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JonB69FB
11-13-2004, 01:00 AM
Even though my day was nothing but trouble, I had a good time at Streets of Willow, and enjoyed meeting both CarlC and Salt Racer from this board. Both of their cars are absolutely awesome.

Video from my car:
http://www.firebirdofdoom.com/video/Road%20Racing/sows111204-1.wmv
http://www.firebirdofdoom.com/video/Road%20Racing/sows111204-2.wmv

A few pictures:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

There's another 834 pictures at:

http://www.firebirdofdoom.com/photos/Speed Ventures at Streets of Willow/

68protouring454
11-13-2004, 03:42 AM
jon, looks like an awesome day, i bet it was a blast
jake

Andrew McBride
11-13-2004, 06:55 AM
man I love Carl's 68 camaro. That car right there is the reason I bought my 68. Traditional body style of a first gen with a little PT additions. Looks like a great time to run the track. Maybe my next project for a track car: 67 RS Camaro

Andrew

MrQuick
11-13-2004, 08:44 AM
great shots thank you....I would love to make one of these events. I was hoping to make it this year but it was a toss up between this and SEMA. Vegas won.
KATZ WHERES YOUR HELMET????

CarlC
11-13-2004, 10:32 AM
Thanks for the pics Jon. The PS is a classic GM P-pump problem when using the integral reservoir. Going to the Lee's dry pump, remote cooler, and remote reservoir fixed it for me. There's info on my website.

Katz's car pegs the Cool meter. The pic above is on the skidpad where helmet requirements were either not needed or enforced. He was getting into the spirit of things by spending a bunch of time tuning his panhard bar. It was easy to tell when Katz was coming onto the straight. Since the Speed Venture events are dominated by imports, they have a distinct sound, as does Katz's:

Buzzzzzzzzzz.....
Buzzzzzzzzzz.....
BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Thanks Andrew!

Session 4 was the best for me turning a 1:35. As the car gets lighter in the rear it handles better and better. It takes 3-3.5 gallons for each session so after four sessions it's time for gas. I did not stay for the last session since there was a strange sound coming from the front that sounded like a bearing going bad. It's fine, but better safe than sorry with a 80 mile drive home.

It was great to meet you guys. Let's do it again soon.

JonB69FB
11-13-2004, 11:59 AM
Thanks for the pics Jon. The PS is a classic GM P-pump problem when using the integral reservoir. Going to the Lee's dry pump, remote cooler, and remote reservoir fixed it for me. There's info on my website.

I'll be ordering a setup exactly like yours early this week. And I just can't express how impressed I am with your car. It's gorgeous and FAST (not that it doesn't take some excellent driving to turn laps like those).

Once the Speed Ventures guys post the overall times you'll be able to see exactly where you stand but I'd say you're probably in the top 10 for overall time, competing against race-stripped, winged S2000's on slicks and guys that have a lot more time on that track than you do. My best lap time was a 1:39 so you're a ton faster than me. :hammer:

I'll probably pull the intake manifold off next weekend to see if I can figure out where the oil is getting into the combustion chambers on the driver's side. In addition to the open headbolt hole from porting I remembered this morning that several of the rocker shaft bolt holes are open to intake ports, so hopefully it's just drawing some oil in through one of the many holes when I jump off the throttle during shifts.

Ralph LoGrasso
11-13-2004, 01:55 PM
Sweet pics, thanks! That looks like an awesome event.

Fawkes
11-14-2004, 11:03 AM
Very cool. The second video was a nice change from most on-track clips. My suggestion for the future; roof cam.

David Pozzi
11-14-2004, 12:53 PM
The #75 Can-Am car is a friend of mine from Visailia.
Carl, a rear antiroll bar would have helped the car handle better on a full tank, would have reduced body roll a very small amount.
David

CarlC
11-14-2004, 08:45 PM
Thanks Jon.

I'm diggin' your car too. She's got a lot of power under the hood! The smoke did quit once you were fully on the power down the front straight.

Next time hopefully we can talk them into having us on the track at the same time. That would be great video, especially with the window cam.

Salt Racer
11-15-2004, 07:48 AM
I finally made it home yesterday afternoon. I racked 3350 miles on the odometer of my car. Total gas consumption is way more than I want to know.

