Manual vs. Auto

[70 LS1]

Planning the next project and need some opinions. Car will be 1968 firebird with C5 suspension front and rear.

One of the things I am having trouble deciding is the trans. Can't decide to go with a T56 or an Auto? Which would you choose and why?

This car will not see the track and will just be a performance cruiser. I have a T56 in my 1970 Corvette now and sometimes I wish it was an auto. But at the same time, I had an auto in my daily driver and sometimes wish it was a manual.

[79PonchoUK]

Personally, Manual every time.

You have more control, no changing gear at an awkward time - just nicer for thrashing in general.

Autos are for cruising in town or for when you cant find a manual fast/strong enough. lol

[TPI Monte SS]

How are you going to drive it? Planning on sitting in a lot of traffic, or running on the open roads? You'll be grateful for an auto if there's traffic, but if it's going to be a fun-as-all-hell street car, go for the T56! Yanking the auto and putting the 5-speed in my Monte was one of the best things I did.

[THX 138]

Autos are good if you have column shift and a bench seat to have your girl close, otherwise stick all the way.

[79PonchoUK]

Autos are good if you have column shift and a bench seat to have your girl close, otherwise stick all the way.

Im yet to experience that (the bench seat, not the girl. lol)

I would imagine there are only a few problems to overcome with having two girls close on a bench seat. :smoke:

[70 LS1]

hmmm, maybe a paddle shift auto would be the best of both. That way you can shift when you want and leave it in auto in traffic.

[formula]

I wonder if a column shift car could be converted to paddle shift, provided you switch to a more modern tranny? I love the idea of a big old couch of a front seat, love the control that paddle shift provides, but have no idea how auto's really work as far as shifter placement and such, having only owned and worked on manual cars.

[Jewce]

It is my personal opinion that all people should be required to have a manual unless you are physically unable to drive a manual (not mentally - if you can't drive a manual due to mental reasons, you shouldn't be driving at all). Autos are boring, manuals are engaging, even in traffic. But that's just my opinion.

Of course this is coming from someone who owns an auto pickup. It was cheap and available when I bought it. I hate driving it every time I get in.

[Bandit]

I personally am also of the opinion that autos are for old grannies, handicapped people (as Jewce said), and serious drag racers only! Funny how over here in Europe you have to special order an auto trans on your car, all the cars have sticks! Gas is very expensive and the cars must be efficient, so they run OD manuals! I too believe that shifting your own gears makes driving safer due to you having more interaction with the vehicle. The only reason I can see that most cars in the US have autos is we're a bunch of lazy bums--we will pay a $1000 "gas guzzler" tax just so we don't have to be inconvenienced to shift our own gears! Or is it that we want an auto so we can engage in other activities with the other hand while driving--talking on the phone, slurping down a Big Gulp, or smacking the kid upside the head--none of which should be done while driving anyway!

Manuals save horsepower, give you better gas mileage, and are a lot more fun to drive!
So what's to decide?

[wantahertzdonut]

Manual. I can't say anything more than what's already been said. I'm sick to death of autos.

[69bigblock]

Had my car, 4spd manual for about 12 years and changed to auto. Just got lazy.. Well can't be that lazy if the auto is manual valve body... LOL

[parsonsj]

I'm a manual guy.

[short language rant]I gotta ask though: why do people call them "sticks"? Wouldn't that make automatics "stones" or something? I recognize that at one time some folks referred to a "stickshift", but how is that different from an automatic? Don't you also shift the automatic by moving the "stick"? I guess I should try to get over that.
[/short language rant]:cheers:

jp

[THX 138]

I'm a manual guy.

[short language rant]I gotta ask though: why do people call them "sticks"? Wouldn't that make automatics "stones" or something? I recognize that at one time some folks referred to a "stickshift", but how is that different from an automatic? Don't you also shift the automatic by moving the "stick"? I guess I should try to get over that.
[/short language rant]:cheers:

jpthere's been pushbutton autos :ssst:

[6'9"Witha69]

there's been pushbutton autos :ssst:Now they are paddle shifted.

If you are going in it the first time, Manual. I had an auto, stayed auto, just can't get them to live very long. Wish I had converted long ago . . .

