Control Arms

[Mathius]

Can someone give a few pointers on building a set of these: http://www.scandc.com/currectrac.htm

They don't seem to make a set for my '76 Chevy Malibu.

I am a certified welder. I need help with understanding how those are assembled. Particularly the grease ports, and what bushings are used. These are supposed to be superior suspension parts to help with bind in a 4-link situation, so I was hoping to duplicate them for my own purposes.

Mathius

[cupcar]

Math if you are in a buying mood the upper G bodies work and the lower 96 impala (for the swaybar) work also. mike.

[taylorl572]

All i have to suggest is to TIG only but beings your certified you probably you already know that

[Kenova]

Can someone give a few pointers on building a set of these: http://www.scandc.com/currectrac.htm

Mathius
Give Marcus at SC&C a call and tell him what you are working with. I'll bet they already have something that will fit your needs.
Ken

[Mathius]

Math if you are in a buying mood the upper G bodies work and the lower 96 impala (for the swaybar) work also. mike.

I'll take a look at that. Seems like I could build a set cheaper though if I knew how they worked.

Mathius

[Mathius]

All i have to suggest is to TIG only but beings your certified you probably you already know that

I don't mean to rant at you, but this is one of my pet peeves as a welder.

There's nothing magical about a TIG welder. It does tend to give you better control, but a good welder should be able to run the same bead with any type of machine.

TIG allows for better control, and it's a lot easier to switch between weld processes (switch tungsten and pick up a different rod, change your weld settings).

Mathius

[52deluxe]

i agree with Mathius, I can lay down a damn good looking bead (some people have thought i welded it with a tig machine) with my dillon mk torch OA setup

[taylorl572]

i agree with Mathius, I can lay down a damn good looking bead (some people have thought i welded it with a tig machine) with my dillon mk torch OA setup
Its not completely a matter of looks with TIG and wire feed even though i weld TIG every day i can wire feed just as good but that doesnt mean I trust it as much as TIG its a matter of the strength. Tig is a much more thourough welding process IF you do it right with a combination of rod,heat,tungsten,and gas.

[Mathius]

its a matter of the strength. Tig is a much more thourough welding process IF you do it right with a combination of rod,heat,tungsten,and gas.

FALSE!

I tried being polite.

Please stop spreading false information!

There is nothing stronger about a TIG weld than any other kind of weld. If you are using the proper filler rod, wire, whatever for the material you are working, and you use the appropriate heat settings for the material you are welding, you will get the same amount of strength for either piece of metal.

A TIG welder does NOT make a "stronger weld" just because you're more comfortable with it.

If this were true, they would stop making the machines that run the other weld processes.

You do realize that an Arc/Stick welder is used most in construction? The bridges you drive over every day are held up with welds done with an Arc welder. The office buildings you go into, skyscrapers, etc. are held up with this process!

The car you drive every day was factory spot welded and machine MIG welded!

You're spreading false information!

Mathius

[jaybee]

Closer to accurate to say that MIG makes it easy for a novice welder to make a weld that looks good on the surface while having insufficient penetration and strength?

[Mathius]

Closer to accurate to say that MIG makes it easy for a novice welder to make a weld that looks good on the surface while having insufficient penetration and strength?

No, if you had said MIG is an easier process and left it at that, I might agree with you. I could probably teach a monkey to MIG weld, albeit not structurally.

But it's just as easy for someone to TIG weld a piece and have it not be strong.

Any time you run a bead on anything thicker than sheet metal, if you haven't had formal training, or plenty of experience, then you run the risk of not knowing what you're doing and leaving imperfections, or just plain poor penetration.

Not to mention, depending on the material you're welding, (such as cast iron for example) you could very well put down a beautifully layered weld and still have the weld literally just fall out if the piece isn't cooled properly.

I'm not saying everyone has to go to school to be a welder, but without practicing and having some method of checking what you're doing be it a destructive test with a vise, or someone else to look over your shoulder while you're doing it, you run the risk of creating something that is unsafe.

And it has nothing to do with the type of welder.

TIG has become a very preferred method of welding because it allows total control. You control the amount of filler rod added. You control the amount of heat with your foot pedal. You can also get into a lot of places with a TIG that a large MIG nozzle won't fit into.

But for these same reasons, it's harder to learn how to TIG, because you have to learn to use that control you're being given. That's why TIG welders generally get paid more. (although nowadays almost everyone requires you to be able to use all processes)

Somewhere along the line, someone figured out the "elite" welders were using the TIG welders, and that a TIG setup costs twice as much as a MIG, and they decided it makes for a better welder.

