I feel like I am getting ripped off

[navyflyer72]

ok, so let me set the stage here. A few months back I was in my hometown in southeastern PA. I currently live in Maryland. I blew the transmission in my 67 Pro-touring Camaro and so I have it towed into a local high end Corvette/Chevy restoration place that has a good reputation. I buy a 4 speed Muncie from them and decide to have them do a little electrical and interior work while they have the car for the transmission swap. This was back in August. I got the car back three weeks ago after I told them to stop working on it because they have taken too long. They have also charged 13k on my credit card. The Muncie was $1700. The parts come to approx $2800, the rest is labor. TThey performed the following:

-swapped transmissions
-swapped front shocks (I had the new ones)
-swapped a bent tie rod (tow guy put the hooks on the tie rods!)
-had hoses made for vintage air ac system that had all components installed.
-cut holes for vents in dash (stock ball vents)
-installed hoses and defrosted ducts
-installed door panels
-installed kick panels
-installed center dash panel and block off plate
-adjusted windows
-wired electric life, electric windows
-ran relays and fixed electrical problem with RS headlights
-ran a power wire to the electric choke
-adjusted front suspension so it doesn't rub fender (QA1 coilovers)
-adjusted fuel tank mounting and swapped out a faulty fuel sender

Since I have had my Camaro back the front passenger tire still rubs the fender, the speedometer still indicates zero, they said it only needed calibration, but I'm pretty sure no reading means something is not hooked up. The watershields were not installed before the door panels went on, and the custom painted dash has deep scratches down to the metal next to the passenger dash ball vent that they drilled the hole for. Now after only driving her back from PA (150 miles) and putting on another 60 miles I took her out today for a short trip to Annapolis about 25 miles away, first she needed a jump as there was only 8 volts showing. Then just before reaching my destination I noticed the engine temp rising rapidly towards 250 (usually stays locked between 180-190) then as soon as I notice this and decide to pull over to investigate, I barely get off the road when the whole car shuts down abruptly. There was coolant all around the overflow area of the engine bay and then I find the main breaker on the batery line (50 Amp) is blown. After a hassel finding a place with the right shape fuse, I try again, only to find that she needs a jump again, but now she won't take a charge, and won't tturn over, I have her picked up by a flatbed and after $155 and a blown day she is back in the garage.

If anyone has any ideas on where I should start looking for the cause of my mysterious electrical problems, but please feel free to weigh in on whether or not $13k sounds like someone is trying to rip me off and what (besides court) my possible recourses might be. $13k is a HUGE sum of money for me, as it probably is for most of us, especially when it is spent in 3 months without a whole lot to show for it. They had their Chevy (mainly Corvette) appraiser give me an appraisal for my insurance and he appraised her at $90k, now I am wondering if they just did that to make me feel like the car was good to go, but in reality they were trying to scam me? I have almost $85k into the rebuild so it is possible, but seriously I am not feeling good about this $13k at all.

Thanks in advance for any tips/advice, I need some right about now. Plus I only have two months before I am on deployment again so I have to get this taken care of ASAP.

-George

[Restomod]

To me $13k is a LOT ,I barely have more than that in my whole car!!!! Do you feel you were ripped?? If so take the actions you feel need to be taken. I would NEVER turn someone loose with my car MUCH LESS my car and my CC # !!!!!!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

Wow.. that is a LOT of labor..

Did you sign an estimate? In CA the shop must have you sign an estimate or you don't have to pay.

Check your state laws and if need be dispute the charges.

I do NOT see that much labor there.. most are minor things.

[MrQuick]

yeah? You can't just charge someone without an estimate or ok for charges...just a note, I would have charged you half that. ; )

[mikey]

I fully agree that you were ripped big time. I'm not very good with electrical so I will leave any opinions to those that know more. Here in Mo. we also get a signed repair order with a estimate before a car is touched.

[BA.]

Agreed, but Steve do you mean 100 hours? (not 1000? $13,500/1000 = $13.50/hr labor)

I'm no expert, BUT, I've done a lot of that very work you have listed above so I feel as though I can make a good judgement call on time spent for labor.

At $100/hr, it looks to me as if you are still charged AT LEAST twice what it should be. I only come up with *around* 40 hrs of work there and I'm being pretty generous I think. And $100 seems way more than generous to me also, but, I'm not "in the field". I do most of my own work that you had listed because I have more time than money.

