G-body Spohn rear sway bar on SCandC.com

[Gbodyolds]

anyone try the Spohn rear swaybar like on the SCandC site ? looks similar to the H&R rear bar, looks nice and I like that its not attached to the lower arms, I'd like to know how well it would work out on a vehicle setup for handling.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Marcus SC&C]

That bar is a great setup...*for drag racing*. The rate is WAY too high for a car intended to go around corners. However, we have a ProTouring version in the works with a rate intended to compliment a 1 5/16" solid or 36mm hollow front bar. It should be a big help to folks running stiff Moog 5662 front springs in their G body too. Stay tuned. ;) Mark SC&C

[Gbodyolds]

I thought maybe this would work, I know you told me about the swaybar you have in the works earlier this year any idea on when it might be available ? also any ideas on when the PHB 3 link setup will be done ?

[Samckitt]

Hey Marcus, when do you think this road racing sway bar will be available? Does it mount like factory, or like the one pictured above? I have the 36mm front bar & 750 lb TRW S-10 springs. I assume these are similar to the Moog one.

Thanks

[Marcus SC&C]

Hi Scot,sorry for the pokey reply. It`ll be the same configuration as the one shown above. It`s the configuration GM should have used in the first place IMO. The stock G and A rear bars have a decent rate until you bolt them to the long lower arms,then the rate drops like a stone and they become relatively ineffective for their dia. I don`t have a time frame on it but it`s not a drawing board thing,the dies are being worked on now. Mark SC&C

[Samckitt]

Not a problem on the timing. I had forgot all about it. But now I am thinking I want one when they come out. Any idea on a price?

[Gbodyolds]

Ill be getting one when they come available, considering the quality of everything else I have gotten form Marcus I wouldn't mind being one of the first to try this one out

[SicMonte]

god i love SC&C..they keep coming out with awesome stuff!!!!! when i get my $$ saved up...watch out mark...im gonna come running!!!!

plus...i might be up there on sunday to get my other parts..you gonna be around??

[Gbodyolds]

Hey scot got any pics of the Vette rear disc swap? do you have a functional emergency brake ? what cables did you use ? how much work was the swap overall ? did it require shock relocation

[Samckitt]

Gbodyolds,
I have the Baer brackets & shock relocation brackets. So yes it required relocating the shocks. But, I think if someone was making their own caliper brackets, you could mount them on the front side of the axle & not need to relocate the shocks. I don't have the emergency brakes hooked up yet. I need to get my @$$ in gear again & work on having some caliper mounting brackets made. You want to use F body calipers & Vette rotors. I was told to use 94-96 Impala SS E brake cables. I have them, but haven't hooked them up yet.

Scot

[nowukno]

Hey check this out, Im still going to wait for Marcus's stuff to come out though.This bar can be used on the street too..
http://www.spottsperformance.com/suspension

[Samckitt]

$500 for a sway bar kit is kindof crazy in my opinion.

[nowukno]

$500 for a sway bar kit is kindof crazy in my opinion.
LOL its not kinda crazy its hella crazy!!!!!!

[GBodyGMachine]

I have always wondered about the rear sway bar.

DID I HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT A 3-LINK. I would buy that in a second.
Jeff

[nowukno]

three link from whom??

[GBodyGMachine]

This 3-link



I thought maybe this would work, I know you told me about the swaybar you have in the works earlier this year any idea on when it might be available ? also any ideas on when the PHB 3 link setup will be done ?

[nowukno]

oh that three link I remember now!!

[nowukno]

I for get the name of the company by they sold a GNX complete rear kit but it was $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ but it looked real nice I did a google search on 3 link rear suspensions..

[GBodyGMachine]

Oh, kirban?

Jeff

[GBodyGMachine]

https://secure.mysuperpageshosting.com/kirbanperformance.com/index_turboregal.htm

Click on GNX Suspension.

[nowukno]

LOL that would be it,Why dont you guys jump on that??

[Gbodyolds]

Hey check this out, Im still going to wait for Marcus's stuff to come out though.This bar can be used on the street too..
http://www.spottsperformance.com/suspension

thats the H&R swaybar the pics are right from their site and the information is word for word from the site.

[Gbodyolds]

I have always wondered about the rear sway bar.

DID I HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT A 3-LINK. I would buy that in a second.
Jeff

There was some talk about Marcus working on something a while back, hes a busy man I'm sure if hes working on it it will come out eventuially.

[Gbodyolds]

LOL that would be it,Why dont you guys jump on that??

From what I have herd while it may be an improvment over a stock setup, it isnt all that spectacular of a design, something about the design of the torque arm if i remember right.

