Mustang II vs. Mopar torsion bars?

[lantzn]

I've purchased the two Huntimer books on GM and Ford pro-touring. I'm more familar with Mopars because I've restored a number of them in the 80s. I'm currently in the planning stages of my first pro-touring type project. In another post I stated my initial plans. One of my biggest areas of interest is on suspension and bracing. This 68 Barracuda coupe is going to be my daily driver. I want performance and comfort.

1. Would there be a huge difference in adding one of the Alterkation front ends that take advantage of the Mustang II suspension compared to going with a beefed up torsion bar setup for the 360/300hp engine?
This would be the stock slant 6 k-member, 225 to 360 motor mount conversion kit, 340 rated torsion bars, adjustable UCA, reinforced LCA (Firmfeel), high performance shocks, 74 a-body spindle, Wilwood disc brake kit, polyurethane busingings, heavy duty parts whereever and fast ratio steering box.
What about the difference between a power or fast ratio manual steering setup? Would manual steering on a daily driver be a pain?

2. What about bracing? I want to take full advantage of the interior for myself and passengers. I can't imagine a roll cage would allow me this. What extra supporting would you perform throughout the car. The car is stripped to a shell and so this is the first priority while having the little bit of rust repair being done.

[go-fish]

Go to Reilly Motorsports website and post a thread to Bill explaining what you want to achieve and he will shoot you a straight answer. He won't try to sell you an Alter-k, he will explain everything and let you decide. He is really good about putting alot of content in his replies.
I think the biggest advantages are getting proper suspension geometry and weight savings with Alter-k-tion. Also rack and pinion hands down is better than any steering box and a company called Uni-Steer makes a kit to put r and p on a stock K-frame.

[lantzn]

I agree with you on the advantages of the ALTK. I would like to see if he can upgrade his r&p offering with this one.
http://www.speeddirect.com/index.aspx?nodeID=75

Uni-Steer doesn't have an Mopar a-body offering, only B and E.

I think I found one answer to the bracing question here.
http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/category/index.cfm?cid=88&lvl=3

I also like the suspension kits but very spendy. They may design a-body stuff if they get enough interest. I'm sure as more and more kits are sold the prices should come down. It sounds like a fairly new company.

[go-fish]

IMO, Bill Reilly was the only way to go for me. His Alter-k is better than Magnum Force because it has heavy duty mounts for the coilovers, Mag Force uses the stock inner fender shock mounting point. Magnum Force users such as Sickfish, have problems in that area. Also, I don't want to use a motor plate and have the engine mounted to the frame rigidly. As for the XV, I give them props for putting NASA level engineering into Mopar front ends, they have the most superior suspension for any one vehicle manufacturer, and it's Mopar! However, customers are expected to have a NASA sized budget to afford thier kits.
For the Steeroids r and p, Bill has the Flaming River units in stock and I believe they use MII mounts. He probably won't go out of his way to order you Steeroids. More than likely he'll give you the Flaming River part # and just have you cross it to a Steeroids part # and order it seperately, omitting it the r and p from you're Alter-k-tion order. But, rest assured Flaming River does set the industry standard for steering components and are probably just as good or better than Steeroids.
I plan on using XV's lower radiator support and innerfender to firewall braces. As for the sub-frame connectors, try US Car Tool. I believe they have the same braces that a precission cut to fit the contour of the floor panels, essentialy connecting the front and rear making it a "full frame". They are bound to be cheaper than XV.

[High Plains Mopars]

Reading into your original post that your willing to spend some decent money on it all and it still needs to be streetable and comfortable, correct?

AlterK will net you a significant weight reduction with lots of availability for brake options, not to mention the increased precision of a rack and pinion. As a result,handling will also be great and Bill will help you spec out spring rates and shocks to match you usage. A very decent package that is, for hte resutls acheived, reasonably priced.

If your working with a tight budget, the torsion bar suspension is actually a very good design and your car can be made to handle very well for around a grand. New leaf springs, T bars, sway bars, along with a firm feel box and quick ration idler/pitman arms are a HUGE improvment over the stock mush under an A body cuda.

For bracing, sub frame braces or factory style torque boxes will firm things up significantly. If you've got the whole car apart during this upgade process, stitch welding all the unibody seams and K frame seams helps out as well as welding the circumfrence of the front and rear torsion bar mounts. Bracing the steering box mount is mandatory to reduce flex during agressive cornering. Boxing the front of the radiator support helps out too. If you don't mind the tubing challenges for exhaust routing, X bracing under the car is also a very good idea.

[lantzn]

After a couple of weeks of research and your comments, I'm leaning towards the Reilly front end. The weight reduction is substantial. I have had some Mopar restoration purist tell me that this coil over conversions have cause problems with stress on the body and breakage. Do you guys know what this is about? Is it just the Magnum Force stuff mentioned above or are there other problems with other companies? Being purists they may be exaggerating.