[Samckitt]

I say manual all the way. The T56 was the best thing I could have done to the Monte. GM should have built them that way. Over 300hp under the hood helps too. But you already have one car with a manual. You could drive it when you wanted to bang gears. Flip a coin...?

[Bow Tie 67]

I'm biased, I have never owned a FUN car without a manual. There is nothing like being in control of the car completely. I have a T56 and it is by far the nicest manual I have owned. My 4th gen has 3.42 gears and in 6th at 70 mph its running 1500 rpm. And banging gears the car gets sideways 1st throught 3rd.

[70 LS1]

But you already have one car with a manual. You could drive it when you wanted to bang gears. Flip a coin...?

And here's my dillema. I will be selling the corvette to fund the firebird project, otherwise I would do an auto in the bird and have the vette to bang gears when I wanted.

[steemin]

Another vote for manual:headbang:
IMHO.......
For a daily driver point A to point B (Ho Hum)Auto works best.
But every car that I have ever owned that was strictly for driving enjoyment has been a manual...
I love to bang the gears baby!
Scott

[ACEFOOTER]

I will be converting from Turbo 400 to a T56 this winter. I hated being on a curvy road with no engine braking. Since it's not a daily driver I figure I can get stuck once and a while in stop and go and live with it.

[RobM]

my new truck has the first automatic tranny i have ever owned and after a month of driving the thing i already miss my manual. the only classic car id own with a auto is an old caddy or a lincoln. every thing else has to be a hands on experiance

[Project69]

Well I personally like the auto's due to there off-the-line capabilities. You just cant beat the stall from a dig. But open roads the manual rules, so pick your poison. I got the best of both worlds with my car, 3.08 gears and a 2800 stall allows me to pull down low and up top :woot:

[Steve Chryssos]

Should you choose an automatic, be sure to go with an electronic automatic overdrive transmission. They can be custom built and calibrated to work extremely well in a "handling" environment. I have both T56 manual and manumatic equipped vehicles at my disposal. I enjoy both types thoroughly.
Unfortunately, most people have absolutely no personal driving experience with hot rod manumatics. Most opinions are based on 60 year old "slushbox" technology--not current computerized design.
I offer an open invitation for anyone to come take a test drive in one of Twist's paddle shifted house cars. I guarantee that you will enjoy the experience. More than likely, you will gain an appreciation for manumatics as reliable, versatile, effective and fun. And yes, the cool factor is most definitely present. Hundreds of people have opened their minds to the concept. Not one customer was dissatisfied. And the technology gets better every day. In addition to paddle shifting, we can now offer six speeds, engine braking, multi-disc lock up clutches, and more.

If you're at all on the fence, you should at least contact us to discuss the pros and cons of manumatic technology before you take your wallet out.

[aonghus]

Im yet to experience that (the bench seat, not the girl. lol)

I would imagine there are only a few problems to overcome with having two girls close on a bench seat. :smoke:

Mclaren figured that one out back in 1996.

I personally am going T56 route, more control less money (I suppose thats relative though.) I'm sure our resident manumatic guru Steve could answer this question, but the main thing that keeps me from a manumatic is the lack of rev matching, I feel I'll have more precise control versus an automatic. I've driven a couple of Audi's with DSG transmissions in them, liked it a lot, drove an E46 M3 with an SMG (electronically governed hydraulic type auto), Not so fun.

Its you're call in the end though.

[rolltide]

Basic rule of thumb...it you can hear the engine from the driver's position...manual.

[70 LS1]

In addition to paddle shifting, we can now offer six speeds, engine braking, multi-disc lock up clutches, and more.

Can you PM me on some of these other things? Your site only talks about the paddle shifter.

[Steve Chryssos]

deleted: double post

[Steve Chryssos]

Better to share with everyone:

Engine braking video from RTH2. Bowler 4L60E with modified valve body.
https://www.pro-touring.com/events/pigeon_forge_2006/air-ride-2nd-gen-camaro-medium.wmv
http://www.bowlertransmissions.com

Multi-Disc Lock Up Clutch Torque Converter:
http://www.converter.com/vigilante.htm

Bowler also can build a 4L60E with a modified schematic that works as a six speed.