[GBodyGMachine]

I could see alot of power being a problem for that setup

[Marcus SC&C]

That rear bar from Paul Spotts is the same overall design. Paul`s about 45mins. from us,nice guy. Note the emphasis on drag racing again though. The rate of that bar is only slightly less than the solid Spohn drag bar. Okay to drive on the street on a drag car with big n little and 90/10s because you can`t go around corners fast with it anyway. Still too much rate for a car that corners though (unless you have a 2" dia. front bar to go with it). :rolleyes:
The 3 link isn`t too much of a secret,we`ve been testing and tweaking it in our G-5 Cutlass for the last 3 years. We`re making some real progress in getting it production ready now though. The secrets are in the details. :) Mark SC&C

[Norm Peterson]

From what I have herd while it may be an improvment over a stock setup, it isnt all that spectacular of a design, something about the design of the torque arm if i remember right.Being pin connected to the chassis and bolted to the pumpkin to prevent pinion angle rotation all by itself is its biggest disadvantage for anything other than the dragstrip. Bushing compliance is necessary for this arrangement to work without substantial binding, and the bolts through the chassis side bushings for it and the two lowers should be collinear (or closely so) for the same reason.

It's a rather unique setup that falls somewhere between the third link in a 3-link and a torque arm without really being either. Actually, "traction arm" may be the best description.


Norm

[Marcus SC&C]

Quick update,I just got confirmation today that the dies are being made for the road race type rear swaybars. That takes about 6-8 weeks so you can expect it to be available right around the new year. :twothumbs Mark SC&C

[Gbodyolds]

Quick update,I just got confirmation today that the dies are being made for the road race type rear swaybars. That takes about 6-8 weeks so you can expect it to be available right around the new year. :twothumbs Mark SC&C

can we get a ballpark idea on what the price will be??

[nowukno]

can we get a ballpark idea on what the price will be??
Yeah!! What he said

[Marcus SC&C]

Yep,same as the Pro-Series drag bar $395. :) Mark SC&C

[nowukno]

Yep,same as the Pro-Series drag bar $395. :) Mark SC&C

Works for me take my order now buddy!!!!

[SicMonte]

geez...something else to buy from you all!!!!

[white79bu]

Put me on the list. Just let me know when. Andy

[Gbodyolds]

Ill take one !!! let us know when you start taking orders...


Anyone wanna buy a lightly used ATR swaybar ???

[GBodyGMachine]

Mark,
First, sorry I have not called you yet.
Second, could I get the quick explaination why this bar is better, i know it mounts to the rear spring pockets off the frame. What if I dont Have those, I run coilovers.
Jeff

[Gbodyolds]

I just seen the new Hotchkis swaybar on the opening page of PT.com, looks interesting and has a slightly different mounting design than most swaybars like it. I called Hotchkis for some details the guy said the only info he has on it is 1 1/4" hollow and the G body version wont be out till next year, not a bad price either but looks like it might hang a little low considering the way the endlinks hang down off the trailing arms this problem would probably be even worse if someone is using LCA relocation brackets. Ill still be waiting for Marcus, I was never impressed with anything I ever bought from Hotchkis I always felt like I was buying a name and not a well thought out and designed part.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/10/ExtRearSwayABody-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/10/2282R_lg-1.jpg

[Gbodyolds]

woops double post!

[Marcus SC&C]

The end links actually bolt to the crossmember where the upper arms mount so it won`t matter if you have coilovers. There are 2 main reasons why it`s better than a factory style bar. The first is that the rate of a 7/8" dia. factory bar when sitting on the workbench is about 247lbs/in. but when you bolt in onto the 19.5" long lower control arms the rate drops to a really lame 47lbs/in due to all the extra leverage! That`s why there are companies making HUGE rear bars for G bodys. Fact is it takes a bar of well over 1.30" dia. to get the same rate the factory rear bar is supposed to be. But that leads to a problem with the 2nd reason,binding. When the rear axle articulates the arms need to be able to twist to maintain free movement. That`s why hard bushings and solid box tubing arms often cause problems. Now what happens when you bolt a swaybar to the lower arms? In order to twist now they have to bend the bar. The thicker the bar the more resistant to bending and the more the lower arms remain fixed. In extreme cases I`ve seen several bars that broke where they bolt on the arms,it takes a LOT of binding forces to do that! Makes for an exciting ride when they break too! :drive2: The ProTouring bar is just designed the way it`s supposed to be,like any modern performance car. We worked closely with Spohn to tailor it to the G chassis and it`s needs. BTW A body will be along soon also. :twothumbs
Just saw the post about the Hotchkis rear bar. If you read the rest of this post you`ll already see where they dropped the ball and why it has to be so huge...did I say that out loud? Mark SC&C