First of all...Brian Schein, David, Jon (spanky), and Vince, I'm sorry that I couldn't hook up with you guys. I arrived in Vegas at like 10~11PM and I figured it was a bit late to go out for drinks and what not.

The guys I met...JP, AndrewB, Brian Zales, CarlC, JonB, Mark, and Sean, it was really great meeting you guys. Very special thanks to Brian for letting me stay at his place. Those who took my Riv for a ride, I hope you enjoyed driving it and maybe gave you an idea or two for your own projects. It certainly isn't the best handling car in the world, but for what it is, it handles pretty good.

My best lap time was 1:43.256. It's slow, but if you take the following facts (excuses) into account, my lap time isn't really that bad.

1. My driving ability
2. Weight of the car - 4280 lbs with me in it, with 56.5% over the nose.
3. Cheap narrow street tires - 235s & 245s, with UTQG wear rating of 400
4. Poor susp. setup - ran out of time to make rear sta bar (severe understeer), forgot to bring extra shims for more neg. camber
5. Stock engine w/ choked up driver side exhaust - probably 280hp or so at rear wheels.
6. Never been able to make a clean lap - either due to traffic (running with bunch of other track newbies) or my screw ups here and there.

I was really impressed with Carl's car and his driving ability. Being able to pull that kind of lap time with many off-the-shelf parts takes some serious thinking. Very well thought-out combination!

JonB's car was equally great. If it wasn't for his PS problem, I'm sure he would have been a couple seconds quicker. And the car runs 10s at drag strip. Really cool!

It's a 1300+mile drive to Willow Springs for me, but I'll be back sometime next year with much sticker Yokohamas or Bridgestones, better suspension, some diet, and perhaps more hp.

spanky the wondermuffin
11-15-2004, 08:45 AM
well done,boys.the ps thing stops a lot of gm's the first time out,but the fix is easy(remote res and a cooler)so who's up for a big track weekend in the spring?mid-march at fontana.a couple day nasa event on the road course,then a couple days on the tri-oval with mkm.if you've never driven on a superspeedway take this opportunity.hey fbjon-did i mention that my second car is a 68 bird?that's right,i'm multi-dimensional,i like other cars besides 68 camaros.

JonB69FB
11-15-2004, 10:41 AM
The smoke did quit once you were fully on the power down the front straight.

I got the intake manifold off last night and the oil is definately coming in from the top end of the motor--there's a little lake of oil on top of every closed intake valve. You can see the hole through to the head bolt (where the epoxy was) I was telling you about in this picture:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Interestingly, it doesn't look like that's the source of the oil--I'm thinking at the moment that it's being drawn through the rocker shaft mounting bolt holes (there's one open to every intake port).

Also, I ordered the dry pump setup from Lee Power Steering this morning. Their lead time is over 10 days so it looks like I'll probably miss the Speed Ventures event at California Speedway on Dec. 17th, but I'll see what I can do to make it.

Salt Racer
11-15-2004, 03:01 PM
The results are up.

http://www.speedventures.net/event_results_db.asp?event=11/12/2004+-+SOWS&results=OA&s=lt

parsonsj
11-15-2004, 08:40 PM
Sounds like you all had a great time.

I got to drive the huge yellow Riviera. I even took my wife for a ride. Too bad it wasn't at Willow! Hopefully Brian Z's neighbors will forgive my attempt to turn the neighborhood into a race track. :)

I have to second the thought: the Riv is too cool for words. What other PT car have you ever seen with clamshell headlights?

jp

CarlC
11-15-2004, 09:47 PM
I
Also, I ordered the dry pump setup from Lee Power Steering this morning. Their lead time is over 10 days so it looks like I'll probably miss the Speed Ventures event at California Speedway on Dec. 17th, but I'll see what I can do to make it.

Yeah, right. 10 days my right eye. It took closer to 10 weeks to get mine, but supposedly he was working on a new machining program to mill the unnecessary cast iron from the pump.

Thanks Katz. It was good to meet you as well. 1:43? Kicking azz for your first time and a car as heavy as yours. Backmarkers do make fast lap times challenging. Tires make a huge difference.

