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ron79
11-17-2006, 09:13 AM
just saw edelbrock is bring out a e-85 carb in apirl of 2007,comes with booklet, where to get the parts to convert your car

Tom Welch
11-18-2006, 03:35 PM
Seems like a poorly thought out idea, to me. E85 is not ever going to be a really viable alternate to gasoline. While it is available it is as expensive to produce as gasoline, and there is never going to be enough corn this side of Jupiter to make it a widely available alternative to gasoline, not to mention the lower BTU rating. Just me ranting I guess.

LowBuckX
11-18-2006, 05:43 PM
Seems like a poorly thought out idea, to me. E85 is not ever going to be a really viable alternate to gasoline. While it is available it is as expensive to produce as gasoline, and there is never going to be enough corn this side of Jupiter to make it a widely available alternative to gasoline, not to mention the lower BTU rating. Just me ranting I guess.

Ethanol can be made from any starch/sugar/cellulose containing material.

You can make ethanol from lawn clippings. Corn is just the poster child. We have a proposed ethanol plant that will take old drink cans 2 liter bottles and other trash to "drain" the contents and make ethanol out of.

MonzaRacer
11-19-2006, 10:00 AM
Tom,
You are so off base, E85 has a very large following,,, lock at Ford/GM have Flex Fuel vehicles in mass production.
While E85 isnt nation wide, yet but the alcohol infrastructure in the USA is growing at an expotential rate. Another reason why alcohol is going to get bigger is the government has dumped MTBE as an oxegenate for fuel as the unburned part (residuals from incomplete combustion) winds up in ground water and can hurt kids.
While it was figured as a good subsitute to lead for octane boosting(see MTBE was also the answer to lead as octane boosting, see a 2 fold fix,,, oxegenate/octane boosting) but long term problems were never found till just last few years ago.
figure it this way E85 is eco friendly, high octane and made from a renewable source(um dont see anymore dinosaurs around anymore) nad the production by product is nonlethal,, actually its even useable,,,for cattle feed. In fact its 26 percent protein distillers dried grains perfect for cattle feed.
As for BTU content well yes it does require a little more fuel to make similar power but the bennifits outweigh to other problems.
Benefits:
1: renewable fuel source with almost no bad attributes.
a:minor part of E85 is gasoline so the actual emissions from hydrocarbons is negligible
b: major emission from alcohol is water and carbon dioxide, both recycled by nature
2: Octane rating of 105 and its useable nationwide (except a few colder states but other blends work in colder climates)
3: Another benifit of running it is less wear an tear as the steam from combustion actually cushions the valves
4: Its just about the most perfect fuel that doesnt require vast amounts of technology to produce and the product for production can be all of the old fruits/vegeetables/organic waste like lawn clippings,leaves even commonly grown switchgrass can produce it and the waste is biodegradeable/used as feed/used as fertilizer.
5: American jobs for American workers in American distilleries (17 have reopened so far in 2006 and more are planed to open/reopen on 2007. AND we can now stop the land banking of farm land as it cna now be used for sugar/starch load crops and it gives more production space for rotation of crops such as soybeans which cna be used for soy diesel.
Detriments:
1: Locating such fuel in certain areas will be complicated but service stations are being built/converted as we speak to provide dispensing for it.
2: Approximately 27% loss in oconomy on a typical gas engine BUT you can increase the compression to offset some of that and when increasing compression in gas engines you get higher NOX levels but not in E85 cars(figure a 6 percent horsepower increase for every 1 point of compression increase so the fuel will work harder making more power letting someone use more overdrive to make it more efficient
3: To modify some engines will require new parts to be compatible with making it somewhat more expensive but if we had a law allowing custom cars running E85 to get a pass on certain emission laws and Flex Fuel cars getting certain others passes.

Ok I can see you being lazy and not getting on the bandwagon but i am as i am designing/prototyping/patenting a flex fuel fuel injection kit for people to install and run.
Alternative fuels are coming , we might as well get onboard.
I am.
Lee Abel
AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE:drive1:

RobM
11-19-2006, 01:44 PM
I'm all for E-85, heck i'm even excited to see what kind of performance gains it will bring! race gas octane with a pump gas price! to me thats a win win. lots of race cars are already using ethanol as a fuel. The stuff is being proven every weekend.

Tech @ BG
11-20-2006, 05:21 AM
There are pros and cons to E85. It’s all a matter of what your reasons are for wanting to convert. E85 will allow you to run a more radical engine on the street without having to use expensive race fuels. It is slightly better for our economy and environment. We’re still using fossil fuels to manufacture E85 from corn at this point, once we get away from that it will help eliminate more of our dependence on foreign oil. Since E85 runs at about 9:1 Air Fuel Ratio you’re going to use 25% to 33% more fuel, so it will actually cost you more money then running standard unleaded fuel. The biggest issue is getting the fuel. Right now there are about 45,000 gas stations in the United States, only about 650 sell E85 right now.

Technical Support,

Barry Grant, Inc.

MarkM66
11-20-2006, 06:28 AM
Seems like a poorly thought out idea, to me. E85 is not ever going to be a really viable alternate to gasoline. While it is available it is as expensive to produce as gasoline, and there is never going to be enough corn this side of Jupiter to make it a widely available alternative to gasoline, not to mention the lower BTU rating. Just me ranting I guess.

:confused:

I doubt Edelbrock thinks E-85 will replace gasoine either. I'm sure they'll still make there normal carbs for gas.

Obviously if you don't have E-85 in the area, they you wouldn't be in the market for an E-85 carb...

Tom Welch
11-20-2006, 06:14 PM
Well, after reading the postings on this I am still sceptical about the longterm use/benefit of e-85. It does indeed have good and bad qualities. I believe that the main reason the automotive manufacturers are building e-85 capable vehicles is to legally advertise increased fuel mileage figures. If one reads the federal guidelines on this subject, he will note that the feds have been sucessfully lobbied to allow inflated mileage ratings as a way to sell more vehicles, thus lowering development costs. I aint too far offbase with this since government reports back up what I submit here. I would like to see how e-85 compares dollar for dollar to gasoline. I think the results would turn many away from e-85 simply due to increased fuel consumption/cost. I was hoping that hydrogen would have been given the same support as alcohol based fuels. But thats my opinion. I hope as do all of us on this board that e-85 or another alternative can be developed cheaply enough to replace gasoline. But, I think that Exxon and the like have probably done this already and have patented formulas and processes that will keep them more or less in a dominant position in the fuel comodity markets. This makes for a good debate.

PhillipM
11-20-2006, 09:23 PM
Maybe we could also start growing something again on those millions of acres that the government is paying farmers to not farm.
:usa:

LowBuckX
11-20-2006, 09:45 PM
If you really wanted to you can make your own e-85. There are stil plans all over the net and you can get a permit from the ATF to make it for fuel.
I think the latest stil design can let you make 5 gallons an hour of 200 proof ,

ron79
11-21-2006, 02:46 AM
i am going to use e-85 in my pro-touring1979 nova, will have 4 speed, and the edelbrock e-85 carb, and i have read where wal-marts gas stations are work on a deal to sale e-85,