[Gary Wells]

https://secure.mysuperpageshosting.com/kirbanperformance.com/index_turboregal.htm
Click on GNX Suspension.
---------------------------
Disclaimers first here. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Dennis Kirban who sells that GNX suspension package, his son who is one of the installers in the upper East Coast region, Jack Cotton's whose facility has installed several of the GNX suspensions, or Mr. Richard Clark, who I believe currently builds the set-up, and who, I believe might have designed it originally, but I have had opportunity to ride in several turbo Buicks with the GNX rear suspension, both real GNX's & a couple of non-GNX turbo Buicks converted over, and I think that what we have today is superior in price, function, & weight savings. You need to rent the welding jig for the installation, have all of the recommended suspension up-dates, (GNX bushings, replacing of the missing body bushings, (#'s 3 & 4 lower as a minimum), Stiff springs, good rear lower control arms like GW-spherical & Del-a-Lum, & a custom exhaust as the standard turbo Buick exhaust won't work, and as much as ATR made and sold one, ATR being history. Definitely for the purist only. It is an impressive ride, though. installation probably not for the backyard mechanic. HTH. Been there, but didn't do that.

[Gary Wells]

Hey check this out, Im still going to wait for Marcus's stuff to come out though.This bar can be used on the street too..
http://www.spottsperformance.com/suspension
-----------------------
Some of the display pictures are identical in every detail to the pictures originally used by HRPartsnStuff in their hard copy catalogue, and the bar kit looks identical. You would think that people would either give credit where credit is due, or have some originality when copying items. Maybe they buy direct from HR, repackage, or change some small item in the HR kit & resell under their own name. For shame. What is it they say:"imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ??? That bar hangs down way too far from the pumpkin for my taste. Too close to the ground, even on a stoch height car. I hope that Spohn did some reengineering work on that aspect of the kit. that is the main reason that I did not purchase a HR Parts & Stuff kit when they first came out.

[Marcus SC&C]

The Spohn bar has a little less "dip" in the middle than the others pictured. I`ll be doing the testing on the production prototype myself. If I have my way it`ll hang down less than the 1" bar that`s on the car now. Mark SC&C

[nowukno]

The Spohn bar has a little less "dip" in the middle than the others pictured. I`ll be doing the testing on the production prototype myself. If I have my way it`ll hang down less than the 1" bar that`s on the car now. Mark SC&C

Hey Marcus welcome back,Ill be giving you a call tommorow!!!!

[Marcus SC&C]

Thanks. Ya should have come out for the SEMA show,it was great! There`s always next year. :) Mark SC&C

[LS6 Tommy]

anyone try the Spohn rear swaybar like on the SCandC site ? looks similar to the H&R rear bar, looks nice and I like that its not attached to the lower arms, I'd like to know how well it would work out on a vehicle setup for handling.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I know there were lots of other replies to this, but here's my $.02.

That's not an anti-sway bar. It's an anti-roll bar. It's a drag race only unit. The car would handle like crud with that in it.

Tommy

[Marcus SC&C]

Yep,basically said that in the 2nd post of this thread. That`s why I designed the soon to be released ProTouring version. :) Mark SC&C

[nowukno]

Yep,basically said that in the 2nd post of this thread. That`s why I designed the soon to be released ProTouring version. :) Mark SC&C
Hey Marcus whats your opinion on the Herb Adams VSE front sway bar with the tierod style end links? Any for G-BODS.....??

[Gbodyolds]

Hey Marcus whats your opinion on the Herb Adams VSE front sway bar with the tierod style end links? Any for G-BODS.....??

I was thinking about tie rod or the adjustible heim joint style end links but what are the advantages to these over stock style ?

I have shortened a few sets of end links to make the swaybar sit right on lowered cars but other than making it easier to get the bar to sit right whats the advantage?

[Marcus SC&C]

Is Herb still selling products through VSE? I was under the impression he was working as an engineer for AA&M and that VSE was only doing Cobra kit cars. If not it`s a good thing for 2nd Gen F body owners as VSE had(s) some great parts for them. At any rate the end links aren`t a bad idea. Probably every modern car uses them in one variation or another. They should eliminate some binding and make the bars react in a quicker more linear manner (at least in theory). I don`t know of anyone making them specifically for G bodys though. Mark SC&C

[nowukno]

Is Herb still selling products through VSE? I was under the impression he was working as an engineer for AA&M and that VSE was only doing Cobra kit cars. If not it`s a good thing for 2nd Gen F body owners as VSE had(s) some great parts for them. At any rate the end links aren`t a bad idea. Probably every modern car uses them in one variation or another. They should eliminate some binding and make the bars react in a quicker more linear manner (at least in theory). I don`t know of anyone making them specifically for G bodys though. Mark SC&C

I talked to Matt Adams Yesterday (Herbs son) they do have the front bars for the G body I have him sending me a catalog.Matt is running VSE they are in carmel Ca. here is there # 831-659-7660 almost as nice as Marcus to talk to on the phone.. The front tie rod style sway bar is $320 plus Tax in Ca, sucks,and everything marcus said about the front bar is true,the tie rod style end links make the bar react faster and they eliminate the endlink bushings.The size for G's is 1 5/16 and is sold as a kit..