Salt Racer
11-16-2004, 07:47 AM
Thanks JP and Carl.

You know, I was kinda worried about my PS pump but I didn't have any problem. I did hear the pump working really hard right before entering the bowl on each lap, but there was no puking or funky smell from the fluid at the end of each session. But School sessions were like 10 minutes shorter than the rest of groups so maybe I just lucked out? I have AGR 12.7:1 box w/ 0.235" T-bar, AGR's late model style pump, and Redline PS fluid.

I'm thinking about selling my current tire/rim combo and do C5 18x9.5s and 275/40R18 KDs all way around now. If I end up doing that, I probably should install PS cooler.

Next time I'll step up to White group. I see a couple of cars in W group that were slower than my banana boat, and it seemed like you guys didn't have any traffic problem. I gotta check and see if there's any inexpensive OT event at PR and PIR so I can improve my driving skills!

Jagarang
11-16-2004, 09:18 AM
That 69 Firebird has 690 HP!

Salt Racer
11-16-2004, 12:16 PM
I just have to thank JonB and his wife again for taking so many pics. I really appreciate the fact that they took a couple of head-on shot of my car on skidpad. It really helps me evaluate body roll angle, camber angle, etc. This gave me a pretty good idea of what else needs to be done to my car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It's pretty obvious I need more neg camber (though wheel camber is not terrible for the body roll angle). I'll probably benefit from a tad higher inflation pressure as well. But what I really need to do is to get rid of 700 lb Nailhead and swap in 450 lb LS1. But that wouldn't happen for quite a while...

Both Carl's and JonB's cars appear to have better camber angle than mine (Carl's car being the best). But both of them will probably benefit from slight increase in static neg. camber.

JonB69FB
11-16-2004, 08:22 PM
Yeah, right. 10 days my right eye. It took closer to 10 weeks to get mine, but supposedly he was working on a new machining program to mill the unnecessary cast iron from the pump.

Oh great that's the last thing I wanted to hear! Not that I'm really expecting anything soon what with Thanksgiving next week and all.

Katz, I agree with Carl, a 1:43 for your first time out is really good. And it looks like I managed to pull out a 1:38 lap, so that's something, I suppose.

On the camber: I only took tire temps once, but they were fairly even across the front tires (within 5 deg spread all the way across). I really need to start taking tire pressures and temperatures consistently (and writing them down) every time I get off the track but I always manage to forget. You're welcome on the pictures--I'm really pleased with how they turned out.

CarlC
11-16-2004, 09:08 PM
The pump problem is also related to engine speed. The higher, and more sustained, the engine/pump RPM the greater the problems. Your bad-boy nailhead does not make a lot of engine speed. If you step up later on to the LS1 it will become a whole different deal.

Yep, I too, along with David's help, have been using the pics to evaluate suspension problems. Mine needs more spring for the track, but it's fine for the steet. Even with the new tires with a much siffer sidewall, there is too much body roll and excessive outside tire wear. The car, in the pics, has over 2* static negative camber. THANKS JON!

A 1:38, with steering and engine problems? That's great. With any luck Lee's will get the pump done sooner. You can still plumb everything since the routing will be the same either way.

JonB69FB
11-16-2004, 11:26 PM
I ordered all the lines/fittings, but some of the fittings and the cooler I'm going to be using are backordered until early December. :hand:

If any of you guys are planning on going to the California Speedway event I'll consider driving up there even if the car isn't done to take pictures/video and offer my tire temperature taking services.

Salt Racer
11-17-2004, 06:51 AM
...Katz, I agree with Carl, a 1:43 for your first time out is really good. And it looks like I managed to pull out a 1:38 lap, so that's something, I suppose.

On the camber: I only took tire temps once, but they were fairly even across the front tires (within 5 deg spread all the way across). I really need to start taking tire pressures and temperatures consistently (and writing them down) every time I get off the track but I always manage to forget. You're welcome on the pictures--I'm really pleased with how they turned out.

Thanks Jon. 1:38 w/ intermittent PS is pretty damn good too. Sorry to hear that your parts were backordered. I know the frustration...

