it every other day, or have every tool you could imagine in their garage yet the tools are brand new as their never used. I'm of the belief that drive the piss out of your car should be a motto lol. I had the front end of my Viper repainted twice before I sold, why, b/c drove the **** out of it on the street and track, I have friends with exotics who don't care and track, and know others who are almost afraid to drive dare they get a small scratch.

The one thing I've never really understood is PT cars that had rollcages installed but never saw track use or anything and weren't anything special as far as power (basically stock LT1 etc) that won't even outrun some normal family sedans today lol.

In the end, drive the piss out of your car and enjoy it as we're only a here a short time:cheers:

[Tony_SS]

My disgust lies in the self-proclaimed "car-guy" who thinks applying tire shine is an afternoon of working on "his car".

You mean the guys who own a cry baby doll? Hehehe..

[motorheadmike]

You mean the guys who own a cry baby doll? Hehehe..

Yes, those gays... I mean... guys. Just kidding, I know lots of gay people who do not deserve to be grouped in with the psuedo "car-culture" guys.

I've been shat on at the office by my boss for having stained and damaged hands after a weekend in the garage... because a client didn't "appreciate it" (even though I was dressed and pressed to the nines). F*ck her, (I am sure) candy ass husband and aristocratic family who have never seen a day of real labour in their lives.

I'll go back to serving Canada full time if I find this becomes a trend.

[TonyHuntimer]

Hey Mike,

I never saw your car before. I don't know how I missed it. That's a bad@$$ Pro-Touring Buick!

:lol:
Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[jackfrost]

I'll go back to serving Canada full time if I find this becomes a trend.


mmmm... Canadian... so tasty...

[motorheadmike]

Hey Mike,

I never saw your car before. I don't know how I missed it. That's a bad@$$ Pro-Touring Buick!

:lol:
Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

Thanks Tony! ;)

[406 Q-ship]

I think we (upper/lower-middle class blue/white collar types; and some of those who haven't forgotten where they came from) all operate in the realm of reasonable expectations...

My disgust lies in the self-proclaimed "car-guy" who thinks applying tire shine is an afternoon of working on "his car".

I agree with you on the diaper cloth car guy, or the garage full of tools they have no idea how to use. My biggest bitch with most "car people" is when the car sits in a garage or trailer and never gets miles. We had a guy that brought a very nice car he paid to have built to a smaller west coast show, this car out classed most of the rest of the owner built cars at the show. The owner of the car got pissed after winning two years in a row that the show people made a ruling that in future shows the best of show winner of one year could not be in the judging the very next year. He wanted to be able to buy a shelf full of trophies by buying a car and show how cool he is.....he was just a tool.

[motorheadmike]

mmmm... Canadian... so tasty...

I said serve Canada (ie. via the Army), not serve Canadian (ie. via the beer bottle)... :geek:

But, yes... I do understand our beer is good.

406 Q-ship, you are pretty much nailing it...:3rd:

[motorheadmike]

Fresh pics.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/buick001-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/buick002-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/buick003-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/buick004-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/06/buick005-1.jpg

[69chevelle355]

What size are the new meats out back? I've never seen a bottle that looked like that. Hmmm...... Well, whatever the hell you call it, it's looking awesome!!

[jackfrost]

car looks great. very black. :razz:

what's going on inside? whats the laptop for?

[motorheadmike]

car looks great. very black. :razz:

what's going on inside? whats the laptop for?

Thanks.

1) Alot of things I need get my head around.
2) DLing porn at 120mph... duh! (Programming, tuning and datalogging)

[Pro-Buick]

Just to say that the guys who first went with the "Pro-Touring" term were guys who had build their cars by themself!
So if Pro-Touring is not what your car is, what is it ? and what are you doing here?
You're right to say that there are money guys ( with some only speculating on cars) but why be jealous of someone who has more money and perhaps no time or skill to build his own car......must they only buy Porsches and Corvettes?? if so, ok , close every shop who build nice street-machines....
I'm an employee and build my car by myself because i have time and skill.
Popular Hot Rodding, for example, is a nice magazine who show us nice cars, some build by professionnals, others build by average guys, with low cost and "do it yourself" features.

