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View Full Version : Are racing harnesses street legal?



Bandit
11-21-2006, 12:52 AM
I had to do a road safety course at work and it brought up a new question for me. They were discussing safety belts and all, and mentioned that if the stock seatbelt system were removed or tampered with, and you are subsequently killed or injured in a traffic accident, that insurance does not have to cover the costs.
My stock seatbelts need replacing, but rather than replacing them with wimpy original retractable belts, I have some RJS 5-point harnesses that I want to install. They are NHRA-approved of course.
You and I know that the 5-point setup is far safer in reality, but if the worst happens, would the cops and insurance investigators recognize them as legit?

mongoose
11-21-2006, 07:51 PM
Here, They aren't as they aren't certified DOT. But another thing is if you don't have a cage or bar... your neck and head act as one.... If you have a bar... I would just becuase they are actually safer than regular belts. But theres places that normal ones should be used. I'm sure someone else will chime in.

Steve1968LS2
11-21-2006, 08:11 PM
If factory belts were safer then you would think racecars would run them.. lol

In my case it has to be safer than the lapbelt that came with the car.

I would think an insurance company would have a HARD time in court trying deny a claim because the person was using proplerly installed harnesses..

<-- not a lawyer

I will run mine because I don't want to massage the cage with my noggin in an accident.. lol

LS6 Tommy
12-20-2006, 08:32 PM
The only seatbelts that are street legal are the factory ones, period. At least in NJ. Silly, huh?

Tommy

Bandit
12-20-2006, 09:03 PM
I think that would probably be true most places in the states, if you actually checked the law. I don't think anyone would try to enforce it though where I'm from. I am mostly concerned with the situation of IF I was in an accident and injured, would the insurance company try to give me a hard time because I "tampered' with the factory restraining systems...

Damn True
12-20-2006, 10:25 PM
Not in CA they aren't. But you are in Italy so who knows. The consular office should be able to inform you as to vehicle equipment laws or tell you who can give you the info.

Lincoln
12-21-2006, 06:01 AM
Most racing harnesses are not DOT approved, that is what makes them illegal.

There is one company that makes DOT approved racing harnesses, but you also need to make sure they are mounted properly as per DOT specs. I just can’t think of their name right now.

Z06killinSBF
12-21-2006, 06:14 AM
Does this mean my Corbeau harnesses are legal?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

silver69camaro
12-21-2006, 09:32 AM
I would guess so.

BonzoHansen
12-21-2006, 11:16 AM
The only seatbelts that are street legal are the factory ones, period. At least in NJ. Silly, huh?

Tommy
Considering most of the harnesses I see installed are done wrong, they probably should be.

Bandit
12-21-2006, 11:32 AM
Considering most of the harnesses I see installed are done wrong, they probably should be.
Good point...I plan on setting mine up to actually keep me in the car in the event the worst happens...not just to look good. I have T-tops and no roll bar (although I want to install one eventually), so I feel doing it right is doubly important for me. Anyone have any good tips for proper installation? I plan to use heavy eye-bolts and big washers and secure everything really well.

I have floor-mount shoulder belts and I don't need the back seats, would it be effective to secure the shoulder belt mount to the trunk area back under the rear seat area where the rear seat cushions come together? Or should I go straight down behind the driver's seat into the rear floorboard area?

BonzoHansen
12-21-2006, 12:11 PM
"Or should I go straight down behind the driver's seat into the rear floorboard area?" = spinal damage.

By all informed infi I've gotten, you need a cage/rollbar. Ther are a couple of long threads here about it.

Bandit
12-21-2006, 12:24 PM
"Or should I go straight down behind the driver's seat into the rear floorboard area?" = spinal damage.

By all informed infi I've gotten, you need a cage/rollbar. Ther are a couple of long threads here about it.
:doh: Wow, I didn't realize it was like that! :eek: Guess I will do some more research before I install my harnesses.
(BTW Bonzo, I have had a request out for you to join my group on Fquick for like, forever, so please log in and accept!)

chicane67
01-03-2007, 10:20 PM
These: http://www.schrothracing.com/ are legal as well.

