65 mustang front suspension

[65MRR]

Alright this is for all the suspension techs out there. If you were going to replace the stock mustang front end with a new front end what components would you choose. Setting price aside, would you upgrade the front with just a good control arm coil-over setup or would go with a totally new front subframe and new everything, again if price was not an option

[steemin]

I am Subscribing to this thread as I am also considering upgrading my front suspension components..
Scott

[4MuscleMachines]

I would (and have several times) just replace the suspension components without buying a new subframe. There are many good choices out there from several reputable companies. Unless I was installing a heavy mod motor or big block where you need to trim or remove the shock towers, then I would need to replace the front sub.

[absolom]

we've done a heidt's mustang II conversion, but we haven't driven the car yet

:)

[65MRR]

Yeah i have replaced the entire front end of my car already with a complete pst kit with the polygraphite bushings, i even replaced the control arms and strut rods, and put a 1 1/8" swaybar on it. it just doesn't live up to my expectations of what i would like it to do. The over steer is crazy, and it darts all over the road, and i can never get the front end to stay aligned anyways. I think i am going to keep the leaf springs in the rear, just put drop springs, and use adjustable shocks with a watts link. But i am at a loss as far as the front end, i wouldn't mind removing the shock towers for a little extra room and i dont mind doing the labor at all eather, i just want the car to handle better, a lot better.

[vintageracer]

Look to folks who vintage race these cars for ideas concerning upgrading a stock front suspension with bolt on components. Try Ron Bramletts Mustang Plus out of Stockton California or Kurt Vogt's Cobra Automotive out of Connecticut. Their products work well at speed but may be a compromise for the street.

For all out modern suspension upgrades there is the Mustang II based front suspensions such as Heidts, Chris Alston's Total Control, Brent Vandervort with Fatmans in Charlotte NC and others. All 3 of these have taken a different method of upgrading the Mustang front suspension. There are others out there also with other upgrade ideas and/or different interpretations of similiar engineering upgrades.

Besides, what's wrong with a little oversteer. Loose is fast! That's how you drive Mustangs on the race track. The steering wheel turned and the rearend hung out! If you ever get a chance to watch the old races with Mustangs and Cobras, you will see why they were the original "Drifters"!!!!!

All the upgrades packages are good, just ask the person who is selling them. Most front suspension upgrades available today are big compromises either due to packaging/mounting or trying to adapt "street rod" front suspension to a performance car. Since price is NOT a consideration, I would do a lot of web surfing on the Mustang sites for information. I would first and foremost make a decision as to the main purpose/use of my car. A car on rails that rides like a log wagon my not meet you needs. Choose your supplier carefully based upon YOUR needs, not the ultimate corning G's the suspension package will provide. It is now very easy to spend $10K on your front and rear suspension in a Mustang if price is no object!

I see quite a few of the current builders using the Total Control front suspension package. This replaces all the control arms, give you coilovers and R&P steering. I have not looked at the suspension geometry but it does look cool. On the other side, there are a lot of upgrades that do not look cool but work fabulous. The Guldstrand mod on Camaro comes to mind.

Let your wallet and fabrication skills be your guide!

[novanutcase]

Not a mustang man myself but I have 2 suggestion for what its worth. You may want to look up a guy named Alcino. I think he is on this site but if not go check at lateral-g. Supposedly he has done wonders with his MII suspension and has not done a full clip replacement. Secondly, have you looked into Airide Technologies? I know, I was in the same mindset as you were! Airbags?!?? but I want performance. Check the Pigeon Forge run numbers and you will see Airride cars running in the top three in Autocross. I was a firm believer that "Bags were for Fags" but they have made a believer out of me! Best part is that they have a system that gives you 3 presets. Example: Show- In the weeds, Everyday driving - just enough to make u-turns and not hear any thumps over bumps, Track - Set it up firm enough to have to go to the bathroom every 10 minutes. All this at the touch of a button! Brilliant! I love technology!:drive2:

[novanutcase]

Look to folks who vintage race these cars for ideas concerning upgrading a stock front suspension with bolt on components. Try Ron Bramletts Mustang Plus out of Stockton California or Kurt Vogt's Cobra Automotive out of Connecticut. Their products work well at speed but may be a compromise for the street.

