BMW wheels on a 1st Gen?

[SS69Camaro383]

ive heard of this from one other person, but do BMW wheels fit on a first gen camaro? does anyone know this for sure or have any pictures of them?:hmm:

[olds87]

If you do a search on here, there is a car that have them on. I don't remember how far back the prost is.

[CliffS]

BMW wheels seem to fit a 5x4.75 bolt pattern. Martin71rs on this board has the right measurement/details. I believe he tried BMW wheels on his Camaro.

[TonyL]

Have a look at this (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/search.php?searchid=310624)

But short answer. Yeah. they work. its only a .65 mm variance over 5 lugs. having a shop make an adapter that fits over the GM hub "stub" that fits inside the bigger hole in the center of the bwm wheel is highly reccomended.

Hub centric is better than lug centric. you dont want to put hard cornering loads on your lugs alone.

[brabbit50422]

i have a 71 chevelle would they fit on that with the adapters and where is a good place to pick up a set a junkyard?

[TonyL]

yes. they will fit a chevelle.

junkyards? maybe. there are LOTS of people selling "replica" bmw wheels online. Do a google search and be shocked at the low low prices on these wheels.

[mone]

the link you posted doesnt work..BMW has same bolt pattern as small chevys?Like A or G body?

[TonyL]

Try this link or use our search funtion and type in "BMW wheels" (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/search.php?searchid=310746)

I'll break it down further though.

BMW uses 5x120.00 mm bolt patterns.
Classic chevy's use 5x4 3/4 (4.75 inches = 120.65 millimeters)

So a difference of .65 mm (.65 millimeters = 0.0255905512 inches)

So, If your car has a 4 3/4 bolt pattern. BMW (or any 5x120mm bolt pattern) will fit. ON THE STUDS.

meaning the Hub, the part that is designed to hold the weight of your car wont be mating perfectly with the wheel. you need a "ring" to take up the difference, or risk snapping lug nuts and crashing.

[Blown353]

Tony, unless you're looking at a severe impact condition the wheel to hub register is NOT the load carrying path-- all the loads of the wheel/tire assembly are taken care of by the friction in the clamp load between the wheel and the face of the hub. That's why proper torque on the lugs is so important. Too loose and things move around, you start putting a cyclic bending load on the studs as the wheel moves around and *snap* your car is now a tricycle. Even if the wheel was hubcentric this will happen. If the hub was the primary load path then all lugcentric wheels would experience fretting between the interface at the back of the wheel to the face of the hub as the wheel slid around until the lugs/studs failed. That simply isn't the case. Friction is your friend here.

Having the wheels hubcentric only serves to center the wheel onto to the hub prior to tightening the lugs and reduce the chances of mounting the wheel non-concentrically to the hub. The fit of the wheel over the hub will only serve as a load path in extreme impact situation that is sufficient in magnitude to overcome the frictional force between the wheel and the hub (i.e. tagging a curb really hard.)

Back to the BMW wheels... even though the difference in the B.C. is only .026" I wouldn't recommend bolting them up without the proper adapter, especially if the BMW wheels are lugcentric-- as the wheel might not end up being concentric to the hub, it will center itself probably based on the first two lugs that were snugged down. Would the slight misalignment be enough to cause a detectable vibration? Probably.

[SS69Camaro383]

Tony, unless you're looking at a severe impact condition the wheel to hub register is NOT the load carrying path-- all the loads of the wheel/tire assembly are taken care of by the friction in the clamp load between the wheel and the face of the hub. That's why proper torque on the lugs is so important. Too loose and things move around, you start putting a cyclic bending load on the studs as the wheel moves around and *snap* your car is now a tricycle. Even if the wheel was hubcentric this will happen. If the hub was the primary load path then all lugcentric wheels would experience fretting between the interface at the back of the wheel to the face of the hub as the wheel slid around until the lugs/studs failed. That simply isn't the case. Friction is your friend here.

Having the wheels hubcentric only serves to center the wheel onto to the hub prior to tightening the lugs and reduce the chances of mounting the wheel non-concentrically to the hub. The fit of the wheel over the hub will only serve as a load path in extreme impact situation that is sufficient in magnitude to overcome the frictional force between the wheel and the hub (i.e. tagging a curb really hard.)

