dimensions of spindles

[TBART70]

Can anybody tell me the difference between an A,G,and F body spindle.
I am trying to find a spindle for my POS Martz chassis that is close in design to the poorly fabricated spindles. I have an e-mail in to AFX to see if the steering arms for the A and G body will fit the f-body spindle, trying to see what options I have. Maybe I have to find someone to make custom steering arms, I compared stock 67 camaro spindles to mine and they are similar, If I used a spindle that was 1.5 to 2 in. taller than stock and has a similar mounting point for the snout, which would be a 2" drop compared to stock. Now keep in mind this is for a 70 camaro not a 67. Also I still do not know what geometry this thing has, many inquiries to Martz with no answers. I have 67 camaro brakes that fit this thing, I could keep them if I used the Heidt's spindle with a custom steering arm/ ATS arm if dimensions are correct. If one of the ATS spindles dimensions match the best I will have to get the correct brakes and sell mine. I may have to use a spacer for the wheels because of offset but that is an easy thing to deal with.

Anybody with any ideas or comments are greatly welcome, I have made a ton of mods to this chassis and spent alot of time making it more rigid, which I think I have done. I am stuck with it now. It is a matter of piece of mind trying to put a better spindle on this thing. I will post a picture of the spindle to see if anybody has an idea of what I can do. I would still like to figure out what geometry it has when all is said and done. So if anybody is interested in a challenge, please help me out. Also keep spreading the word how bad this chassis is and how bad there customer service is.

[Marcus SC&C]

Oooo boy,this could be a tricky one. A and 1st Gen F spindles are about 1.4" *shorter* than a stock 2nd gen F spindle. G body is about 1.2" shorter so all of them will be going in the wrong direction. Just to clarify are you saying that you need spindles 1.5"-2" taller than stock `70 F body or that much taller than 1st gen Camaro? If the former,it`s gonna be tough. If the later it should be pretty easy. ATS steering arms are the same bolt pattern as stock early A body and 1st gen F body steering arms. Check your steering arm length LBJ to center of tie rod end taper also as 2nd gen is much longer than 1st gen/A body. You wouldn`t happen to have a bumpsteer gauge would you? Mark SC&C

[TBART70]

hey thanks for the replay I really need the help, The Martz chassis has a fabricated spindle that resembles an 67 f-body spindle that is 1.5 in. taller with a drop of approx. 2 in. They are in no way related to a second gen spindle. If I can find a spindle that has roughly the same dimensions, and then find a steering arm that is the correct length than I think it can be done. I have a bumpsteer kit for the steering rack, but it will be a long time before I have the car fully assembled to check this stuff.I figured I would check bumpsteer when I take it to work and do the alignment, and then check and set bumpsteer accordingly.

I truly appreciate any help on this POS, It has been a thorn in my side since I bought it.

thanks,
-Tom

[silver69camaro]

I think I'd go with a Coleman fabricated spindle that fits your dimensions.

[TBART70]

I tried to do a search and find someone to do that but could not find such a place I will try to search coleman and see, do you know there web site address.

[silver69camaro]

http://www.colemanracing.com/

I think they still do custom spindles (they used to, anyway)...but I'm not sure how flexable they are with BJ tapers and such. You could do that yourself, anyway. Give 'em a call and find out.

[TBART70]

pics soon host not working. I called and they would do it. One problem they don't have a 67 camaro spindle snout, I would have to supply them. Not sure what is a better way to go. dimension from lower balljoint hole to tie rod hole is approx. 5 in.

[Samckitt]

Somewhere I have the GM print of B body spindles. I'll have to look for them

[silver69camaro]

pics soon host not working. I called and they would do it. One problem they don't have a 67 camaro spindle snout, I would have to supply them. Not sure what is a better way to go. dimension from lower balljoint hole to tie rod hole is approx. 5 in.

Easy deal. Draw one up and have a machine shop make two out of 17-4PH that you supply. Just ask Coleman what the OD of the pin needs to be.

Or, use that apportunity to use a Mustang II pin for a wider selection of hubs and brake choices.