Now what about rear suspension? What's the advantage of this 4 link system stuff compared to the HD leaf springs available? Is anyone making a bolt in type kit for Mopar. I'm surprised Reilly isn't into offering them.

[jvike]

Bill Reilly are working on a rear suspension for A-body. E and B-body would be the next step..

[go-fish]

The "purists" are purists because they think there is sanctity in the stock system. It isn't as good as they think, it was great in it's day but has been eclipsed. They are correct about the stress caused by Magnum Force because thier shocks bolt onto the stock inner fender location. Reilly's, however, has a shock tower integrated onto the k-frame itself, the force is exerted on the heavy duty upper shock mount not the thin steel inner fenders. There is the no further use for the stock upper shock mount holes. Take a look at the rms website and you can see how the system looks assembled.
I bleed Mopars, still I can recognize advancements in technology.
Reilly can get you a AirRide Tecnologies 4-bar rear suspension with air spring omitted and Carrera or QA1 coilovers added for a good price. If you want to go with air suspension, just order the 4-bar kit from AirRide Technologies with the Shockwave air springs. Bill Reilly can also get you shockwaves for the Alter-k-tion, they bolt right in. The ART 4-bar comes for B and E. Anything A body, I would wait on Bill to come up with somethin. There are some issues he is trying to work around like the fuel tank. I will probably do my wife's 67 Dart GT after my 'cuda, it's a good thing it will be awhile, he should have the issues worked out by then. It will get the rear treatment and some of Bill's strut rods and UCA's, can't justify the cost of a Alter-K on a mild 340 wife car.

[lantzn]

Thanks guys, I was just told by AirRide that they just picked up a 63 Dart to start working on a rear suspension for the a-body. I thought it was kind of an early one to be working with but I think 63 up is the same isn't it? Good to hear Reilly's working on something as well.

About the gas tank in the a-body. The car is going to have a number of custom things done to it that hopefully won't take to much away from the look of the originality. One things I'm trying to accomplish is to "smooth" out the exterior of the car. I'm going to shave the door handles and remove the gas tank door. I want to route the gas tank door like it is on my 68 Coronet convertible. It's in the rear behind the license plate. I love that, no gas down the paint job. I was going to see if I could use a part of a trunk floor from a 68 Coronet and weld it to the a-body, removing the tire hole. Then I should be able to use a Coronet gas tank and filler tube setup. If the tank is to big I may have to have one made. I like the Coronet tank, it's flat and tapers up towards the rear.

[schattin]

If your looking for a really good A-body front and rear suspension make a call to Highland Daytona Racing @ 800-825-1359 ask for Rick.
They have a website however the suspension has not made it to the site yet.
www.hdrcoupe.com

I currently have my 68 Dart down there as the R&D car.

[schattin]

65/66 Mustang gas tanks fit 67 and up a body quite will . HDR is also coming out with an alternative for the factory gas tank

[rjsjea]

Reilly doesnt use Flaming River racks anymore.....he uses AGR.

Some of the early alterK's have 60,000 miles + on them and have had no issues. Mopar purists think it's fun to fit headers with torsion bars and stock style K frames:screwy:

Reilly's Abody 4 link kit has been out and has been installed on many cars for some time now. It fits with the stock gas tank. The alterK is the best out there for an Abody, good customer service and a straight forward guy.

[lantzn]

Hey Guys I just saw Reilley's business on Chop Cut Rebuild. He was working on the suspension for the Barracuda project on the series this season. Very nice episode.

[go-fish]

Good to hear. Bill is a stand up guy and best of all, he doesn't try to cram products down your throat or take out huge ads in the mags.

He does advertise some but his parts really sell themselves.

[Bjkadron]

About frame bracing... If you dont mind spending the $20 to get it then I would HIGHLY! recommend the chassis book from Mopar performance. It focuses more on the stock type suspensions but its got a big section on chassis and shows where to beef up the stock uni-body.

Benjamin

[go-fish]

What is the ISBN # for that book? I am very interested in getting a copy for myself.

[Bjkadron]

I can't find the ISBN#... Its published by Mopar Performance Parts.
The official title is "Chassis 9th edition" subtitle "Speed Secrets & Performance Modifications for Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge RWD Racing Cars". I got mine through a Mopar Performance dealer(a Chrysler dealer near here). The part Number is "P5007160".
I got it for like $22 with tax which was cheaper then I could find it used and its HUGE(almost 450 pages) and awesome! But does focus on drag racing more than I would like... Oh well.. You can't win them all! HAHA! Hope this helps!

Benjamin Kadron

[go-fish]

Awesome, thanks Ben.

[Bjkadron]

No problem! Glad I could finally help somebody else instead of you all helping me! LOL!