[Chevy350]

I have this kit collecting dust in the attic, it was removed from a '79 Malibu wagon. The swaybars are fully adjustable, and have the adjustable heim joint /uniballs on them. Does anyone of you know who made these? There are no names anywhere, just some numbers on the small stickers...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/11/gbodyswaybars-1.jpg
Too bad I live a quarter turn around the world from you guys, it would be easy to sell otherwise. I'm saving them for a possible future project.

(Mark SC&C: I need another pair of extended LBJs from you, the "big" '71-'76 Impala style/moog K6141. I ordered two from you for a '75 Nova Feb'06)

[GBodyGMachine]

I have this kit collecting dust in the attic, it was removed from a '79 Malibu wagon. The swaybars are fully adjustable, and have the adjustable heim joint /uniballs on them. Does anyone of you know who made these? There are no names anywhere, just some numbers on the small stickers...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/11/gbodyswaybars-1.jpg
Too bad I live a quarter turn around the world from you guys, it would be easy to sell otherwise. I'm saving them for a possible future project.

(Mark SC&C: I need another pair of extended LBJs from you, the "big" '71-'76 Impala style/moog K6141. I ordered two from you for a '75 Nova Feb'06)

How much? DIBS

[Chevy350]

I'm sorry, they're not for sale - besides, shipping heavy and bulky things like that across the Atlantic probably drives up the price too much anyway.

I was just hoping someone could ID them for me, as I have no clue what they are...

[Gbodyolds]

nice looking bar

[442stu]

Those red bars look like an old rancho set up for g-bodies. I installed their complete kit including springs and shocks in a 79 monte about 20 years ago. Rancho actually made an attempt at car stuff way back then...

442stu

[Chevy350]

Hmmm! Actually, the car also had red powdercoated front lowering springs, probably from the same place... No rears though, maybe because it was a wagon?

[nowukno]

Hey Marcus,how is my rear swaybar coming along??:drool:

[Marcus SC&C]

AFAIK we`re still on schedule. We`re just waiting on the forging dies to be completed,everything else is ready. Hopefully next month. :) Mark SC&C

[GBodyGMachine]

AFAIK we`re still on schedule. We`re just waiting on the forging dies to be completed,everything else is ready. Hopefully next month. :) Mark SC&C
I would like to offer up my regal as a test bed for the prototype model. I will give you my company (Livernois Motorsports) Address and everything.

JEff

[Gbodyolds]

AFAIK we`re still on schedule. We`re just waiting on the forging dies to be completed,everything else is ready. Hopefully next month. :) Mark SC&C

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/12/24805bpthesimpsonsmrburnsexcel-1.jpg

now how do I get my name on the list to buy one of these bad boys before their sold out?

[nowukno]

Marcus you the man!!

[Gbodyolds]

Marcus,
How well will this swaybar work with the 3link setup when it comes available? will it be compatible with the 3 link at all ?

[Marcus SC&C]

The prototype is on our 3 link car now. They were designed together. All you have to do to get on the pre order list (no deposit or pre pay) is give us a call. Mark SC&C

[Gary Wells]

Marcus:
Anything new and / or exciting on this subject. I would definitely like to see pictures of the assembly mounted on a G body Buick prior to making a decision about ordering. My primary concern is how well the set-up works and how low it hangs to the ground.

[Gbodyolds]

I spoke with Marcus last month about it and got on the pre-order list. I was told that he has figured out a way to modify the design so it is more adjustible and the new revision will be superior to the original. He said it shouldnt be too much longer than originally anticipated but will be well worth the wait.

[Gary Wells]

I spoke with Marcus last month about it and got on the pre-order list. I was told that he has figured out a way to modify the design so it is more adjustible and the new revision will be superior to the original. He said it shouldnt be too much longer than originally anticipated but will be well worth the wait.
---------------------------
Thanks, Gbodyolds, appreciate the info, I am primarily concerned with the lack of clearance on not Marcus's design, but everybody else's. I have neard nothing but raves about the handling characteristics, even on HRPartsNStuff's set-up. I personally do not care for the way that it hangs down away from the rear end though. It is obvious that both of the set-ups mentioned above are the same design, and maybe even the Spohn drag race set-up appears to be a copy of the same design.