I was told by a BFG tire engineer that typical modern tires generate max. lateral acceleration when they are at -1~2*. Perhaps he was speaking of street radials.

I agree. Keeping track of tire temp/pressure would be invaluable.



The pump problem is also related to engine speed. The higher, and more sustained, the engine/pump RPM the greater the problems. Your bad-boy nailhead does not make a lot of engine speed. If you step up later on to the LS1 it will become a whole different deal.

Yep, I too, along with David's help, have been using the pics to evaluate suspension problems. Mine needs more spring for the track, but it's fine for the steet. Even with the new tires with a much siffer sidewall, there is too much body roll and excessive outside tire wear. The car, in the pics, has over 2* static negative camber...

Good point! I don't have a tach, but I think my Nailhead is done by 4500rpm. It's a shame Buick choked up these motors with tiny valves. 425s have huge 4.313" bore and stroke that is barely longer than Chevy 350. I suppose I can switch to a pump with slightly lower pressure/flow rate and use bigger pulley (along with a cooler, of course) when I do high-revving motor.

I measured body roll angle of my car from the skidpad pic. Roughly 3.6* on CW and 3.3* on CCW. It's a bit more than I want, espacially with non-sticky tires. My car is the same way - current spring rate is good on street, but it needs more roll resistance. I normally take stiff spring/soft sta bar approach, but I'll try the opposite on this car. RC will also be raised from 1.6" to 3.0" when I fit 18x9.5s on. Local bone yard has a bunch of '63-'65 Rivs, so I'll get a pair of good spindles and relocated ball joints for rim clearance and better geometry (kinda like what Kyle Tucker did).

spanky the wondermuffin
11-17-2004, 07:26 AM
there are many sources for the ps pump you need.canton sells the one i use with a nice pulley.a sweet pump is the big name in racing pump.they are everywhere-stock car products,port city,coleman.any of the usual sources.cvproducts makes a special low drag unit that i'd use if i didn't have a sweet.krc is another big name in ps pumps.keep a log with all that data!i log all tire and brake temps along with pressure and any setup changes.katz-i bet you placed near the top broken down by pound of car per inch of tread!i'll come up to p.i.r.i have nothing on my calender for first half of may,all of june,and september-november.i'm making a few changes now towards my goal of 185mph this year.mostly more roll cage bracing and bars and i'm thinking belly pan.and a hans!

Salt Racer
11-17-2004, 08:05 AM
....katz-i bet you placed near the top broken down by pound of car per inch of tread!i'll come up to p.i.r.i have nothing on my calender for first half of may,all of june,and september-november.i'm making a few changes now towards my goal of 185mph this year.mostly more roll cage bracing and bars and i'm thinking belly pan.and a hans!

Yeah, you're probably right. My tires aren't much wider than OE tires on WRX, S2000, etc.

I thought I'd have to go through VERY expensive driving school before I do lapping at PR and PIR. If not, please let me know. I'll be there when you come out. Otherwise, I'll probably see you at Thunderhill next year.

Now speaking of open road racing, I'll probably see you in NV sometime within next couple of years. The main purpose of my trip down to CA was to help my friend build his '46 Hudson P/U. The builder (a great engine builder/developer, but not so much of a fabricator) had a tough time locating cab and bed on AME chassis, so I went down to his shop and built body mounts. Pic is attached below. It has AME C5 IFS modified for high speed runs (more caster, longer FVSA) and 4-link with wishbone located as low as possible. Initially we'll run 632ci Chevy, but he also has a Rodeck TT SBC for an alternative motor. We'll try to go 200+ at B'ville Speed Week next year, dial in suspension and then hit the Nevada highway!

JonB69FB
11-17-2004, 09:04 AM
I was told by a BFG tire engineer that typical modern tires generate max. lateral acceleration when they are at -1~2*. Perhaps he was speaking of street radials.

I agree. Keeping track of tire temp/pressure would be invaluable.

Kumho actually recommends over 2deg negative camber for the tires I'm running. The most I can get on the driver's side at the current ride height (without swapping a-arm studs) is the 1.75 that I ran at this event.