JoshStratton
01-05-2007, 06:14 AM
You can always call your state highway patrol orifice. They will get you in touch with a vehicle inspector that will let you know.

69ratfed
01-05-2007, 12:24 PM
I read a post on here some where about this subject before. The one thing that got my attention was, the release button should be noticable like red or some other color than the buckle. Or have "press here" written on it. This is so the medical team that arrives at the scene knows how to unbuckle you quickly without having to cut the belts. But if you are in that kind of a situation, who cares about the belts. I think Stroth mentions something in their advertisement on street belts.

LS6 Tommy
01-15-2007, 10:00 AM
These: http://www.schrothracing.com/ are legal as well.

Not in NJ. NO seatbelts that were not OEM installed are legal. Period.

Tommy

LS6 Tommy
01-15-2007, 10:03 AM
[quote=Z06killinSBF]Does this mean my Corbeau harnesses are legal?quote]

No. It just means the are tested to the DOt and FMVSS standards, not that they are deemed legal by them. Check with your locality.

Tommy

JMarsa
01-16-2007, 09:12 AM
Tommy, I see your point, but last I knew your state government doesn't think anyone is smart enough to pump thier own gas.

--JMarsa

MonzaRacer
01-19-2007, 09:17 PM
Well it has been fought in court and the insurance lost, but fo one reason as long as you have the stock ones in the car(ie a double install so both are present, you cant get a ticket/loss after an accident.
First on the judges mind was weather the belts actually held and svaed the persons life, and second it was determined that the owner custom installed them as the originals were functionally inoperative due to age/abuse/defect/wear. So the owner left the original units in the car for inspections and mounted the harness similarly. AND the judge had to tell the insurance company to stand up under oath and say that the belts were unsafe and caused the wreck (which they didnt and the EMS said they actually saved the passengers lives).
Another thing is that MOST EMS/PARAMEDICS are trained to identifiy aftermarket harness releases as they may have to respond to a race track and remove a person from a so equipt car.
If I had my druthers I would love to run my harness and probably will anyway, but I intend to leave the stock belts installed.
I know RJS has a setup to go to the stock floor mounts as I have a set for one side.
As i intend to build my Monza to be a PT car I will wear them. But as for stock belts I have been hurt more by them than by not wearing ANY belts.
I hit the back of a semi in 94 and because of the way I hit if I had a should belt on I would have been crippled.
If I had a cage/rollbar in my truck them AND a harness I probably would have never been hurt.
Also I know of a few people who have bought Ferrari and Lambo harnesses as they DO have DOT approval.
BUT as for NJ I would simply have both accessable and then they couldnt technically fail an inspection as you would have the proper equipment installed, just have the harness positioned out of way and maybe put simple sign on dash to use harness off road only.
Most bolts can be removed and after you find the actual stock thread size just search the junkyards for longer bolts from different cars. I would almost bet that will pass tech AND state inspections.
I know for one car and Enzo has 5 way harness and its legal in USA.
I would say the Strith units would be acceptable if DOT tested AND you keep the stockers handy.
Good luck and a good question and food for thought as my next Monza has buckle problems.
Lee Abel

GAS
01-19-2007, 11:31 PM
With out well engineered roll over protection, harness could trap you in an upright position.
Improperly installed, a harness can cause even greater injury, even with excellent roll over protection.
I'd stay with the legal stuff.

RE: The Enzo harness, as factory equipment. The car was designed with a very good roll over protection system, of which the harness were just a part. Just because they are legal in an Enzo does not make the Enzo harness legal in any other car.

