Paddle Shift Trans? [Archive]

aramp1

11-14-2004, 01:09 PM

I've been seeing a lot about the stearing wheel shift or paddle shift transmissions. A few years ago when I saw them come out on the Ferraris, I wondered who the heck would opt for that. I got to catch a few laps of the US Grand Prix a while back with some in car camera shots and I saw how cool it was to keep the hands on the wheel and shift. I then read in PHR about that guy who built that red 71 Road Runner and put a paddle shifter to control the CO2 to shift his auto trans. Then the other day I finally got to drive a friend's GP with the stearing wheel shifter. It was pretty cool, but it was still an automatic with sort of a semi-manual valve body.

All this had got me thinking (and I'm just throwing out the idea here) about maybe a Lenco with some kind of paddle shifter. It would be an actual manual trans, not the auto. I think it would be pretty bada$$, but it would take a lot of thinking to get it to work right. Any ideas?

ARAMP1

pushrod243

11-15-2004, 06:32 PM

This is a very interesting subject. I would love to find a way to paddle shift a manaul since my left arm is paralyzed. All i have found so far is shifters for automatics. check out the links below

http://www.supercarsllc.com/
http://www.lateral-g.net/shrifter/

If i found a way to shift a 6 speed id put on in my car in a minute. Realistically though most of the tiptronic trannys are autos. The Porsche Tip. Is a very nice tranny it shifts quick and very positive. Downshifts like a stick fun to drive. They have a Tiptronic trans in their Cayenne which has a turbo v8 but i dont know what kinda power it will handle. Then you would hafta adapt it to a chevy and find a computer to control it. Quite a project.

The Lenco idea is out there too since Lencos arent very street friendly. Definetly not going to like a hard downshift to throw it into a corner. They do offer convertor type drives for lencos and various shifters including electric over air which could be shifted by a paddle or button. But not the greatest solotion.

Maybe we need to Hi jack a Ferrari mechanic but hell i already know i cant afford those parts.

Anybody else got any ideas?

TurboLark

11-15-2004, 07:55 PM

pushrod243

11-15-2004, 09:18 PM

Cool let me know what you think after contacting them. I saw Supercars at SEMA but the guy in the booth wasnt very knowledgable about it. I intended to go back and talk to someone else ther but time got away from me and I never got back there. The th400 unit somehow shifts the car by moving the shift linkage. I think the other company's "Shrifter" is electronic but not sure it only lists 4l80e and 4l60e which are shifted by solenoids internally.

The cool thing about the car in Supercar's booth it didnt have any other shifter besides the paddles. Scary if it failed but definitely neat otherwise.

kball

11-15-2004, 09:53 PM

I'm a tech at bmw and have quite a bit of knowledge of these systems. M3's have had smg trans for afew years and it is now available in z4's ,6 series and the new M5 will have a 507hp@7750 v-10 w/an smg 7spd. A lot of people knock sequential trans., but when you get used to driving it you can't beat it. Perfect upshifts everytime, rpm matched downshifts, a hill hold feature for accelerating from a stop on a hill w/out rollback. It's a pretty sweet setup.

Foudie

11-16-2004, 02:42 PM

I remember years ago, like perhaps in the late 80's I saw an article in Hot Rod magazine about a company that makes a kit to mate a bellhousing and clutch assembly to an automatic transmission such as a TH400. The basic idea was that it gave you an unlimited stahl speed while maintaining the consistency of the automatic. I think the company was called Fairlane Products, or Fairbanks maybe. It was a long time ago I cant remember. But that somewhat seems like a more "street friendly" Lenco.

Brad

Fuelie Fan

11-16-2004, 04:35 PM

Does the shrifter have a linear actuator on the transmission?

Yet another idea I've had mapped out in my head for years but never had the means to complete...

TurboLark

11-16-2004, 04:43 PM

Does the shrifter have a linear actuator on the transmission?

Yet another idea I've had mapped out in my head for years but never had the means to complete...
The "Shriter" seems to tie nto the computer control of the trans to tell it when to shift. The Supercars one looks to use a linear actuator.

I remember years ago, like perhaps in the late 80's I saw an article in Hot Rod magazine about a company that makes a kit to mate a bellhousing and clutch assembly to an automatic transmission such as a TH400. The basic idea was that it gave you an unlimited stahl speed while maintaining the consistency of the automatic. I think the company was called Fairlane Products, or Fairbanks maybe. It was a long time ago I cant remember. But that somewhat seems like a more "street friendly" Lenco.
Fairbanks. Called the chevy ones Hydra-stick, and the dodge stuff was Clutch-flite. I have heard they shift so hard your fillings will fall out(no cushion from the convertor.

aramp1

11-16-2004, 04:49 PM

Hey KBALL,
One of those M5 seven speeds would do nicely!!! :seizure:

ARAMP1

JMarsa

11-17-2004, 08:26 AM

Fuelie Fan - Same here...I'm glad someone is working on it at least.