It's entirely possible that as I went faster on track the car rolled over more and the tire temps changed. There's just so much going on that I'm usually lucky if I can remember where the turns are on-track and keep enough gas in the car, much less remember to make my final lap fast enough to keep temperature in the tires, get off track quickly, and get the temps taken/written down.

Salt Racer
11-17-2004, 09:36 AM
...There's just so much going on that I'm usually lucky if I can remember where the turns are on-track and keep enough gas in the car, much less remember to make my final lap fast enough to keep temperature in the tires, get off track quickly, and get the temps taken/written down.

I can imagine that, with hp your car has. Maybe it's a good thing my car is slow. Gives me more time to think/correct line between corners :hmm:

CarlC
11-17-2004, 04:50 PM
Jon,

Next time, bring the tire temp gauge and we'll do some tuning together.

Spanky,

We're talking P-pump, not the TC style pump.

JonB69FB
11-17-2004, 11:04 PM
Will do Carl.

I found the source of the oil smoke tonight. The #5 intake runner has a pit that's apparently open to the bottom of the head. I built a little fixture out of a plate of aluminum and an air adapter so I could pressurize the intake ports, and sure enough, cylinder #5 (the only cylinder that showed oil on the plug) was leaking. Pulled the valley pan off and I could feel the air leaking out on the underside of the head.

I haven't decided how I'm going to fix it yet. I'll pull the head off tomorrow and see if I can get to the back side of the porosity to plug it with some epoxy or something.

JonB69FB
11-18-2004, 12:41 AM
In case anyone is interested here's a picture of the pit that was causing all the blue smoke:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Not much is it?

Oh, and here's a picture of my quick-n-dirty pressurizing fixture. It's ugly, but it works:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Jagarang
11-18-2004, 05:43 AM
I had no idea that such a tiny thing could be such a pain in the assl! The car sounded great during the videos.
What kind of motor are you using John? 690 HP is sick!

JonB69FB
11-18-2004, 08:28 AM
It's a 486cid Pontiac motor. The only stock parts are the block (which is a 1965 421 block) and the front cover. The car was in a High Performance Pontiac shootout back in May and they did a complete rundown of the combination--here's a link to the article:

http://www.firebirdofdoom.com/hpp_big.jpg

spanky the wondermuffin
11-18-2004, 08:32 AM
i'm pretty sure p.i.r. has club racing.there must be a track closer to you (katz) than t'hill.if you add up track time,tires,fuel(both there and to-and-from)and wear and tear i wonder if lessons (using a school's equipment) aren't a better deal.hope to see you,and anyone else,in nevada.i'm sniffing around on the salt flat sites a bit now.i'm thinking of try to get 200mph.only 37 mph to go.i think the last 40 mph may be a bit harder to do than the first 40.i'll see how i do next year.to make a 200 mph attempt in open road racing i'll need to be able to average 170mph for the length of the course before being given permission.after proving i can average 150,then160.what is the qualifing procces like on the salt?do they just let a guy no one knows show up and run 200 mph?

Steve Chryssos
11-18-2004, 08:36 AM
This is just the best thread ever. Thanks Jon for supplying the pix. It's good to see the attitude of each car under cornering loads. Glad you had a good time. I can't wait to move out west.

Salt Racer
11-18-2004, 10:03 AM
i'm pretty sure p.i.r. has club racing.there must be a track closer to you (katz) than t'hill.if you add up track time,tires,fuel(both there and to-and-from)and wear and tear i wonder if lessons (using a school's equipment) aren't a better deal.hope to see you,and anyone else,in nevada.i'm sniffing around on the salt flat sites a bit now.i'm thinking of try to get 200mph.only 37 mph to go.i think the last 40 mph may be a bit harder to do than the first 40.i'll see how i do next year.to make a 200 mph attempt in open road racing i'll need to be able to average 170mph for the length of the course before being given permission.after proving i can average 150,then160.what is the qualifing procces like on the salt?do they just let a guy no one knows show up and run 200 mph?

