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View Full Version : BossEFI™ - The World's First Turnkey EFI System???



Garymac69
11-21-2006, 06:33 PM
Have you EFI experts seen this new EFI system that looks like a Holley? I had been wondering when someone would come up with this for musclecars. This might provide most benefits of a complete EFI system and would allow me to keep the complete cowl induction air filter assembly for a stock look. My friend has one of their retro EFI systems on his '55 Buick that works real good.

http://www.retrotekspeed.com/

camcojb
11-21-2006, 07:38 PM
self-tuning systems have come out before. They rarely live up to the hype.

I have no experience with this system, but the tune is the key to any EFI system, and not being able to do the tuning would be a huge negative to me.

Jody

Hammered
11-21-2006, 07:43 PM
You can use a holley flange throttle body to keep a "stock" configuration with cowl induction. That's what I did: http://www.my67.net/john/engine3.htm

After starting from zero with my setup, I don't see the aversion to tuning. It has been pretty simple so far with the wideband 02 sensor. Now that we're into winter, I'm doing a little cold start-up tuning. I have the Accel Gen7 which many say is one of the harder systems to learn.

Garymac69
11-22-2006, 09:56 AM
It seems that you would need to turn the auto-tuning feature off at some point. I've requested more info from the company. Actually, I was really looking forward to the tuning part of the project. (my profession is a Control System Engineer).

Hammered,
Nice job on the cowl induction and EFI setup. I was concerned with the fuel rails clearing the filter base on my SB Chevy, but yours looked like it worked out well. That's the major reason I was interested in this product, plus the reduced wiring and installation requirements. Looks like you made the wiring look pretty nice too.

Gary

BonzoHansen
11-22-2006, 10:30 AM
So is that essentially a TBI setup with no spark control?

BRIAN
11-22-2006, 12:07 PM
Barry Grant had a similar carb looking fuel injection unit but it has disappeared from their site.

Kenova
11-22-2006, 02:20 PM
Barry Grant had a similar carb looking fuel injection unit but it has disappeared from their site.
The injectors in BG's unit fed the fuel into venturi boosters just as a carb does. The theory was that you could have the tunability of electronic injection with the "superior atomization" of a carb. Sounded like just the ticket for retrofitting onto carbed engines, but I didn't see much flexability for tuning and the price seemed a little high.
Ken

JMarsa
11-22-2006, 06:28 PM
I prefer a sytem that has sequential injectors.

--JMarsa

andrewb70
11-22-2006, 08:54 PM
The trickiest part to any self proclaimed "self tuning" EFI is the code. If they did it right, in theory its possible that it will work as advertised.

Andrew

71Formula
11-22-2006, 09:08 PM
I contacted them, and got a lengthy email back that may be of help to others considering this system:



Thank you for your interest in the all-new RetroTek BossEFI system. The
story in Hot Rod magazine came out a little early and our site was not ready
to go up so we will be adding info daily.

PRICING
To answer some basic questions, the system is set to target the $2000.00
price range for the 930cfm body and comes as a complete package. The
Throttle body bolts in place of a Holley or similar 4 barrel and has the
same overall dimensions, so the air cleaner will remain in the same
location.

SELF-TUNING COMPUTER
The computer is the first self-tuning system available and is a speed
density ,closed loop system . We use a PLX wide band (included) and the
system delivers hands free tuning at all loads and RPM²s. The key to our
system is its VE SYNC which reads the air fuel of your engine and re-writes
the base fuel table to deliver the exact Target Air Fuel ratio desired for
your engine. This can be done while viewing the info on a laptop, or without
one. The system re-programs itself so the oxygen sensor does not have to
work to correct an inaccurate calibration each time you run your engine.
Once this is done you can leaved the O2 in place to compensate for various
fuel and elevation differences. A video demonstrating a system being tuned
will be posted on the site shortly so keep checking it out.