I had the chance to see the aftermath of an Enzo crash. The doors were gone, the suspension and drive train were torn off the chassis, the windshield blew out.
The shell around the cockpit was in one piece, with the A and B pillars intact, remaining upright. The driver and passenger walked away, because the "system" worked.
This summer, here in Utah there was a state tour to raise funds for family's of State Troopers who lost their lives in the line of duty.
One of the stages consisted of a 15 to 20 mile piece of highway closed to the public for an unlimited speed run, which was clocked by troopers with radar. Fake tickets were issued, and the fine was a healthy donation to the fund, in proportion to the speed you were clocked at. Entry fee alone was $5 K so the "fines" where pretty big also.
Any way, the Enzo went over a small rise in excess of 180 MPH, on landing the chassis scraped the asphalt, turned the car and they went off the road and destroyed the car. They were lucky!

ProTouring442
01-20-2007, 04:07 AM
Tommy, I see your point, but last I knew your state government doesn't think anyone is smart enough to pump thier own gas.

--JMarsa

I helped run a gas station in MD for 15 years... most people are not smart enough to pump their own gas!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442 (http://www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442)

MonzaRacer
01-21-2007, 06:13 PM
With out well engineered roll over protection, harness could trap you in an upright position.
Improperly installed, a harness can cause even greater injury, even with excellent roll over protection.
I'd stay with the legal stuff.

RE: The Enzo harness, as factory equipment. The car was designed with a very good roll over protection system, of which the harness were just a part. Just because they are legal in an Enzo does not make the Enzo harness legal in any other car.

I had the chance to see the aftermath of an Enzo crash. The doors were gone, the suspension and drive train were torn off the chassis, the windshield blew out.
The shell around the cockpit was in one piece, with the A and B pillars intact, remaining upright. The driver and passenger walked away, because the "system" worked.
This summer, here in Utah there was a state tour to raise funds for family's of State Troopers who lost their lives in the line of duty.
One of the stages consisted of a 15 to 20 mile piece of highway closed to the public for an unlimited speed run, which was clocked by troopers with radar. Fake tickets were issued, and the fine was a healthy donation to the fund, in proportion to the speed you were clocked at. Entry fee alone was $5 K so the "fines" where pretty big also.
Any way, the Enzo went over a small rise in excess of 180 MPH, on landing the chassis scraped the asphalt, turned the car and they went off the road and destroyed the car. They were lucky!

One of my points was that DOT approved harness ARE leagal, not wearther it was stock in the car.
Another thing, I wasnt saying that you should run out and buy those particular parts and use them. I was stating that some companies make DOT legal (ie the harness is legal ,weather it is proper for the car I didnt say.) And they do get fitted to cars.
I know one option on board for the new 69 Camaros are DOT legal harnes assemblies. Use of them is not dependant on the setup being tested in a car it means the standards for production are maintained by the manufacturer.
Did you know that if you go down to your local parts store and buy new seat belts those wont be legal if what you say is true.
DOT and FMVSS are standards that the product has to meet not that it was tested in THAT particular car.
I remember buying seat belts for my 69 Pontiac Executive as it had one cut bad.
So I went to local Pontiac dealer and he found right one ,,,,guess what it fit several 69 cars, as well as the Poncho.
The rating only means it meets required standards at time of production.
I still stand by my thought on simply leave stockers inplace and add the harness to same mounting points(I have a set of RJS that will do this and ask a state trooper if it would be ok and said he didnt see why as the stock parts were not removed or actually tampered with(ie modified) in any way.
If you have a state vehicle inspector calling foul on this hes an idiot as you are trying to maintain a safer vehicle for you in a crash and in the event of a lose of control it might even keep you in your seat and in better spot to try and regain control of your vehicle.
As for the Enzo being busted up I had an 86 Monte SS Aerocoupe do 4 endos and lay over and roll 3 more times and the car was back in back on the track in 8 days with new dog house and rear deck/bumper and fresh engine as it ripped the top off the engine. I walked away with bruises. The car had typical cage inside but short runner bars to the engine compartment and it never bent the frame according to the laser frame rack. 2 weeks later it got the roof dent worked out and a repaint and we kept going. BUT this car was a framed car where the Enzo was basicly a monocoque/spaceframe type design over basicly an F1 car, detuned a little.
The Enzo is designed to remove parts to absorb energy in a crash and the part that isnt supposed to bend/break did its job and amasingly enough if the owner has the cash the car can be rebuilt too, at the factory (found this fact out when saw an Enzo crashed in a magzine and knew the salvage yard owner ,,,called to see if anything was left and it was already in container going back to factory) if they so deem it fixable.
Anyway if I ever get my Monza on the road Ill just leave the rusty crap stoickers in it and use the 4/5 way.
Heck if I am in a wreck the first thing I do is get out of the car.Or try to anyway.
Just my honest opinion.
Lee