Back to the BMW wheels... even though the difference in the B.C. is only .026" I wouldn't recommend bolting them up without the proper adapter, especially if the BMW wheels are lugcentric-- as the wheel might not end up being concentric to the hub, it will center itself probably based on the first two lugs that were snugged down. Would the slight misalignment be enough to cause a detectable vibration? Probably.

so basically what i need to do to pull this off would be just to get the proper adapters? that doesnt seem like such a big deal? or is there more to it than that?

[BuddyP]

I too am interested in this for wheels, there was a guy on here with a 1st gen firebird (blue with white stripes) that had BMW crosslaced wheels on his car and everything seemed to bolt up fine.

[nancejd]

Just out of curiosity, what is the machining tolerance for an axle flange or a rim? Looks like the BMW pattern is 25 thousandths smaller than the Chevy pattern. If the chevy axle were small and the BMW wheel was big, do the tolerances potentially stack enough to make this work right? If you are tightening your lug nuts down sequentially in the correct pattern, I would think that would get the wheel centered.

[ProBell]

I tryed to put a set on my car to use for track tires. I have 1/2" studs and you can see the difference in the size of the bolt pattern. I would not run them with out a adapter, would seem to me the bolts would fatigue and snap over time. Or maybe I am just a chicken!! Randy

[wayne70]

hi i have BMW wheels on my chevelle have not encountered any problems.These wheels have been on this car for 2 years now, idid not use adapaters but changed wheel studs to 1/2"

[Jeremy]

I am looking to get a set of BMW wheels (rondell 58's) for my TA and have one question. Do the BMW wheels use standard acorn lug nuts are do I need to look for something else.

I already know that I may have to get creative for a center cap and have some centering rings machined.

Someone please chime in about the lugs.

[wayne70]

the wheels that i used came on a 740 il and use acorn lug nuts. i have a friend with a sign shop and he made a set of stickers that have SS on them for the factory centers.

[Jeremy]

Thanks for the response. If the factory centers will clear my dust cover, I will go with a pontiac arrowhead or bird sticker.

If the factory covers won't fit, there are several pull through caps that are polished AL and round, kind of like the factory snowflake cap. I would then put the pontiac sticker on.

[StuckInBaghdad]

I tried this a few years back on my 67' Camaro while working as a tech at a BMW dealer. BMW uses the hub to center the wheel and it is a very tight tolerance. I could not get them to line up perfect using just the lugs, the car rode like all the wheels were loose. Use the ring adapters for sure.

[SS69Camaro383]

it almost sounds like doing these BMW wheels are more trouble than they are worth. Im sure I could get it done, but still wouldnt feel 100% safe. I think im gonna go with another set of Centerlines. In a 18"/20" combo

[TonyL]

Bear in mind your average BMW replica wheel, brand new, 18x8 is less than 200 bucks.

[Jeremy]

The price and style are why I am looking at replica wheels. Four 17 x 8.5 rondell 58's are going to run me 737 plus shipping. They look as close to a modern snowflake/crosslace as I have found. They remind me a lot of the ones Trev ran on his "bandit".

The BMW factory center cap is 2.95 inches, all but the same as the 4th gen ws6. This will let me use one of the many decals made by autografics. The BS is 5.25 which will fit perfectly and put the face of the rim in nearly the exact spot as the 8 inch snowflakes. They sit in the wheel wells perfectly.

For me, all these benefits are worth the trouble of having to have a centering ring made. I have been running 4th gen wheels for years now and the centering rings would not clear the rotors. I have not noticed them loosening or vibrating, but then I torque them in many steps with no weight on the wheel/tire.

[44too]

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these are 18X8 TSW wheels made for 5/7 series bmw (20mm offset)

as you can see they are obviously set in a little further.

they rub the frame when i turn.

they worked fine on my a body.

i had to run a spacer so they wouldn't hit the frame on the rear of my g body

i got these cheap and just threw em on my car to make it appealing to sell it.

if i was going to keep it though, i'd run a 15mm hubcentric spacer

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Wheel-Spacers-Adapters-BMW-15mm-5x120-Hub-Centric-2-pc_W0QQitemZ290036601635QQihZ019QQcategoryZ42614QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

with longer studs.