So what's the deal with the shrifter? I checked out the video, I read this post over at later-g: http://www.lateral-g.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=379

It seems that "XcYZ" (Scott) is the guy to talk to. Is it not ready yet? When? About how much? Seems too little info for such a cool product.

--JMarsa

Fuelie Fan

11-17-2004, 09:08 AM

I wish I knew more about the shrifter myself. The video wasn't very informative. I'd like to hear from one the shrifter inventors how it controls the shifts. SOMETHING had to put the thing in park! Can't do that through wires...

TitoJones

11-17-2004, 07:16 PM

Guys-

The ShRiFter is a paddle shifting controller that works with T-Com software, (available from TCI) allowing you to effectively shift up and down on your 4L60/80E trans.
There is still a shifter to go from Park to Reverse, then to Neutral, and into Drive, but has the added function of 'manual' mode. Hit a switch, and start shifting up and down via the paddle shifter behind the steering wheel.

The pricing is in the Mid $500 range (not 100% sure on final numbers).
If you have any questions, feel free to ask myself, or Steevo (Streetfytr68)
Tyler

Steve Chryssos

11-18-2004, 06:54 AM

Hi guys,
The Shrifter is manufactured by my company Twist Machine, LLC. It will be commercially available on January 1st. Pricing will be $519 machined or $579 fully polished. It consists of a billet aluminum paddle shifter assembly and electronics that plug directly into any TCI T-Com controller. T-Com controllers are available for 4l60E and 4L80E transmissions. A new controller is being released for AOD-E Ford transmissions.
The common link here is that these are all electronically controlled units. This is significant in that true manu-matic function requires a computerized transmission to properly control shift firmness and line pressure. Without computer control, shifts could be uncontrollably hard or ill-timed (i.e. late) depending on rpm and gear. If you have manually downshifted a TH350 or 400 at the wrong speed, you know what I mean.
For safety reasons, a mechanical shifter is required for park, reverse and neutral. That way, you cannot accidentally paddle shift into park at speed. Are there other possible safety measures? Sure. But none are as secure as simply excluding P, R, N. There is no linear actuator or CO2 bottle. Therefore there is no possibility of these parts jamming or failing. The Shrifter is 100% electronic.

So the Shrifter is an interface device. The equivalent of a mouse and keyboard on you home computer. The real beauty of Manu-matic function lies in the tuning of the T-Com software. Shift firmness and line pressure can be adjusted to best emulate a manual transmission. You simply cannot tune a non-electronic transmission in that way. Many other features exist in the T-Com software. For example, T-Com will automatically put the trans in 1st gear when you come to a complete stop. No need to downshift at every stoplight. Which means there is no chance of burning up your trans by leaving in high gear (which is a common problem with manual valve body transmissions.)

Information has been limited because the lawyers prevented me from releasing news due to the patent process. Now that that is out of the way, I will be happy to answer any of your questions. Feel free to PM or email me.
Attached is a teaser pic of the pre-production sample that we took to SEMA. Steering wheels are slod separately. Models exist for 9 bolt (most billet wheels) as well as 5 bolt and six bolt wheels) Special thanks to Tyler from ATS for helping me out at the show. He will be Twist Machine's first dealer for the Shrifter.
Thanks for your interest

JMarsa

11-18-2004, 07:30 AM

Steve,

The product looks great, it looks like you guys will have will be getting a ton of attention in the near future. Here's my questions:

1. Are the paddles and the enclosure all metal?

2. Does the shrifter mount to the back of the steering wheel or does the steering wheel mount to the shrifter (is the shrifter a hub for the wheel)? If so, what mount pattern are available?

3. Relating to the previous question, does the shrifter stay stationary as the wheel rotates or does it rotate with the wheel?

4. What diameter steering wheels work best?

5. How much external wiring (# of wires & gauge) is there? Is it routed on the outside of the steering column?

6. A physical shifter is required, which one is considered the master controller to the T-Com? Meaning if the shrifter fails, will the physical shifter still be fully functional?