YOU NEED TO DISPUTE THE CHARGES WITH YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
You're supposed to at least give some effort to call the shop and dispute the charges before you can call Mastercard/Visa and file a dispute. I've filed a few in my day and every one was favorable.

Sounds like you should do the same. Sorry about yer luck there. :(

[Steve1968LS2]

lol..

Well.. 10,000 divided my 100 is 100.. guess I'm tired from working on the car all day.

I still don't see it.. A $10,000 labor charge is excessive for what he listed as being done.

[BonzoHansen]

Call the CC company and get the payments stopped.

And send the tow company a bill for the damages he caused.

[Bill Howell]

Call the CC company and get the payments stopped.

And send the tow company a bill for the damages he caused.

What he said, and do it asap as you probably only have 30-60 days to stop payment or dispute a charge.

[BonzoHansen]

What he said, and do it asap as you probably only have 30-60 days to stop payment or dispute a charge.

Lesson for all: Always pay for stuff like this with AMEX. They always side with cardholders.

[jeff s]

The CC company can't stop labor charges. Installing a Vintage air system and all that electrical work, Power window install, Headlight problem, can add up. Doing some of this stuff during the build is one thing, but taking things apart to install and track down problems after, is another story. Sounds like the cooling system wasn't bled and the relays didn't get wired properly, no excuse for that.

[Steve1968LS2]

The CC company can't stop labor charges. Installing a Vintage air system and all that electrical work, Power window install, Headlight problem, can add up. Doing some of this stuff during the build is one thing, but taking things apart to install and track down problems after, is another story. Sounds like the cooling system wasn't bled and the relays didn't get wired properly, no excuse for that.

It sounded like he just had hoses made for a vintage air system that was already installed :shrug:

[streetk14]

Sorry to hear about the situation. I just roughly added up the labor times for what you had listed (I even went on the high side), and I don't think it should have been more than 40 hours of labor. Unless there were some things that were much more in depth than it appears, I think 40 hours is fair. At $100 an hour, that's $4000 in labor, $6800 with all the parts. Like someone else said, you paid about twice that. Do you have an itemized list of what they did and what they charged you? I'd like to see it if you have it.

As far as your electrical problems, you'll have to do a little diagnosis. It could be something as simple as a bad alternator. Have the alternaor and battery tested for starters. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Andy

[LowBuckX]

Im not sure all Corvette specialty shops are hacks and rip off but the ones I know of are. Beware of vette speciaty shops

[ProTouring442]

Yikes! :seizure:

I'm in MD if you need a hand with anything, I'd be happy to look it over with you to see what could be done to sort it out.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442 (http://www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442)

[BonzoHansen]

The CC company can't stop labor charges. From experience, I disagree with that. I had AMEX deny us when the customer complained, even though we had a detailed signed work order.

[Firckn]

If the charge on your cc is within 45days call the cc company and tell them you want to document the problems you are having with the shop.

This 45day period is crucial because after that you cannot use the cc company as leverage against them.

Start the proceeding now.

Email the shop(documentation)! Express your concerns about the charges and the work that was not completed. Give the shop time to respond to your request, if no response give your cc company your (documented) emails and start disputing.
Remember to talk to the cc company like a car person, expressing all the intricate details of the work . It sounds stupid but if you want to fight you have to be detailed.

On behave of all business owners out there you must give them time to fix the problems first. Go directly to the top with your concerns. They want your money, but you have to be stern and make them earn it!

Good luck,

Curtis

[High Plains Mopars]

Not to defend the shop if htey are screwing you, but consider this;

Subtracting out the parts leaves $8500 for labor. At a flat rate of $65 an hour, which may be higher or lower based on the area averages but should be in the ball park, leaves 130 hour worth of work. That does seem a little high for standard work, but remember you were having custom stuff done that could take longer because of their unfamiliarity with your car and the specific products.

Anytime you are troubleshooting (electrical) or fabricating (hoses, dash and ducts) or correcting mistakes, (suspension adjustments) it can take more time that a straight forward install.

Talk to them about it, get an itemized list with break downs of everything ddn get explainations on things that look out of line. Unfortunatly, if your going to have other guys building your car, evenif it is just component level work, you are going to pay a premium for it.