For all out modern suspension upgrades there is the Mustang II based front suspensions such as Heidts, Chris Alston's Total Control, Brent Vandervort with Fatmans in Charlotte NC and others. All 3 of these have taken a different method of upgrading the Mustang front suspension. There are others out there also with other upgrade ideas and/or different interpretations of similiar engineering upgrades.

Besides, what's wrong with a little oversteer. Loose is fast! That's how you drive Mustangs on the race track. The steering wheel turned and the rearend hung out! If you ever get a chance to watch the old races with Mustangs and Cobras, you will see why they were the original "Drifters"!!!!!

All the upgrades packages are good, just ask the person who is selling them. Most front suspension upgrades available today are big compromises either due to packaging/mounting or trying to adapt "street rod" front suspension to a performance car. Since price is NOT a consideration, I would do a lot of web surfing on the Mustang sites for information. I would first and foremost make a decision as to the main purpose/use of my car. A car on rails that rides like a log wagon my not meet you needs. Choose your supplier carefully based upon YOUR needs, not the ultimate corning G's the suspension package will provide. It is now very easy to spend $10K on your front and rear suspension in a Mustang if price is no object!

I see quite a few of the current builders using the Total Control front suspension package. This replaces all the control arms, give you coilovers and R&P steering. I have not looked at the suspension geometry but it does look cool. On the other side, there are a lot of upgrades that do not look cool but work fabulous. The Guldstrand mod on Camaro comes to mind.

Let your wallet and fabrication skills be your guide!

Listen to the man! He speaks gospel!:headbang:

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Total Control Products uppers/ lowers / strut rods / Ringbrothers tower braces and a set of double adjustable Shockwaves....

[65MRR]

So say that i wanted to increase the track width on the front end of my mustang, where would be the best place to start? Should i got with a crossmember kit that is designed for a mustang II setup and just do the longer uca and lca as alcino was talking about..then wait on the new spindle from ATS to come out, or is there a better way to go about it?

[alcino]

Why do you want to increase track width? My suggestion would be to get all new bushings and ball joints. Make sure everything is tight(no worn sloppy joints in steering or suspension), do the Shelby Mod if you want to corner better, and get a perfomance alignment done by someone who knows what they are doing. The car will drive great on the road. If you want to drive great on the track add some DOT race tires to the combo. The money saved over an expensive suspension could be used for a few trackdays where you will see that driving technique and good tires can go a long way at being fast. During this time of trackdays, try to talk to people who have similar cars that have the suspensions that you want. How much faster are they than you? Is because of the suspension or just extra power they have in the straights(or other factors like tires or braking ability). Then decide if the money for the suspension is worth the fraction of a second. I found that its not in my case. I'm just suffering from lack of power.

[novanutcase]

Why do you want to increase track width? My suggestion would be to get all new bushings and ball joints. Make sure everything is tight(no worn sloppy joints in steering or suspension), do the Shelby Mod if you want to corner better, and get a perfomance alignment done by someone who knows what they are doing. The car will drive great on the road. If you want to drive great on the track add some DOT race tires to the combo. The money saved over an expensive suspension could be used for a few trackdays where you will see that driving technique and good tires can go a long way at being fast. During this time of trackdays, try to talk to people who have similar cars that have the suspensions that you want. How much faster are they than you? Is because of the suspension or just extra power they have in the straights(or other factors like tires or braking ability). Then decide if the money for the suspension is worth the fraction of a second. I found that its not in my case. I'm just suffering from lack of power.

YES!^^^^

[Blown353]

My vote is for TCP based on experience... if you can afford the hefty pricetag. I also have some experience with the Global West stuff, and while it's also no slouch in the handling department track experience says the TCP stuff edges it out a bit.

Was running ~2-minute lap times using the full TCP package at Thunderhill on Saturday in a 'Stang with mildly flared fenders and 275/315 hoosiers, using D/A Varishocks. This car was/is the TCP test mule prior to them going under and being bought up by Alston, who has only improved the production quality side of the TCP products through better controlled processes.