I'll say it again. Given that heat settings, filler material, and base materials are equal, you can do the same thing with a MIG that you can do with a TIG, and get the same results, and the same amount of strength.

There is nothing special about a TIG welder that makes it stronger.

Mathius

[52deluxe]

lay it down Mathius.......

[FabUThis]

Each process has its place . If you think your going to weld a intake manifold ,intercooler or 16gauge piping with a spoolgun and end up with the same product now thats a false statement !

[Mathius]

Each process has its place . If you think your going to weld a intake manifold ,intercooler or 16gauge piping with a spoolgun and end up with the same product now thats a false statement !

I guarantee you you could with enough practice. You could do it with an acetylene torch and get the same results with the proper flux and control.

Stop saying things are impossible just because they are hard.

Aluminum is harder to weld than steel. It tends to go from solid to mush quickly and doesn't change color much unlike steel.

I'm telling you as someone who is certified on 1/4" aluminum and stainless in TIG that even as a certified welder, I still find it difficult to weld aluminum for _structural_ purposes. It's just damn hard to tell what kind of penetration you're getting without an x-ray or seeing the other side of the material.

It's easier to weld aluminum with TIG than anything else, again because there's more control over the heat, and that gives you a big advantage when welding aluminum.

But it's still possible to do it just as effectively with another process. With MIG, you'd have to have a big machine to do what you're challenging me to do, but it could be done.

Unless you're just telling me there wouldn't be room to fit the spoolgun in the required space, which is a possibility. But otherwise, it's doable.

Mathius

[FabUThis]

I get it your CERTIFIED welcome to the club .I didn't say anything about being impossible . You said you would get the same results from a MIG not a torch . Make no mistake I'm not challenging you to do anything . If you want to waste you time trying to weld 16 gauge tube with a spool gun have at it .
Good luck on your control arms you seem to have all the answers they shouldn't be a problem for you .

[Mathius]

I get it your CERTIFIED welcome to the club .I didn't say anything about being impossible .

You might as well have. This is what you said:


If you think your going to weld a intake manifold ,intercooler or 16gauge piping with a spoolgun and end up with the same product now thats a false statement !

The way I'm reading that, it sounds like you're saying that if I say it's possible for someone to do that, then I'm lying or otherwise incorrect.


You said you would get the same results from a MIG not a torch .

I can, but you're reading it wrong. I didn't say use a torch, I said you can do it with a MIG or a torch. Either method will work. TIG is going to be easier, no doubt.


Make no mistake I'm not challenging you to do anything . If you want to waste you time trying to weld 16 gauge tube with a spool gun have at it .

For a guy who already has a $700 MIG and a spool gun, it isn't a waste of time, if he has to put out another $2k to buy a TIG.


Good luck on your control arms you seem to have all the answers they shouldn't be a problem for you .

If I had all the answers I wouldn't have posted in this forum. All I was trying to say is I'm a competent welder, so I'm not lookin for welding help, or someone saying it's too hard.

I need help with the fabrication side of it because I don't know how these things are assembled, particularly where the bushings are installed, and how the grease ports work.

If you're going to post a contriversial (and challenging) statement like you did, you should expect to get called out for it, so don't get upset with me because I said you were wrong.

Mathius

[FabUThis]

Sorry for hearing it wrong .

[FabUThis]

It's not upset that I'm wrong its that I spent so much money on a TIG I guess I didn't need .
Sorry again don't know want I was thinking .

Fab-U-This / another competent welder

[Mathius]

It's not upset that I'm wrong its that I spent so much money on a TIG I guess I didn't need .
Sorry again don't know want I was thinking .

Fab-U-This / another competent welder

<shrug> You probably don't _need_ it, but it's definately going to serve you better than any other welder. It's a lot easier to TIG aluminum than with a spool gun (as we already said). You can also weld just about anything with a TIG with the right tungsten and filler rod, from stainless, to aluminum, to exotic metals like brass (lots of fumes, wear a ventilator mask) or bronze.

As I already said, it gives you more control too. Personally I'd love to have one.

I freely admit I'm not as good with a MIG as I am with a TIG, but it's because I don't have a lot of respect for MIG, so I never spent much time with it, except now that I can't afford a TIG, I rely totally on my MIG.