Jon,
PR would be the closest track to me, but the concrete walls scare me. PIR is the next closest, and there's Spokane Raceways about 200 miles from my place. Spokane has a lot of room to spin out, and they'll let you run if you've been through regitimate Hi-perf driving school (which I just did) so I'll try there next spring for sure. I suppose I could look for club racing at PIR too. I mentioned Thunderhill b/c I want to try the track anyway, and I liked SV event a lot. Very relaxed yet well organized, and they made me feel really welcomed despite my goofy choice of vehicle. Besides, I gotta go South at least once a year for Carl's Jr.'s Six-dollar burger (Guacamole Bacon kind - Mmmmmm :drool: ) I've never seen Carl's Jr. north of Salem.

As far as B'ville is concerned, There are three major events each year - Speed Week in mid-August, World of Speed in Sept, and World Finals in Oct. Speed Week runs from Sat. to the following Friday, but the event is getting really big lately. You won't be able to make a lot of passes until Wednesday or so and lodging would be tough unless you want to camp out, but it'll give you lots of time to tinker with your setup. The other two events are 3~4-day deal, and there's a greater chance of cancellation due to desert weather in Wendover.

Tech is pretty strict, but I don't think your car will have a problem. Go to www.scta-bni.org and get SCTA rule book. It's about $7. USFRA (the event organizer for World of Speed) also goes by with SCTA tech rules. I'll probably be one of SCTA tech inspecters for next year's Speed Week, so if you show up at Speed Week, look for an asian guy with a tattoo of raven on left shoulder. That would be me.

Once your car passes tech, you have to make a couple of licensing passes on the short course. I think it goes like 125~149mph for D, 150~174mph for C, 175~199mph for B, 200~249mph for A, and 250+mph for AA. Once you get B license, you can run 200mph. Your car must be capable of hitting 175mph at 2.25 miles to be able to run on the long course. Bring some skinny tires for the salt - it'll make the car more stable. IIRC, they'll let you run a little over 200mph w/ drag race front runners on all four corners.

You can also run at El Mirage. SCTA runs a bunch of events through out the year at the dry lake. Course is shorter than B'ville and the car gets really dusty, but it maybe a little closer to you.

Check out the forum at www.landracing.com sometime. A couple of SCTA officials hang out there, so they'll be able to answer tech questions, etc.

CarlC
11-19-2004, 10:39 AM
Jon, it's not the mountain that wears you down, it the grain of sand in your shoe.

Is there enough access to the back of the port to allow welding? Even if you had to do it from the inside I doubt you would lose much power. If not some epoxy should do the trick but it's got to be clean. I hate doing jobs twice.

Katz, did you try In-and-Out while you were here? There's nothing quite like a #1 Animal Style.

Steve, get out here. We need more guys for track days!

Salt Racer
11-19-2004, 11:38 AM
I'm not much of an engine guy so I didn't make any suggestion, but I'd weld the pore in if possible. Epoxy works, but like Carl said, the metal must be super clean for it to stick.

I've been to In-and-Out a couple of times, but didn't see Animal style on menu. Do I just tell them I want my burger Animal style? Gotta try that next time.

Last but certainly not the least...I totally agree - we need more guys for track days! If my 4300-lb Riviera with 235s/245s can handle a road course, your Camaro or Chevelle with 245s/275s certainly can!! Doesn't matter if you pull good lap time or not, as long as you enjoy doing it.

That's what PT is all about - modifying your car and using its full potential, and street isn't the place to do it. IMO, guys who show up at tracks in mildly modded cars are more PT'ing than people who have aftermarket subframes and 315s just for bragging right and cruise around on street. They may have PT cars, but they ain't real PT'ers in my book.

CarlC
11-19-2004, 12:08 PM
If this isn't cool, I don't know what is:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I agree with Katz. Let's go to the track.

Salt Racer
11-19-2004, 12:43 PM
Boy, that dork in the pic really makes my car stand out! :rotfl:

Thanks for the pic, Carl. It's a keeper.

CarlC
11-19-2004, 01:31 PM
Katz,

If you want the high-res version shoot me an email.

Yep, just ask for Animal Style. You get grilled onions, pickles, and mustard grilled beef. I'm friggin' hungry now!

http://www.in-n-out.com/

Salt Racer
11-19-2004, 01:41 PM
Carl,
E-mail sent. Thanks for the pic. In return, I'll buy you an Animal style burger at In-n-Out when I see you next time (probably at track event). Check your wheel bearing so you can stay until the end! ;) just messing with ya!