So welcome with your nice Bad Black Buick but don't forget we are here to have fun and in a good mood :drive: , no need to be agressive :machine:

I love Black Cars;
My daily Black GTI

[gordonquixote]

Gnarly ride.

[racereno]

WOW, what a read! First off, Welcome to Pro-Touring my G-Body brother. Secondly, very nice ride form a person that, I think, looks more to real world use/performance than show trophies. And lastly, I understand your frustration with people who won't get their hands dirty. I know all of us have things we have to farm out but we all know some wallet car guys. Locally, we have a guy who doesn't do anything mechanically whatsoever but is the classic "tire shine, wipe on, show, and collect a trophy with a car built by someone else" guy. Then when he's bored, sell it, buy another rod and repeat! You know, it's funny because no-one ever talks about it but he has never been accepted into the group of local car guys. I guess my point is that no matter what style of car you enjoy there will always be some that are posers, not just pro-street or -touring. I think your car fits the pt mold perfectly so throw off the chains of the unappreciated. The popularity of your ride here should be enough to show you that you're in the right place...among friends.

[formula]

gm sure does have a nice car, there.

I mean, it's not yours if you didn't build it, right? No matter how much time you spent on it.

Nobody's butt-hurt in here because you're hitting nerves. They're butt-hurt because you're being an ass. None of these cars here are completely ground-up designed and built by their owners--they're all based off of somebody else's design. The closest might have been bob johnson's 'cuda, and guess what? it was still a 'cuda at heart. Even after a million bucks of work.

PS you know what ol bobby did with his million buck 'cuda? Drove the sh*t out of it. Around here, it's about how you drive it, not who you write your checks to.

[motorheadmike]

Ummmm... Thanks for the welcomes. But, I have been here for years. It is just that the thread won't die.


gm sure does have a nice car, there.


I mean, it's not yours if you didn't build it, right? No matter how much time you spent on it.

"Design" and "Build" are two completely different concepts. GM designs cars and manufactures them for the masses. I redesigned my cars and built them for myself.

I can claim this because: I have a Design degree and spin my own wrenches (Hell, people write me cheques to service their cars). As indicated by the scars on my hands and dirt under my finger nails.

I appreciate that you want to split hairs and argue semantics to protect yourself and the membership here; and that is fine. Just try not to present such a weak argument in the process.

You want to talk about "driving" your cheque book Hot Rods? See the attached pictures... that is Natasha (my GF) running Auto-X on Sunday.

Yes, I "built" that car too.

[jerome]

Are you running on propane?

[motorheadmike]

Are you running on propane?

Only over 18lbs of boost. From 18-25+psi the small tank injects a controlled quantity of LPG into the intake on top of the base fuel (gasoline)... sort of like a nitrous system only it is an octane booster and not extra oxygen.

[SaturnVUEguy]

Only over 18lbs of boost. From 18-25+psi the small tank injects a controlled quantity of LPG into the intake on top of the base fuel (gasoline)... sort of like a nitrous system only it is an octane booster and not extra oxygen.Know of any way to add this to a car, where it kicks in under WOT?

[formula]

Ummmm... Thanks for the welcomes. But, I have been here for years. It is just that the thread won't die.

could this possibly be because you continue to respond to it?




"Design" and "Build" are two completely different concepts. GM designs cars and manufactures them for the masses. I redesigned my cars and built them for myself.

I can claim this because: I have a Design degree and spin my own wrenches (Hell, people write me cheques to service their cars). As indicated by the scars on my hands and dirt under my finger nails.

I appreciate that you want to split hairs and argue semantics to protect yourself and the membership here; and that is fine. Just try not to present such a weak argument in the process.

You want to talk about "driving" your cheque book Hot Rods? See the attached pictures... that is Natasha (my GF) running Auto-X on Sunday.

Yes, I "built" that car too.