Mathius

[taylorl572]

You definately did NOT waste your money on a Tig, dont feel bad at all TIG is far more versatile than any other welding process. When i started welding it was with a mig and eventually i decided i wanted a tig so i bought a miller syncrowave 200 i recently water cooled it and i love it. sure I still use the crappy,dirty wire feed for non structural stuff like benches, racks and sheet metal patching. but other than that I TIG. Even at one of my jobs where i finish weld motorcyle frames (Twisted choppers) we tig the frames only theirs no way we would wire weld a customers frame. So basically what im trying to say is dont regret buying a tig for one second they are the Sh*t.

It's not upset that I'm wrong its that I spent so much money on a TIG I guess I didn't need .
Sorry again don't know want I was thinking .

Fab-U-This / another competent welder

[Mathius]

You definately did NOT waste your money on a Tig, dont feel bad at all TIG is far more versatile than any other welding process. When i started welding it was with a mig and eventually i decided i wanted a tig so i bought a miller syncrowave 200 i recently water cooled it and i love it. sure I still use the crappy,dirty wire feed for non structural stuff like benches, racks and sheet metal patching. but other than that I TIG. Even at one of my jobs where i finish weld motorcyle frames (Twisted choppers) we tig the frames only theirs no way we would wire weld a customers frame. So basically what im trying to say is dont regret buying a tig for one second they are the Sh*t.

Yeah, a TIG is a far superior welder. It just touched a nerve with me when you guys were trying to say a TIG makes a stronger weld, because that is not true. But it does have a lot more uses, a lot more control, etc. as said above.

Mathius

[Twin_Turbo]

If you can mig weld properly you can make the welds look almost as attractive as nice tig welds.

[Air Daddy]

Can someone give a few pointers on building a set of these: http://www.scandc.com/currectrac.htm

They don't seem to make a set for my '76 Chevy Malibu.

I am a certified welder. I need help with understanding how those are assembled. Particularly the grease ports, and what bushings are used. These are supposed to be superior suspension parts to help with bind in a 4-link situation, so I was hoping to duplicate them for my own purposes.

Mathius

Hey Math,
I found this. They say they are $34.99each.
2 5/8 wide.
The only problem is the grease fitting is in the bolt.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Air Daddy]

If you can mig weld properly you can make the welds look almost as attractive as nice tig welds.

Almost.....Just not as small.:)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Twin_Turbo]

why did you grind the welds on the right? I like exposed clean welds like that, you have too little pride ;) :D

[Mathius]

Hey Math,
I found this. They say they are $34.99each.
2 5/8 wide.
The only problem is the grease fitting is in the bolt.


Where did you find those? And is there a problem with the grease fitting being in the bolt? As long as it works, I don't care. But how hard would it be for me later to get a replacement bushing also?

Mathius

[Mathius]

Almost.....Just not as small.:)

Yeah, but even that can be compensated for. They make smaller MIG wire. I used 0.23 wire on my floor pans and I was able to run a full bead without burning through on 18ga.

Personally I prefer the standard .30 or .35 in a MIG. Better versatility. Ever try to tack anything with 0.23 wire? Not very strong.

Mathius

[Air Daddy]

Do a search for “Johnny Joints”
Here is one link….
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/johnnyjoints.aspx

It looks like replacement parts would be available.

[MonzaRacer]

I agree with Mathius, I have seen a fella (on my intake) use a spool gun and build up where the idiot porting it got all out of shape and trashed the intake.
As for a good priced TIG check out Thermadyne, they have one called Dragster 85 its a scratch TIG and a stick welder. I am bringing one home when taxes come in. As for MIG I have my Astro Pneumatic 110 Mig and I can lay down some pretty good welds with gas or flux core.
I got to help hang some quarters for a friend after he got the Dragster 85 and we hung one with almost no filler rod. i fit the quarter for like 3 days and had it very smooth and when it drew up (what little it did ) it was perfect. I practiced on razor blades (this was fun as i wound up taking all of the practice ones and made his daughter a razorblade picture frame (she was way into punk rock stuff for a while and a good friend).
It is a scratch TIG which takes a little getting used too and I would have prefered to learn on a large r model with a pedal butthose are very expensive and the $350 price tag is very inviting. And we swapped out parts and I built up the NOS ports and tacked injector bungs for him, didnt have enough rod to do the welding of the bungs so he took it to work and had them finish it, and they comented on how clean my tacks were.http://www.thermadyne.com/evolution/brandProductSpecific.asp?mernbr=1&div=tai&catnbr=98&pdtnbr=553
Here is the welder link.
Good Luck
Lee Abel