JonB69FB
11-19-2004, 02:36 PM
Jon, it's not the mountain that wears you down, it the grain of sand in your shoe.

Tell me about it...

Actually though, my initial impression was incorrect. It's actually leaking through a thin spot in the port wall near a headbolt hole (which was my initial initial impression at the track, you may recall). Except it's not the port with the gaping hole (#1), it's the port with the tiny pinhole! (#5). Here's why:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

So my easy-peasy solution is to just buy a different set of head gaskets that don't have a slot for the head bolt. I've been wanting to try out a set of Cometic MLS gaskets anyway, so I ordered a pair today. They're expensive (almost $200 w/shipping & tax) but reusable! And there's much less chance of opening a can of worms than say, sleeving the head bolt holes.

This whole car is getting more and more peppered by this type of really stupid issue as it gets farther and farther from stock parts. There are more and more parts that require custom modification to work--mainly little things like the fact that I have to cut my own intake gaskets, or that I had to modify the oil pan to clear the front main cap and steering centerlink, but it really reinforces how much the components of a car like this interact with each other.

I sometimes long for something that's a little more forgiving, both in the "keeping it running" and the "easy to drive" sense of things. But it's hard to argue with the sheer brutality of this car, if you're in to that kind of thing. I'd probably get bored tracking a Miata or S2000 (even if I was going much quicker).

At any rate I should have this problem all taken care of by the end of next week. Now I just need my PS pump, reservoir, and some of the -10 fittings that are backordered. Surprisingly, the cooler came in so I'll be making brackets to mount it this weekend.

JonB69FB
11-19-2004, 11:03 PM
Katz, would you be interested in attending an event at Laguna Seca? It's always been a dream of mine to drive there.

The Speed Ventures guys will probably have an event up there sometime in early '05. It's expensive though (the track is really expensive for them to rent).

Matt
11-20-2004, 02:28 AM
Thats awesome, and what a wide array of cars too. Looks like fun.

spanky the wondermuffin
11-20-2004, 08:11 AM
laguna has strict sound limits.i doubt many of us would pass.check out buttonwillow.fantastic track,great facilities.lotsa run off room(ask me how i know that.....)rant on ,katz man.the faster you go the more complex the car gets.eventually a trailer becomes very useful.i'm towing now so i can run open pipes,lexan windscreen and a button clutch.i realized that 90% of the miles i put on my car was to and from races,towing(with the a/c on) just makes more sense.of course that also means two vehicles to mantain.

JonB69FB
11-20-2004, 10:53 AM
My car is almost certainly quiet enough to pass (in fact, a 'seca-friendly exhaust system was one of the goals when I put it together most recently). Katz should be too and I don't remember Carl's car being super loud.

I started towing my car to races around the point it hit low-12's. For me it came down to a couple of things:

1. There's a LOT more room in the truck/trailer to bringing tools, spare parts, etc... With the rollbar I can't even take my slicks to the track in the car as only one of them fits in the trunk.

2. I'm lazy and I hate changing tires/removing crap from the car at the track. I'd rather get there, roll it off the trailer, and go.

Back when the car ran 13.7's @ 104mph, ran on pump gas, and didn't have some sort of failure almost every time I raced it, I actually drove it cross country (from Cleveland to San Diego). Trip took 3 days and used $800 in gas!

But anyway Buttonwillow sounds like a fun track too. I really like the Speed Ventures guys and they run an event there that I'd like to make as well. I don't think there are ANY tracks in California that I wouldn't want to run on, but so far my list of "to do" tracks is structured something like this (in order of desire):

1. Laguna Seca
2. Big track at Willow Springs
3. Sears Point
4. Buttonwillow
5. Thunderhill

Salt Racer
11-20-2004, 11:30 AM
JonB,
Nice choice on Cometic gasket. I've heard a lot of good things about them (one of KB Piston's tech/engineer type guys races on salt, and he's been using Cometic head gasket exclusively).