[Jeremy]

I got my wheels in today, tires mounted, and everything installed. Using bulge seat lugs, everything went smooth. I will need longer studs in the rear as the studs in the moser axles are a bit short for my tastes.

I need to paint the front hubs a sliver metallic to make them a little less obvious until I can come up with a center cap. I did find that the plastic caps on spray cans pop on real tight. I have a black on one side and a metallic silver on the other to see what color centers will look the best.

I'll try to have pics by the end of the weekend.

[44too]

I did find that the plastic caps on spray cans pop on real tight.

ah the adventures of ingenuity...

[jfman]

What's a good website to shop for BMW wheels ?

[Jeremy]

Ebay has a decent selection, but I got mine from the wheel exchange. There website is pretty good. They sell most things as a package, just make sure you ask for a credit on the lugs as they will not fit.

[jfman]

the wheels that i used came on a 740 il and use acorn lug nuts. i have a friend with a sign shop and he made a set of stickers that have SS on them for the factory centers.

So bimmer wheels.... Do they have conic shaped lug holes like chevy ??

[neki67]

So bimmer wheels.... Do they have conic shaped lug holes like chevy ??

Yes they do.

There's also a fine example in my PT Garage. 17x8.5 front, 17x10 rear.

Ordered some special lug nuts thru Ebay to finish the job (besides the centering rings you need to center the wheel to the hub, but you can find a lot of info on that if you do a little search on this forum).

Cheers,
René

[bretcopsey]

Yes they do.

There's also a fine example in my PT Garage. 17x8.5 front, 17x10 rear.

Ordered some special lug nuts thru Ebay to finish the job (besides the centering rings you need to center the wheel to the hub, but you can find a lot of info on that if you do a little search on this forum).

Cheers,
René

What size tires are you running?

[neki67]

What size tires are you running?

285/40-17 in the rear. I had to do a mini-mini-tub in the rear (shocks are still in the original loc.) to get enough clearance on the inside and a slight trimming of the fenderlip. In additional to all of that', I'm using a second gen. 8-1/2" (limited slip) diff. which is 1" wider than the original rear end. Same could off course be accomplished by using a 1/2" spacer on each side.

What's a mini-mini-tub (you could also refer to it is a micro tub) you ask? You take out the excess material between the rearframerail and the inner fender, persuade the rest of the metal a bit and weld the inner fender (almost) to the rearframerail (you can leave approx. 1/2" of sheetmetal in between).

Since I'm using the notorious 2"dropped spindles (long story) I had to make a 1/2" wheel spacer otherwise the steering knuckles would hit the tires/wheels, so that's why I have "only" 235 in front. When I was still using the original spindles I used the same wheel (w/o spacers) with a 255 w/o (real) problems.

Mind you, the above may not work for all 1st gen's since production quality and specs were not as tight back in the sixties as nowadays.

So you still have to make the nec. measurements and maybe make some 'guesstimates' but, as you, I can be made to work. Then again; we're also still all wearing wooden clogs here in the Netherlands . . . .:rotfl:

Good luck,
René

[barno68]

Just a heads up for those that want to swap to BMW rims- shop carefully as the offsets vary a lot. The 5/7 series wheels will fit with no spacer (range 14-20mm), but the 3 series will need a spacer.

You really should go with longer and larger studs, I went with 1/2". Depending on the style you go with will also determine the type of lug nut you need. They run 60 degree conical I believe, but some are deep set and require a narrow head tuner lug nut.

They are a very easy install, just look into the details.

Brent

[neki67]

Just a heads up for those that want to swap to BMW rims- shop carefully as the offsets vary a lot. The 5/7 series wheels will fit with no spacer (range 14-20mm), but the 3 series will need a spacer.

You really should go with longer and larger studs, I went with 1/2". Depending on the style you go with will also determine the type of lug nut you need. They run 60 degree conical I believe, but some are deep set and require a narrow head tuner lug nut.

They are a very easy install, just look into the details.

Brent

I second the above!

You need the 5/7 series wheels and look into those offsets, like Brent says; check the details.

I also changed everything to longer 1/2" studs, thanks 4 reminding Brent!

René