[Marcus SC&C]

Yeah we did a redesign on them. Our prototype was fully adj. and it was really handy for tuning the car. I wanted to carry that over to the production bars but we ran into a few snags at first involving the configuration we wanted and the forging/shaping process. We should have that licked now though. The production pieces should be 3 way adj. :twothumbs Hang in there guys it`s comin. :) Mark SC&C

[nowukno]

Cool,!!!!!:yum:

[olds87]

Hay Marcus, how it going with the rear sway bar?

[Gbodyolds]

go back and read posts from the 5th on.

[SS 454]

Hallo anybody heard something new about the timeframe ? I can`t wait to see it , I`m so excited....

[olds87]

Hay Mark,

What is going on with rear sway bar and the 3-link? I'm excited to!

[Marcus SC&C]

We`re still waiting on the darn forging dies. They`re a couple weeks behind but they`re coming (cue Tom Petty "Waiting is The Hardest Part"). Mark SC&C

[Gary Wells]

Anything new on a timeline for this?

[Marcus SC&C]

We were told 4 more weeks...3 weeks ago. I`m not holding my breath but we should be getting real close! Once we have the bars we still have to check fit and function for the last time and have them powder coated but that shouldn`t take more than a couple weeks. At least the ball will finally be in our court! :) To be continued.... Mark SC&C

[McssGmachine]

Anything new on the 3 link?

[olds87]

Hay Marcus,

Any word on the 3 link rear?

[Marcus SC&C]

The 3 link/phb project hasn`t been forgotten but it is on the back burner. Due to the difficulty of making a well engineered 3 link fit into a G body without a lot of welding and fabrication we`re taking a look at some different approaches and stages to the G bodys rear suspension issues. The Fox body Mustang guys (who share a similar converging 4 link rear suspension) have been making some impressive gains with a frame mounted watts linkage designed specifically to coexist with the 4 link. We have a bolt on package in the works for G bodys. We hope to get testing in this spring and have it ready by summer but you know how that goes! :hammer: A big part of the testing fill be compatibility with the ProTouring rear bar and Alston Varishock rear coilover conversion. Ideally we`ll get all three to work and play well together so that they can be added in stages. With the watts linkage in place half of the 3 link conversion would be done already. Oops,did I say that out loud? Mark SC&C

[GBodyGMachine]

Oops,did I say that out loud? Mark SC&C

No, You Typed It Silly.

Jeff

PS, love my control arms

[SS 454]

anything new about the new A-body swaybar ......?

[Marcus SC&C]

Not yet...sigh....the foundry that forges the bars themselves is really giving us the ol weenie. At this rate we`ll have the new watts link with adj. frame mounted swaybar on the market before the regular PT rear swaybar is done. Mark SC&C

[Gbodyolds]

PT sway bar ?

[Samckitt]

How about a different supplier?

[Marcus SC&C]

Once the watts links and frame mounted bars for G and A bodys are done we`re going to get back on it. With a little luck we can do a tubular splined end adj. road race bar with a clearance bend for the diff and use the same bracketry we have sitting on the shelf waiting for the one piece forged bar. It`ll cost a little more but it should be about half the weight and much cooler too.
:smoke: Mark SC&C

[SS 454]

Hallo any news on the rear PT-bar ?

[Marcus SC&C]

We`re going to take another shot at it once the racing season is over. We may go to a road race style splined end bar bent to clear the diff but we`ll have to wait until the off season to have a chance of having them made. If all else fails we`ll be doing a road race style one (but frame mounted) for the upcoming watts link package. We hope to see G body watts packages done before the new year and `68-`72 A body soon after that. Mark SC&C

[olds87]

Can you post a little preview shot of the Watts Link or send it to me?

:razz:

[SS 454]

Hallo we have a new year and a new swaybar ?...........

[RobG]

I'm interested in this set up as well Marcus. If anything I'd like to know if there's any welding involved in the installation. I'm doing a frame off resto-mod Buford and this would help with the powdercoating schedule.

Thanks :twothumbs

[CruizinKev]

old thread bump

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

anyone tried that spohn protouring swaybar yet?

[6spdmalibu]

Guessing the 3 link never got completed?

[T-CHRGD]

old thread bump

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

anyone tried that spohn protouring swaybar yet?

More recent thread about it.
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50554&highlight=spohn
Needed a little messaging with the GN 8.5" rear, but Very happy with the results.