Simplicity is good, but when you start out with inferior platforms (like our cars compared to an S2K, for example), some major reconstructions and custom fab would become inevitable. Somtimes it's PITA, but it's part of fun, isn't it? There's no better feeling than when everything finally works out together and the car works just as you intended. It just takes a little more time to get there. Like you said, you'll never get this much satisfaction if you drove a more common vehicle. When I showed up at SOWS in my Riv, people were looking at me like "what the fu(k is this guy thinking?" But by the end of the day, my car gained some respect from a few people. It was pretty cool.

Laguna Seca, I'd like to try it sometime but probably not in my Riv. Good sheetmetal for these cars are getting scarce day by day. Perhaps when my '69 Nova race car gets done (who knows when), or when I get some more track experience under my belt. For now, I'd stick with low-speed tracks (due to lack of hp) with lots of open areas.


Jon Spanky,
Hmmm, not sure which of my statements your comment were referring to, but yes, I agree. Once you start going really fast, trailering makes much more sense. My Riv will never get there (way too many hurdles to overcome), but I know I will have to get a trailer and a tow rig for my future race cars.

Road trip is one of my biggest passions, and I really don't mind driving long distance in my vintage cars and there's AAA if my car breaks down. I guess I'm a little different, but that's nothing new :)

CarlC
11-20-2004, 01:59 PM
Jon,

On the big track at Willow your car would be super fast. With the amount of horsepower you have on tap it will be a wild ride!

I agree with Spanky, Buttonwillow is a ton of fun. I'll be at the next SV event there.

The exhaust on mine is a kitty cat. Laguna will be no problem.

spanky the wondermuffin
11-21-2004, 09:16 AM
being a convertible i can fit 4 race wheel/tires in the 'rear seat',and i've driven to many tracks over the last few years,ran it all day,and drove home-sometimes a 1000 miles each way.but i want to go faster.and since i have a crew cab i can take the wife and kids with me now.i want to mention again a great event for spring.march 12-13 nasa event at california speedway road course,followed by 14-15th "the high roller 100",put on by mkm racing(the pony express people).2 days of lapping on the tri-oval,75-90 laps,150-180 miles.race sessions are 25 laps plus warm up.qualifications and practice the first day.driving on a superspeedway is very intense.those tracks look big on tv,but are tiny like an interstate on ramp when you get out there.www.openroadracing.com skinny tires fore and aft on the salt?great,i really need a 4th set of wheels/tires.perhaps if i put a old bent rim under my pillow the tire fairy will come.

Salt Racer
11-22-2004, 06:37 AM
...skinny tires fore and aft on the salt?great,i really need a 4th set of wheels/tires.perhaps if i put a old bent rim under my pillow the tire fairy will come.

It's a recommendation. VR & ZR rated tires are approved up to 200. Some guys in production type late models (Mustang, Viper, Corvette, etc) run wide tires. I know for sure that the said Viper was doing well over 200 a couple of years ago, and a white SVT Cobra set a record at 203-ish running on wide tires last August. Not sure if they were using street radials (could have been dry or rain slicks).


Now just to add another perspective of how well Carl did...
I was at a book store yesterday, browsing through car mags, playboy, etc. There was a special edition of Road & Track, and they had an article of track-testing slightly modified 350Z, 911, and a Chrysler (forgot what it was) at SOWS. The fastest out of three was the 350Z, with 1:36-ish with a pro driver behind the wheel, and the other two cars were in 1:38-ish with the same driver. 350Z was running on relatively wide KDs.

CarlC
11-25-2004, 03:16 PM
Katz,

I've tried twice to send the pic but the email keeps getting sent back. Funny thing, it takes 3-4 days before the error message shows up.

Try sending me another email but in the body of the message include your email address. Maybe that will work.

Later.

David Pozzi
11-25-2004, 09:18 PM
Laguna isn't all that much a high speed track, and is pretty safe if you drive with a little caution. There ARE cement barriers all around the track but if you leave a little room on the exit of the corners, (late apex) you'll have no problems. They have open track events and have very little crashes but a bad one CAN happen...
Laguna has a very nice rhythm, a lot different from Buttonwillow, there is time to get set up for each corner and improving your time is more about being precise on corner entry and apex points.

There are two track events coming up late December at Laguna Seca.

I"ve driven Laguna, Sears Pt, Willow sp, Riverside.