[navyflyer72]

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I kind of had a gut feeling on this one and it just seemed too high. They were charging approximately $85/hour labor for most of the jobs they did.

Andy, I do have an itemized list of what they did and how they broke out the hours If you send me a fax number I will fax it to you. I can also try and get it scanned at an Office Depot and email it to you if that is easier.

I will have to check and see if I am still in the 45 day window, it will probably be close to that, but I will still initiate contact with the cc company and I will also send anemail and call the shop. I expressed my concerns with the shop supervisor, but was basically blown off with "it's all listed on the receipts". Listed on the receipts doesn't mean the work was done right, as evidenced by the outcome.

I may be hitting up some of you MD guys for some help. Thanks for all the offers.

[paul67]

To me over here in the uk that $65 seems low , dealers etc you would be paying $100+ pr ,well thats what I've paid and I could not get the car out fast enough, eg setting airbag comp $95 on ramp and plug in, $95 to wait for comp to reset ,still fault , seat belt unit fault, $95 hr to fit seat belt arm min charge 1hr, $95 to reset comp, still fault , wrong comp fitted , $95 to fit new comp labour only 1hr min charge, $ 100 comp, $ 95 to rest comp , all ok.
labour $600 for 6hrs work, parts $100 , lesson never take car to dealer again:ripped: and this was on a rover 216 about size of a VW rabbit.

[jsconiers]

reverse charges and dispute.....

[Clean Cut Creations]

ALWAYS get an estimate before dropping off your car for repairs. It is foolish not to. If the shop won't give you a ballpark figure on how much it will cost for repairs then you need to see a different shop. If they do not call you throughout the repair and get your input and ok to procede, then you need to see a different shop.
We pride ourselves on giving the customer total control on EVERY aspect of a project's rebuild. If you give a shop free reign to spend as much time as they like on your car, believe me they will and you the owner will feel the pain!

[SicMonte]

hey bro...im in Silver Spring MD...anything you need...just ask.

[NOVA]

This same discussion was recently being discussed on another board and it sounded like that customer was getting taking advantage of in a real bad way.

I feel bad that there are shops out there that are doing this and getting away with it! it gives the good shops a bad rap too because it makes everyone a little leary when we read about these issues.

I am a real small time car hobby guy with even a smaller budget and that is why when I do have work done I make sure I understand exactly what it is that is being done and what my charges are going to be within a few bucks.
If you leave the deal real vague it can get very ugly, and when a shop says they do not do any kind of ballpark estimates and only work on a per hr. bases I cordially get out the door as quickly as possible, I have found that there are lots of shops around,it may take a little search and find but there are good ones that are priced fairly.

I sure hope you get this resolved (in your favor) and please PM me the name in case I ever end up on the east coast I'll be sure to Speed right by that Shop!

[qwik1320]

$13k for that list :here!: , what a rip off! Where in southeast PA was this shop - please PM me so I know to stay away from them!

[navyflyer72]

Thanks again for all the responses. It looks like I will be taking this up with the cc company tomorrow, I may be able to get in under the 45 day window for the last 2 charges that equal over $10k, I hope that by lodging the complaint with the cc company and seeing if they will back me, I will be able to strong arm the shop into taking some of the charges off, especially in lighht of the problems I have recently had after less than 250 miles on the car. For those that are curious where the shop is, let me see if they will be reasonable about the charges before I bad mouth them completely, because some of the work was done correctly, but obviously some was not. If, in the end it turns out that they continue to be unfair about this, I will have no problem sending the name of the shop out in personal messages, but I will refrain from posting the name unless it becomes really ugly.
Again to all those in MD I will probably be hitting you up for some help, but as I am headed to Afghanistan for 6 months soon, I may be forced to wait until I get back to start working on her again. Damn shame as I wanted to drive her as soon as I got back...

[SicMonte]

anytime you need me...just ask!! especially for a member of our armed forces...you deserve all the time in that car as possible!!!

[bookends]

what did they say about shotty workmanship are they willing to warranty what they did wrong, if not contact every local message board and state your case, don't flame them just present the facts. there is a local company here in atlanta that was doing shotty work and giving inflated dyno #'s on performance work. people brought it to other inthusiests attention on Ls1 tech and other more local message boards and not that company has no reputation in Atl.