[Steve Chryssos]

Mclaren figured that one out back in 1996.

I personally am going T56 route, more control less money (I suppose thats relative though.) I'm sure our resident manumatic guru Steve could answer this question, but the main thing that keeps me from a manumatic is the lack of rev matching, I feel I'll have more precise control versus an automatic. I've driven a couple of Audi's with DSG transmissions in them, liked it a lot, drove an E46 M3 with an SMG (electronically governed hydraulic type auto), Not so fun.

Its you're call in the end though.

DSG is awesome. Some day all cars will be DSG since it offers true manual trans function and true automatic convenience. SMG is junk by comparison. And driving factory manumatics does not paint an accurate picture since the calibrations are set up for grandma. In your hot rod, you will be able to calibrate firmness to your personal taste.

As for rev matching, that is one thing that a torque converter cannot do. We never claim to replace the manual transmission drivinng experience--just enhance the automatic driving experience.

But lets face it, very few hot rodders actually know how to heel and toe downshift, anyway. And only a small percentage of hot rodders know how to do it properly.

[Steve Chryssos]

Mclaren figured that one out back in 1996.

I personally am going T56 route, more control less money (I suppose thats relative though.) I'm sure our resident manumatic guru Steve could answer this question, but the main thing that keeps me from a manumatic is the lack of rev matching, I feel I'll have more precise control versus an automatic. I've driven a couple of Audi's with DSG transmissions in them, liked it a lot, drove an E46 M3 with an SMG (electronically governed hydraulic type auto), Not so fun.

Its you're call in the end though.

DSG is awesome. Some day all cars will be DSG since it offers true manual trans function and true automatic convenience. SMG is junk by comparison. And driving factory manumatics does not paint an accurate picture since the calibrations are set up for grandma. In your hot rod, you will be able to calibrate firmness to your personal taste.

As for rev matching, that is one thing that a torque converter cannot do. We never claim to replace the manual transmission drivinng experience--just enhance the automatic driving experience.

But lets face it, very few hot rodders actually know how to heel and toe downshift, anyway. And only a small percentage of hot rodders know how to do it properly.

[70 LS1]

Better to share with everyone:

Engine braking video from RTH2. Bowler 4L60E with modified valve body.
https://www.pro-touring.com/events/pigeon_forge_2006/air-ride-2nd-gen-camaro-medium.wmv
http://www.bowlertransmissions.com

Multi-Disc Lock Up Clutch Torque Converter:
http://www.converter.com/vigilante.htm

Bowler also can build a 4L60E with a modified schematic that works as a six speed.

Thanks for the info, Steve.

So is engine braking different than holding the trans in one gear while you slow down? Or does it automatically downshift when you hit the brakes?

How do you get a 4L60E to work as a six speed?

[Steve Chryssos]

Thanks for the info, Steve.
So is engine braking different than holding the trans in one gear while you slow down? Or does it automatically downshift when you hit the brakes?
How do you get a 4L60E to work as a six speed?

Maybe it's time to move this thread to the trans section?

[Ummgawa]

Shift em if you got em,stick shifts all the way

[Bandit]

Real cars have 3 pedals...

[aonghus]

[quote=streetfytr68]DSG is awesome. ...SMG is junk by comparison. And driving factory manumatics does not paint an accurate picture since the calibrations are set up for grandma.quote]

Though IMHO SMG is a sad sad attempt at competition for DSG, It'd be a far-fetched argument to say that cars like the E46 M3 are tuned for grandma.

And I think Steve put it right, paddleshifting manumatic applications for our cars aren't intended to replace mannuals, but they do a dang good job of making an automatic a helluva lot more fun than drivin' a rental car!

[Steve Chryssos]

Real cars have 3 pedals...

I hear that a lot.

[Steve Chryssos]

....It'd be a far-fetched argument to say that cars like the E46 M3 are tuned for grandma...


Didn't mean to lump SMG into the "slow calibration" set. I was referring to the calibrations of most manumatics. SMG works awesome during performance driving, but is somewhat clumsy during low speed maneuvers (i.e. parallel parking). DSG works well during all circumstances.