7. Is there an on/off switch on the unit to disable the shrifter?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Chryssos

11-18-2004, 08:03 AM

Woops! I edited my post w/o reading yours first so some of your steering wheel questions are now answered in my original post/

[QUOTE=JMarsa]

1. Are the paddles and the enclosure all metal?
Yes Hub and paddles are CNC machined from 356-T6

2. Does the shrifter mount to the back of the steering wheel or does the steering wheel mount to the shrifter (is the shrifter a hub for the wheel)? If so, what mount pattern are available?
Yes, the Shrifter is a replacement hub. Remove your steering wheel and replace your aftermarket hub with the Shrifter. Mounting patterns are 67-94 GM, Flaming River and Ididit on the column side and 5 bolt (Grant), 6 bolt (Momo, Sparco) and 9 bolt (LeCarra, Budnik, etc) on the steering wheel side. Hub depth and steering wheel offset have been taken into consideration.

3. Relating to the previous question, does the shrifter stay stationary as the wheel rotates or does it rotate with the wheel?
The Shrifter rotates with the steering wheel.

4. What diameter steering wheels work best?
14" diameter (330mm)

5. How much external wiring (# of wires & gauge) is there? Is it routed on the outside of the steering column?
For safety reasons and for ease of installation, there is no wiring to be done on the column at all. Works on proprietary RF. The reciver plugs into the T-Com harness and you supply 12V and ground. All wiring is included.

6. A physical shifter is required, which one is considered the master controller to the T-Com? Meaning if the shrifter fails, will the physical shifter still be fully functional?
I guess 6 & 7 get answered together. The floor shifter is the master controller. It is mechanically connected to the shift arm. A rocker switch is provided so that at any time you can switch between manual and automatic. Works on the fly too. So if for any reason the Shrifter were to stop working you simply switch back to full automatic through the separate, isolated switch.

7. Is there an on/off switch on the unit to disable the shrifter?

Jagarang

11-18-2004, 08:19 AM

:sad4: :sad4: I just makes me sick that I don't have 4000-5000 dollars for a 4L60E/4L80E!!!! I hate my life!

Steve Chryssos

11-18-2004, 08:31 AM

Kevin,
How much torque do you expect out of your 455? You can pick up a 4L60 out of the junkyard. You do not need to get a transmission from TCI. Any 4L60 will do. A 4L80e can be run stock but you have to make room for it (trans tunnel). It's a monster--basically a TH400 with a fourth gear.
From there, the TCI controller is about $600 street price. So if you consider that you have to buy a transmission and steering wheel anyway, a paddle shifted manumatic is a $1200 proposition. Unless you already have a transmisson, it's a fairly reasonable expense considering the results.

I'm sorry that sounds like a salespitch. But I just want to make sure that folks understand the comparison. Hey, I'm just a hot rodder who ended up in the paddle shifter business because it had to be done.

Jagarang

11-18-2004, 08:39 AM

You've got PM STEVE I'm also in the live chat room now if you read this!!

My kindom for the ability to page members who are currently logged in!!! :hammer: :banghead:

Fuelie Fan

11-18-2004, 09:47 AM

The price is certainly fair. I think I'm going to end up doing the electronic controls differently, since I don't have to be responsible for the safety of others, just myself. Do you sell just the mechanical paddle setup?

Steve Chryssos

11-18-2004, 10:14 AM

Fuelie,
I don't see why not. I'll email you.
/Steve

aramp1

11-18-2004, 12:34 PM

I'll admit, this is all bada$$, but it's still an automatic :sleeping:

Steve Chryssos

11-18-2004, 01:16 PM

Yeah, I know. Nothing can replace rowing gears. But manu-matics definitely fit into the "Don't knock it til ya try it" category.

An adaptable paddle shifted manual transmission system is not impossible, but it will be difficult to produce for a universal application. The robotics aren't the problem. It's the computer logic. The right algorithm for one application might result in a blown engine when installed behind a different application. So I think that in the future, paddle shifted manuals will be sold as complete drivetrains or with disclaimers stating that system must be installed behind such and such specific engine parameters. There would be some programming options to suit different vehicles (i.e. final gear ratio, tire dia, etc).
Hey people complain about the functionality of the Magnetti-Marelli's system in their six figure Ferraris. It seems the automatic mode in particular has it's share of bugs and quirks.

In the mean time there are some clear benefits to the manu-matic. Like you can tell it what mph to prevent accidental downshifts. (i.e. no downshifts into 1st gear above 30mph). You can do that for all three primary gears. Another benefit is the ability to adjust shift firmness. The hardest thing to get over is that not every shift needs to be set on kill. Originally I thought I needed to be Michael Shumacher--All shifts were set up to be lightening fast regardless of throttle position or rpm. Turns out that you want to slow down the shifts to "slip the clutch" during most part throttle gear changes. Regardless, the ability to tune these and other parameters is pretty cool. And it's easy as pie.

And of course, there are always times when you just want to switch over to automatic mode. I would never want a manual transmission for the Woodward Dream Cruise.