Madspeed
01-21-2007, 11:14 PM
Is there not something to do with the Emergancy response team having the abillity to use a specific tool to cut the belts In the event they cant undo the buckle?

If memory serves me right this is the actual reason STOCK seatbelts are the only leagal street belts

The aftermarket belts are Much thicker. Think if th emergancy team could not Slit through your belt and you were trapped under water. if you think for one second the team will search for the buckle your out of your mind. As a matter of fact they arent even going to look for the buckle it will get cut. They have a special tool that Slices the belt of AND F A S T. where do you think that cute little letter opener you might have seen came from?

And NO not all memrgancy response teams are trained to use racing style release mechanisms

My 2c =)

LS6 Tommy
02-14-2007, 07:58 AM
Tommy, I see your point, but last I knew your state government doesn't think anyone is smart enough to pump thier own gas.

--JMarsa

It's not the government that prevents self-serve in NJ, it's the gas station owners (the NJGSRA). It's cheaper to hire pump jockeys than to pay for the required amount of liability insurance.:bsjerk:

Tommy

trackrat79
02-14-2007, 09:37 AM
What about cars or trucks that did not come with belts from the factory. IS it then illegal to have belts at all.

69ratfed
02-15-2007, 07:08 AM
That cute littlle opener I was refering to was on one of the racing belt manufacturers, ie Simpsom, Schroth or something like that. They made it a point about street harnesses having that noticeable cute red button for the general public to notice not the emergency team. If you are in an accident the emergency team is NOT the first ones at the scene. The people involved and the cars coming up on the accident are. They will be the ones looking for the release button to help get you out if you are not able to. I really do not think that they have that nifty little tool handy like the emergency response team would have.
That is the reason for the release button to be noticeable to the general public.
I hope that clears up my point of view.



Is there not something to do with the Emergancy response team having the abillity to use a specific tool to cut the belts In the event they cant undo the buckle?

If memory serves me right this is the actual reason STOCK seatbelts are the only leagal street belts

The aftermarket belts are Much thicker. Think if th emergancy team could not Slit through your belt and you were trapped under water. if you think for one second the team will search for the buckle your out of your mind. As a matter of fact they arent even going to look for the buckle it will get cut. They have a special tool that Slices the belt of AND F A S T. where do you think that cute little letter opener you might have seen came from?

And NO not all memrgancy response teams are trained to use racing style release mechanisms

My 2c =)

MalteseFalcon
03-11-2007, 07:33 PM
Here's what I think, FWIW. The only way to know for sure, however, is to have a lawyer in your state review the law and give you an opinion on your particular circumstances.

There are a number of questions that are being rolled up into the thread topic - "Are harness belts legal", which seem to be as follows:

1. Does installing or wearing a racing harness (or removing the factory seat belts) breach a state or federal statute?

-This depends on the specific wording of the statute. If there is a law that says its illegal to remove the original seat belts except to repair or replace them with OEM belts, that's the end of it. If the law doesn't say you can't have additional seat belts, then you can probably have both.

-The effect of breaching the statute is likely a fine, but it can have implications for the insurance coverage, as discussed below.


