wideband A/F, which one?

[whytry]

From everything I can tell, getting my hands on a good wideband O2, would be a good investment. I have been searching around and I have a couple of questions, for all, is you own one or have used one, but just just for tuning and then plugged the bung....

Do you always have a gauge hooked up, or just when you tune it, ie the Innovate LM-1? disconnect and plug the O2 bung when done. Or did you run the full kit LC-1 and XP16 (I think that's right) their hard wire kit and gauge.

Or could I run something like the Autometer gauge with sweep for A/F ratio and their wideband O2 sensor? I know this will not tell me the number like the Innovate kit, but I want to get some ideas.

From what I can tell the Innovate setup looks to be complete for $400, or portable for $350 (but this setup I can't always be monitoring the A/F of my setup. Thoughts or suggestions?

[ProdigyCustoms]

I just got the FAST 170402 dual wide band for the street racer. I will never pull another plug! For nitrous or blower tuning, it is the snizitz. I love it because it monitors both banks. You would be stunned on carb cars the difference from one side to the other. If you want one let me know, I can hook you up.

[Blown353]

Neato. I've heard the new FAST WB02 box was a nice piece.

I've used a couple Innovate setups in the past and was pretty happy with them too, although the response time of the Innovate was definately slower than the MoTeC WB02 that the last chassis dyno shop I went to used-- understandable being there's about a $3700 price difference between the two setups.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I think the FAST is pretty fast. I use it for nitrous tuning and can see the A/F change instanly when I hit the switch. I have never used a A/F meter before for this set up. Always did it by running it till it was near danger, then fatten up. never hurt anything, but this way I feel I never will. At least not from A/F anyway. And it damn sure is easier to play back a run on the box them it is to pull hot spark plugs at the end of the track!

[whytry]

Hey Frank what does one of those setups from FAST run? Is it complete? Do I need to get anything else? Gauge maybe?

[J2speedandcustom]

Don't get the innovative piece of junk...

I prefer the FJO units myself. The Fast is a close second but haven't used the new box.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We have great deals on all FAST stuff. E mail me or PM

[John Monnin]

I know a lot of people using innovative widebands and nobody has had a problem with them, what has your experience with them been? I like the innovate because it because it has a linear output, the Techedge, AEM and Zetronic have non-linear outputs (as default setting) that requires a conversion chart if you datalog the output voltage.

[J2speedandcustom]

I know a lot of people using innovative widebands and nobody has had a problem with them, what has your experience with them been? I like the innovate because it because it has a linear output, the Techedge, AEM and Zetronic have no-linear outputs (as default setting) that requires a conversion chart if you datalog the output voltage.

I should of rephrased that a little better. It's the Bosch sensor that isn't that great. The NTK sensor on the FJO is superior in my opinion.

[andrewb70]

I like the FJO units myself. The offer both a single and dual sensor controller. The great feature about them is that they allow you to use either the Bosch or the NTK sensor.

Andrew

[Turbo Hen]

Hope you guys know the FAST o2 sensors themselves are a LOT OF $$$$$$$$$$ if they fail......

-Carm

[andrewb70]

Hope you guys know the FAST o2 sensors themselves are a LOT OF $$$$$$$$$$ if they fail......

-Carm

Why? The FAST controller uses the Bosch LSU 4 sensor. It should only be about 50 bucks. 60 tops....

Andrew

[Turbo Hen]

Ok my bad.....im thinking they were using the same 02's that came with the DFI they sell (FAST systems)

Those are $400 + to replace.

I guess they're not the same....my bad

[andrewb70]

Ok my bad.....im thinking they were using the same 02's that came with the DFI they sell (FAST systems)

Those are $400 + to replace.

I guess they're not the same....my bad

I am pretty sure that the DFI VII uses the NTK sensor. Even if that is the case, I don't see how they can charge that kind of money for it. FJO sells the NTK sensors for under $200.

Andrew

[Turbo Hen]

They do.....i hang out on the TurboMustangs msg board & those guys are paying out thier @$$ for replacement sensors on FAST DFI systems

Apparantly FAST uses a different plug with 2 extra pins in them that is required to function properly. The replacements are over $400

I use a carb......so i could care less lol

-Carm

[andrewb70]

They do.....i hang out on the TurboMustangs msg board & those guys are paying out thier @$$ for replacement sensors on FAST DFI systems

Apparantly FAST uses a different plug with 2 extra pins in them that is required to function properly. The replacements are over $400

I use a carb......so i could care less lol

-Carm

Are you talking about F.A.S.T., as in owned by Comp Camps? Or are you talking about the Accel DFI VII, as in owned by Mr. Gasket?