1) You're the one arguing semantics--but if you want to play that game, design versus build? please. GM designed AND built your car. You modified it.

2) I think it's great that you have the knowledge, skills, time, and tools to manufacture and install your own parts for your car. I, on the other hand, have the knowledge, skills, and tools to install parts, but not the time or knowledge to design and manufacture my own. Am I somehow less of a hotrodder than you because I built my car with my own hands, but with other people's parts? Or would the fact that I am an A student with a double major and a minor on a full ride at an extremely difficult college, AND work two jobs to pay for my living expenses and parts, AND still find time to maintain and modify my car somehow make me more of a hotrodder than you, who is simply devoting what he's spent his life training for towards a side project?

I say neither is true--that there is no "more hotrodderer" ranking system. I say we're both gearheads, just with different skill sets. Not everyone can have a design degree and spin their own wrenches--some people, however, seem to be especially good at making money. Is it really fair to claim that they are somehow less a part of this hobby than we are, just because they can use their money to replace the time, knowledge, skills, and tools that would otherwise be required of them to build a hot rod? I say, as long as they treat it like a car, and not a piece of jewelry, that they should be just as welcome. And that's what this site is about. Everybody here has different levels of skill and disposable income to offset each other--but almost everyone is here for a common goal: having fun and driving the sh*t out of their cars. The checkbook guys on here don't run around with a holier-than-thou attitude, nor do the fulltime builders--I don't understand why you find it necessary to.

3) I think it's great that your girlfriend runs auto-X in a car you MODIFIED. Seems like she'd fit right in around here--you know, since we accept all types around here, as long as they're serious about sharing their knowledge about cars, and not just about bragging how much better they are than everyone else on the site.

[GBodyGMachine]

:box2::box:
O ****, Its On!!!!
^
Cool, it wont let me swear!

[novanutcase]

I was going to stay out of this because Mike and I both have opposing views on this very subject so this comment is towards Formula. Mike please don't quote or respond to my comment.
Trying to talk reason will not help. He doesn't care to be civil or take into consideration anyone elses point of view and only wants his point to be recognized.

HE'S HARDCORE MAAAAN! EVERYONE ELSE ARE A BUNCH OF PUSSIES!:firefire:

Liken it to someone who likes to golf and carries his own irons but sneers at the others that use a cart because, in his mind, they aren't REAL golfers since they use a golf cart to get around!

John

[motorheadmike]

Know of any way to add this to a car, where it kicks in under WOT?

I am working on it right now, finalizing a deal for the components to put it into my DD Z28. Essentially, it is activated using a basic Hobbs switch; be it under boost or vacuum. Eitherway it opens the circuit based on atmosphere and introduces the fuel.

Most any LPG or Natural Gas conversion shop should be able to help you design a system safely. And supply you the parts. ;)

[motorheadmike]

could this possibly be because you continue to respond to it?


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bitchin ride nuff said.

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Basic comprehension and situational awareness seem to escape your educational prowess; that is 14 months between replies by other members if you couldn't figure it out. See above.:doh:



1) You're the one arguing semantics--but if you want to play that game, design versus build? please. GM designed AND built your car. You modified it.


I know you are! But what am I?! :screwy: Did anyone else read his response to sound like that?



Is it really fair to claim that they are somehow less a part of this hobby than we are, just because they can use their money to replace the time, knowledge, skills, and tools that would otherwise be required of them to build a hot rod?

Yes.

You are clearly clueless as to what this culture is truely about, aren't you? The cheque-book owners are a cultural parasite; like most aristocratic culture. I will not have my culture and passion milked by the Bourgeoisie. They will always be sub-standard in my book.

PS. Re-read my posts. Hint: there is always room for the guy who at least changes his own oil.

[TonyHuntimer]

Basic comprehension and situational awareness seem to escape your educational prowess; that is 14 months between replies by other members if you couldn't figure it out. See above.:doh:

LOL!!!! Mike. You're one funny guy. It's almost like we should start a new thread because it's obvious people are getting confused. They don't realize they hopped into the "WayBack Machine" and you've been here for years. :lmao:

Bad@$$ car!