2. Does installing or wearing a racing harness void your insurance policy?

- It depends on the wording of the policy itself. If the policy says that its void if there are non-factory modifications to your vehicle (or requires you to represent that you have not made any such modifications) then the answer is probably yes. If the policy doesn't deal with that issue, the insurance company has to show that the belts actually caused the accident to occur, caused the injury, or made it worse.

-If installing or wearing the belts is a violation of a law, the insurance policy may provide for the insurer to avoid liability in those circumstances.

3. If installing or wearing a racing harness doesn't void your insurance policy because of its terms, can the insurer avoid paying under the policy if the presence of the harness contributed to the injury?

-In this case, the insurer has to show that the harness actually caused or contributed to the accident or the injury or made the injury worse. While some statutes might change the burdens of proof around in circumstances where a law has been breached, ultimately, if the harness didn't cause or contribute to the accident or the injury, its irrelevent. If it did contribute, its taken into account to the extent that it did.

CraigMorrison
03-12-2007, 10:25 AM
With out well engineered roll over protection, harness could trap you in an upright position.
Improperly installed, a harness can cause even greater injury, even with excellent roll over protection.
I'd stay with the legal stuff.

RE: The Enzo harness, as factory equipment. The car was designed with a very good roll over protection system, of which the harness were just a part. Just because they are legal in an Enzo does not make the Enzo harness legal in any other car.

I had the chance to see the aftermath of an Enzo crash. The doors were gone, the suspension and drive train were torn off the chassis, the windshield blew out.
The shell around the cockpit was in one piece, with the A and B pillars intact, remaining upright. The driver and passenger walked away, because the "system" worked.
This summer, here in Utah there was a state tour to raise funds for family's of State Troopers who lost their lives in the line of duty.
One of the stages consisted of a 15 to 20 mile piece of highway closed to the public for an unlimited speed run, which was clocked by troopers with radar. Fake tickets were issued, and the fine was a healthy donation to the fund, in proportion to the speed you were clocked at. Entry fee alone was $5 K so the "fines" where pretty big also.
Any way, the Enzo went over a small rise in excess of 180 MPH, on landing the chassis scraped the asphalt, turned the car and they went off the road and destroyed the car. They were lucky!

Not to threadjack, but that was the Utah Fast Pass wasn't it? I saw pics of that wreck, and they were lucky!

Ripper
03-13-2007, 03:08 AM
I had to do a road safety course at work and it brought up a new question for me. They were discussing safety belts and all, and mentioned that if the stock seatbelt system were removed or tampered with, and you are subsequently killed or injured in a traffic accident, that insurance does not have to cover the costs.
My stock seatbelts need replacing, but rather than replacing them with wimpy original retractable belts, I have some RJS 5-point harnesses that I want to install. They are NHRA-approved of course.
You and I know that the 5-point setup is far safer in reality, but if the worst happens, would the cops and insurance investigators recognize them as legit?

Don't know about your rules, however the biggest difference between racing harnesses and street versions is the material itself. Street harnesses extends app. 5-6 % during a crasch. This is because they are roller style and the body is catched by the "lock" (pull the belt fast) and after that the belt extend brakes your body and saves your neck.
A racing harness extends 11-15% (probably different depending on type of racing and speed, but that's the numbers I've heard). This means that you need to be really tight strapped to the seat so you don't knock your head into the steering wheel during a crasch. Bolting your seat belt behind the backseat gives probably (yeah, probably... I've never crasched, so I don't know...) to much belt which will extend too far if you crasch. Same thing if they are too short. There's also a risk depending on what type of crasch you're involved in. lower speeds with too little extension will probably hurt your neck if you don't drive around with a HANS helmet and low speed will then "bump" your head in the steering wheel...

There have been some incidents in Sweden during track days where this has happened to people. They have had too long belts or been sitting with them too loose. They have used helmets, but since most of them driving cars with roofs uses an open version, they've still got the steering wheels in their face. None of the accidents I've heard about have caused death or permanent problems, but one day it'll happen...