ADDITIONAL COMPONENTS
The kit comes with a high pressure fuel pump that mounts on the chassis at
or below the fuel tank . For over 500HP and larger applications, an
ultra-high performance pump is required for an additional charge. Also there
is no need for a return fuel line although one may be used along with an EFI
bypass regulator. The return-less system is included in the kit but the
bypass style system is not included and can be purchased separately.

ECU & WIRING DETAILS
The computers dimensions are 6-inches long, 4.5-inches wide, and 1.65-inches
high; and it can be mounted either under the dash or in another dry
location. All wiring features weather pack connectors and are completely
terminated although you are required to install an o2 sensor bung in the
exhaust pipe. This can be done in one side only by any muffler shop and the
bung is included.

SYSTEMS AVAILABLE
There BossEFI comes in 2 sizes, 930 & 1200 cfm ratings. The 930 will handle
up to 650hp and the 1200 is good for 900+hp with the correct size injectors.
There is a simple formula to size the injectors. We use 4 so the math is:

HP divided by 2 /4 = injector size.

The computer is capable of very small pulse widths so it is better to be a
little large in this area. An example of this is 500hp/2/4 = 62.5lbs. In this
case we would use 63 lb injectors.For Dual Quad systems we would have 8 injectors so HP/2/8= injector size. 500hp/2=250/8=31.25. We would supply 8 32lb injectors in the kit. You can use this simple math to work up any HP combo you have. This is a Quick tip only,call us if you are un sure. All necessary sensors are included so
this is a true bolt on system!!

RELEASE DATE & FURTHER INFO
We will be sending out periodic emails with more details about the BossEFI
system up to the Spring 2007 release date. Please stay tuned, as THE MOST
EXCITING NEW PERFORMANCE PRODUCT IN 20 YEARS is about to REVOLUTIONIZE your
vehicle.

Thanks for your interest,
RetroTek Speed

carbuff
11-22-2006, 10:02 PM
I don't claim to be any kind of expert on EFI, but I think it's pretty straightforward to do this... The reason I say that is I did a very similar thing with my old FAST system in my 70 Camaro.

It really wasn't that hard to do. I wrote a piece of code that could read in the current Target AF ratio table and VE table, and then it read in the data log results after a drive and capture session. I would use the data log results to determine an average of how far off the ECU was at any MAP position based on the targeted AF ratio vs. the actual AF ratio. Then it generated a new VE table as the output. It was pretty basic, but I did set parameters like how many data log results were required for a VE table 'adjustment' before I would use the results to modify the original table. The longer I drove and the wider the engine range I hit on a run, the more modifications would occur.

After about 3 or 4 extended driving and capture sessions, there was very little change ever calculated to most of the table. What was modified at that point were the fringe areas that I didn't hit often, so I would usually modify those manually...

It was fun writing that, and the more I tweaked it, the quicker I could dial in the tune. Trust me, on the first few iterations, I checked things out VERY carefully before reflashing the FAST. :)

71Formula
11-23-2006, 08:12 AM
I don't claim to be any kind of expert on EFI, but I think it's pretty straightforward to do this... The reason I say that is I did a very similar thing with my old FAST system in my 70 Camaro.

It really wasn't that hard to do. I wrote a piece of code that could read in the current Target AF ratio table and VE table, and then it read in the data log results after a drive and capture session. I would use the data log results to determine an average of how far off the ECU was at any MAP position based on the targeted AF ratio vs. the actual AF ratio. Then it generated a new VE table as the output. It was pretty basic, but I did set parameters like how many data log results were required for a VE table 'adjustment' before I would use the results to modify the original table. The longer I drove and the wider the engine range I hit on a run, the more modifications would occur.

After about 3 or 4 extended driving and capture sessions, there was very little change ever calculated to most of the table. What was modified at that point were the fringe areas that I didn't hit often, so I would usually modify those manually...

It was fun writing that, and the more I tweaked it, the quicker I could dial in the tune. Trust me, on the first few iterations, I checked things out VERY carefully before reflashing the FAST. :)

That is a good idea writing something like that, would you by chance be interested in sharing it with others? I wouldn't mind seeing the code you wrote, or at least a running example. I have always been interested in little ideas like that.