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[tiek1011]

I'll jump in on the resurrected post from the past...

I'm just a little curious about you motroheadmike, you said in a recent post "I can claim this because: I have a Design degree and spin my own wrenches (Hell, people write me cheques to service their cars). As indicated by the scars on my hands and dirt under my finger nails."

But in your "Blog" you mention this:

Thursday, May 31, 2007
Houston..We've got camber!

Yes it's true. The beast finally has significant negative camber at it's disposal. I installed the camber bolt kit last night. Without an impact wrench, all I can say about the experience; PAINFUL. It really sucks not having a decent compliment of proper tools.

I wonder what kind of super car guy that "spins" his own wrenches AND "gets cheques to service their cars" doesn't even own an impact wrench? ...or a "decent compliment of proper tools"? I hope you have since picked some up.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying in your "Blog"

Also looks like you took your car to an alignment shop, and had someone look at your carb because of fuel starvation problems. Seems to me that by your standards (:bsjerk:) that's a no-no.

...Your car looks great. I'm not very excited about the interior though. ...or your attitude. Just bad form. Are you French Canadian by chance?

...My 2¢

[Pro-Buick]

or just French ? :hammer:

[Damn True]

Hey Mike, let me ask you this.


Do you think that Michelangelo, Donatello, Ghiberti, Botticelli and DaVinci could have produced their art on their own?


Nope. They'd have never done what they did without patronage from the Medici and The Roman Catholic Church.

It's a simple analogy. Patrons such as Bob Johnson and the folks that pay artists such as DSE the Ring Bros and even our own Jake and Nelson allow those artists the funding with which to innovate.

Were the Medici artists. No. You could make the argument though that they were visionaries of the highest order. In any case, without them, and in turn without the Bob Johnson's of our world a whole lot of art would be mere fantasy rather than reality.


Embrace it. Let someone else's cash fund the R&D that allowed for the development of your LPG system. Use what you like on your car, leave out what you don't like. But don't begrudge the patrons the credit for their role in the process.

Or, look at it from this angle:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

My wife and I recently completed building a home. Just appraised at $1.7M (around here, not that big a deal). The floorplan was my idea, I picked out the appliances, the stonework and tile in two of the bathrooms and the paint on the outside and two of the bedrooms. My wife designed the kitchen cabinets and picked the countertops in the kitchen and master bath and the paint in the kitchen, living room and master bath/bedroom. I had a hand in nearly every bit of it but I didn't build a bit of it myself. Is it any less my house because I paid someone else to drive the nails?

[motorheadmike]

But in your "Blog" you mention this:

Thursday, May 31, 2007
Houston..We've got camber!

Yes it's true. The beast finally has significant negative camber at it's disposal. I installed the camber bolt kit last night. Without an impact wrench, all I can say about the experience; PAINFUL. It really sucks not having a decent compliment of proper tools.


I was confused for a moment because on the 31st of May 2007 I was in Gagetown, New Brunswick on my Infantry Platoon Commander's course.

So I dropped that quote into Google and it came up as Ray Vachon, a member of the Toronto F-Body Motorsports club (of which I am a member); he wrote that.


Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying in your "Blog"
Blog? I don't have a blog.


I'm not very excited about the interior though. ...or your attitude. Just bad form. Are you French Canadian by chance?

The interior is a work in progress; my attitude isn't. French Canadian, no. Canadian Forces, yes.

Lastly, if you didn't figure it out already:

...My 2¢

[Damn True]

Mike,

I am going to edit your post.

True

[motorheadmike]

I am not going to touch of Big Religion and the propaganda of their "art" or the dirty money that funded it, or the politics behind the men forced to produce it.

Commissioning art is not making art. The art is always the artists, even if someone else has possesion of it. Whether or not an artist is commissioned to produced a great work of art is irrelevant, he/she would still be an artist at the end of the day. And, the guy with the money? He is still a tool without talent or vision.