Andrew

[Turbo Hen]

im assuming the F.A.S.T. fuel injection system.....not sure who its made by

[camcojb]

I've never lost a FAST wideband O2 in several years of use. That includes running leaded race gas through them.

Jody

[andrewb70]

im assuming the F.A.S.T. fuel injection system.....not sure who its made by

When you making definitive statements about a particular products cost or worth, don't you think it would be a good idea to know exactly what product you are talking about?

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I've never lost a FAST wideband O2 in several years of use. That includes running leaded race gas through them.

Jody

Jody,

I don't doubt that at all. The early FAST and the current FAST XFI system uses the NTK sensor that is very robust. The second post of this discussion mentioned the new FAST dual wideband controller. That unit for sure uses the Bosch LSU4 sensors. I know this because at last years SEMA show I talked ot the product manager. The use of the Bosch sensor is to reduce cost. There is nothing wrong with that.

Andrew

[FJB2069]

IF you like the FAST unit you may want to take a look at Altronics O2ALERT. www.altronicsinc.com (http://www.altronicsinc.com)

Has dual wideband capability along with RPM, EGT, and additional inputs for Fuel, Boost , Nos, TP etc.

Built in warning output allows for Lean Out notification and can used to control timing, retard, boost, etc.

Samples at 100 Sample/Sec, about 10 times faster then FAST.

Allows for complete playback on unit or download to PC.

[Turbo Hen]

When you making definitive statements about a particular products cost or worth, don't you think it would be a good idea to know exactly what product you are talking about?

Andrew

What is this....are you trying to bash me or make me out to be someone who doesnt know what they're talking about?

I've been around this game a few years, and was trying to share what I've heard from other on the FAST EFI systems...my intent was to help.

I corrected myself in the post above.

Don't try & make yourself look like a hero.

-Carm

[andrewb70]

What is this....are you trying to bash me or make me out to be someone who doesnt know what they're talking about?

I've been around this game a few years, and was trying to share what I've heard from other on the FAST EFI systems...my intent was to help.

I corrected myself in the post above.

Don't try & make yourself look like a hero.

-Carm

I am not bashing, nor do I care to be a hero. I do care that accurate information is presented when possible. Your posts sounded vague at best so I was trying to get a clarification. Nothing more, nothing less.

Have a great day.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Accel DFI VII wideband (NTK) sensor only at Summit:

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=acc-77065&x=0&y=0&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=700+115

$520 OUCH!

FAST wideband (NTK) sensor only to use with the XFI:

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FS&Product_Code=307000&Category_Code=

$395 not bad, probably less through a dealer.

FAST replacement wideband (Bosch) sensor to use with the new dual controller:

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FS&Category_Code=AFCOMP

$120 much less money, probably less through a dealer.

No heroism, just trying to make sure the information on the forum is factual and not based on hearsay.

Andrew

[Turbo Hen]

Alright, sounds good. I took it the wrong way.

-Carm

[andrewb70]

Alright, sounds good. I took it the wrong way.

-Carm

No worries...

Andrew

[OHCbird]

I have the Innovative LSU 4 on my supercharged 93 4 Runner, and have had zero probs with it. The XD-16 kit is easy to use. I haven't experienced many sensor failures due solely to the sensor itself; most come from contaminents (leaded gas, water, sealants- you name it), or heat-kills on turbo's that come from a lack of a heat sink when the sensor is too close to the turbine housing, or just plain can't shed the heat quick enough.

Proper care + smart install usually leads to long sensor life.

[andrewb70]

I have the Innovative LSU 4 on my supercharged 93 4 Runner, and have had zero probs with it. The XD-16 kit is easy to use. I haven't experienced many sensor failures due solely to the sensor itself; most come from contaminents (leaded gas, water, sealants- you name it), or heat-kills on turbo's that come from a lack of a heat sink when the sensor is too close to the turbine housing, or just plain can't shed the heat quick enough.

Proper care + smart install usually leads to long sensor life.

Well said and agreed!

Andrew

[Y-TRY]

If you want to spend less money and just keep an eye on your A/F I really like the AEM UEGO guage. The carb doesn't give you enough tune-on-the-fly anyway. Great gauge to use to set it up and leave it. Using this gauge while also reading on the dyno and it is super consistent and within .01 of what the dyno reads.

Under $300 on ebay.

[OHCbird]

Accel now has a dual wideband controller that can use the Bosch or NTK sensors. I believe it comes as a single kit (with data-logging capability) for $399 retail. I'm sure you can find it cheaper if you're crafty. Best part- It has the best resolution & response time of all the controllers.

[kmcanally]

On a single sensor system would it be ideal to install in the X-pipe junction?

[OHCbird]

Yes- it would get a maximized sampling of all your exhaust pulses. This would improved signal 'averaging' to your controller. Not optimum, but the best in that situation.