Hammered
11-23-2006, 05:46 PM
Gary: Thank you for the compliments. I'm very happy with how it turned out, but rewiring the ecm to clean up the harness is not for the faint of heart.

I have wondered why the big names (FAST, Accel, BS3, etc...) haven't done what car buff has done. I wanted to do the same as carbuff, but there is no way to port the Accel Gen7 data to another program.

andrewb70
11-23-2006, 06:03 PM
There are a lot of other systems, mostly european and from Australia that have some kind of "self tuning" capabilities written into the code. Incidently the Holley Commander 950 fuel maps can be exported into Excel. I would think from there it would be easy to write a program that would look at the log data and make adjustments to the map.

Andrew

Hammered
11-24-2006, 04:04 PM
Incidently the Holley Commander 950 fuel maps can be exported into Excel. I would think from there it would be easy to write a program that would look at the log data and make adjustments to the map.

Yes it would. Unfortunately, there is no way to do this with the Gen7. You cannot even cut and paste while you're in one of the screens. I would like to apply a smoothing routine to my map once I'm happy with it, but I'd have to manually transpose the numbers.

ProTouring442
11-25-2006, 03:47 AM
There are a lot of other systems, mostly european and from Australia that have some kind of "self tuning" capabilities written into the code. Incidently the Holley Commander 950 fuel maps can be exported into Excel. I would think from there it would be easy to write a program that would look at the log data and make adjustments to the map.

Andrew


Anybody know how to do this... tuning my Holley somtime next year!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442 (http://www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442)

carbuff
11-25-2006, 08:52 AM
That is a good idea writing something like that, would you by chance be interested in sharing it with others? I wouldn't mind seeing the code you wrote, or at least a running example. I have always been interested in little ideas like that.
I wouldn't mind at all... I haven't looked at the code in a few years now since I sold the Camaro, but I can dig it up. Trust me, there's nothing much fancy there. I design hardware for a living, not software... :)

PM me if you want me to send you a copy of the code.

Bryan

Fuelie Fan
11-27-2006, 08:47 AM
***Post deleted at Fuelie Fan's request.***

Andrew

ty1295
11-27-2006, 11:12 AM
I have written an excel sheet that does this autotune type stuff. IMO it is a good tool, but isn't a fix everything one. You still need to know how to tune. Autotune can guide you and get you close, but not all the way.

Hammered
11-27-2006, 05:44 PM
IMO it is a good tool, but isn't a fix everything one. You still need to know how to tune.

Yes, but it sure would make things go quicker. Mine is 90+% dialed in so before long it won't matter to me.

96Z28SS
11-28-2006, 11:05 AM
When I had my FAST system in my camaro, I used the L key while driving around in the VE table. I just had to adjust the cells that I didn't use much and it was done.

Mr.VENGEANCE
03-02-2007, 08:57 PM
anyone ever picked up one of these?

68Formula
03-03-2007, 05:00 AM
It seems that you would need to turn the auto-tuning feature off at some point. I've requested more info from the company. Actually, I was really looking forward to the tuning part of the project. (my profession is a Control System Engineer).
Gary

Gary, I would think the Megasquirt II system http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html would be right up your alley. It has a self tuning feature, and you have full control as it is open source code. The downside is you have to build the ECU yourself (there are people that sell built kits for around $400), the wireharness yourself (or again there are kits) and then piecemeal the system together. For someone with your skills it would probably be an enjoyable effort. You can even decide if you want a TBI setup or Multi-point (hint, go for the Multi-point).

MonzaRacer
03-04-2007, 10:08 PM
And the MS2 is CAN capable and you can build a megaview and put it in the dash for limited tuning too.
MS is a neat deal and the deeper you get into it the less scary EFI becomes.

Ahhh21
05-23-2007, 09:32 AM
If you have any questions or doubts just ask and I will tell

72NovaSS
05-23-2007, 03:06 PM
whens your website suppose to be back up?