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View Full Version : Do first gen Camaro's really need subframe bushings?



Stu Seitz
11-27-2006, 05:17 PM
I was just thinking, I already have 1/2 inch drop GW solid bushings. What would be the disadvantage of getting rid of them all together? Besides the obviouse header/tranny/inner fender clearance, would it be a bad idea to take them out and just mount the subframe direclty to the body?

PhillipM
11-27-2006, 05:33 PM
I too looked into doing something like this and I finally decided that I would be WAY to much work for 1/2 in. The floor would need to be cut and sectioned.

hotroddr
11-30-2006, 05:42 AM
I have done this on my car. no problems except for the steering coupler. I replaced the stock rubber coupler(rag joint) with a flaming river universal joint to allow the column to work at that angle.

hotroddr
12-08-2006, 08:44 AM
I finally got a couple pictures to show what I did. These are not the flattering pictures because I have yet to fully detail the bottom of my car so forgive me for that. After doing this the difference was really quite impressive. There is a huge difference in responsiveness and firmness of ride when 30+ year old bushings are removed.
This is the farthest back mount on the subframe. I removed the bushing between the body and the frame and replaced the stock rubber one with competition engineering's solid one mainly because I had it already. There is no clearance between the frame and the floor now.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
This picture is peeking up from the wheelwell. This is the middle mount, also no clearance, same procedure as the other mount.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
The radiator core support was a little different. I just replaced the bolts and put washers on either side with no bushings at all. Once again, no more gap between the body and the frame.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

********DISCLAIMER ************
If you choose to do this you MUST replace the steering coupler with a universal joint because the steering column to steering gear angle now exceeds the safe working range of the stock coupler. My steering column had a non removable mount for a steering couple so I replaced it with a steering column with a DD shaft so that I had a way to attach a universal joint.

Stu Seitz
12-08-2006, 05:45 PM
This picture is peeking up from the wheelwell. This is the middle mount, also no clearance, same procedure as the other mount.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Can you take a picture of the opposite side of the frame rail? Looking at my Camaro it seems that the sub frame would come in contact with the floor right around that area.

Norwoodx55
12-08-2006, 08:38 PM
Have you tried to remove your transmission crossmember since removing the bushings?

David Pozzi
12-08-2006, 09:02 PM
Have you tried to remove your transmission crossmember since removing the bushings?

Things to consider:
Trans crossmember removal
Drive shaft angle
Steering column alignment to box
lakewood bellhousing flange to throttle arm clearance
fan to shroud clearance
air cleaner to hood clearance
transmission to trans tunnel clearance
header to floor clearance
clutch fork to firewall clearance
front tire to fender lip clearance

hotroddr
12-09-2006, 01:30 AM
Things to consider:
1. Trans crossmember removal
2. Drive shaft angle
3. Steering column alignment to box
4. lakewood bellhousing flange to throttle arm clearance
5. fan to shroud clearance
6. air cleaner to hood clearance
7. transmission to trans tunnel clearance
8. header to floor clearance
9. clutch fork to firewall clearance
10. front tire to fender lip clearance
First off your engine transmission combo may present problems to you if you remove your body bushings. I have a small block chevy and a th350 in it for now. That may be why I didnt have a problem. Other combinations, especially 6 speed manuals probably will run into clearance issues.

1. I have never removed the crossmember and I have pulled the engine 5 or 6 times before I did this, I have not pulled the engine since I removed the bushings though. It might be more difficult, but nothing that loosening the subframe bolts couldnt remedy, this will no longer be possible after the subframe connectors are installed. Thats something to think about.

2. I doubt that this changes the driveshaft angle enough to cause a problem. I guess I dont understand this as well as I should, I thought the important thing was the pinion angle in relation to the output shaft of the transmission. If the whole subframe moves up an inch that shouldnt change the angle of the output shaft in relation to the pinion, correct? I dont know about universal joint operating range, maybe there is something there I didnt take into account.

3. My disclaimer at the bottom of my last post stresses that this is VERY important. The steering coupler WILL fail if you run it with removed bushings. I replaced mine with a universal joint after driving a few miles and noticing more steering effort due to the bent coupler, I found out where my steering play was coming from after I noticed the split in the coupler. Dont risk this, I only drove around the neighborhood in the 25 mph zone, Im glad I found this before it went out on the freeway

4. I was ok on this one. I have enough clearance between the hood and the air cleaner, except for that one time i broke a motor mount, but that was before I removed the bushings.

5. My fan shroud was too high to begin with, it fits the fan more symmetric now than it did before.

6. no problem with a th350

7. Dont tell anyone but I dont have headers, D'OH. They have been on the wish list for 10 years but the ones I want are expensive and I have too much other stuff going on to deal with them.

8. N/A

9. I do rub a little on hard corners but it did that before, its just a little worse now. I will cut out the outer portion of the wheelwell since thats where it rubs. Part of the problem is backspacing alignment and tire size.

All these points are things to take into consideration before doing this. I didnt have any problems except for the steering column to gear angle.