[TBART70]

I already have willwood 6 piston and rotors/ hubs for 67 camaro that fit this thing, was hoping not to change them. This would have been alot easier if 2-3 years ago when I got my Tri-4bar from Art Morrison that you had a sub frame. ha,ha. Oh whell to late now. If I wanted to switch brakes I sure one of the spindle snouts they have would work with another brake set up, they said they have an impala snout not sure of the dimensions though. Afco has the same thing, I might have a connection to them, I will find out.

thanks for your help
-Tom

[TBART70]

Marcus did you get any measurements from the ATS stuff they still did not respond to my e-mail yet. I will try to post pics but my computer has been acting up.

[Boulder69]

Tom,

Just call ATS on monday. They always answer the phone and will answer all of your Qs. One of their many claims to fame.

-eric

[Marcus SC&C]

Okay so they`re roughly the same height as stock 2nd gen spindles. The ATS spindles are about the right height but they`re only 7/8" drop compared to stock. Heidts 1.5" taller 2" drop spindles should be almost perfect. Then your `67 style brakes will bolt right on and you won`t have to futz with odd ball/one off circle track stuff. It`ll save you a lot of headaches fabbing brackets etc. and 10 years from now you won`t be standing there scratching your head trying to remember which spindle pin you used and what oil seal fits it or whatever. :doh: Then you just have to get the bolt on steering arms machined up. After looking at the pics ATS Chevelle steering arms will probably be very close.
Without some measurments of the whole frontend to determine the geometry this is all really shooting in the dark though. Was the geometry of the subframe any good in the first place? If not this would be an ideal time to tweak it rather than just concentrating on a direct replacement part. We can help you out with this if you like,just give me a call. Mark SC&C
Edited after pics.

[TBART70]

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000834br3.jpg)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000833vq6.jpg)
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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10000880001fk3.jpg)

Mark I really appreciate the help, this thing is really getting on my nerves. I have inquired about the geometry a couple of times with no luck, yes now would be a great time to change things, I was thinking that myself (if I knew what to do).

[TBART70]

After spending an hour on the phone with Mark from SC&C, being led in the right direction for this thing, all I can say is what a great guy to talk to. Not only did he spend his time talking with me, he was nice enough to do some research. Not many people would be willing to do that for a stranger. Smart guy and knows this suspension stuff. Thank you again!


Mark I took some measurements the spindle is approx. .955 taller than the stock one with the 2in. drop. Maybe after the measurements are done and calculated we can make an assesment that the Heidt's spindle will still work or might even be better. I need to assemble it and see if a longer steering arm is going to interfere with my wheels or anything else for that matter. I only want to be wrong once.:pat: I will keep you posted.

You can see from the pics some of the bracing and the motor mount differences to make it right.


thanks to everyone for their input.

[TBART70]

Mark I was thinking maybe an ATS spindle might be the way to go after all. When I had the car assembled the car was very low, I inquired about a spindle with less drop and Martz told me to crank the springs up. I really didn't think that was the best way to get the height up, maybe an ATS spindle with less drop would work. What is the difference between the three ATS spindles. Is it track width or something else. Thanks again for any info. I got a hold of my buddies ATS spindles for f-body. They look like the only difference might be the track width. I might have to use a wheel spacer. Is there a difference in the ball joint to hub face measurement between the different ATS spindles?

thanks
-Tom

[Marcus SC&C]

Hey Tom,the ATS spindles are a very good possibility,especially if you want to get rid of about an inch of unwanted drop from your current setup. Once you get some hard numbers on the rest of the suspension for me I`ll crunch em and see where it sits now. Then we can tweak it from there. If the tall version ends up being too tall for that subframe we can always use the std. height ones and tune the effective spindle height with our modular upper ball joints. We can do them in thousands of configurations and heights to suit custom applications. We can probably start with G body AFX steering arms and tweak those to suit also. The different versions of the AFX spindles all use the same offset but vary by height and ball joint tapers for different applications. They`re basic design and modularity makes them really great for custom applications. Mark SC&C