My wife and I recently completed building a home. Just appraised at $1.7M (around here, not that big a deal). The floorplan was my idea, I picked out the appliances, the stonework and tile in two of the bathrooms and the paint on the outside and two of the bedrooms. My wife designed the kitchen cabinets and picked the countertops in the kitchen and master bath and the paint in the kitchen, living room and master bath/bedroom. I had a hand in nearly every bit of it but I didn't build a bit of it myself. Is it any less my house because I paid someone else to drive the nails?

Buds, that sounds like my Monday morning.

If you drove nails with friends and family it is definitely yours. Hell, if you took the time to drive even a SINGLE structural nail into that house and broke a sweat in the process, I'd call it yours. If you paid someone else to do it all for you, where all you did was pick colours, cabinets and appliances it is not yours as a piece of art, it is mearly your possession.

[motorheadmike]

Mike,

I am going to edit your post.

True

Well isn't that a super bit of censorship. Thanks for taking the teeth away from my post in order to protect the membership from a few harsh words. Especially in a response to a character assassination attempt.

Glad to see we are all adults here. :rolleyes:

[trapin]

We are all entitled to our opinions. And many opinions have been offered. Which were a lot of fun, and we thank you. You've provided a valuble service to the great people of Pro-Touring.com.

The original intent of this thread was for Mike to introduce himself. He's done that...he's ruffled some feathers (and who doesn't love ruffeled feathers? I can't get enough of them personally).

Unfortunately this wonderful little thread which brought a lot of happiness to a lot of people has crossed over into the area of complete and total stupidity.

It is with great sadness that I now must pull the plunger and allow the flow of electricity to mercifully fry what's left of it's feeble and simple life.

Go in peace my little welcoming thread. It's off to the great message board forum in the sky. Fly away....fly away.

[Steve1968LS2]

Wow, this thread is full of ego and "I'm better than you" attitudes.. pretty sad really.

[Damn True]

I am not going to touch of Big Religion and the propaganda of their "art" or the dirty money that funded it, or the politics behind the men forced to produce it.

Commissioning art is not making art. The art is always the artists, even if someone else has possesion of it. Whether or not an artist is commissioned to produced a great work of art is irrelevant, he/she would still be an artist at the end of the day. And, the guy with the money? He is still a tool without talent or vision.

There are literally thousands of examples that would disprove your logic here. Just one:

The David might have been created without the Medici. But not likely, there is no way Michaelangelo could have funded it on his own. The marble alone cost il Arte della Lana (the visionaries behind the original concept....not Michelangelo) nearly three years of their budget. So much in fact that they could scarcely pay the original artist (Antonio Rossolinio) to do it. He folded and the marble sat idle for nearly 50 years until the Medici put Michelangelo on the job to finish it.
Further, the David would have been destroyed as a result of it's vulgarity had it not been funded by the Medici who were infuential enough to ensure it's protection.

Simply stated, without the Medici and the Church most of the aforementioned artists would have been relegated to the period version of the local art/wine festival and they'd never have had the money to persue their really creative or ground breaking endavors. It takes money to make art. Someone has to put a roof over the head of the guy doing the work until it's done.

In modern terms. The Ring Bros and Chip Foose would be backyard builders with no money and no finished cars without the coin from those "evil, bad, poser checkbook hot-rodders".




Buds, that sounds like my Monday morning.

If you drove nails with friends and family it is definitely yours. Hell, if you took the time to drive even a SINGLE structural nail into that house and broke a sweat in the process, I'd call it yours. If you paid someone else to do it all for you, where all you did was pick colours, cabinets and appliances it is not yours as a piece of art, it is mearly your possession.

Heads up fellas. None of you really own your homes. My wife is going to be bummed.

So I commission an architect to design a home around the vision my wife and I have. I hire a builder to facilitate that vision. I select and pay for every color, material, and mechanical device in the home. Yet because I didn't pick up a hammer myself it's not really mine. Should I have cast the bathroom fixtures out of brass myself? Felled the trees as well?

Wow. You are really ate up with the whole classism thing aren't you?