The controllability of the car was amazing-- you just pointed and throttled where you wanted it to go and it did so in a totally neutral 4-wheel drift. Simply awesome. Never once did the chassis feel out of control until we hit some stuff on the surface in turn one at about 130, got into a bit of a tank slapper but we reeled it in. This same car was also posting the fastest lap times in its class by just over a second at the SCCA Vintage races at Laguna Seca about a month ago.

It's this car by the way, but much has been changed since the website was done: http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/vehicles/tcpracecar/main.html

However what Al said is very valid-- my firsthand experience with a well-dialed in TCP setup is that the limits are quite high-- well beyond what a novice driver will be able to use all of. However, if you have the money to spend you can spend it knowing you're getting a damn fine working package.

[65MRR]

Thanks for the reply Al, I have already replaced the entire front end of the car, sans the steering box, with a complete poly-graphite kit, and you are right the difference was pretty amazing. I have not done the shelby mod yet, though i have heard so many good things about it, I have been thinking about it quite a bit, i was just looking into all my options, I have had the aligntment specs set the same as the ones in an old shelby book that my father had. Im not sure just what the specs are now though.
Blown- thanks for your input on the TCP stuff, i have always like the way that their products looks, i just was never sure if the performance was worth the price, but obvisously it is in your opinion so maybe ill have to take another look. I have been talking to Louie over at G-machine and hopefully after this weekend ill have some pics and some info on how theyre new suspension handled at the track. It looks very interesting to me.

[Lowend]

I've been very impressed with TCP's stuff. A goody buddy of mine designed this rack & pinion stuff years ago.

I'm suprised that they haven't popped up here yet, but Global West makes some awesome stuff for the early Mustang. I have used their stuff on several early mustang builds and the cars are amazing afterwards.
http://globalwest.net/mustang_1964%20-73%20catalog.htm

[Blown353]

I'm suprised that they haven't popped up here yet, but Global West makes some awesome stuff for the early Mustang. I have used their stuff on several early mustang builds and the cars are amazing afterwards.
http://globalwest.net/mustang_1964%20-73%20catalog.htm

I 100% agree as I mentioned above. The GW stuff for the 'Stangs is great, no doubt. My experience has been that it's not quite as good as the TCP stuff, but we're splitting hairs at this point. Both will get around a track very quickly and predictably. But given the price difference you can buy quite a few sets of Hoosiers and track days if you buy the GW stuff instead of the TCP stuff-- and the GW stuff is still great!

The Griggs stuff is supposed to be good stuff too, and since it doesn't try and use all the stock pickup points like the TCP setup it is subjected to less compromises being a more "clean sheet" design... but I don't have any personal experience with it.

This is an older thread on C-C about the TCP stuff. Lots of pissing matches going on but some damn good tech (just another ordinary C-C thread!): http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=2336&pp=40

[Lowend]

Oh another good resource
http://www.maierracing.com/

Mikey is one of the foremost Auto-Xers in the country and he is the main supplier for Frank Stagnero who has been running a CP Mustang since the birth of Christ

[Lowend]

Stag's car
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Blown353]

Duh... forgot about Maier. I even have them making some fiberglass bits for me right now (67 GT500 hood louvers)


Oh another good resource
http://www.maierracing.com/

Mikey is one of the foremost Auto-Xers in the country and he is the main supplier for Frank Stagnero who has been running a CP Mustang since the birth of Christ

[65MRR]

OMG i love that car...how big are those flares? i want to flare the fenders on mine..i think it makes them look more agressinve when they are sitting low and flared, i just dont know how big i want to go with the flares yet...Anyone know any other mustang with flared fenders as a reference?

[Lowend]

Maier sells all the flare kits and such.
I believe the tire is 12.5x25x16" as that is the CP class' most popular tire

[bret]

For what it's worth...my 69 has a complete TCP control arm/strut rod/power rack system with double adjustable ShockWaves in hte front. I also did the "Shelby" modification, lowering the upper controil arm pivot point by approx. 3/4". to improve the camber curve during suspension compression. I align the car with 1.5 degrees of neg. camber, 3-4 degrees of caster, and about 1/16" of toe in.
I have an AirBar bolt-in 4 link with double adjustable ShockWaves in the rear.
The car corners well enough to pick up the left front tire approx. 6" in a tight autocross turn.